CCW

[Anoriginal]

Matt, i understand what you're saying about identifying the gun being a farce, i thought about that too, however, why even let people know you carry and give them the opportunity to make up a story.  if they don't know, they would only be guessing. 

True and a good point. 

[shogun323]

My carry weapon depends on the clothing I am wearing. If I have to wear form fitting work clothes I carry a noisy cricket (Keltec .380) with the belt clip.

When wearing clothes a little baggier I have my beloved Kimber 1911 Ultra Carry II.

[MedicMudder]

model 1911 45 big azzz heavy brick,but if needed big hole going in BIGGER hole going out

[B. Graves]

No problem..... They cant sue you from shooting them any more.

Not true...  The new law has nothing to do with litigation after the fact.  The new law changes the situations in which you can legally defend yourself.

Previously, you had to make an effort to retreat and/or avoid confrontation before you could legally defend yourself.  The new law strikes that down and basically states you must be in fear for yourself or your possessions or person's life or possessions in proximity to you.

Sounds like a good portion of the people on the Forums here need to invest in the book by Jon Gutmacher, "Florida Firearms:  Law, Use & Ownership"

Remember, unless you have your CCW almost any firearm-related offense or infraction is going to make you a FELON.  Even driving within 1000 feet of a school with a weapon in your car counts if you don't have a CCW.

shoot to kill and no problems with that. and are you saying that if im defending myself at my house w/out a CCWP that it can be a felony? im only 18 so i cant get the CCWP yet.

[shogun323]

No problem..... They cant sue you from shooting them any more.

Not true...  The new law has nothing to do with litigation after the fact.  The new law changes the situations in which you can legally defend yourself.

Previously, you had to make an effort to retreat and/or avoid confrontation before you could legally defend yourself.  The new law strikes that down and basically states you must be in fear for yourself or your possessions or person's life or possessions in proximity to you.

Sounds like a good portion of the people on the Forums here need to invest in the book by Jon Gutmacher, "Florida Firearms:  Law, Use & Ownership"

Remember, unless you have your CCW almost any firearm-related offense or infraction is going to make you a FELON.  Even driving within 1000 feet of a school with a weapon in your car counts if you don't have a CCW.

shoot to kill and no problems with that. and are you saying that if im defending myself at my house w/out a CCWP that it can be a felony? im only 18 so i cant get the CCWP yet.

Nope. The castle doctrine states you are within your rights to defend your home. There is no exemption from law suits. I take it as a given that if I had to shoot someone there would be a Civil suit from the scumbags family.

[SpeedQuest]

shoot to kill and no problems with that. and are you saying that if im defending myself at my house w/out a CCWP that it can be a felony? im only 18 so i cant get the CCWP yet.

You can defend yourself in your domicile...  But let me ask you a quick question?  Do you live with your parents or do you rent an apartment/duplex/condo?

[Anoriginal]

Doesn't matter, provided you're in reasonable fear for your lifeand/or the life of another.

You domicile = where you live.

[Ynot0323]

Kahr 40cal


I am not much on pistols.  I asked for one that my wife could shoot (she has a small hand) I was looking at the 9mm but the guy said he has seen someone get shot with a 9mm and still come at you so he suggested a 40cal.  She has done very well shooting it!  I hate to say it but her patterns were a lot better than mine.  Anyway thats what we carry.

Someone still come at you after being shot with a 9mm ?? FUNNY.. Obviously they werent good shots and you didnt empty the mag.. Personally i HATE the 40.. I would rather shoot a 45... But that is just me..

Every agency that shoots at my job, that has the 40, does not like it, and they only shoot it to qualify, it is a brutal round..

Tony
*Medley Police Range RDO *

[IXIswamperIXI]

Kahr 40cal


I am not much on pistols.  I asked for one that my wife could shoot (she has a small hand) I was looking at the 9mm but the guy said he has seen someone get shot with a 9mm and still come at you so he suggested a 40cal.  She has done very well shooting it!  I hate to say it but her patterns were a lot better than mine.  Anyway thats what we carry.

