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Author Topic: River Ranch Troubles?  (Read 62317 times)
jayd
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« on: June 12, 2005, 03:42:12 PM »

This is an article from the St. Pete Times!   Huh

EASY TO FIND, YET HARD TO FINE

River Ranch Acres Hunt Camp Land Owners Intimidate Neighbors, Violate Polk Laws at Will

By LEONORA LaPETER
St. Petersburg Times

Forty years ago, a large Florida land developer subdivided 44,800 acres of wilderness in Polk County into 11/4-acre lots and sold them to people all over the world, many with dreams of one day retiring here.

Hard-sell land peddlers solicited prospective property owners by phone or on the streets from New Haven and New Orleans to Rome and Hong Kong. But the 70 square miles of land, a portion of it under water, was never developed. It was one of Florida's great land scams.

Today, thousands of these land owners and their descendants still own a tiny piece of Florida, but with little benefit. For the past 25 years, the property has been controlled by a group of hunters and others intent on keeping it the way it always has been: a gated enclave with absolutely no government and few rules.

"I don't know any place like it where you got this kind of freedom," said Becky Surls, 62, a retired school bus driver from Okeechobee who has owned land inside River Ranch since 1984. She transported her grandmother's cabin and rebuilt it about four miles inside the heart of the property. "And so far, we still got that freedom."

But the hunters' control is under attack. River Ranch Acres is in the path of a state environmental conservation plan. Polk County recently launched an investigation into unpermitted building on the property. And a new lawsuit may be looming that seeks to remove gates and open it to other land owners.

The property offers a window into a world where planning, building, health and zoning officials have no control, where one group of landowners has full use of land that belongs to hundreds of thousands of others and government can do little to change it.

Though there are other examples of small groups of hunters or cattlemen using large undeveloped tracts belonging to absentee owners in Florida, none seems as blatant as River Ranch Acres. It was even the subject of a 2004 book called Redneck Riviera, Armadillos, Outlaws and the Demise of an American Dream by the son of one landowner.

For decades, out-of-town landowners have complained of being turned away by guards with guns at River Ranch. The hunters charge their members a $60 annual fee to get in and have haphazardly created a minicity inside gates once erected to hold in cattle.

Large A-frame homes that poke above the overgrowth sit just down the road from tiny plywood shacks. Extension cords drape like clotheslines from one structure to another, providing power from generators. Piles of abandoned trailers, old couches and dead cars are scattered alongside dirt roads thick with sand that eventually become impassable without a four-wheel drive.

Doubledecker swamp buggies -- truck frames with extended steering wheels so the driver and passengers can ride high above the ground -- pass by with camouflage-clad men who tote rifles and gaze suspiciously at outsiders.

"This is the most outrageous thing, that in the year 2005, a county would permit a group of individuals to expropriate lands and to use them for all these illegal purposes . . . and permit it to be that way for 20 years without anyone stopping it," said Richard Bennett, a Coral Gables lawyer who represented a landowner seeking access to River Ranch.

The hunters, however, say they are owners, too, and they have the right to use the land. They deny they turn away other landowners at the gates.

"We're not the bad guys," said Vic Lovallo, who manned the gate at River Ranch one day earlier this year but did not carry a gun. "Whatever, you want to call us . . . we're average American people who come here to have a good time."

Wasyll Gina first saw the full-page ad in the New Haven Register in Connecticut during the late 1960s or early 1970s.

"Buy Land in Florida," the headline almost screamed. The bank auditor, in his 40s, had thought about buying a place to retire so he went to a New Haven restaurant to hear the pitch.

"Not only did they say they were going to build condos, but they also said that Disney World was going to extend to that area and they were going to make a Disneyland water park in there," said Gina, now 85, who paid $3,000 for his lot and has paid taxes (now $10.48 per lot) on it for more than 30 years. "We northerners fell for it hook, line and sinker."

Gulf American Corp., a company started by two men who had made money selling hair conditioner to bald men, developed both Cape Coral near Fort Myers and Golden Gate Estates near Naples. In River Ranch, Leonard and Jack Rosen's third development, they decided to sell the dream but not the actual development. The property was subdivided, but there were no plans for roads or utility lines.

