Big Cypress Designated Trails

[Anoriginal]

One of my friends just returned from the BICY this week. He went in to mow, check camp, etc..

He said the trails are really marked well and there are a ton of new, red markers with "Trail Closed" signs on them all over the place.

[lswjth2]

Matt, I think that the "powers to be" let this happen on purpose to then close the area. About 2 or 3 years ago i had a meeting with the Chief Ranger Ed Clark about forming an ATV volunteer group to help with the back country visitors, trail maintenance, etc and NOTHING ever came of this. On another occasion i approached the park about donating a VHF radio and antenna setup as long as they agreed to monitor a certain channel since you know that cell coverage does not always work and my offer was turned down.

Now they are finally forming the ATV volunteer trail ranger program and the rumor is that these people are all tree huggers filing up the positions for this. I hope that this is truly not the case, if it is, it's just a matter of time before there's some serious trouble out there between the huggers and the traditional community...Rick

[zman03]

rick did you hear anything about the meeting in naples today?

[lswjth2]

Nope, I had to go visit a customer in Ft. Myers. I left there at 2:00 pm. I'm sure it was the same blah,blah, blah. Did you get my email about meeting with the atty?

[Anoriginal]

Rick:

Rumor has it that the militant tree huggers are applying for the volunteer positions like crazy. There are some of "us" that are applying but, the numbers are small. It's definitely going to be an issue that will be interesting to watch unfold.

[Chillinthemost]

One of my friends just returned from the BICY this week. He went in to mow, check camp, etc..

He said the trails are really marked well and there are a ton of new, red markers with "Trail Closed" signs on them all over the place.

 I remember when those signs got posted in the Ocala national forest. .  Now the rules are.....everything is closed unless designated open, the previous rules were open unless marked closed.

[Anoriginal]

One of my friends just returned from the BICY this week. He went in to mow, check camp, etc..

He said the trails are really marked well and there are a ton of new, red markers with "Trail Closed" signs on them all over the place.

 I remember when those signs got posted in the Ocala national forest. .  Now the rules are.....everything is closed unless designated open, the previous rules were open unless marked closed.

Good point. I didn't even think of that but, I can see it eventually going that way in the BICY too. Takes the fun out of things.

[Bleedsblue]

Corbett has new rules and it's basically off limits for any trail riding. Hunters only and if you aren't hunting you are only allowed on the improved road, which is the main road connecting the North and South entrances. No mention of wheel base either so that also makes RUV's off limits, ATV's have been banned from there for some time.

[MATT1969]

I have talked with game and fish about this  several times.I'm out there almost every weekend and and do volunteer work out there sometimes.they said its up to the discretion of the officer if they think your not hunting or not.he said there  not dumb asses .so if you not really a hunter and hunting they said there there issuing citations.no more off roading unless your hunting.no more jeep clubs  or mud trucks or utv's.just buggy's and hunters.(about time)!!!!!!!!!! i know you can still hunt in a jeep ,utv or truck, but if you know Corbett then you know your not getting anywhere unless you can go thru 4 or 5 foot of water.so play time is over out there .thats a good thing because all these wma's are for hunting not off roading and mud bogs.dont get me wrong we have fun on the buggys but the trucks and utv's just tear everything up.

[Bleedsblue]

Do the new Corbett rules define  "hunting"? If I simply buy a hunting license, install a gun rack and dress like Elmer Fudd, can I drive my Jeep and Zook off of Tomato Road?

No but what going out riding solo is no fun. Getting 3-5 people together to trail ride is blast out there and you aren't going to pull that off by just looking like a hunter. As Matt said they aren't stupid.

As for Matt's comments, the buggies tear up just as much property as the trucks and UTVs ever did. I've been trail riding out there for 4 years in my Rhino and have been off trail maybe two times to get around something. I never went out there to "mud" I just like riding around. I've seen plenty of big trucks/buggies tear up off trail trying to make it to their hunting area. I know there are morons that do tear up trails but mostly by tomato grade where for the most part there is hunting, that was the purpose of leaving it open year around for everyone.

We'll now see what the hunters do with it. I've volunteered a handful of times over the last few years for the clean up days, always paid for a year round pass and did my best to support the place but that's over.

[Mudneck]

LOL my 800lb Rhino damaging more than a 5 ton with 88" tires and a blown 950 hp triple turbo with open headers buggy driving a straight line through anything to chase the game down.....Hunters paaaaa'lease.

Im going to miss taking my daughters on trail rides showing them whats left of real florida.

[Anoriginal]

Lets not turn this discussion into something it's not....an ATV verses Hunters issue. That is not, and never has been a problem. The problem has always been the perception the FWC, NPS and local authorities have of the ATV community.