Someone still come at you after being shot with a 9mm ?? FUNNY.. Obviously they werent good shots and you didnt empty the mag.. Personally i HATE the 40.. I would rather shoot a 45... But that is just me..

Every agency that shoots at my job, that has the 40, does not like it, and they only shoot it to qualify, it is a brutal round..

Tony
*Medley Police Range RDO *

I don't know much about them. (pistols) That little thing is heavy and small and pretty strong.  Thought it would fit her hands better with less recoil.  Its ok, we are not serious shooters.  Its just for the house, ect.   

[TRX450R_Racer]

Here is the best home protection.

[IXIswamperIXI]

or this? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snDf5PnNsyM

LOL

[SpeedQuest]

Doesn't matter, provided you're in reasonable fear for your lifeand/or the life of another.

You domicile = where you live.

Ahh...  but it does matter.  If you live in an apartment building and you DON'T have a CCW, explain to me how you got the firearm into your apartment without commiting a felony?

Without a CCW, it's a felony to carry (concealed or otherwise) a firearm in any 'common areas' of an apartment, condominium or other multi-family dwelling or complex.  So if you bought a firearm (or it was gifted to you), how did you get it into your apartment without breaking the law?

Believe it or not, cops can and will bring this up from time to time.

One more reason why the legislators need to make gun laws into State Laws, rather than State Constitutional Amendments.  Now in order to change the stupid wording it would take a majority vote by the general public, rather than just letting the legislators modify it within the Statutes.

[IXIswamperIXI]

What if you knew someone with a CCW and that person brought it to you?

[B. Graves]

Doesn't matter, provided you're in reasonable fear for your lifeand/or the life of another.

You domicile = where you live.

Ahh...  but it does matter.  If you live in an apartment building and you DON'T have a CCW, explain to me how you got the firearm into your apartment without commiting a felony?

Without a CCW, it's a felony to carry (concealed or otherwise) a firearm in any 'common areas' of an apartment, condominium or other multi-family dwelling or complex.  So if you bought a firearm (or it was gifted to you), how did you get it into your apartment without breaking the law?

Believe it or not, cops can and will bring this up from time to time.

One more reason why the legislators need to make gun laws into State Laws, rather than State Constitutional Amendments.  Now in order to change the stupid wording it would take a majority vote by the general public, rather than just letting the legislators modify it within the Statutes.

i still live with my parents in a neighborhood.

[bluesman]

Its very simple
                            ID RATHER BE TRIED BY 12
                                            THAN CARRIED BY 6
                                                                               BLUESMAN

[IXIswamperIXI]

Its very simple
                            ID RATHER BE TRIED BY 12
                                            THAN CARRIED BY 6
                                                                               BLUESMAN

Just playing devils advocate here  but not all burgalares want to kill you.

Now with that said I completely understand what you are saying.  Better safe than sorry! 

[big-daddy]

Its very simple
                            ID RATHER BE TRIED BY 12
                                            THAN CARRIED BY 6
                                                                               BLUESMAN

So true! 

[Anoriginal]

Doesn't matter, provided you're in reasonable fear for your lifeand/or the life of another.

You domicile = where you live.

Ahh...  but it does matter.  If you live in an apartment building and you DON'T have a CCW, explain to me how you got the firearm into your apartment without commiting a felony?

Without a CCW, it's a felony to carry (concealed or otherwise) a firearm in any 'common areas' of an apartment, condominium or other multi-family dwelling or complex.  So if you bought a firearm (or it was gifted to you), how did you get it into your apartment without breaking the law?

Believe it or not, cops can and will bring this up from time to time.

One more reason why the legislators need to make gun laws into State Laws, rather than State Constitutional Amendments.  Now in order to change the stupid wording it would take a majority vote by the general public, rather than just letting the legislators modify it within the Statutes.

