Eureka Pit and area closed

[lisa]

I can't go to these guys, with 30 or 40 names and tell them with any seriousness that is representative of all ATV riders.

  *S* actually Paul, yes you could. The trick is to be as slick as they are. Do you really think they represent a large segment of society? Nope... They take petitions to grocery stores, pet stores, festivals etc. to get names. Those folks don't actually belong to the society, they just signed a petition!

 It takes actual work though. Something I haven't had the time to do. Whenever I told my husband I wanted to go talk to the ATVers out here in ONF, he found something for us to be doing that day....(his way of telling me I am putting too much time into something that I am getting little support on, and spending way too much grocery money to do)

  You ride the forest? Take a pen and paper, or a petition and have everyone sign it that you come across....get names, phone numbers, email addresses, etc. It isn't hard, just time consuming....those 30-40 will add up..

[viper]

It is easy to put a name on a sheet and sign it --- 1,000 people where, with that many people you should have no problem getting it open again. Imagine if you charged those 1,000 people 5 dollars for fees, you would have enough to hire a lawyer to open it back up, but I forgot you already have a lawyer on staff.

1,000 peple with names on a piece of paper doesn't mean squatt

[stacktester]

I have been kinda absent from this site and riding lately because I've been busy with work. It seems that more and more areas are closing down and we haven't heard crap from our good friends at ONFA which I'm a member. Are the Big Scrub trails still a go or is that closing down too? I will not settle for the stupid a$$ trails up at Delancy. Nothing but a bunch of whooped out $hit. I thought we were getting a big loop from Big Scrub up to Delancy. NOTHING has been done for atv riders except inconveniences. I have only been going to ONF since 03 but it seems we won't have anything before it's over. I have never disagreed that there needs to be a handle on atv's in ONF. I've seen some f'ed up stuff in a few years. I just want what is fair, which is a good trail system that can handle the amount of riders we have. I, as others have paid for my green sticker to only hear over and over riding areas are closing. In the past year I bought my daughter a new 125 Grizzly and we just got our new toy hauler last weekend. Another 28k spent to play in this sport. Why can't Florida follow in the footsteps of other states who have provided riding areas. Rodman and Eureka would be great places to have courses like DTP has. Mike built several of them and people enjoy that. Those could have been the places to ride hard and get on your bike and the trails could be for fun riding. That's just my observation of the whole thing. I'm sure some will disagree with me. There is a lot of people spending money in this sport from bikes, clothes, campers and other things. These are jobs mofo!! which we need people working. Just give us some areas and let us have fun and then stfu.

[Prairie Master]

I have been kinda absent from this site and riding lately because I've been busy with work. It seems that more and more areas are closing down and we haven't heard crap from our good friends at ONFA which I'm a member. Are the Big Scrub trails still a go or is that closing down too? I will not settle for the stupid a$$ trails up at Delancy. Nothing but a bunch of whooped out $hit. I thought we were getting a big loop from Big Scrub up to Delancy. NOTHING has been done for atv riders except inconveniences. I have only been going to ONF since 03 but it seems we won't have anything before it's over. I have never disagreed that there needs to be a handle on atv's in ONF. I've seen some f'ed up stuff in a few years. I just want what is fair, which is a good trail system that can handle the amount of riders we have. I, as others have paid for my green sticker to only hear over and over riding areas are closing. In the past year I bought my daughter a new 125 Grizzly and we just got our new toy hauler last weekend. Another 28k spent to play in this sport. Why can't Florida follow in the footsteps of other states who have provided riding areas. Rodman and Eureka would be great places to have courses like DTP has. Mike built several of them and people enjoy that. Those could have been the places to ride hard and get on your bike and the trails could be for fun riding. That's just my observation of the whole thing. I'm sure some will disagree with me. There is a lot of people spending money in this sport from bikes, clothes, campers and other things. These are jobs mofo!! which we need people working. Just give us some areas and let us have fun and then stfu.