The company pleaded guilty in 1967 to five counts of fraud and misleading practices before the now-defunct Florida Land Sales Board over their land deals. They were fined $5,000 and barred from selling land for 30 days.

By 1971, the company had become GAC Properties Inc., but it was still using high-pressure tactics.

When a St. Petersburg Times reporter went to River Ranch Acres to hear the pitch in 1971, she was given a tour of the property with its western-style saloon and cafe, a large motel, swimming pool, lodge, airstrip and skeet and trap range. But she was never given a copy of the property report that would have told her it was only supposed to be for hiking, camping and picnics.

GAC went bankrupt in 1976 and Avatar Holdings became its successor.

Soon after, hunters who were landowners formed the River Ranch Property Owners Association. The club took control of the property, and soon after that, out-of-town landowners who came to see their property started complaining of being turned away at the gate.

Hershel Smith, a retired diesel mechanic from North Carolina, is one of those property owners. For 37 years, he has owned a couple of acres in the middle of River Ranch Acres.

But he has never seen his land.

He has tried. Four times, he has driven to River Ranch, the last in 2000. Four times, he has been prevented from entering, either by armed guards or a barbed-wire fence.

"I think it's pretty bad, kind of like a Communist to me, to tell you what you can and can't do," says Smith, 64. "It's kind of like the Wild West."

A decade ago, the tangled land dispute grew tenser. Various property owners, among them GAC's successor, Avatar, which owned 1,667 lots, tried to get access to the land to either build roads, cut timber or remove fill dirt. They were stopped by Polk County sheriff's deputies, some of them River Ranch landowners themselves, who announced they would arrest anyone who cut the property's fence.

(When contacted by The Ledger, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said that deputies were present at River Ranch because a timber company attempted to gain access to the site using falsified papers. Judd, who was a major in the sheriff's office at that time, said deputies have recently gone to River Ranch Acres and escorted rightful property owners who were cutting easements to their property.)

The state recognized that the property owners had a right to access their land, but they encouraged all of the parties to back down to stop violence.

"I got so frustrated and mad because I really couldn't do anything about it," said Tommie Ferrell, 71, a retired state investigator for the Florida Land Sales Board who wrote a 1995 report on River Ranch. "It bothers me even to think about it today. . . . What they were doing was not legal, but simply because landowners couldn't identify their property, they couldn't actually say someone was on their property."

Of all of the property owners, C.R. Powell, a retired New Smyrna Beach radio equipment installer for AT&T, has been the most vocal. He has been battling the hunt club since its inception in 1982.

Powell formed a rival property owners' group, the River Ranch Land Owners Association, which he says has some 4,600 dues-paying absentee landowners today.

He filed his first lawsuit against the hunters in 1986. He said he has received death threats and his most recent lawsuit lasted 10 years and cost about $300,000.

Its result: Just one of the dozens of easements into the property was opened up. But he has been back to court over and over because the easement, which is close to his property, is continually faced with roadblocks: a wrecker without wheels, thousands of nails and broken glass, a padlocked gate with glue in the lock.

"Even the surveyors are frightened by those people," said Powell, 64. "These guys have got tobacco dripping off their chin, a gun on their hip and a bulldog in the back of their buggy. As bad as you think it could be, that's what it is."

Dennis Covington, an author from Birmingham, Ala., tried to claim two of the lots in 1997. It had been his only inheritance from his father.

Covington set up a small cabin on his land, which wasn't in the hunt club's designated camping ground but in the hunting area. Before long, his life was also threatened, his cabin shot up and his Jeep set ablaze, according to his book.

Soon after he arrived, he abandoned the dream and went back home to his family.

Inside the hunt club's gate house one day in January, Vic Lovallo of Lakeland was seated at a window with a ledger book in front of him. American flag suspenders held up his jeans, and River Ranch paraphernalia -- T-shirts, halter tops, caps, visors, bandanas and coolies for sale -- hung on the wall behind him.