The Holeylands were closed to ATV's because of a limited segment of the ATV community. This segment is comprised of people who absolutely do not care about anything but themselves. Their sheer stupidity caused all of us to lose a great place to ride. Now, its happening in Corbett and will soon happen in the BICY (I'm sure).

Most of the guys I know with buggies have ATVs as well. I have both and love to use them both. The hunters I know with ATVs are just as upset as everyone else at the Holylands closure and will feel the same way about Corbett.

As someone posted before, we all have to remember that these are WMA's we're talking about and not public riding areas. Riding an ATV or buggy has always been secondary to hunting in these areas. You can't force an activity (en mass) onto an area that wasn't set aside for such activity. Nothing requires the State to allow you to ride your ATV in a WMA. They're simply required to provide access to the area for approved use.

Want to know why these areas are being closed to ATVs? Well, for one, you've got the same types of idiots ruining things for us like they did in the Holeylands. Two, do a little search on Youtube for ATV riding in places like Corbett or BICY. I am not sure about Corbett but, in the BICY you'll find several videos of guys on ATVs acting ridiculous and treating the area like a mudbog. I'm not saying this type of activity is confined to the ATV crowd. But, the ATV crowd is an easy target for those in power and, we do nothing to make ourselves look better to them or change their opinions.

[Anoriginal]

There's no debate to be had. There is no hunters verses ATV's nor is there a situation where hunters are refusing to share. The hunters are not the ones making the rules in any of the WMAs or federal land. Again, these are WMAs...not riding areas. Never were contemplated as riding areas.

Actually, thanks to the hunters, we can still ride in the BICY. If it wasn't for the hunters on the ORVAC, ATVs would have been gone a long, long time ago. Blaming hunters for problems brought on by our own community falls on deaf ears. If the enviro-Nazis (that come to EVERY meeting and submit tons of comments to any invitation from the State or Fed when it comes to WMA and Fed land use) had their way, we'd have no place at all to ride.

Take a guess at how many ATV groups and/or advocates have ever shown up at an ORVAC meeting for BICY? The answer is NONE. Take another guess at how many organized ATV groups showed up to the meetings preceeding the Holeylands closure. The answer is NONE. Same thing goes for the ORV limitations meetings for Francis Taylor and Everglades WMA. No ATV groups or advocates showed. How many organized ATV groups submitted comments to the Fed's addition land proposals? Again...NONE.

I've been to these meetings. There's another one next tuesday afternoon in Ochopee. I have yet to hear any of the hunters advocate banning ATVs. Rather, I've seen them fight to keep the BICY open to ATV use. Just about every back country property owner in the BICY that I know uses a buggy and an ATV. We've all fought like crazy to keep the BICY open to ATVs. With no help from the ATV community I might add. So, you're just completely wrong when you try to blame hunters for areas closing to ATV use. That's not the way it's working or has worked.

[MATT1969]

just remember my couple of hundred dollars in license and permits every year (and 40000 of other hunters) to hunt in Florida are what keeps these places open.not you buying a single management are stamp.and the 900 hp buggy ripping up corbett i think you mistaking for l croos.i  have hunted there my whole life and the real pretty gofast buggys dont get dirty to often.

[Mudneck]

just remember my couple of hundred dollars in license and permits every year (and 40000 of other hunters) to hunt in Florida are what keeps these places open.not you buying a single management are stamp.and the 900 hp buggy ripping up Corbett i think you mistaking for l croos.i  have hunted there my whole life and the real pretty gofast buggys dont get dirty to often.

I guess you weren't invited :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQhDaOPk4xs

oooooops I should have followed the Rhino around on the hard pack instead of making the road worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoUmkZRBIA8

Point is we have showed up for cleanup rides in Corbett with Rhino as well as Jeep clubs to make a showing and you didn't see one buggy there except for the ranger. There is always two sides and it sucks as a taxpayer and someone holding a WMA stamp that I cannot go sightseeing nature because I choose not to hunt. If I did take the appropriate hunters safety course and got my license, took my gun and planned on scouting than I could be unfairly targeted for a ticket because i do not fit the "buggy profile" to go hunting. Where does it say that hunters have sole rights, what if I wanted to fish ?

[Mudneck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dd-yy_MIrI

Another point My Rhino wouldn't do near the destruction this buggy is doing. Hell I go around saplings, not run them to the ground!