Actually, you're wrong. You can carry a weapon properly encased to and from your apartment/condo, etc. The problems come up when you take your gun in a concealed manner from your dwelling into a common area. Your right to carry concealed ends at the door.

[SpeedQuest]

Actually, you're wrong. You can carry a weapon properly encased to and from your apartment/condo, etc. The problems come up when you take your gun in a concealed manner from your dwelling into a common area. Your right to carry concealed ends at the door.

Sorry Reality, you are wrong.  "Common area" as defined by Florida case law regarding apartments, duplexes, condominiums, begins the moment you step off of your welcome mat outside your front door.  This includes parking lots, sidewalks, adjacent sidewalks, breezeways, swimming pools, rental/manager offices, etc.

Again, this is why we all need to chastise our legislators.  The way the law is currently written, it is ILLEGAL (and a FELONY) for a non-CCW person to take a gun (encased or not) into his/her apartment from his/her vehicle.  And in order to change this it will take a Constitutional Amendment, not just a meeting of the legislators.

[Anoriginal]

Um, guess you don't get the updates on the Florida Gun laws huh?

Under a ruling this past year by the Florida Supreme Court, it's no longer an issue. It's the same reasoning as the "take your gun to work" legislation that went into effect after Gutmacher's latest edition. (Which contained the theory you're talking about on pages 94-95.)   

[SpeedQuest]

I do get the updates.  But, your arguement is circumstantial at best.  The "Guns At Work" legislation is an animal of a different sort.  In a legal sense, just because you are granted a specific permission in one situation, does not mean you are granted the same permission in a similar yet different situation.

While your line of thinking makes sense(and I think it should be legal by the way), the new "Guns At Work" legislation does nothing to clarify or describe the rights of individuals to carry a firearm in their vehicle in the setting we are discussing(in parking lots of apartment complexes, duplexes, condo's, etc).  Yes, the new law allows employees to carry 'secured' weapon on their employers "Parking Lots".  And of course the old laws on the books allow you to transport a firearm "securely encased" or not "readily available" in a private conveyance.

As Mr. Gutmacher loves to say...  Perfect ground for a 'test case'.  Which means on the outset you have a 50/50 chance of going to jail for a Felony.

The reality still remains, in Florida, if you don't have your CCW, you are truly restricted.

[singleshot]

This is a great story....I hope it is true.

Snopes has this listed as "Undetermined". They are still researching
it.

From the personals column of a Savannah, GA local paper

To the Guy Who Mugged Me (Downtown, Savannah, Ga.):

I was the guy with the black Burberry jacket that you demanded I hand
over shortly after you pulled the knife on me and my girlfriend. You
also asked for my girlfriend's purse and earrings. I hope you somehow
come across this message. I'd like to apologize.

I didn't expect you to cr@p your pants when I drew my pistol after
you took my jacket. Truth is, I was wearing the jacket for a reason that
evening, and it wasn't that cold outside. You see, my girlfriend had
just bought me that Kimber 1911 .45 ACP pistol for Christmas, and we had
just picked up a shoulder holster for it that evening. Beautiful
pistol, eh? It's a very intimidating weapon when pointed at your head, isn't
it?

I know it probably wasn't a great deal of fun walking back to
wherever you'd come from with that brown sludge flopping about in your pants.
I'm sure it was even worse since you also ended up leaving your shoes,
cellphone, and wallet with me. I couldn't have you calling up any of
your buddies to come help you try to mug us again. I took the liberty of
calling your mother, or "Momma" as you had her listed in your cell, and
explaining to her your situation. I also bought myself some gas on
your card. I gave your shoes to one of the homeless guys over by Vinnie
Van Go Go's, along with all of the cash in your wallet, then I threw the
wallet itself in a dumpster.