At the time, he was the hunt club's treasurer, a job he took very seriously. A retired general contractor and volunteer firefighter from New Jersey, Lovallo presented a picture of the club growing stronger not with hunters, but with ATV riders and others needing a place for family recreation.

He said the club had from 4,000 to 5,000 members, who pay $60 a year. But Lovallo declined to say anything about the hunt club's budget.

Next to a gated yard with dozens of swamp buggies, he showed some of the club's spoils: a tractor, a backhoe and an old military surplus firetruck that has become necessary because fires keep raging through the club's camps.

Lovallo and other hunt club members say no one actually lives at River Ranch Acres full time; the camps are for temporary use and most people come on the weekends.

But others say there are plenty of full-time residents, many living in full-fledged homes with hot and cold running water.

"There's more illegal building out there than Carter's got pills," said Bill Read Jr., 81, a surveyor who subdivided River Ranch Acres for Gulf American beginning in 1964 and continues to survey the land for owners today. "Some live there full time. There's mansions out there."

In the past, Polk County officials have said it was too difficult to manage the unpermitted structures.

Lovallo, 66, said many of the structures are old and the hunt association now requires only trailers on wheels.

But recently, Polk County hired a new code enforcement director, Bob Gasper, who has decided to do something about the unpermitted structures at River Ranch.

"You can't not deal with it just because it's a difficult issue," Gasper said.

At the same time, the Nature Conservancy is buying its first River Ranch lots for a state conservation plan. Almost the entire River Ranch Acres subdivision is in the path of the plan, but, for now, the state is only after 3,600 acres in River Ranch north of State Road 60, said Keith Fountain, director of protection for the Nature Conservancy.

But the hunt club isn't taking any chances. It has been pooling its resources, buying up lots. Hunt club members own 5,500 acres, said Pete Edwards, its recently elected president. Its association owns about 300 acres, including 121 acres it recently purchased for $750 an acre.

"There's so many of us, I don't think they're going to mess with us," said Orval Surls, 75, on the side of the dirt road inside River Ranch Acres one day.

Powell said he was not done fighting for access to the land and planned to file another lawsuit soon. He has had five of the two dozen or so easements into the property surveyed at a cost of $25,000. Next he will seek to get the gates removed from in front of those easements.

River Ranch Acres lots are appraised at $630 in the Polk property appraiser's office. But recently the lots have started to pop up for sale on eBay with promises that buyers can build, dig wells and have the free use of 50,000 acres. Nine lots were on sale there one day recently.

"Some of these lots have sold for more than $10,000," one ad said.

With two hours and 17 minutes left, seven bidders had pushed the price of one piece of property to $4,000.

St. Petersburg Times researcher Caryn Baird contributed to this report. Leonora LaPeter can be reached at lapeter@sptimes.com or 727-893-8640.
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2005, 08:57:22 PM »

Guards with Guns!! When was this.  Theres just a bunch of people out there that make sure you sign in and then lift the gate.
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2005, 09:04:36 PM »

camouflage-clad men  Huh
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2005, 09:10:21 PM »

I noticed it also said there were plans to build a resort at River Ranch.  Well, there is one.  There is a whole other portion to River Ranch that has time shares and to the best of my knowledge you can navigate to through the river.

Have never seen the guards w/ gun.  Have never seen anyone on a swamp buggy giving dirty looks.  Have never met a person out there that wasn't nice.  Going to Holopaw you may want to carry a gun w/ you.  River Ranch is nothing like what I'm reading here.

And the ppl that bought land under false pretenses.  Now they want to sue cause they didn't do their homework?  Yeah that's like me suing McDonald's cause I spilled their coffee on me and got burned.  What's wrong w/ having a piece of land that the government doesn't control.  Only reason ppl are mad about that is cause they don't own a piece of the pie.