[MATT1969]

you can fish.just dont go off the grade or trail 6 or the tomota field grade,or the l-8 .you can go there anytime you want.theres nowhere else to fish other than  those areas for the most part  .  those areas and you are alowed there year around.if jeeps and trucks and utv's are so much better than buggys than why are they being banned and not buggys?we the buggy owners are nothing special.so aparantly they do less damage.like i said before just look at holylands .buggys there since in day 1 decads ago.a few years with atv and the place is trashed.so if your point is everybody but the hunters are the good guys than your a dumb ass.all i care about are keeping these places open.and when the day comes they ban buggies in corbett.i will sell mine and keep hunting.but as long as they just stop all the jack bags from tearing it up with trucks.jeeps,utv's for now i think its great.go pay to tear up some privete land somewhare these are hunting areas not l-cross or river ranch.

[Anoriginal]

Clean up rides are great. Everyone rides, has a good time. Some trash gets picked up. But it doesn't do anything to impact policy making.

Point is, the ATV community brought it on themselves and didn't get involved in an effort to save places like Corbett or the Holeylands. Now, all the crying about it in the world won't make a bit of difference. Nor will trying to blame someone else for the results.

As far as supporting ATVers rights, not a problem. Just show me one good, well organized, sell spoken ATV group that is involved and I'll get behind it. Problem is, such a group doesn't exist.

So, back on topic....

The trail marking is continuing in full force in the BICY. The meeting on June 22nd shoudl shed some light on timelines and enforcement as well as the volunteer program.

[Bleedsblue]

you can fish.just dont go off the grade or trail 6 or the tomota field grade,or the l-8 .you can go there anytime you want.theres nowhere else to fish other than  those areas for the most part  .  those areas and you are alowed there year around.if jeeps and trucks and utv's are so much better than buggys than why are they being banned and not buggys?we the buggy owners are nothing special.so aparantly they do less damage.like i said before just look at holylands .buggys there since in day 1 decads ago.a few years with atv and the place is trashed.so if your point is everybody but the hunters are the good guys than your a dumb ass.all i care about are keeping these places open.and when the day comes they ban buggies in corbett.i will sell mine and keep hunting.but as long as they just stop all the jack bags from tearing it up with trucks.jeeps,utv's for now i think its great.go pay to tear up some privete land somewhare these are hunting areas not l-cross or river ranch.

Better go back and read the new rules the only roads you are allowed to drive on are improved roads only and that means you can ride from North gate to South gate and that's it. If you are talking fishing only then yes any of the marked trails are fine.

Actually the only thing that's really been banned is the UTV's. You can take a Jeep, Truck or Buggy anywhere you want if you are hunting. The ATV's I can completely understand why they were banned, they were tearing up the place bad and causing a lot of problems. The UTV's did the least amount of damage out of anything out there but plenty of the hunters I talked to out there were pissed that a UTV could go out but not an ATV. What's really messed up is just about every time out there I ran into at least 1-2 people with UTV's that were hunters.

The problem is you just can't separate the idiots that go mudding (in any vehicle) out there versus trail ride. In the years I rode out there I NEVER came back to the main gate covered in mud.

And no it's not just a hunting area it's a wildlife management area for all to see and experience not just kill stuff.

[MATT1969]

PUBLIC ACCESS AND VEHICLES:
1.
Public access is allowed year round except from August 15 until 8 a.m. on August 27. Hiking on the Florida Trail and use of the Hungryland Boardwalk is allowed year-round.
2.
Vehicles may only be operated on improved roads (Stumpers, Tomato Field, North and South)and trail 6.

this is what the 2011 rule book says.
same as it always has.

also atvs have never bin allowed in corbett. i live 3 blocks from the gates of corbett and i have 3 4x4 atvs in my garage.i would hope they never let them in corbett because of the trouble they cause.i would love to go ride and hunt with my atvs out there .but then the place would get trashed.so my point is i would really like to pull from yard to go ride corbett but so would all the but heads.so i loose out to,but im fine with that if it means this place will stay somewhat nice and quiet.
ONCE AGAIN THESE ARE HUNTING ARES NOT ATV OR MUD PARKS.go ride your atv on a golf course .see what they think and tell them to  give you some land so you can ride there is pleanty of it on a 18 hole course .there are golf courses everywhere.that's what you want hunters to do.just because you think you have the right to go riding out there you cry about it.anyone want to comment on what holylads looked like 10 years ago compared to after it was a atv park?im sure most people that are complaining so much are in there early to mid twenties.they don't know what any of these places looked like before the atv craze happened.just go ride and stop whining like a little btch.if you want to go to corbett. start hunting.if not go to the beach or take up bowling.im sorry your not allowed to go ruin another WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AREA that must suck.
also if you must know. i do own corbett.me and the many thousands of others hunters.the  that state of Florida bought it for us.and we in return as a group support almost all of the funds to maintain and keep it around.we use it for what it was created for.we spend millions and billions of  dollars to enjoy our sport.what do you spend?what do you do to help our wma system?we do everything.you dont do sh!t.oh ya you pick up some trash once a year if you go to the corbet clean up.but you just picking you own trash.iand i bet almost nobody that's bitching has ever helped.