I called a bunch of phone s@x numbers from your cell. They'll be on
your bill in case you'd like to know which ones. Alltel recently shut
down the line, and I've only had the phone for a little over a day now,
so I don't know what's going on with that. I hope they haven't
permanently cut off your service. I was about to make some threatening phone
calls to the DA's office with it. Oh well.

So, about your pants. I know that I was a little rough on you when
you did this whole attempted mugging thing, so I'd like to make it up to
you. I'm sure you've already washed your pants, so I'd like to help you
out. I'd like to reimburse you for the detergent you used on the
pants. What brand did you use, and was it liquid or powder? I'd also like to
apologize for not killing you and instead making you walk back home
humiliated. I'm hoping that you'll reconsider your choice of path in
life. Next time you might not be so lucky. If you read this message, email
me and we'll do lunch and laundry.

Peace! - Alex

Note: These things happen when law abiding citizens qualify for a
concealed weapons permit.

[SpeedQuest]

Okay, Mr. Gutmacher has replied to my inquiry...  Here is what I asked:

In the copy of my book, Sixth Edition, copyrighted 2008, I understand that "common areas" of apartment complexes, duplexes, etc. are off limits to a person carrying a firearm unless they have a CCW permit?  Is this correct?  Or are those areas now covered under the law governing workplace and "take your gun to work".  Thanks in advance for your opinion!

Here is his response, short and to the point:

off limits
 
jhg

Seeing as Mr. Gutmacher is probably the foremost in Gun Law in Florida, I would say the case is now closed...

[Anoriginal]

Actually, you're wrong. You can carry a weapon properly encased to and from your apartment/condo, etc. The problems come up when you take your gun in a concealed manner from your dwelling into a common area. Your right to carry concealed ends at the door.

Sorry Reality, you are wrong.  "Common area" as defined by Florida case law regarding apartments, duplexes, condominiums, begins the moment you step off of your welcome mat outside your front door.  This includes parking lots, sidewalks, adjacent sidewalks, breezeways, swimming pools, rental/manager offices, etc.

Um, that's what I said. 

Anyway, about your Gutmacher e mail. Do what you like and take whatever precautions you will. Always better to err on the side of caution.

I just re-read the cases (two of them) from September and December 2008 on Westlaw. The "reasoning" was the same as the take your gun to work law....I never said it covered it and niether did the courts. You'll note that Section 790.25 Florida Statutes (2009) never specifically addresses common areas and the only place it's ever been an issue is in the court's interpretation.

Agreed that Gutmacher is the foremost authority. But, I'm going by what the Supreme Court ruled. In fact, there only one or two cases out there where a person was hammered over the common areas issue and it wasn't based upon an encased weapon. Rather, it was concealment and brandishing. (As in the State v. Sherrod case cited by Gutmacher in his book).

Keep in mind, in the Sherrod case the defendant was found guilty of carrying a concealed weapon on property (not his own) without a CCWP. He might as well have been standing in the parking lot of a grocery store with a concealed weapon. Either way, the result was going to be the same. Nothing in the Sherrod case (or those citing it or related to it) deals with carrying a gun in a case to your home from your car or from the store to you car, etc. etc. etc. If that were the case, every time you purchased a gun and walked to your car with it, you'd be guilty of a felony.

Moreover, the issue of possession of a firearm in a common area would never be an issue as long as you did not admit to the transportation. "I don't recall how that weapon got into my apartment/condo, etc." Is perfectly allowable and gets you around it...assuming I am wrong.

I agree though, unless you have a CCWP, you're definitely restricted in Florida.

(Oh, and there is a mistake in Gutmacher's book at foot note 109. The actual cite for the Sherrod case he refers to is: Sherrod v. State, 484 So.2d 1279, 11 Fla. L. Weekly 461 (Fla.App. 4 Dist. Feb 19, 1986) In case anyone wants to look it up.)

[B. Graves]

is it legal for me to have a shotgun in my truck? its not readily accessible but its also not in a case either.