Get over it move on.  We are harmless ppl out enjoying what little that we are allowed to enjoy.  Hunters just wait the tree huggers are coming after your land when their done w/ what we ride.  Cause you're killing off the endangered florida hog....LOL
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2005, 09:26:18 PM »

Westgate River Ranch Resort is not part of RR estate.
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2005, 09:42:25 PM »

Just abit of a slanted article to try and get their point across for State.
Notice about the pile of campers etc, it's there because we are cleaning place up not because we like it that way. 
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2005, 11:23:06 AM »

It's just a matter of time before developers and enviormentalist take all the land in this state. Well, I guess I can always fall back on fishing.
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2005, 11:51:42 AM »

This kinda shows that the problem isnt as bad as they say, It took them 9 hours to find "roughly" 10 violations. The polk county code enforcement department can't even do anything about the building next to ours that is infested with rats and is filled with mold since the roof was blown off in the hurricane, it also leaks toxic water into our business in heavy rains. It makes half of our downtown smell like trash, but they are going to go bother people that are just trying to enjoy life and are 20 minutes away from any city.

_____________________________________________________

County Begins to Cite River Ranch Violations

By Kyle Kennedy
The Ledger

LAKELAND -- Polk County code enforcement officials went to River Ranch Acres last week and began identifying code violations and citing property owners.

During a nine-hour trip Wednesday, investigators found roughly 10 violations ranging from unpermitted structures and utility connections to illegal dumping. But Irving Forestier, a supervisor with Polk's code enforcement division, said it will be more challenging to find the lot owners.

"To determine who owns what parcel of land, specifically, is very difficult," Forestier said. "We don't have a clear indication of who's out there."

With limited road access to the site and a lack of formal addresses, monitoring building activity at River Ranch Acres has been formidable in the past, said Forestier. While many properties in the county's more populated areas have been mapped through satellite imaging, the remote River Ranch Acres is largely uncharted, he said.

Landowners will have to be found by tracking property appraiser records, Forestier said, a process he expects to be tedious and time-consuming.

Bob Gasper, who became Polk's director of code enforcement in March, said property owners at River Ranch Acres could be fined as much as $250 per day for violations, while repeat violations could draw fines of up to $500 per day.

Also, permanent residents at the site, who live there illegally in unpermitted structures, could face losing their homes.

But the immensity of River Ranch Acres means that it could be some time before officials can contact owners and bring the site into compliance, Gasper said. He said the county has not established a timeline to deal with problems at River Ranch and has no estimate on how many people are there illegally.

"We're working this thing kind of piecemeal right now," Gasper said. "We're going to enforce code, I can tell you that."
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2005, 12:20:53 PM »

This kinda shows that the problem isnt as bad as they say, It took them 9 hours to find "roughly" 10 violations. The polk county code enforcement department can't even do anything about the building next to ours that is infested with rats and is filled with mold since the roof was blown off in the hurricane, it also leaks toxic water into our business in heavy rains. It makes half of our downtown smell like trash, but they are going to go bother people that are just trying to enjoy life and are 20 minutes away from any city.

With any luck the next Hurricane will take that place completely down Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2005, 12:51:09 PM »

750.00 an acre? where do i sign.
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2005, 01:36:24 PM »

This kinda shows that the problem isnt as bad as they say, It took them 9 hours to find "roughly" 10 violations. The polk county code enforcement department can't even do anything about the building next to ours that is infested with rats and is filled with mold since the roof was blown off in the hurricane, it also leaks toxic water into our business in heavy rains. It makes half of our downtown smell like trash, but they are going to go bother people that are just trying to enjoy life and are 20 minutes away from any city.

With any luck the next Hurricane will take that place completely down Smiley

I hope, but it is downtown so we share outside walls Undecided
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2005, 01:40:05 PM »

Try tossing in a bleach-bomb or rat poison may help.
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2005, 02:26:13 PM »

Regarding the article in the St Pete Times, and the Lakeland Ledger on River Ranch:

The article was highly prejudicial against those of us who took time to do the research before we bought deeds to the River Ranch property. It was completely slanted and unfairly portrayed the property owners and the property owners association as thugish redneck outlaws.

"These guys have got tobacco dripping off their chin, a gun on their hip and a bulldog in the back of their buggy. As bad as you think it could be, that's what it is."

I was a bit taken back by the articles quotes which reinforce negative stereotypical images of the Florida Redneck.

