IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING!!!! Stalling then no start.

[gearhead400]

Ok a while back I was having an issue with the bike getting hot and running like trash
http://www.atvflorida.com/forum/index.php/topic,35847.0.html
That's the topic. I now have a stock exhaust, correct jets, stock filter and lid, and thanks to Frank, a stock CDI box.

One of the big issues with this was when I was decelerating the bike would cut out completely and wouldn't start back up. I'd drop gears and pop the clutch and it would just sputter until the bike stopped.

My last race in may I had receive the CDI Box from Frank so I put it on before the race. The bike seemed to be running great but I didn't get to run it for long because I had a bad shoulder dislocation.

Since then I haven't been riding much at all because
1. My shoulder is still not in any shape to throw my quad around
2. I have a bent axle that I have yet to fix from the wreck.

But the other day I threw some gas (93 oct, just to confirm that) in it so I could start it up and keep the engine and carb fresh and just to tool around the yard a bit. It took awhile to get the gas through and a while for it to idle nice but it finally did after my right leg felt like it was going to fall off. The bike has always started on the first or second kick btw, but I had no gas in it and it hadn't run for months.

So, it idled pretty high for about five minutes while I turned on my compressor and pumped up my tires a bit. I take off down my road (on a bent axle, commmmfy ride lol) not giving it any more than half throttle through all the gears. It ran great but as soon as I pulled in the clutch and started to slow down, it just shut off. Again, I pop the clutch in 2nd to try and get it to crank back up and I got nothing. My kill switch connection is good, I've checked it twice and it's not the problem. Once I'm stopped, I'd try kicking it over and it sounds like there's no spark, like it's not even trying to start back up. I'd sit for a minute and try again, this time it will sound a little better and sputter once or twice (not a weak lopey idle, just a quick pop) so I sit another minute. Try again it cranks right up and runs perfect. I haul ass down the road and no matter which gear I'm in, as soon as I slow down, the same exact thing happens.

Now I was thinking since I let it sit so long with a high idle that maybe this was still related to heat? Nope! the next day as soon as the beech fired up I took it down the road and you can guess what happened next.

Now the CDI was just changed...what else could it be? I've adjusted the vavles prior to the new CDI and I still had the problem. I also noticed this last time I had a gas leak but I honestly CANT FIND IT!! It's unbelievable this thing is kicking my butt!! I've had much larger issues on cars and trucks and found them within an hour or so!! it's a simple machine for the love of God!! lol

please help turns out my shoulder surgery is going to have me down for what seems like 10 years so I guess getting it running right really isn't a priority, but I don't like having broken toys.   
Is there a website or book that has full wiring schematic for quads? I've thinking it has to be electrical. Maybe it's the seal between the carb and engine? or maybe the carb is bad and is letting in massive amount of air?? though I think that would show up under hard acceleration... I'm so lost.

[svtbolt04]

You could always buy a service manual. The diagram isn't going to be the same with every quad.

The problem seems weird, and going to be hard to diagnose over the internet. But here are some things I would check.

Hairdryer to the ignition coil, checking resistance on a periodic basis

assuming it has a clutch switch, checking the wires making sure none of them are exposed and touching another wire such as a kill switch

making sure all bypass ports are clean of debris on the carburetor. run an e string from a guitar through it (the first from the bottom)

all i can think of right now.

[gearhead400]

Thanks for the help.

Clutch doesn't seem to be the problem. I can't ree it being the carb but who knows at this point. Whatever i do next will appear to fix it and then a week later i'll be stuck in the woods. I could almost put money on that.

i take it no one else has any other ideas? i suppose i should post over on 450rhq to see if anyone has had any similar issues.

thanks again!

[svtbolt04]

Well I might not be Honda certified yet, but I am K-tech certified, so a motor is a motor to me really. If you wanted, you could drop me the quad off in orlando and I could go over it for free. If you let me hold it for a week, I could probably fix it no charge unless it needs parts, then you can cover that.

Just looking to help you out. If you need any references, you could ask Randal. Tell him Fred said hey.

[gearhead400]

Yeah randall and I actually live near each other. I noticed tonight that if I have my fuel on, there is a straight stream coming right out of the carb drain tube. I backed off the drain screw, took it out to make sure it was free of debris and I reinstalled it (it was tight before.) I have no clue what would cause that. I might take you up on that! Where at in orlando do you live? I work from sanford to poinciana to haines city and back to clermont!