[Mudneck]

Ok buggy boy again what are these guys doing in their buggies? Certainly doesnt look like hunting to me. Let alone was that a mention of a beer cooler on that buggy that got stuck mudding. Hunters,guns, big horrsepower buggies and now BEER coolers....And all I want to do is go trail riding eat a samich and check out nature.


Buggies racing destroying wetlands, yes hunters tread lightly until their foot hits the pedal and haul ass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQhDaOPk4xs

A beer cooler in a WMA? Thats as illegal as an ATV....but its all good on a buggie right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoUmkZRBIA8

No comments for the obvious right?

[MATT1969]

youtube.relly?whats your point?look at all the videos of trucks tearing up corbett.i don't know what to say.its kinda pathetic that your stance on this is youtube.its really funny.OH NO NOT BEER ON A BUGGY. BETTER GOT THE LAW OUT HERE ITS OUT OF CONTROL.LOL
i was right .you are a pud.

[MATT1969]

and your video is not in corbett columbo.lol
your really good at this.

[Anoriginal]

I'd be happy to just be able to follow only the trail of a buggy and have done so at BICY. The path buggies travel is 2-3x wider than any ATV, so not asking for much. You say the tree-huggers are signing up for all the jobs as trail rangers? How about ATVers signing up to harass buggy owners and sing petitions to ban buggies from our WMAs. Is that what you're waiting for? Hunting is seasonal, not year-round. Only hunters who share your attitude toward ATVers are the ATVers' enemies. So, why aren't you wasting your time on a hunting site, instead of an ATV site? Here's a link for you. www.elmerfudd.com

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Nobody made this an ATV verses hunters issue but you. Also, I've yet to see any buggy owners harassing ATV riders or any petitions from buggy owners (or hunters) trying to ban ATVs. Again, if it weren't for the hunters voices, ATV would likely be banned from BICY.

All of your anger and hostility is misdirected. If you don't like hunters and hunting, that's fine. But, they're not the ones making the rules and closing areas to ATv's. I've been to tons of meetings about ORV access in the WMA's and the federal lands. Not once have I ever seen any movement by hunters against ATV riders.

If you want to get angry with someone, get angry at the types of idiots that got us kicked out of the Holeylands. They're the same ones that are used as poster children for ATVs when ATV access is being considered by the State and/or the Fed. It became so difficult to patrol and enforce the rules that, the State determined it was easier to just do away with the ATVs all together. Again, it wasn't hunters. It was the ATV community itself.

Ok buggy boy again what are these guys doing in their buggies? Certainly doesnt look like hunting to me. Let alone was that a mention of a beer cooler on that buggy that got stuck mudding. Hunters,guns, big horrsepower buggies and now BEER coolers....And all I want to do is go trail riding eat a samich and check out nature.


Buggies racing destroying wetlands, yes hunters tread lightly until their foot hits the pedal and haul ass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQhDaOPk4xs

A beer cooler in a WMA? Thats as illegal as an ATV....but its all good on a buggie right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoUmkZRBIA8

No comments for the obvious right?

Yeah, those folks are idiots too. There is no shortage in any group. Question though, because ATVs are not allowed, would you have all ORVs banned? That's like taking your football and going home. The hunters had nothing to do with ATV access in Corbett or, any other place for that matter. If you feel so strongly about this, why haven't you attended all of the ORV planning meetings or submitted comments when you had the opportunity? We are three years into the ORVAC meetings in the Big Cypress. I haven't seen an ATV group show up yet. But, thanks to hunters and buggy owners, ATVs are still allowed in the Big Cypress.

Anyone can do a quick search on Youtube and find videos of people doing stupid things on ATVs, Buggies, Tractors, Skateboards and Roller Skates. All it does is demostrate that there's dummies in any group. Beyond that, there's no point.

Getting bent out of shape and lashing out at hunters and buggy owners because ATVs aren't allowed in WMA's is like getting mad at mullet fishermen for the Gulf oil fiasco. They're mutually exclusive items that have nothing to do with each other. Moreover, its just down right childish. If you don't like the way ATVs are being treated, get involved. Complaining after the fact and pointing out problems with the one group that's kept things open for us thus far is counter productive. Some of you are upset. I get it. But, be upset in an intelligent and useful manner. Maybe then we'll see more places open for us.