Well, I chose not to chew tobacco, I don't own a gun, and I don't raise dogs, but I do own property at river ranch.

However I do ride an ATV, and I do own property down at River Ranch, and I've never had a bad experience with anyone I've met there. On the contrary, everyone I've come across has been amicable and sociable.

The property owners group is an eclectic one, with people from all walks of life.

The problem seems to be that the people who purchased or inherited property in the river ranch domain and wish to use it for commerical gain in the spirit of being a successful business venture can't. They failed to take prudent and judiscious steps to verify and understand the rules, and intent of the property owners association. The fact that they bought their property "site unseen" brings into question their very competency as a "business investor".
They failed to understand the property rights that were conveyed in their deed.

There is a basic rule of law...Caveat ad Emptor...BUYER BEWARE.  While it doesn't allow for outright fradulent business practices by people who sell land, it does put the onus on the buyer to be sure that they are aware of what they are buying and the property rights that come along with that purchase, such as with a "quick claim deed". 

Before I purchased the quick claim deed to my property I was given the following caveats:

1) You may not build on your property.
2) You may only pick a camp site in the "camp site area" which must be approved by the property owners association
3) You may not build permanant structures on your camp site.
4) Anyone can cross your property who is a member of the River Ranch Property Owners Association.
5) Dues of 60 dollars a year are required.
6) If you wish to have your lot surveyed you do so at your own expense. But you can not build on it, or set up camp on it if it is outside the camp area.


After doing this research I purchased my quick claim deed with 3 other people.

We know have over 44,000 acres of open non buildable land to ride our ATV's on, hike, hunt, or fish in.

It's beautiful pristine Florida land once you get out past the camp site area.

River Ranch Property Owners association is working dillegently to clean up the left over debris and garbage from the last 3 hurricanes.

It's just to bad that people who are driven by the greed of making a buck are trying to ruin it for the rest of us.

Although these greedy few may not have tabacoo drooling of their chins, they did purchase non buildable land without taking the time and effort to check for zoning issues. Who's the dumb redneck now?

One last thought:

Even if you don't own property at River Ranch, I encourage you to voice your opinions against the State and Environmentalists taking private lands from ATV enthusiasts.

It seems they are quick to tax the purchase of an ATV, and make you pay to title and register it, but they don't want to represent the ATV enthusiasts concern that the number of places to legally ride are shrinking by the day. Taxation without representation...seems like I remember hearing that from somewhere.



Peace Out
Lost Soul.

PS If you want to fire off an email to author of the article that appeared in the St Pete Times her email is:

Lapeter@sptimes.com

It would be nice if she heard from those of us who represent the interest of ATV enthusiasts, even if you don't specifically own a deed.
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2005, 03:17:15 PM »

I just sent her off a email saying I thought she missed the mark and should come back with an open mind to see what goes on family-wise. We are not a bunch of bad people
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2005, 03:51:56 PM »

Regarding the article in the St Pete Times, and the Lakeland Ledger on River Ranch:

The article was highly prejudicial against those of us who took time to do the research before we bought deeds to the River Ranch property. It was completely slanted and unfairly portrayed the property owners and the property owners association as thugish redneck outlaws.

"These guys have got tobacco dripping off their chin, a gun on their hip and a bulldog in the back of their buggy. As bad as you think it could be, that's what it is."

I was a bit taken back by the articles quotes which reinforce negative stereotypical images of the Florida Redneck.

Well, I chose not to chew tobacco, I don't own a gun, and I don't raise dogs, but I do own property at river ranch.

However I do ride an ATV, and I do own property down at River Ranch, and I've never had a bad experience with anyone I've met there. On the contrary, everyone I've come across has been amicable and sociable.

The property owners group is an eclectic one, with people from all walks of life.

The problem seems to be that the people who purchased or inherited property in the river ranch domain and wish to use it for commerical gain in the spirit of being a successful business venture can't. They failed to take prudent and judiscious steps to verify and understand the rules, and intent of the property owners association. The fact that they bought their property "site unseen" brings into question their very competency as a "business investor".
They failed to understand the property rights that were conveyed in their deed.