Well said 

[Busta Nutt]

What I don't get is Rodman and Eureka are barren landscape. Nothing there but sand. Nothing will grow there. The government dug those holes years ago to make those stupid dams that didn't accomplish anything and now I hear they want to tear them down. Closing those areas down only makes the areas a more private dump for the locals as far as I am concerned. I'm pissed off now, I spend a chunk of change there every couple weeks hell I might be supporting a couple families up there. The ONFA ain't doing nothing up there as far as I am concerned. In the almost a year since I bought that property up there I went from riding where I want for free to riding on crappola and having to pay for it. When I first went there you could ride all day and not see a soul now I'm scared to get out out of first gear for fear of a head on. Now I might as well be a trail guide at least twice a weekend I'm giving directions to riders. 

[stacktester]

I never thought I would say this but it seems ONFA "IS THE PROBLEM". I was led to believe that this group was going to form a relationship between off road enthusiasts and the forestry service. An informative group to let us know what we can do in the forest and what will be allowed to ride on. One stinkin ride was all that happened.
As far as the pits go I don't understand either. If they were under water all the time or supported some form of life I might understand why it closed. It's funny how the gov't tore the hell out of that place but we are going to be blamed now. That dam was the most unnatural thing to ever occur in that area.
I know a lot of people bashed Lisa but like I said before she is not all wrong. A little paranoid at times lol but she said what was coming. The thing that really really surprises me is some of the people on the board of ONFA are people I thought were for us. Maybe when they were asked to be on the board they were misinformed of the real deal. I see ONFA as a big smoke screen and guess what? The smoke is clearing and it did exactly what it was designed to do. I am not afraid to speak my peace on this. If Terry or Ida would like to discuss this in person to the people who joined this organization I would respectfully do so. I haven't been on this forum in a couple months and I come back to the same story but worse.

[viper]

ONFA is forest only, why not bash your florida atv assoc, where are they on this.. Isn't that what they are for. I keep hearing 1000 people but yet I don't hear anything...

[Anoriginal]

ONFA is forest only, why not bash your florida atv assoc, where are they on this.. Isn't that what they are for. I keep hearing 1000 people but yet I don't hear anything...

Yeah, why not bash an organization that is about three months old for something that was already complete before that organization came into being?

Smart Viper..real smart.

The real problem with this association is that they don't what to do. You got 30 people more than enough to get this open again, or is this too much of a challenge.

You sir are a complete and total jerk.   Care to discuss it in private? PM me and I'll give you my number so we can talk.

[Paul_S]

ONFA is forest only, why not bash your florida atv assoc, where are they on this.. Isn't that what they are for. I keep hearing 1000 people but yet I don't hear anything...

Why bash anyone?

We are not paid officials who decide what stays open, what closes or anything like that. We are unpaid volunteers, trying to help and further the sport of atv'ing. You think this seriously think that this is a bad thing....why?

If you think you can do a better job than the ONFA, Florida ATV Association or anyone else who puts their own time and money into trying to help other riders, then why don't you do it.

Just curious as to what is stopping you. What is it that you need, perhaps we can help you? I am being very serious here, unlike you or others who attack unpaid people trying to help, I will help. Let's see what you need to start your own organisations. I think it would be great...I am going to be so happy the day you put a few thousand of YOUR OWN dollars into a venture to improve life for others and some idiots sit there behind a keyboard criticizing you. It will be a good day. So Viper, what are you going to do to help Eureka...what is it that you need from us to assist in that goal?

And Viper, I can do math, obviously if 1,000 people pay $5.00 each you will have $ 5,000, but let me explain a few things. First until we are sure exactly what we are going to do and how we are going to do it, we will not charge anybody a penny. If after we have been around for a while and we need additional funding and decide to charge our members, they will be able to decide if they want to pay - based on performance, not promises.

Second off, we have money. If the problem was as easy as throwing $5,000 at a lawyer and asking him to get Eureka opened up, I would give him the money myself. The association is raising funds without the need for membership fees too, so money is not the problem at this time. Spending it wisely and correctly is the issue. How we decide to do that won't be discussed on an open forum like this neither. Too many people who want to see us fail, like yourself, read this.

