Corbett

[Rare Earth Rider]

Went to Corbett sat. it was really dry haven't seen it that dry in a long time rode about 35 miles all was good until I found the only wet spot there was going around in the grass and found a hole and with my 700 Ranger XP with 30" ITP mud lights and it was to late the mud had done sucked me up so got the 4000 winch around a pine tree and here we go about three feet and that it was it done this was at 5:00 so me and my bud started walking out three miles to the power line road where we could meet our friend that we had called to get us out also called FWC to let them know that we were going to be in there at nite to get it out so the officer said would come to see if he could help us somehow when our bud got there with the truck we had go a different road to get back because there was a bad hole on the road we had walked 3 miles out on that he may get stuck in so it was 8 miles around back where I was stuck and then it happen my bud with truck that was going to pull me out fell in some buggy ruts and he got stuck 1/4 mile from where I was stuck this was at 9:00 can you believe it it was hard for me to believe  we worked on getting out for about a hour and it was on the frame so had to call the FWC dude back and he came out where we was at and took us back to the front gate went home got got 4 hours sleep went back with another truck next morning hook to my ranger it was so stuck took 5 pulls to yank it out then we pulled out my buds buds truck what a nite one I will remember for a while. 

[Keeter]

You haven't been riding unless you have a story like this.  Great times right there. Glad the helicopter was not called. 

[Anoriginal]

Great story. One to remember for sure.



Also, that was the longest sentence ever................frickin ever.

[TRX450R_Racer]

Great story. One to remember for sure.



Also, that was the longest sentence ever................frickin ever.

No doubt.

[Keeter]

Great story. One to remember for sure.



Also, that was the longest sentence ever................frickin ever.

No doubt.

I thought it was just me.  We should all share our stories like this.  Should be a thread just for the stories. Just saying.

[danfl]

I thought you could not ride ATVs out there? I looked it up on the FWC website and looked at the 2009 management area booklet. Maybe you know something I do not know.

[TRX450R_Racer]

They were on a side X side not an ATV. You are correct ATVs are NOT allowed.

[Mudneck]

Damn Tater Im 10 minutes form there & I got the 12k mounted on the 4 x 4 dually. It may have cost you breakfest @ Sneaky Petes

[Busta Nutt]

aren't vehicles supposed to be operated only on named and numbered roads and trails this time of year?

[Anoriginal]

Great story. One to remember for sure.



Also, that was the longest sentence ever................frickin ever.

No doubt.

I thought it was just me.  We should all share our stories like this.  Should be a thread just for the stories. Just saying.

With all my years in the Everglades, I've got some seriously great stories to tell.

[Rare Earth Rider]

Busta Nutt we were 40' off the trail. Bushwacker I sure needed you that nite got to get your # I would have got you more than breakfast. may go back this weekend but will take more than one side x side this time. and yes we need a story block here anyways still was a good time but painfull later.

[MATT1969]

im glad my tax dollors go for fwc to help out people messing around where there not supposed to be.its turkey season out there right now.when i was out there hunting last year i was off the grade 50 feet under the power lines and got a 100$ ticket.i cant wait till they ban side by sides in corbet(its gonna be real soon)fwc says to many people tearing up and speeding down the trails.there has bin some meetings but there going to make a ruling real soon to not allow them out there,just like they did atvs at holylands.its a hunting area not L,cross.go play somewhere else and let people hunt.

[JackL]

im glad my tax dollors go for fwc to help out people messing around where there not supposed to be.its turkey season out there right now.when i was out there hunting last year i was off the grade 50 feet under the power lines and got a 100$ ticket.i cant wait till they ban side by sides in corbet(its gonna be real soon)fwc says to many people tearing up and speeding down the trails.there has bin some meetings but there going to make a ruling real soon to not allow them out there,just like they did atvs at holylands.its a hunting area not L,cross.go play somewhere else and let people hunt.

I have been hearing the same talk, including banning them from The Holeylands.

[AintSkeered]

Yeah, let's let people only hunt on public lands. Brilliant! After all, hunters don't have enough land to hunt on and hunting season only lasts a few months. And, let's all go post on Hunter.com.

[Anoriginal]

We can all share. People just have to use common sense. Stupidity and a complete lack of respect are what got the Holylands closed to ATV's. And, Jack's right. There's serious talk of taking the next step and banning side by sides as well.

As the ATV community we've got to realize that we've got a large contingent that makes us all look bad. These are the ones trespassing, going off designated trails, speeding and otherwise making fools of themselves by violating the rules of any given location. Granted, we've all seen the rules for some locations and thought they were ridiculous. However, they're the rules nonetheless. So, we all need to follow them. Like it or not. If we choose not to follow the rules, we end up with another situation like the Holylands.