There is a basic rule of law...Caveat ad Emptor...BUYER BEWARE.  While it doesn't allow for outright fradulent business practices by people who sell land, it does put the onus on the buyer to be sure that they are aware of what they are buying and the property rights that come along with that purchase, such as with a "quick claim deed". 

Before I purchased the quick claim deed to my property I was given the following caveats:

1) You may not build on your property.
2) You may only pick a camp site in the "camp site area" which must be approved by the property owners association
3) You may not build permanant structures on your camp site.
4) Anyone can cross your property who is a member of the River Ranch Property Owners Association.
5) Dues of 60 dollars a year are required.
6) If you wish to have your lot surveyed you do so at your own expense. But you can not build on it, or set up camp on it if it is outside the camp area.


After doing this research I purchased my quick claim deed with 3 other people.

We know have over 44,000 acres of open non buildable land to ride our ATV's on, hike, hunt, or fish in.

It's beautiful pristine Florida land once you get out past the camp site area.

River Ranch Property Owners association is working dillegently to clean up the left over debris and garbage from the last 3 hurricanes.

It's just to bad that people who are driven by the greed of making a buck are trying to ruin it for the rest of us.

Although these greedy few may not have tabacoo drooling of their chins, they did purchase non buildable land without taking the time and effort to check for zoning issues. Who's the dumb redneck now?

One last thought:

Even if you don't own property at River Ranch, I encourage you to voice your opinions against the State and Environmentalists taking private lands from ATV enthusiasts.

It seems they are quick to tax the purchase of an ATV, and make you pay to title and register it, but they don't want to represent the ATV enthusiasts concern that the number of places to legally ride are shrinking by the day. Taxation without representation...seems like I remember hearing that from somewhere.



Peace Out
Lost Soul.

PS If you want to fire off an email to author of the article that appeared in the St Pete Times her email is:

Lapeter@sptimes.com

It would be nice if she heard from those of us who represent the interest of ATV enthusiasts, even if you don't specifically own a deed.

Well said,
My e-mail will go out to her today.
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2005, 04:04:36 PM »

done
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2006, 12:04:20 PM »

I noticed it also said there were plans to build a resort at River Ranch.  Well, there is one.  There is a whole other portion to River Ranch that has time shares and to the best of my knowledge you can navigate to through the river.

Have never seen the guards w/ gun.  Have never seen anyone on a swamp buggy giving dirty looks.  Have never met a person out there that wasn't nice.  Going to Holopaw you may want to carry a gun w/ you.  River Ranch is nothing like what I'm reading here.

And the ppl that bought land under false pretenses.  Now they want to sue cause they didn't do their homework?  Yeah that's like me suing McDonald's cause I spilled their coffee on me and got burned.  What's wrong w/ having a piece of land that the government doesn't control.  Only reason ppl are mad about that is cause they don't own a piece of the pie.

Get over it move on.  We are harmless ppl out enjoying what little that we are allowed to enjoy.  Hunters just wait the tree huggers are coming after your land when their done w/ what we ride.  Cause you're killing off the endangered florida hog....LOL

"What's wrong w/ having a piece of land that the government doesn't control."

Absolutely nothing, its called private property... I agree with you...
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2006, 12:11:15 PM »

Wow.... This is old   Huh
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2006, 12:34:40 PM »

I have been teling people about this for a long time & MJLands keeps selling them. We paid about $750 each for 5 lots in about 1983-1985 & they are on the lake near "mudgate" & right on the bombing range fence line.  We have known for at leat 10 years that the state is trying to do away with it, it will happen especially with articles like these popping up. 
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2006, 12:54:02 PM »