Lisa, we are always open to help, and if you feel that you have something to offer the association, again I invite you to e-mail me. laptop@vol.com

[greenmachine]

Maybe there are spies among us for the anti crowd.

[Anoriginal]

Paul:

Lisa and Viper once again prove themselves by bringing zero to the table, all the while being hum drum and pointing fingers. They are the type of people that not only bring nothing constructive, but leave no legacy behind. They're a waste of time, effort and breath.

Don't sweat them. They do not matter in any sense of the word.

~ Matt

[Chuck_Norris]

No certain the outcome but I have been on the phone with Charlie Crist's office, Bill Nelsons office, Greenways and trails Office. currently talking to Jim Wolf, Mickey Tomlinson, and Buddy Meckenzie. I will post the out come of the conversations.

[psd]

Definetly a inside job!

[lisa]

Lisa, we are always open to help, and if you feel that you have something to offer the association, again I invite you to e-mail me. laptop@vol.com

 
  Already did Paul, read my last post again....

  Welcome back stacktester! Missed you..... 

[viper]

ONFA is forest only, why not bash your florida atv assoc, where are they on this.. Isn't that what they are for. I keep hearing 1000 people but yet I don't hear anything...

Yeah, why not bash an organization that is about three months old for something that was already complete before that organization came into being?

Smart Viper..real smart.

The real problem with this association is that they don't what to do. You got 30 people more than enough to get this open again, or is this too much of a challenge.

You sir are a complete and total jerk.   Care to discuss it in private? PM me and I'll give you my number so we can talk.

UUUHHHMMM let me get this straight you are saying that you knew Eurkea was going to close " that was already complete before that organization came into being?

ONFA is forest only, why not bash your florida atv assoc, where are they on this.. Isn't that what they are for. I keep hearing 1000 people but yet I don't hear anything...

Why bash anyone?

We are not paid officials who decide what stays open, what closes or anything like that. We are unpaid volunteers, trying to help and further the sport of atv'ing. You think this seriously think that this is a bad thing....why?

If you think you can do a better job than the ONFA, Florida ATV Association or anyone else who puts their own time and money into trying to help other riders, then why don't you do it.

Just curious as to what is stopping you. What is it that you need, perhaps we can help you? I am being very serious here, unlike you or others who attack unpaid people trying to help, I will help. Let's see what you need to start your own organisations. I think it would be great...I am going to be so happy the day you put a few thousand of YOUR OWN dollars into a venture to improve life for others and some idiots sit there behind a keyboard criticizing you. It will be a good day. So Viper, what are you going to do to help Eureka...what is it that you need from us to assist in that goal?

And Viper, I can do math, obviously if 1,000 people pay $5.00 each you will have $ 5,000, but let me explain a few things. First until we are sure exactly what we are going to do and how we are going to do it, we will not charge anybody a penny. If after we have been around for a while and we need additional funding and decide to charge our members, they will be able to decide if they want to pay - based on performance, not promises.

Second off, we have money. If the problem was as easy as throwing $5,000 at a lawyer and asking him to get Eureka opened up, I would give him the money myself. The association is raising funds without the need for membership fees too, so money is not the problem at this time. Spending it wisely and correctly is the issue. How we decide to do that won't be discussed on an open forum like this neither. Too many people who want to see us fail, like yourself, read this.

Lisa, we are always open to help, and if you feel that you have something to offer the association, again I invite you to e-mail me. laptop@vol.com

Paul S - "First until we are sure exactly what we are going to do and how we are going to do it, we will not charge anybody a penny." Interesting you don't know where this association is going, no goals, no objectives, just 1,000 people. As said before 1,000 mean nothing. In three months you should know exactly where and what this association is going to do. Betime you get organized there won't be any places to fight for.

So you don't need ones money you have enough.. Interesting. Someone once told me you never will have enough money, I guess you never ran your own business. What good is money if you don't where the organization is going, or what it will do. You have mentioned pay based on performance not promises, it looks like the colors of your organiztion should be black and blue. By that you may not get paid very much now will you.

BTW you don't seem to read very well you did not read ms lisa's post. Eurkea is the associations job, it is the association that is getting tired of seeing closed signs, accoring to your website, not me.

