Idiots Continue To Ruin It For Us

[Anoriginal]

Well, having been actively involved with the BICY ORV plan for many years, I can tell  you that the only real ORV problem they have revolves around ATV's and side by sides. The other ORV's (buggies) are not a problem.

You're right about the lack of organization issue. We (the ATV community) are the most disorganized ORV group I've ever experienced. In addition, even when we do manage to get somewhat organized, there always exists a very large group within us that tends to ruin any ground we gain.

There's already a very clear and concise set standard for ORV use in the BICY. It's really a no brainer. People forget that the BICY isn't an ORV park in any way, shape or form. It was never intended to be a place to "ride" or to off road. The NPS isn't interested in anyone volunteering to ride around in the BICY under the guise of "volunteering for ORV control". I hate to say it, but I don't blame them. ATV's are nothing but a great big headache in the BICY and for the NPS. And that's coming from someone that uses his ATV in the BICY all the time.

If they banned ATV's tomorrow, (which I am sure they will very shortly) I wouldn't be too upset. I know I'd feel more safe and secure with respect to my private property in the BICY. And again, it kills me to say that.

[AintSkeered]

I've come to know BC via ATV and love it's beauty. I share your concerns over the destruction of such a habitat by ATVs and won't lose any sleep when ATVs are banned. However, when you Google Big Cypress, you'll see a link to your right, which redirects you to conservation groups who actively-oppose any/all OHV use there. The lawsuit is old news, but, their efforts continue. The tree-huggers/Bambi savers show pictures of destruction caused by OHVs(buggies), not ATVs. OHVers and ATVers should be united against those groups and use more peer pressure to make the idiots follow the rules/laws! One way is to alert NPS via cellphone when you witness idiots destroying our parks or creating life/safety issues. If NPS chooses to respond to our calls by banning ATVs(instead of appreciating additional pairs of eyes), at least we didn't just sit and watch it happen. Similar symbiotic relationships have existed between hunters and ATVers for many years at places like River Ranch, ONF and Appalachicola Forest.

[Anoriginal]

I make calls to the NPS all the time when I see people acting improperly, operating ORV's without an ORV sticker or breaking the rules. Unfortunatley, over the past 6 years of making such calls, I've only had to call about ATV's.

The same class of people who ruined the Holeylands are the same ones that are well on their way to getting ATV's banned from the BICY.

[AintSkeered]

No question about the number of ATVers that don't get it. But, as your driving down the designated trails in BC, you'll notice the vast numbers of illegal buggy trails. Four men on one buggy may have less impact on the environment than 4 ATVs(maybe), but, one man driving each Jeep/Samurai in a pack certainly have a greater impact on the environment. In other words, when they ban ATVs, we'll still be driving our Jeeps and Samurais there. I say, raise permit fees to discourage bottom feeders and increase enforcement efforts with the proceeds.

[Anoriginal]

Actually there's no such thing as an illegal trail at this time. However, once we transition to the designated trail system, that will change.

The problem isn't with the environmental impact. The problem is in the class of people you get with one form of ORV verses another. It is just a sad fact that you get a higher concentration of morons on ATV's in the BICY than on any other form of ORV.

I agree that raising the fees would help. However, one of the key problems we're seeing is the sheer number of unpermitted ATV's coming in the BICY. For those types, only catching them and fining them HUGE will cure them.

[Gato]

well looks like that is what needs to be done if they are not patrolling it simply banning atvs is not gonna stop the illegals from riding in. They cry about budget cuts but if they hike the fees they should be able to patrol more offen

[MiamiE]

I own an ATV myself and frequent Turner River, Bear Island, and Stair Steps riding. I can see with confidence there are some serious idiots riding out there. They throw trash everywhere, think its a big mud pit, disrespect others property within the BC, and ride WAY to fast. I cannot wait until I can afford an airboat or buggy and they ban ATV's. Game will become less skittish as well.

[AintSkeered]

Current permit fee is $50 and they only sell 2,000. So, how much patrolling of 720,000-acres can be done with $100,000? I'd imagine that you'd need to double or triple the permit fees to pay for salaries, vehicles and fuel.

[MiamiE]

I was told they didnt sell out their permits for 2009 until September. I think they should do $100 fee per year.

[Anoriginal]

Like I've said all along, I wouldn't complain one bit if they banned ATV's in the BICY. In fact, at this point, I can honestly say it would probably be the best thing that could happen for the future of sustained ORV use in the BICY. And again, that's coming from someone who has ATV's for the main purpose of using them in the BICY.

Buggies are not the problem. For the most part, they use what will be designated trails. The reason is that the trails are usually the safest and most direct route to get somewhere anyway. Also, you find that there's a huge difference (in most cases...there are always exceptions) between the attitude of a person who has a ton of blood, sweat, tears and money in a buggy they built with their own hands verses someone who just had credit good enough get an ATV.

What I mean is this... The buggy crowd is usually in the BICY to hunt. In addition, they've got more time invested in their buggy. Also, it's usually an older crowd that tends to show a lot more respect for the Preserve as well as it's rules and regulations. More importantly, those buggy owners tend to show a HUGE amount of respect for the private property within the BICY. Remember, camps in the BICY (if you can find one) start at around $100k and go up from there.