Prime current examples are Corbett and the Big Cypress. When you talk to the people in charge of these locations (FWC in Corbett and NPS in Big Cypress) about the troubles they have, the highest common denominator is an ATV. Currently, in the Big Cypress there's been an extreme influx of ATV riders. As a result, trespass, injuries, speeding, and other rule violations have grown exponentially. People's camps are being broken into. Trash is being dumped along the trails. Vehicles at parking locations are being broken into or vandalized. The trails are beginning to look like a MX track with berms being kisked up by speeding ATVs. People are taking in ATV's illegally with no permits or ORV licenses. None of these problems were prevolent prior to the influx of ATV's.  As a result, it makes perfect sense to close the area to ATV use. Doing so saves a great deal of headache and money for those running the show.

As a hunter, an Avid ATV rider (been doing it since 1974 on a 1970 ATC 90) and Big Cypress property owner, I've got mixed emotions on the whole issue. I love to ride my ATV in and out of my camp. It's 15.5 miles north of Monroe Station on US 41. My ATV is easy to haul down from Manatee County and saves me lots of $$ on diesel and gas. It's really nice when it's just me and I am going for a short weekend. Beats the heck out of hauling a big goose neck trailer with my buggy to the Glades for only a few days. While I am there. I enjoy the ease of operation and the amount of distance I can cover on my ATV. I appreciate the fact that the Big Cypress is open to other people to explore by ATV if they wish and part of me really wants it to stay open forever.

However, my hunter/Big Cypress property owner side is in conflict. Hunting is my passion. I spend an enormous amount of money on hunting every year. Not just in Florida but, all over the nation. It is "what I do". Part of this money spent is on my camp in the Big Cypress. Now, this isn't your typical run of the mill $3,000.00 deed and stake camp at River Ranch. No, this is actually my property with a house on it and three acres that I own outright...forever. I paid a ton of money for it. Other camps are selling for over $150,000.00 right now and some for over $1 million.  So, to say I've got a lot of time and money invested in it is an understatment.

As a result, you can imagine just how upsetting it is to experience people treating your camp as a "destination" they've set on their GPS for a trip into the Big Cypress. Camps get broken into. Trash gets left behind and the people trespassing on your property are down right rude. They actually think they've "found" your camp and that somehow gives them the right to set up camp or picnic in your front yard. The same thing happened in the Holylands.

At the same time, many (not all) ATV riders have zero respect for hunters during the seasons. We all have to remember that the hunters spend WAYYYYYY more money on their passion than ATV riders, are more organized and much better funded. In fact, were it not for hunters, many places we ride (Corbett and Big Cypress for example) wouldn't be available at all to us. Therefore, when it comes to hunters, most see the ATV community as an enemy.

Most people (including myself) believe its a matter of mentality. Let me explain and start with the caveat that I am not referring to all of us, just an unfortunate growing contingent.

Anyone with half way decent credit can walk into his or her local ATV dealer and with little to no money down, leave with a new ATV within an hour or so. They can throw it on a cheap trailer, hook it to a sub compact car, drive to the Big Cypress and be in the woods the same day. Takes little to no effort, ability or thought.

However, take the ATV out of the picture, you've got a much different person and situation. Either you're traveling in on foot or on buggy. You've either got to buy or build a buggy. Takes money up front or a lot of time and know how to build. Also, you've got a significant amount to invest in a vehicle to tow the buggy with and a trailer to tow the buggy on. Your mentality is quite different than the guy who put no moeny down and went riding. Also, if you're walking in to hunt, you've got a significant amount of time invested with an uncanny will to hunt. The last thing you need is your hunt ruined by and ATV.

This past weekend, spring turkey opened in the Big Cypress. I didn't go because of prior commitments. However, I talked to several that did. Two of them had their hunts ruined by ATV riders. Now, both of these guys are ATV riders themselves. But, they were really mad.

What I am getting at is the need on our part to use our heads. We have no right to ride ATV's on any property. That right simply isn't guaranteed by any legal document any place. All we ever have is permission or, a gift. Act stupid (like the Holylands) and it will be taken away. A little common sense, courtesy and proactive involvment will go a long way toward us having nice places to ride in the future.

[Mudneck]

Its a shame I have a couple Rhinos I take the kids out to Corbett with and a Jeep I use out there. If you simply ride down the trails I cant see how we tear up 1/100 of what a Jeep or Buggy does damage too. I ride with a Jeep club on occasion as well. The Rhino with such a low wheelbase cannot go through a fraction of what the other vehicles go through. And its not like a track where your running over the same ground repeatedly to wear the earth away.