But I must admit today is your lucky day -- good luck to your association and to your rally, I hope the colors of black and blue don't show at the rally.

[Paul_S]

OK Sniper, intelligent post as usual. 

How would we know where we are going? We have not even had our first board meeting yet.

Of course we have goal and objectives, but how we specifically intend to achieve those is still to be decided.

Never have enough money....that is not true. It is quite possible to have enough money to meet your current goals and objectives.  Now if you are still deciding exactly what they are, it's impossible to budget how much money you are going to require. I have more than enough money to cover the Associations current requirements. As situations arise in the future and our needs change, them we will look at other ways to raise capital. We may even look for a sizeable donation from yourself.

Why would the colors of the organisation be black and blue? We have achieved an incredible amount in the last couple of months.  At least we all know the color of your organisation is going to be green, and it's not just the color of money. 

I read very well thank you, although sometimes it is hard to exactly understand the points you guys are making. I do look forward to your posts though, we all have a good laugh and it always causes a little jump in the numbers of people signing up.

I am curious why you continually dodge the question of how you intend to help, are you just a keyboard jockey?

Also what type of ATV do you ride, what style of riding do you prefer? Are any of the issues we are looking at going to affect you. You have to remember this association is for ATV users. We are going to do the best for us and unless you are an ATV rider it is hard for you to grasp that.

This is a problem many of us have with Lisa too, our understanding is she is for equal access for public land for everybody. I applaud what she does, she is perhaps a little too brash for my taste, but I am probably a little to soft for hers, but I respect anyone who is trying to help. But the truth is we could care less about what other groups want (unless they directly overlap something we are working on), that is for them to lobby for. We care what is being done for ATV riders and sometimes there are conflicts. We are already experiencing this now, in the short time we have been formed, we have already been offered opportunities to partner and developer a few things already. We are going to be looking at what is the best for our members only in these ventures.

[Quad32x]

Well said Paul. As for piper , thats just it. Someone that pipes off. Kind of like gnats around a dogs pecker if you ask me.

[viper]

No first board meeting – the organization knows where and what it is going to do before it even forms. Obviously you would not know about those things. What did you form this organization on??

What have you achieved in the last couple of months – nothing except organizing a rally that seems to be more of a free for all and that will probably give the association a black eye. Guest speakers are who ?? Newspapers are who??

See you missed the point again, reading is not the problem it is comprehending what you read, or is that word too big for you.

What issues are you looking at that are going to effect me or the ATV population. There was no first board meeting yet, three months and no first board meeting, it sounds like you don’t know what to do. Do you even know who is on the board. With that how is the association going decide issues, remember no board meeting.

Now this association is about just ATVers before it was all about all off road riders, you have changed your tune. Is the rest of the OHV world too good for you, they know who the organization is and don’t want to become part of it. What do you think??

We could care less what other groups want, but won’t that grow your organization?? So you don’t want other groups to help, that is interesting.

Who is going to look at what is best for the venture, board hasn’t been formed. It looks like this association is what you want, forget the rest of the OHV world. Partner with you sure, remember words are cheap.

My riding doesn’t make a difference, keyboard jockey doesn’t make a difference, I have nothing to prove, only your association does.

[Paul_S]

You just keep avoiding the questions. You are not an ATV'er are you?

What makes you so important that you think we have to prove anything to you. I only answer you as it helps our membership grow. So you are useful for that purpose, granted.

Dude, why do you keep trying to pick apart everything, buy a playstaion or something and go zap some aliens, you could pretend you are saving the world.

Our little association is rolling along very nicely, far better than we had hoped. If you can do better, good luck, you go Tiger Look forward to your progress reports, me I choose to keep a lid on what we are doing so little idiots with nothing better to do can't sit and destroy the work we are doing. You can believe me not, I doubt you will find more than 6 people who care what you believe, I am certainly not one of them.

If you do go with the playstation idea, game fly is a great place to rent games.