The ATV group, on the other hand, is different. They're younger, not as interested in hunting, treat the BICY like a riding area and not a preserve, constantly break the rules and regulations and show little to no respect for private property.

Until recently, with the influx of ATV use in the BICY, we didn't have a trash problem in there. You just didn't see it. Now, you see it more and more. I've come across groups of ATV guys parked in an area, none or few of them have the ORV sticker. Most riding double. Well, once they leave, I've gone back to where they were hanging out and picked up all the trash they leave behind. This just doesn't happen down there with the buggy guys. Also, before the influx of ATV use, we never had a problem with trespassing or break ins. Now, we have it all the time. We know it's the ATV group because we catch them on the game cameras around the camps.

I've pulled in to Monroe Station to unload my buggy and had a few truckloads of guys pull in behind me with ATV's. Most of them sport bikes, none of them with stickers. I cross 41, unlock the gate (it's locked with a combo lock) and then locked it behind me, only to have the ATV guys come across the road and yell for me to leave the gate open for them so they can get in. I lock it anyway and head on. Later, those same guys come flying past me on the hard trails, way in excess of the 15 mph speed limit. One only has to look at the berms kicked up on the rock trails to see for themself that the ATV crowd is breaking the speed limit all the time.

What needs to happen (if they don't ban them first) is some serious enforcement of the rules. They're in the process of stepping up patrols and writing tickets. However, once they start seizing a few ATV's for repeat offenders, things may change. Don't forget, when you get in trouble in the BICY, it's a federal issue. They don't play nice with you like the State would in a WMA. The Feds will take your stuff and you'll never get it back. And once they ban them, you won't have to worry about too many illegal riders. Get caught in there with something you're not supposed to have and you'll really be in a heap of trouble as far as fines go.

I've had lengthy conversations with ton of people with the NPS as well as others with a stake in the BICY about the ATV problem. The solution everyone seems to come up with is the same...ban them. It's obvious that no amount of rules or regulations are going to be followed by the ATV community. In fact, things are getting worse every weekend. Everyone is dreading the upcoming "riding season". You know, cool weather and dry conditions in the BICY. Already people are having their camps trespassed and broken into. Riders are getting lost and having to be rescued. Trails are getting torn up, etc.. Meanwhile, I've been to to sites on the web that have pictures posted of people on ATV's picnicking in private camp's front yards like they owned the place with postings talking about "the neat camp they found". Come on!

Like I said, I've got $15k in two bikes that are used primarily for getting in and out of the BICY. In addition, there are several other camp owners I know who have them as well for getting to and from camp. We love them. But, if losing the privilegeto ride ATV's in the BICY means we preserve the privilege to use other forms of ORV's in the BICY for the future, I say ban them.  I am tired of sticking up and fighting for people who are too dumb to care or do anything for themselves. It's the same types that ruined the Holeylands. We all know who they are. I hate them and would like to put my size 14 in their butts dry and sideways personally. But, I fear they'd be too stupid to realize what it was for.

[rubicon500kid]

i hope they band atv's soon in BC if not we will loose one of the most beautiful place's in the world !!!!!


i have gone out to BC since i was 5  and i can tell you there is def a dif. soooooooo manny  idiots  now. just in the past 4-5 years its changed  it sucks when people think a national preserves is a mud pit...  when i go out there i dont use an atv or buggy to go "mudding" i use it to hunt and get me to point a-b(camp,stand ect......) sucks they are ruining it for use

[686RAPTOR]

I would be willing to bet this was a group of beaners from Miami
[/quot

Majority of us beaners dont ride around that area.

[Gato]

to say that the atv crowd is younger and anymore disrespectful is wrong also I have seen plenty of groups were ALL are older middle aged driving with 1 hand with a beer and 1 holding the bars, I agree the issue of the PP but Like someone else said on here it is not the bike it is the driver. If everything was so easy to blame on the younger crowd Lets just add all the road racers lets make the driving age limit to 21 will that help. NO, it is all about catching the perps. in action raise it to $100 or $150 that will keep some out at the same time help with funds to patrol more offen. IMO I have only gone 1 time and do not really know anything out there but I feel for the people with the properties going thru it, But maybe the cameras will help with catching some or at the very least help ID them some how.

[Anoriginal]

As I said in my post, there's exceptions to every rule. However, the problems (regardless of age) all seem to revolve around an ATV.

[Chillinthemost]

Damn Analriginal are you going to start an attack on the NRA next for all those nasty weapons that we are killing each other with?  You sound like such an old fart. You must be going through menopause.
  I'm sure when someone pulls up to your camp and sees you and all your "hunting buddys" laying out in the nude, the only reason they store your waypoints is to steer very clear of your camp in the future.

[Anoriginal]

I know I sound like an old woman bu, I just get pizzed off when 20 percent ruin it for the other 80. And Chillin is usually the first one to get naked at my camp and then chase us all around asking us to rub lotion on his back.

[MiamiE]

I passed by Monroe Station on the way to pick up an ATV and WOW was that lot packed! Lots of buggies out there today!

[Anoriginal]

Thanksgiving weekend has always been a traditional hunting weekend down there. Usually filled with hunters.