What a shame someone has a wild hair up there ass about side x sides.I see HS kids out there in the big home built pickups tearing it up all the time, 1 doughnut in a rig like that will tear up more than my Rhino would all day. I see allot of Jeep in caravans coming from who knows where and those guys like to "have Fun" read that how you will. So are they next? Than will it go as far as NO REGISTERED vehicles and go back to just home made Buggies? Where does it end?

I guess I'm gonna go buy a straight framed,fully blown Buggy on 88's and go TREAD LIGHTLY in these areas...What a bunch of CRAP!

[AintSkeered]

I agree with the last two posts, but, believe it can and should all be managed and restricted to prevent the lowest common denominators from destroying these environments. For the past several months, the Jeep Club members have been riding Corbett almost every weekend, often in a caravan of more than 20 Jeeps and Samurais. If I take the body off of my 94 Samurai, won't it qualify as a buggy? Cities, states and the feds have no problem finding funding and imposing access fees for beach lifeguards, park rangers, FWC, NPS staff, etc.. P.S. my Samurai(buggy) cost me far less than the price of my ATVs.

[JackL]

You can always count on Matt for an intelligent and thought provoking post.

It is laughable that some of the 'riders' on this site (if you can even call them that) remind me of PETA kooks.

I have come to the conclusion that the old days in South Florida have finally come to an end.

Lets use The Holeylands as an example, twenty years ago you had to dodge mountains of construction debris and could do practically what ever you wanted to out there, but all was good because hunters, fishermen and illegal dumpers  were the only folks who knew or cared about the place. You use to have to bring a handfull of plugs and a freon tank for a full day of riding out there, and not one of them would have considered suing the state if they were injured nor would they have expected a helicopter to come 'rescue' them because they ran out of gas a half a freaking mile from the road.


Fast forward to today, people call a few bags of chips and a beer can in the parking lot 'trashing the place', and the reason we are being kicked out...all while some fawkin yahoo is jumping OVER the main road on a loud two stroke and a bunch of idiots are doing doughnuts in the parking lot before taking 90+mph runs up the levy.

Give me a break, the ruts and other things used to justify the ban were 'plausible excuses' to kick out the aholes.

I think I finally actually agree that only buggy's and boats should be allowed in these areas nowadays, unfortunately we got way too many stupid people around these days.

I guess 'pay to ride' is really the only thing that can work these days. I noticed 110 acres at our beloved 8th ST is up for sale, someone like that guy Paul_S in North Florida should step up.


Done rambling, I think I will go pull out my little aluminum boat and head to the Holeylands for a few memories and hopefully a bass or two.

[JackL]

However, take the ATV out of the picture, you've got a much different person and situation. Either you're traveling in on foot or on buggy. You've either got to buy or build a buggy. Takes money up front or a lot of time and know how to build. Also, you've got a significant amount to invest in a vehicle to tow the buggy with and a trailer to tow the buggy on. Your mentality is quite different than the guy who put no moeny down and went riding. Also, if you're walking in to hunt, you've got a significant amount of time invested with an uncanny will to hunt. The last thing you need is your hunt ruined by and ATV.

You forgot to mention the fun of replacing a trans in a foot of muck.... 

[Anoriginal]

All good posts. And Jack, your insight and understanding is especially appreciated.

There's a couple of things to consider though. First, it's not a tread lightly issue as much as it's an "exposure" issue. Everyone expects and knows that the buggies are going to creat ruts, etc. But, historically, buggy drivers have a tendency to follow the same path over and over. Most of the miles of designated trails we're currently working on in the Big Cypress are established buggy trails that have always been used. The reason? Those trails are the most effective, safest and quickest routes.

Second, (and I hate to say this...but it is unfortunately so true) you've got a much much higher concentration of jerks and problems with the ATV community than the hunting community or any other community that uses any of these areas we're talking about. We all know it's not any of us that are posting. For the most part, its probably not any (or many) member(s) of this site. Rather, its that same group that we used to see at the Holylands. Like Jack said, the 90mph donut spinning, levy jumping jackazzes and the morons that think that, just because they stumbled upon a camp, they've suddenly "discovered" something, thereby giving them the right to make it a future destination for trespassing.

Third, all of these other communities (hunters, hikers, etc.) are much more organized and devoted to not only their sport but, each other as well. And, whatsmore, they show it in the form of money backing their desires. Ever tried to get a group of ATV guys behind something? It's a joke.