[svtbolt04]

I'm by the international air port. I think I have a few ideas what this might be.

[Chevy1500z71]

Yeah randall and I actually live near each other. I noticed tonight that if I have my fuel on, there is a straight stream coming right out of the carb drain tube. I backed off the drain screw, took it out to make sure it was free of debris and I reinstalled it (it was tight before.) I have no clue what would cause that. I might take you up on that! Where at in orlando do you live? I work from sanford to poinciana to haines city and back to clermont!

dirty carb. dirt cought between the float valve and seat will make the bowel over fill and run out the over flow, when you loosen the drain screw, it lowers the float level because you are draining the bowl. alot of times this is all it takes to clear a little dirt from between the float valve, for a little while at least, still need to go through the carb.

[svtbolt04]

I have a feeling the float has a huge roll in this whole thing.

[gearhead400]

It's possible. Honda rejetted the bike once and never said there were any problems, and the bike runs like a champ before it stalls. I just don't know. I've had the carb apart, cleaned, jetted. I've adjusted the valves and I switched back to a stock cdi and I'm still having issues. Who knows if it's even the same problem. Fred my wife is due to have our baby any day now so I can't make a long trip right now but I really really appreciate your offer. Not many people would be willing to give up their free time for someone elses issues, and on top of that, do it for free. So thanks!

[svtbolt04]

Alright, well here is what I think is happening.

The fuel spilling out was what CHEVY said, the float had been stuck. Some things I would do would be making sure the float valve is clean and the rubber tip has not gone in. Then I would make sure the float height was properly set. I am sure someone has an online manual for the 450r that would tell you the float height.

The only problem is that you need a float height measuring tool, or a really steady hand to use a tape measure.

Here is my top quality illustration of what a damaged(used) and good float valve look like.


No problem on the help. Feeling generous and love to make things work how they're supposed to.

Also, Congrats on the child! If you ever wanted, I could run up to where you are and pick up the quad.

Hope this works for ya!

[Chevy1500z71]

eh, you dont need a float measuring tool. i just look at the float and make sure it is level with the flat mounting surface for the bowl. this is how i do it at work and iv never had any issues. basically just make sure the float is level, to low and it may starve the bike of fuel, too high and itl overfill the bowl and overflow. its rare that i see a rubber tip float valve actually go bad, what i always do is take a small piece of iron wool and shove it in the needle seat, grab it with some needle nose and do circles with it, this polishes up the needle seat and cleans any crap out of there. this almost always does the trick because the reason the float valve sticks is because the walls of the needle seat are gummed up or dirty, give them a nice polish and your good to go.

this is what iv done on the last 100 million carbs iv cleaned and it always does the trick.

[gearhead400]

Awesome. Hopefully I'll get this done in the next couple of days. Really appreciate it guys!

[svtbolt04]

Something hit me tonight.. It may be your petcocks diaphram.

[gearhead400]

Well I FINALLY got some free time to work on the quad. I took the carb off, took the bottom cover off and cleaned it out and used compressed air to to get any other buildup out. There was a little build-up in there so that might have been the problem. Anyway, I put it back together, not expecting much, and it runs good...no stalling at all. Took it down the road slow just going through the gears with the engine cold. Then once it was warm I let it rip and it never once gave me an issue. I shut it off, let it sit, and did it again and still no issues. The carb is definitely not jetted right, it runs but i know i'm not getting all the power i can out of that engine. Also if I don't ease on the gas, if I just pop it, it dies. Which when i had it adjusted at honda they said that was normal, but if thats the case, I've had a lot of abnormal carburated engines! Also when I had stuttering issues RIGHT after they told me the bike was ready, they just spun the fine adjustment screw on the bottom all the way out and said that was what it needed, and obviously it's still not adjusted right.

So hopefully it's fixed. Still have a busted axle though. It was like riding a horse topped out with that bent axle lol. 

[Baileygunns]

I posted this in another thread..

http://files.filefront.com/05trx450rSMzip/;13907168;/fileinfo.html%22

It's a link to the Honda servive manual. Free download, I got it from a guy on TRX450R.org.

Pilot jet is from idle to quater throttle, main jet it from quarter to top. So if it won't idle or bogs of start it's the pilot. A bog at half throttle or spuddering at wide open is main jet. If you have to turn the mixture screw on the bottom out more than 4 turns you need to go up. Less then a turn you need to go down.