Another Riding Area Gone Real Soon

[Anoriginal]

Well, some of us saw it coming a long, long time ago and it looks like it's coming sooner rather than later. I just got off the phone with some high up muckety mucks with the NPS. I was calling them regarding prescribed burning around my camp in the Big Cypress. We spoke for quite a while (actually me and two of them on speaker phone) about the great job the Park Service has done with their prescribed burning in the Big Cypress and their future plans for the same.

It wasn't long before our conversation shifted to designated trails, access, etc. These folks informed me that they've had increasing problems with ATV riders accessing the preserve without proper licensing or registration, at improper locations and improper times. In addition, there's been an increase in thefts and vandalism at back country camps attributed to ATV's. Also, they said that they've been stopping and getting reports of ATV riders on sport bikes entering the preserve with bikes that are not allowed and racing/riding fast through the preserve and across roads in the dry season.

According to them, they've already set the wheels in motion to either severely limit ATV use in the Big Cypress or ban it all together. From what they said, it looks like this will probably take place within the next 12-18 months. Mind you, this is not coming from some FWC field officer. Rather, this is coming from high ups with the NPS. The Big Cypress is governed by the National Park Service and ultimately the Department of the Interior. So, it's Federally controlled and not subject to the same criteria as the State WMA's like Holeylands. These folks could care less about what  you and I like to do in the Big Cypress. If they decide to cut us out, we're cut out.

So, thanks to the same type of morons who ruined Holeylands, it looks like those of us who use ATV's to get around the Big Cypress will suffer as well. One of the guys actually told me they caught a group of riders in full race gear on sport bikes flying down one of the rock roads in the preserve about one week ago. There were six riders, none of them  had ORV licenses and none of the bikes were registered nor did they have proof of ownership. After checking, two of the bikes came back stolen.

So, if any of you read this and are one of the idiots described above, I hope you're happy. If you know any of these idiots, slap them for me and the rest of the responsible ATV riders that frequent this web site. Again, it looks like a few jerks have ruined it for the rest of us.

[lswjth2]

Matt thxs for the update. I saw this coming the moment that they closed down the Picayune. I agree toooooooooooooo many morons inside the cypress, people that i personally know and no longer ride with. They squat on private camps, drink beer and leave the cans there, drive drunk and  so on. It's the same old story, people ruin in it for people. I wonder if this will also apply to the camp 0owners since ATV are a legitimate way to get to the camps??

I know that in about 1 to 2 years from now, once the trails are completed, the camp owners will be allowed to issue 6 permits to their friends to access the camps on a pre-approved trail into that camp and unless you have the permit on your person, you cannot get off the trails period!

[Anoriginal]

Rick,

I think you and I talked about this in the past and both of us saw it coming. Although I love being able to ride my ATV to camp for quick trips when it doesn't make sense to haul my buggy all the way down to Monroe Station, I can't say that part of me isn't somewhat relieved by the news.

We've been getting more and more packs of people on ATV's in camp and increased valdalism and theft in neighboring camps. Lucky for me, my camp is very well hidden and not easy to find because it is well off the beaten path and designated trail.

I know of four different camps that have cameras set up in their yards. They've got pictures of people on ATV's coming into their gated yards, breaking into their camps, squatting, leaving trash, racing up and down the remote airstrips, etc. None of them have had any of these issues from anyone else. One friend of mine actually arrived at camp one Friday evening to find three young guys on ATV's inside his camp, sitting at his dinner table eating their lunch. They were actually jerks to him when he told them it was private property and they had to leave. And, whatsmore, it seems to be the same types of people every time. Those who you can tell are obviously not riding registered ATVs, most of them riding double, etc.

As far as camp owners go, I asked them about it.  According to them, any rule/regulation change will be applied across the board to everyone, including camp owners. While it sucks, if it keeps human trash out of my camp, I'm not totally against it. Hate to say it, but it's true.

[Turk]

 I think thats an absolute disgrace to disrespect and intrude on private property.Even when I ride out at the HoleyLands I know to stay clear of the camps out of respect for the owners because I know I wouldnt want uninvited intruders tresspassing.I think it's a shame for those of us who truley love to ride our machines and enjoy the sights of the everglades and respect the land.I've grown up and lived in South Florida for 30 years and now i'm ready to go out and enjoy the everglades and see what it's all about and that privilege may no longer be because of those types of Idiots.

