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Author Topic: Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge-it just doesn't matter  (Read 2351 times)
backinsaddle
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« on: March 29, 2007, 10:38:36 PM »

I copies this from another forum, quite interesting, if true:



This is from a post on the DTR. It was posted by Gary-KJ6Q. Whoever was the author of this article took the time to do some major research on the subject. I guess it just goes to show we never really know who owns who anymore!

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(1) Isuzu owned Subaru, and sold out to Fuji Heavy Industries, which was then jointly acquired by British Leyland and Ford.

(2) BL & Ford then spun off Fuji/Subaru into an independent company. Big mistake. Ford bought BL, and owned Isuzu outright. Big mistake.

(3) Isuzu entered into a joint development partnership with Navistar International. Stock interests were traded. Eventually, one of the projects would be a 7.3L V-8 light-duty diesel. Guess who picked that one up for use in its pickup trucks?

(4) Navistar also had entered into a joint development partnership with Caterpillar. One of the projects was a direct injection system that would be picked up by -- Ford. And Isuzu mediums.

(5) Caterpillar owned a large chunk of Bosch. GM owned another big chunk. And so did a third major player -- Daimler Benz. Bosch was the primary developer of Caterpillar's direct injection system. But GM forced Caterpillar to turn over its share of Bosch, and then forced Bosch to abandon direct injection in favor of developing an "improved" generation rotary injection pumps. The initial designs for those pumps had been brought to GM by former Isuzu engineers working for Ford.

(6) What did Caterpillar receive in return for giving GM its stock in Bosch? GM's stock in Cummins. Ford then sold its small share of Cummins stock because of antitrust regulations in the U.S. Caterpillar, on the other hand, avoided antitrust problems by a joint incorporation agreement with Cummins under a Brazilian operation named Inquardo, Ltd.

(7) Eventually almost all Cummins manufacturing and design were moved over to that part of the "house". However, that move proved so efficient and profitable that Cummins began to eat into significant markets for Caterpillar, so Caterpillar merged its manufacturing and design base with Cummins in Brazil, leaving skeleton operations only in places like Peoria, Illinois. Cummins management largely pushed out Caterpillar management after several years.

(Cool With me so far? Caterpillar owns Cummins, but Cummins has effectively "eaten" Caterpillar. In Brazil. Here, they're separate, of course, but it's only the purposes of adhering to American commercial law. But wait. There's more.

(9) Ford had some disasterous capitalization-and-flow problems after the overseas buying spree of the early nineties, during which it acquired British Leyland, Isuzu, Fuji, part of Fiat, and parts of other companies. Ford was forced to sell Isuzu to maintain cash flow beyond the U.S. Who did they sell Isuzu to? Navistar International. Along with certain manufacturing and sourcing arrangements. Navistar hoped to go global again, as in the grand old days of International Harvester.

(10) But Navistar couldn't hold on to Isuzu either, what with a $2 billion dollar loss in 1995, and eventually sold its controlling interest in the company to Daimler Benz.

(11) Isuzu was having its own problems, since its global market share in light and medium diesels was rapidly shrinking. The cause of the problem was Cummins, which, after swallowing Caterpillar - in Brazil - had also acquired NGT, Tapei Technologies, Allison Canada, and Nansen-Renault, all in hostile takeovers, all manufacturers of diesel technologies outside of the U.S. So, Cummins had effectively cornered the controlling share of the global market outside of North America and Western Europe. (Why do you think the splashgate at their website is so heavily global?)

(12) After nine months of negotiation, Cummins and its subsidiary, Allison Canada, entered into a joint development arrangement with Isuzu, owned by Daimler, and with the surviving U.S. corporation, Allison, which was at that point partly owned by GM. Cummins, however, dominated the partnership, and eventually managed to assume Daimler's and GM's interests in Isuzu and and Allison.

(13) In the case of Isuzu, Cummins has an equal partnership with Daimler, which, of course, has also acquired Chrysler Corporation. That's why, when Ford offered Cummins a billion-dollar package to manfacture medium and light truck diesels for its vehicles in 2001, Cummins said no. Again, for antitrust reasons, a public holding company was set up to handle Isuzu as a separate corporate entity. The name of the company is Benz Transporation Technologies, of San Paulo, Brazil. BTT also is a major owner of the Benz division of Daimler Chrysler, which manufacturers most of the diesel engines in Europe. In the case of Allison, Cummins controls it through a series of holding companies ending with Inquardo, Ltd., the orginal Caterpillar-Cummins creation in Brazil. Cummins also controls a fair-size block of stock in GM, through the ownership of a cartel of South Korean and Thai banks and investment groups.

