Proposal to open up 85,862 acres of Big Cypress to ATVs

[D33411]

There was an article in the Palm Beach Post this morning and I think the Sun Sentinal yesterday discussing a proposal to open up  85,862 more acres of Big Cypress for off-road vehicles, hikers, cylists and horses beginning on the western boarder of Broward County.  They are accepting public comments on the issue until September.  The guy who wants it done is  Pedro Ramos the preserve's superintendent.  I think we should flood the National Park Service with letters supporting the proposal because there are a lot of tree hugger's opposing it because it is such a large area.  Dawn

[Palmettobay_recon]

That would be great!!!

[renmus]

contact info in attached article.

http://parkplanning.nps.gov/projectHome.cfm?parkId=352&projectId=11164

[lswjth2]

OK so here's the rest of the story, the "addition lands" as this is called, was open to public with untethered orv access throughout the area. Once this was taken over by the park service they closed it until they could do a GMP(General Management Plan) and has since been closed. All of the proposals are bad because they all include some kind of WILDERNESS DESIGNATION. When congress passed the law that allowed this, they never mentioned WILDERNESS, instead traditional uses were to continue and have not. I will be submitting my comments asking that they have a proposal with no wilderness and ORV activity. Either way please comment on what you believe will be best....Thxs Rick

[MuddFreak77]

OK so here's the rest of the story, the "addition lands" as this is called, was open to public with untethered orv access throughout the area. Once this was taken over by the park service they closed it until they could do a GMP(General Management Plan) and has since been closed. All of the proposals are bad because they all include some kind of WILDERNESS DESIGNATION. When congress passed the law that allowed this, they never mentioned WILDERNESS, instead traditional uses were to continue and have not. I will be submitting my comments asking that they have a proposal with no wilderness and ORV activity. Either way please comment on what you believe will be best....Thxs Rick

Rick you know more about this location than I.  Is this the old Bad Luck area?

[D33411]

Thanks for the link, Renmus!  You are the best!

I hope they plan on making some trails like in Ocala and not like Big Cypress.  We paid for the registration to ride Big Cypress and went only on the day we got the registration.  Unless you had a snorkle bike there wasn't much for you to do.  We were in water up to our knees most of the time.  I would just love to have something like Ocala down here.

[Anoriginal]

There are only a few alternatives being considered for the addition lands, the majority of which are located north of the alley, west of the reservation and east of Bear Island.  Each alternative will include ORV trails however, they will be designated and heavily regulated. Most are slated for some time of improvement and will all carry a 15mph speed limit.

Flooding Pedro Ramos' office with letters, etc. is a complete waste of time and would only make us look like idiots. Pedro has absolutely NOTHING to do with this project. If you want to get involved, follow the link posted above, read the massive GMP proposal and then make a decision on which one of the alternatives you like. If you want to comment, do so AFTER you've read the entire thing.

I've read the whole thing and been involved in the addition lands from the beginning when it was purchased from the Collier Corp. The remaining alternatives are quite different from each other. None of them are going to give the ORV user they type of access you'd expect. Access is going to be limited and incredibly regulated. IT WILL NOT BE IN ANY WAY LIKE OCALA. The trails will all be slow (15mph) and most will be improved. Violations for rule violations will be severe as they will be federal in nature.

If anyone is looking to change the proposal at this stage....you're too late. The time for decision, opinion and influence on the proposed alternatives was years ago. I know Rick posted the info back then but, as usual, nobody paid attention to it. So, we are going to get another ORV management plan crammed down our throat with little to no imput from the ATV community.

It's the same type of thing that happened with Ocala and the Holeylands. People let the ATV community know what was coming but nobody paid attention until it was too late. then, when the hammer was being dropped, everyone started to cry foul.

People should have been involved earlier on this one. The NPS, ACOE and the DOI have already picked their preferred alternative and I am certain that's the one we'll all be stuck with.

[renmus]

There are only a few alternatives being considered for the addition lands, the majority of which are located north of the alley, west of the reservation and east of Bear Island.  Each alternative will include ORV trails however, they will be designated and heavily regulated. Most are slated for some time of improvement and will all carry a 15mph speed limit.

Flooding Pedro Ramos' office with letters, etc. is a complete waste of time and would only make us look like idiots. Pedro has absolutely NOTHING to do with this project. If you want to get involved, follow the link posted above, read the massive GMP proposal and then make a decision on which one of the alternatives you like. If you want to comment, do so AFTER you've read the entire thing.

I've read the whole thing and been involved in the addition lands from the beginning when it was purchased from the Collier Corp. The remaining alternatives are quite different from each other. None of them are going to give the ORV user they type of access you'd expect. Access is going to be limited and incredibly regulated. IT WILL NOT BE IN ANY WAY LIKE OCALA. The trails will all be slow (15mph) and most will be improved. Violations for rule violations will be severe as they will be federal in nature.

If anyone is looking to change the proposal at this stage....you're too late. The time for decision, opinion and influence on the proposed alternatives was years ago. I know Rick posted the info back then but, as usual, nobody paid attention to it. So, we are going to get another ORV management plan crammed down our throat with little to no imput from the ATV community.

It's the same type of thing that happened with Ocala and the Holeylands. People let the ATV community know what was coming but nobody paid attention until it was too late. then, when the hammer was being dropped, everyone started to cry foul.