[big-daddy]

There was a member on here that cleaned his quad in a camp at the holy land. his one of those idiots on this forum. Takes b@lls to you into someones camp and clean your quad after you make a mud pit in the guys lawn. Matt do you remember this?

[greenmachine]

Yeah I remember, that camp was/is my cousins camp. Nicest camp in the glades. Electric doors, central heat & a/c & a fan above the doors to keep the bugs out running hot & cold water satellite tv. It is truly a home away from home. It has been out there for over 30+years.
After he was blasted for it, he removed the pics. The mudhole in the front yard is called the "gatorhole" & the owners kids ride their quads in it so it wasnt that big of a deal.
But he was trespassing & to post pics of it was kinda not smart.
I think he learned his lesson. right Jack?

[big-daddy]

yeah......... JackL     Learned is lesson hhmmmm I dont know about that! Once a dumb azz, always a dumb azz

[Anoriginal]

It's a shame for sure. With the trespassing, the valdalism, thefts, unregistered bikes, unlicensed riders, speeding and completely disobeying the rules, it was bound to happen. I was told that the reasoning is, the ATV riders are the problem, do away with the ATV's and you do away with the problem. They said they had very little to no trouble what so ever with the buggy owners and that the overwhelming majority of the complaints, citations, search and rescues, trespassings, thefts and general problems have one thing in common, and that's ATV's.

We all know who the people are that caused this.  Jerks.

[exhausted]

it is a shame , i personaly did a ride out to that camp once , DID NOT GO INTO CAMP , stayed on other side of the "GATOR HOLE " swampside , saw 3 air boats go into camp and make themselves at home on the front porch , people everywhere , at first thought it was thier camp , but could tell it wasn`t by the way they were all looking in the windows , we had two bikes stuck on the outside  so we took a beer break had a smoke , got unstuck , then the airboat people loaded up & took off , & we left , ,,,,,, it is a shame about people sometimes , and it`s everywhere , ,,, But that is a NICE CAMP , met the owner once about 2 yrs back , drove my CJ out with some friends , they had invites , so i taged along , doing driving duties .

[brett711]

the camp out in the holands yall are talkina bout, the owners are very nice.. they invited us in for a steak dinner. there request is not to park on the front lawn and to remove your trash.

[Chillinthemost]

 I heard that they were only going to ban Kawasaki and Polaris ATVs. They have found that riders on Yamahas and Hondas were less likely to vandalize. They are still looking into Suzuki, they think that the Suzi riders may be responsible for the beer cans.

[rdm225]

We camped out at holeylands 2 weeks ago down by the pump house, fwc boys were on a rampage checking out everyone and hasseling people. i have never seen so many people out there it was insane. if they close hl i will have to leave this f**k**g state

[AintSkeered]

I wish I had access to any of those Holeyland camps. Although I've visited them with a group, I don't believe anyone has the right to simply drive up and park there, especially at night, without expressed permission from the campers. I understand the campers have legal leases/rights to that public land. And, they're not unique in that. Logging/mining companies have legal leases/rights to public lands, raping and carving roads into those public lands. Hunters also have legal access to other public lands and non-hunters are prohibited during the hunting seasons. You wouldn't ride up to those hunters on your ATV during hunting season, but, you'd feel free to ride up to their camps and then be puzzled when ATVs get banned?

[Rick16b]

They are still looking into Suzuki, they think that the Suzi riders may be responsible for the beer cans.

It's true, I am   

[jrpro130]

Well, I already created a post explaining my thoughts on the problem.

Look at what underhill is doing, banning sport quads...thats a shock 

I think I see a trend...sport quads.  But I can't talk too much, I ride an ATV too. Just so happens it's a 4x4 though

[Anoriginal]

I heard that they were only going to ban Kawasaki and Polaris ATVs. They have found that riders on Yamahas and Hondas were less likely to vandalize. They are still looking into Suzuki, they think that the Suzi riders may be responsible for the beer cans.

That's funny right there....I don't care who you are.