(14) Navistar has continued its free-fall in spite of its partnership with Ford in the light-duty diesel area. Three weeks ago, after the implications of labor troubles, a rise in basic resource costs, and the disasterous introduction of the 6.0L PSD had become clear, Navistar's financial arrangements with Citibank and Manufacturers B&T collapsed. Both banks arranged to float the company infrastructural loans if it would agree to a merger with -- are you ready for this? -- Inquardo, Ltd. As of last Thursday, Cummins owns 67% of Navistar through Inquardo.

Right now, Cummins makes all diesels in all pickup trucks sold in the United States. Cummins makes 73% of all diesels in all trucks sold in the world. The board of directors at Inquardo -- which isn't listed on any stock exchange -- includes 9 Cummins execs, 2 Caterpillar execs, and one Wells Fargo Bank exec. The CEO and CFO are also Cummins vice presidents. And there are Cummins execs on the boards of Daimler Chrysler, General Motors, Toyota, and Honda America. Ford, the holdout, has not been doing very well.

So it isn't a question of who owns Cummins. It's a question of who Cummins owns, and who's next. Could be Ford. Could be DC. Could be both. Ford Viper, anyone? Mercedes Mustang with a 6.0L Shelby Diesel and a Holset twin turbo?

And some have claimed that the new Navistar/Ford 6.0L is Cummins' revenge for the Bosch VP44"

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Here is the direct link to the tread for those interested: http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=31042
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MadMudder
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2007, 10:56:56 PM »

I think that about ends all diesel truck debates.... Boxer Owie
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2007, 08:31:32 PM »

I would like to know where he got his info from. Sorry but he did not post a link for it. Thats bull. I can tell you that Ford owned mazda (not isuzu) in the 80s and still do. A Ford courier was a Mazda truck and now a mazda truck is the same a a Ford ranger. Now GM owns Isuzu and has since the 80s,  The Chevy LUV was an isuzu PUP and the it changed to Chevy building the isuzu hombre with the S-10 chassis. That tells you GM owned isuzu not ford.
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2007, 09:27:55 PM »

I would like to know where he got his info from. Sorry but he did not post a link for it. Thats bull. I can tell you that Ford owned mazda (not isuzu) in the 80s and still do. A Ford courier was a Mazda truck and now a mazda truck is the same a a Ford ranger. Now GM owns Isuzu and has since the 80s,  The Chevy LUV was an isuzu PUP and the it changed to Chevy building the isuzu hombre with the S-10 chassis. That tells you GM owned isuzu not ford.
Thats what I was thinking too.
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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2007, 09:29:50 PM »

I would like to know where he got his info from. Sorry but he did not post a link for it. Thats bull. I can tell you that Ford owned mazda (not isuzu) in the 80s and still do. A Ford courier was a Mazda truck and now a mazda truck is the same a a Ford ranger. Now GM owns Isuzu and has since the 80s,  The Chevy LUV was an isuzu PUP and the it changed to Chevy building the isuzu hombre with the S-10 chassis. That tells you GM owned isuzu not ford.
Well lets see your sources or links or whatever he didnt have. Because your saying something completly diffrent then what he said. So lets see why your right and he is wrong.
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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2007, 09:39:02 PM »

GM owns a share of ISUZU and has for quite some time. The drive train on all Rodeos is GM built exclusive for isuzu , the ASCENDER is  just a Trailblazer. And yes an HOMBRE is also on the s-10 chassis, in fact you can buy Hombre parts at your local GM dealer, they have the cataloging.
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2007, 09:03:05 AM »

GM owns a share of ISUZU and has for quite some time. The drive train on all Rodeos is GM built exclusive for isuzu , the ASCENDER is  just a Trailblazer. And yes an HOMBRE is also on the s-10 chassis, in fact you can buy Hombre parts at your local GM dealer, they have the cataloging.


This would be correct. We have actually serviced a hombre. Take a look at a mazda truck and then take a look at the ranger. Look under the hood also because it has the same engine and trans. I work in sales at a chevy dealer so I would know. The other thing is that the duramax diesel is an isuzu built engine with bosch fuel system and the tranny is an allison. Go back to the 80 and you will see that the manufacturers were reversed. I have a luv, the isuzu pup was the same. I also had a courier and that was the same as the mazda.


Here is a link for you that shows a chevy rebadged from a isuzu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_LUV

And here is a link that shows the isuzu hombre rebadged from an S-10

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isuzu_Hombre

This one shows the courier built by mazda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Courier

And this one shows mazda built by ford

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger
« Last Edit: March 31, 2007, 09:14:34 AM by yunt2ride » Logged

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