People should have been involved earlier on this one. The NPS, ACOE and the DOI have already picked their preferred alternative and I am certain that's the one we'll all be stuck with.

Why am I not surprised?  Public input is the last thing they really want, but they can always say they asked for the input to cover the posterior.

[Anoriginal]

In this case (and in the case of the Holeylands) they asked for input all the way through. They held public meetings, made the proposals available years and years ago, sought public comment via publication, internet and in person.

They've done it the right way. We (the ATV crowd) failed yet again to participate in any meaningful manner.

[digginfool]

In this case (and in the case of the Holeylands) they asked for input all the way through. They held public meetings, made the proposals available years and years ago, sought public comment via publication, internet and in person.

They've done it the right way. We (the ATV crowd) failed yet again to participate in any meaningful manner.

While you are entirely correct that the ATV crowd did little in providing their input, those of us that did received little or no response.  I responded to the original plan 2 years ago where there were, if I remember correctly, about 4 or 6 choices.  There were also email links to the individuals involved in collecting responses.  I made my choice on the web site as well as sent every member on the committee an email detailing my thoughts.  I received not one response.  As usual, the choices were made long before we had our 'opportunity' to 'provide our input.'

[lswjth2]

Mudd,it's not. However Collier county is suing SFWMD so stay tuned.......

[Anoriginal]

They never give a response to any comments sent in on any project or matter. It's not designed that way.

However, I can tell you that public comment and input carried a ton on weight on this matter. Thanks to a great deal of work by a handful of people, we are going to at least have some sort of ability to hunt and access the addition lands via ORV. The enviro-Nazis had their contingent in full force from the beginning (NWF, Sierra Club, Defenders of Wildlife, etc.) and wanted all of the area designated "wilderness" with no real means of access or enjoyment.

There's been numerous public meetings on this issue for years now.

[digginfool]

For whatever it's worth, in the course of doing business and otherwise, I routinely send emails to members of government agencies (Federal, State, Municipal and independent agencies such as SFWMD) and even if it is just an automated reply acknowledging receipt of the message, I have always received some sort of response.  Leads me to believe they never really wanted a response unless I shared their view.  Of course, we could beat this back and forth for all eternity and you would still have your opinion and I would still have mine.  But sometimes, looks ain't deceiving. 

[D33411]

Yes, the tree huggers always have their ducks in a row and hire lawyers, write letters, etc.  This is the first I have heard of this and thought it was a new proposal and was just hoping letters would help get the most for the ATVers' rights, but I have only had my ATV for almost 2 years so when it happened if I heard about it I probably didn't pay attention to it and have only been on this site for a several months.

Are there any options that you think are better than the other options and why?  Dawn

[Anoriginal]

The best (and really the only) option at this point is to get a copy of the GMP and read it and then submit your comments. There are definite benefits to some of the proposals over the others.

I can tell you that (having been involved in this process for years now) they definitely read and discuss public comments and the same are absolutely taken into account when making decisions. Don't think for a minute that your comments go unheard or unconsidered.

So, take the time to read through the plan and send in your comments. Granted, the proposals being considered are set in stone. However, you can at least have a say in which one is chosen. Taking the time and effort will always help us. Thanks for doing it!!!!!   

As an aside, I am sitting here at my desk, looking at five 6" binders that are full to bursting with the plans, regulations, proposals and information on the Big Cypress area and how ORV's play into the same. In addition, I've got two banker's boxes full of additional files on the same. What's sad to me is the lack of organized input from the ATV community in any of these files. Other organizations involved or related to ORV use were and are heavily involved throughout.

The NPS and (in the case of places like the Holylands) the State go to great efforts to publicize their plans and the time and place for public comment. For some reason, when it comes to our ATV community, it seems to fall on deaf ears until the very end....and then it's too late.   

[D33411]

Will do!  I also wish ATVers would realize that unless they actually DO something like write letters to everyone who has a vote in matters like this to make their opinions known like the tree huggers do in huge masses, they will continue to just squeeze ATVs out of the picture. 

You can't just sit by and think someone else will do it.  Send an email.  Takes less than a minute.  They figure if you won't take the 30 seconds to express your opinions or wants regarding something you love to do, you won't get your butt of the couch and go and vote against them in an election if they vote the other way on the matter.
Just my 2 cents.  Thanks anoriginal!  Dawn

[Anoriginal]

Will do!  I also wish ATVers would realize that unless they actually DO something like write letters to everyone who has a vote in matters like this to make their opinions known like the tree huggers do in huge masses, they will continue to just squeeze ATVs out of the picture. 

You can't just sit by and think someone else will do it.  Send an email.  Takes less than a minute.  They figure if you won't take the 30 seconds to express your opinions or wants regarding something you love to do, you won't get your butt of the couch and go and vote against them in an election if they vote the other way on the matter.
Just my 2 cents.  Thanks anoriginal!  Dawn

 

[D33411]

Did I drink lunch?  I am seeing double!  haha

[Mars]

I think it will help (trails and wilderness) and I did submit some comments.
There not going to get 7mil for the wilderness only but they will get some $ for trails and wilderness.
In my comments I reminded them if there is only wilderness then there is no need for rangers, maintenance personnel, admin personnel or any of the toys they like so much.

[D33411]

<golf clap>  Very good job.