[greenmachine]

My cousin is very cool & inviting to anyone who happens up there when they are there. And yes they like to keep everyone off the manicured st augustine lawn. The steak dinner thing sounds like you met them for sure. He stays up on Lake Panasofkee mostly now at his other house. He has a red diamondback airboat & a full track called "killing time" they used to dominate the Broward Co Airboat & Track show every year. Now he just likes to ride airboats 24/7.
When I was a kid growing up in the 70's-80's we were out in the glades pretty much every weekend at Sawgrass or out on the alley running tracks or airboats back when you steered an airboat with your feet & they ONLY had aircraft engines in them !

[Anoriginal]

All of the fun we had and have in places like the Holylands and Big Cypress are being lost thanks to a bunch of punks.

[Turboderf]

Look at what underhill is doing, banning sport quads...thats a shock 

I think I see a trend...sport quads.  But I can't talk too much, I ride an ATV too. Just so happens it's a 4x4 though

no sport quards .... just drunk mudders welcome

[Anoriginal]

Lets keep this on topic. It's too big an issue to not stay focused.

[jrpro130]

I'm not going to reply to those two comments, just to keep it on topic.

[ScooterB]

This is an email response Rick received from NPS

Hello Rick,

The posting is incorrect. We are not planning on discontinuing the use of
ATVs within the Preserve. The 2001 Recreational ORV Management Plan allows
for the use of these vehicles. We will be continuing our efforts to ensure
that people traveling within the Preserve operate their vehicles in an
appropriate manner, which includes staying on designated trails in areas
where designated trails exist, following the 15 mph speed limit, meeting
vehicle specifications, etc. Our plan is not to stop ORV use but rather,
continue implementing the ORV plan so that we can meet our goal of having a
fully designated trail system and end the remaining dispersed use within
the Preserve.

We recognize that a big part of dispelling rumors like this is to get staff
and volunteers out in the field to talk with the visitors that use ORVs.
The NPS continues to move forward to implementing a Volunteer Trail Ranger
Program. I know that you and many of your friends are getting involved in
this. Ed and I hope to have our first recruitment and training during the
summer so that we can have volunteers in the field next fall and winter.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention Rick.

Bob DeGross
Big Cypress National Preserve
Chief of Interpretation and Public Affairs

33100 Tamiami Trail East
Ochopee, FL 34141
239-695-1107 office; 239-695-2259 fax

The National Park Service cares for special places saved by the American
people so that all may experience our heritage.
Experience Your America!



                                                                                                                                       
                      jose VArela                                                                                                     
                      <lswjth2@yahoo.co        To:       Bob_DeGross@nps.gov                                                           
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                                               Subject:  Re: Can you take a look
at this link and comment on it?                       
                      01/22/2008 04:17                                                                                                 
                      PM PST                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                       




Bob as always, thank you. Hopefully someone can shed some light on this. I
was always afraid of the illegal closure of the Picayune that people would
start using the preserve as an ATV park, unfortunately this and
Holeylands(which will be severely restricted) are the only public legal
places to ride south of I-4, and a lot of the new people that are going out
to the preserve don't grasp the concept of this not being an ATV park. I
have personally gone out there with friends of a friend and i have told
them to not come back,unfortunately it does not take many to ruin this for
the one's that do abide by the rules and take ownership of their
actions...let me know.......Thxs

[Anoriginal]

Man that's promising to hear! I sure hope it's correct and not more lip service like we've received in the past. In the past, everything these two guys told me has come true. Hopefully they're wrong this time!

Wooo!

[digginfool]

My cousin is very cool & inviting to anyone who happens up there when they are there. And yes they like to keep everyone off the manicured st augustine lawn. The steak dinner thing sounds like you met them for sure. He stays up on Lake Panasofkee mostly now at his other house. He has a red diamondback airboat & a full track called "killing time" they used to dominate the Broward Co Airboat & Track show every year. Now he just likes to ride airboats 24/7.
When I was a kid growing up in the 70's-80's we were out in the glades pretty much every weekend at Sawgrass or out on the alley running tracks or airboats back when you steered an airboat with your feet & they ONLY had aircraft engines in them !

If your cousin is the one I met, he's a cool old guy (like I have any room to talk    ).  I sat with him on his porch one evening and really enjoyed the conversation.  That camp is the cat's ass and they are good people.  It's a shame people can't respect other people's property.

[Keeter]

"Volunteer Trail Ranger"   I like the sound of that..  Hey Matt, is Russ still a Ranger for the preserve? I owe him big, got me out of a jam once.