The old River Ranch POST!!!
Here we go: I have had different thoughts and interpretations about RR and how things go down there. During my research I found that it can be an awesome place for OHV enthusiasts and hunters alike. However the "hunters" dont see it that way. They feel like they are entitled to every piece because they have been there longer or carry guns or whatever the reason. The article is biased. However, not entirely. The hunters "DO" look down on ATV enthusiasts looking for a place to stricly ride, even if they do own land. They dont like sport quads and "DO" indeed look down on you when they see you riding a sport quad (first hand experience). Again, not all do this, but most do. I don't understand why they just dont make a side for hunters and one for ATV's. I would buy land out there if things can be more controlled, organized and ATV's were more openly accepted. If they would just do things right, they would make a heck of a lot of money for maintenence etc, etc. If they advertised RR as an ATV park (half of the land) then they would have many more members and more money to make changes as far as roads, security and overall maintenence of the place. I doubt this will ever happen but if it does it would be great. Just my two cents as an outsider and RR visitor.   
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2006, 02:19:14 PM »

i sent my rebuttal to the slant pete times
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2006, 09:20:08 PM »

The old River Ranch POST!!!
Here we go: I have had different thoughts and interpretations about RR and how things go down there. During my research I found that it can be an awesome place for OHV enthusiasts and hunters alike. However the "hunters" dont see it that way. They feel like they are entitled to every piece because they have been there longer or carry guns or whatever the reason. The article is biased. However, not entirely. The hunters "DO" look down on ATV enthusiasts looking for a place to stricly ride, even if they do own land. They dont like sport quads and "DO" indeed look down on you when they see you riding a sport quad (first hand experience). Again, not all do this, but most do. I don't understand why they just dont make a side for hunters and one for ATV's. I would buy land out there if things can be more controlled, organized and ATV's were more openly accepted. If they would just do things right, they would make a heck of a lot of money for maintenence etc, etc. If they advertised RR as an ATV park (half of the land) then they would have many more members and more money to make changes as far as roads, security and overall maintenence of the place. I doubt this will ever happen but if it does it would be great. Just my two cents as an outsider and RR visitor.   




while on my sport quad i too felt looked down on and recieved a few dirty looks from buggy guys but i just ignored them because i payed my $20 at the gate and they let me in!  if they did not want me there they shouldnt of let me in. the money making potential at RR is unbelievable if it was an atv park$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2006, 09:46:44 AM »

The old River Ranch POST!!!
Here we go: I have had different thoughts and interpretations about RR and how things go down there. During my research I found that it can be an awesome place for OHV enthusiasts and hunters alike. However the "hunters" dont see it that way. They feel like they are entitled to every piece because they have been there longer or carry guns or whatever the reason. The article is biased. However, not entirely. The hunters "DO" look down on ATV enthusiasts looking for a place to stricly ride, even if they do own land. They dont like sport quads and "DO" indeed look down on you when they see you riding a sport quad (first hand experience). Again, not all do this, but most do. I don't understand why they just dont make a side for hunters and one for ATV's. I would buy land out there if things can be more controlled, organized and ATV's were more openly accepted. If they would just do things right, they would make a heck of a lot of money for maintenence etc, etc. If they advertised RR as an ATV park (half of the land) then they would have many more members and more money to make changes as far as roads, security and overall maintenence of the place. I doubt this will ever happen but if it does it would be great. Just my two cents as an outsider and RR visitor.   




while on my sport quad i too felt looked down on and recieved a few dirty looks from buggy guys but i just ignored them because i payed my $20 at the gate and they let me in!  if they did not want me there they shouldnt of let me in. the money making potential at RR is unbelievable if it was an atv park$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Yep. The place is nice, I really like it and I would pay to ride there everytime!!! Damn politics!!!!
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2006, 10:01:13 AM »

I hunt and ride atvs. I don't own a lot in RR. But, here's my 2 cents - you have to look at it a minute from the hunter's point of view. They have been hunting there a long time - before the influx of ATVs. If an ATV park all of the sudden had a bunch of hunters come in and say "hey, give us half", ATVers would probably be shooting them some nasty looks.

It's all about respect in how and where you ride - and following the rules set down by the majority of owners.

And, the reason they look down on ATVers is because they're usually in a buggy that stands 5 times as high.  Grin
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2006, 01:32:51 PM »

Same old stories. I just obtained a piece .325 acre. My good buddy put me on his deed for Zero dollars to help him build his camp. He paid $1000.00 for 1.25 about 5 years ago. Although you have to respect the rest of the people out there.
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