As an example, look at the rally Dreth tried to put on a few years back. An enormous amount of planning and work went into it. In the end, everyone started complaining about cost and location followed by infighting amoungst ourselves. So, the rally was a great big fat zero and we all looked like idiots. When someone's spoken up in the past and been televised for us, it's always someone with the speaking ability of a four year old who hasn't the intelligence or knowledge to field the hard questions asked of our sport. Again, we look like idiots.

By comparison, I am a member of several hunting organizations. In fact, I am the president of the area fish and game association and have been a board member for over 12 years. We are over 3500 members strong, all of whom donate quite a bit of money to our cause. In addition, we're extremely organized and on top of things. As a result, we get things done and our voice gets heard in a positive way. The same thing goes with many other organizations (ie. - most Jeep clubs are very well oiled machines).

When you boil it all down, we really are our own worst enemy. It is hard to argue when someone brings up the fact that the common denominator in most of the ORV related problems is an ATV. The bottom line is, in the areas where ATV's have been banned, the problems have just about gone away. The facts show that you simply do not have the same trouble with the hunting/hiking/buggy/airboat/jeep communities that you have with ATVs. It's sad, but totally true. Just take a look at the Holylands and Ceicil Webb for examples. No problems to speak of.

So, what do we do? Well, for starters we've got to portray ourselves in the most positive light we can. We've got to do all that we can to demonstrate that all of us are not the types of jackazzes that closed the Holylands or who are causing the headaches in Big Cypress. Also, we've got to show that we're willing to do more than just mouth off and conduct a couple of clean-up rides from time to time. Look, it's nice that people want to clean up but, everyone knows it's just an excuse to ride. Start attending meetings in force. Get COMPLETELY educated on the issues and get involved. Make sure the person or persons speaking on our behalf are the right people to do so and that they've got the basis to field the questions asked of them. That's a good solid start.

[Keeter]

 

[Mudneck]

X 2 That puts several thousand ATV'ers out of the running.....

[Anoriginal]

X 2 That puts several thousand ATV'ers out of the running.....

Maybe so but, it shouldn't. If we're put out of the running, it's because of our own failures. We'll have nobody to blame but ourselves. Just like the Holylands.

[greenmachine]

You can always count on Matt for an intelligent and thought provoking post.

It is laughable that some of the 'riders' on this site (if you can even call them that) remind me of PETA kooks.

I have come to the conclusion that the old days in South Florida have finally come to an end.

Lets use The Holeylands as an example, twenty years ago you had to dodge mountains of construction debris and could do practically what ever you wanted to out there, but all was good because hunters, fishermen and illegal dumpers  were the only folks who knew or cared about the place. You use to have to bring a handfull of plugs and a freon tank for a full day of riding out there, and not one of them would have considered suing the state if they were injured nor would they have expected a helicopter to come 'rescue' them because they ran out of gas a half a freaking mile from the road.


Fast forward to today, people call a few bags of chips and a beer can in the parking lot 'trashing the place', and the reason we are being kicked out...all while some fawkin yahoo is jumping OVER the main road on a loud two stroke and a bunch of idiots are doing doughnuts in the parking lot before taking 90+mph runs up the levy.

Give me a break, the ruts and other things used to justify the ban were 'plausible excuses' to kick out the aholes.

I think I finally actually agree that only buggy's and boats should be allowed in these areas nowadays, unfortunately we got way too many stupid people around these days.

I guess 'pay to ride' is really the only thing that can work these days. I noticed 110 acres at our beloved 8th ST is up for sale, someone like that guy Paul_S in North Florida should step up.


Done rambling, I think I will go pull out my little aluminum boat and head to the Holeylands for a few memories and [color=red]hopefully a bass or two.[/color]

The good ole days in South Florida were almost done in the late 80's
as for that "bass or two" that was also about when they deemed them dangerous to eat from the glades due to the mercury.
I moved out of Ft Liquordale in 84 and cant beleive how much it has changed down there........for the worse.
Even at the best riding place in Florida, when you have a big weekend, there are always some dumbazzes that show up with no common sense. Its like they moved here from NYC, woke up one day & decided they would go buy a quad.

[Rare Earth Rider]

Matt1969 yes I know its T. season thats why I did not go out there till after 1:00. thats when its over for that day maybe you did not know that. And I do respect the hunters cause I am one of them and a true Florida cracker born and rased here. I dont think you know what a turkey even looks like o maybe you seen one in winn dixie. also have paid taxes in this state for 45 years I think its ok for me to use FWC once. Anyways  dont take it out on us just cause you got jamed for a $100.00. LOL