[greenmachine]

IMHO.....Bart & Lisa are picking you guys apart & putting up walls for the association to bang their heads on. They will keep slamming you guys as long as you let them. They always take the pessimistic side of things & the association could sh*t $50 dollar bills in their pool & they would b*tch for $100's. I beleive they are lurking on this board & using all the info against this group for personal reasons. Taking posts out of context & forwarding their "take" on it to the people who will shut us down. It is easy to be paranoid from reading all of this crap & seeing closures happening right before group rides. I say either bring them on into the association & make them work with it as commited members or ban their IP address & be done with them totally!!!!! I beleive lisa has had some valuable input, but bart(aka viper) is worthless & is always trying to stir sh*t! Either get on the bus or get the heII off!!!
IMHO it appears that things are getting roadblocks every step of the way.

On the other hand, I could just be wayyy too paranoid, but if it quacks like a duck, its usuall a duck.

[Quad32x]

IMHO.....Bart & Lisa are picking you guys apart & putting up walls for the association to bang their heads on. They will keep slamming you guys as long as you let them. They always take the pessimistic side of things & the association could sh*t $50 dollar bills in their pool & they would b*tch for $100's. I beleive they are lurking on this board & using all the info against this group for personal reasons. Taking posts out of context & forwarding their "take" on it to the people who will shut us down. It is easy to be paranoid from reading all of this crap & seeing closures happening right before group rides. I say either bring them on into the association & make them work with it as commited members or ban their IP address & be done with them totally!!!!! I beleive lisa has had some valuable input, but bart(aka viper) is worthless & is always trying to stir sh*t! Either get on the bus or get the heII off!!!
IMHO it appears that things are getting roadblocks every step of the way.

On the other hand, I could just be wayyy too paranoid, but if it quacks like a duck, its usuall a duck.

I agree 100%.

[Paul_S]

IMHO.....Bart & Lisa are picking you guys apart & putting up walls for the association to bang their heads on. They will keep slamming you guys as long as you let them. They always take the pessimistic side of things & the association could sh*t $50 dollar bills in their pool & they would b*tch for $100's. I beleive they are lurking on this board & using all the info against this group for personal reasons. Taking posts out of context & forwarding their "take" on it to the people who will shut us down. It is easy to be paranoid from reading all of this crap & seeing closures happening right before group rides. I say either bring them on into the association & make them work with it as commited members or ban their IP address & be done with them totally!!!!! I beleive lisa has had some valuable input, but bart(aka viper) is worthless & is always trying to stir sh*t! Either get on the bus or get the heII off!!!
IMHO it appears that things are getting roadblocks every step of the way.

On the other hand, I could just be wayyy too paranoid, but if it quacks like a duck, its usuall a duck.

If the membership join up rate did not go up, every time we respond to them, I would do what the ONFA do and ignore them, but if someone does not mind making themselves look like the way he does, then who am I to stop him. Sniper has done great work in bringing the association up and making more people aware of it. As to working with him, I seriously doubt our board would consider this, that would just destroy our membership base, now if they started their own association and wanted to work alongside us, that might work.

I have a couple of minutes to answer his rantings, so they are not doing anything to harm us, in fact between the laughs he provides and the bumping of the association topics, I look forward to reading what words he is trying to jumble together, but I feel that attacking people who are trying to help, just discourages other groups from trying something and the Playstation option would be best.

Perhaps we could even arrange to buy it.

[Joedirt]

It is painfully obvious Viper and Lisa are full of crap.....They claimed to be the All Knowing On our side people when it came to the Forest and surround areas...Lisa even used the term Expertise. We have a case of 2 overzelous idiots trying to pick the Association apart. Leave them to their idiotic ramblings. I can not stand  people that offer nothing but negative....Lisa , Viper...Put the Natty Ice down...and sober up.....


They have nothing to offer...and Probably are working against us....

[Quad32x]

working against us.

This I believe.

[Joedirt]

working against us.

This I believe.

It is Obvious...and quite frankly I am pissed...seeing you folks Wasting such energy on people like them.....Grizz and the ONFA speaks we listen....Dreth and The Association has something to say..we listen...

Who are they and why should we care?