ONF accident

[kickflip42585]

AintSkeered & stacktester : I actually thought that everyone on here was a descent person. If I happen to have an accident with you, I'd like to think you'd be a nice enough person to understand the word "accident" and if anyone is hurt, by not helping them your just a worthless human. Leave me on the side of a trail broken down and bleeding and I would hunt you down. It is ridiculous to be that ignorant to leave a person in pain and suffering. I don't see how you can sleep at night. Apparently your in the wrong sport, you should try and join UFC take some of that anger out elsewhere. Careless is one thing, but accidents are another...learn the difference. If you feel the need to "Beat I disagree to sleep" go ahead, all I know is that you will get what is coming your way. I thought they had a law against allowing the ignorant to breed so we didn't end up with people like this.....

[stacktester]

Bounty that was well put.

Kickflip I may have sounded harsh. I would not leave anyone hurt as you say. I have had many people come flying up on me at Big Scrub on the unmarked trails and at Delancey where you ought to know better. When they almost hit you they look at you like dude man you're in my way. I had some guys ride up like that once and I asked them why would you knowingly fly around a corner like that. The guy was on a 2 stroke bike and took off spinning sand on my daughter and me. When I saw him back at Big Scrub I went over to him and he said hit me dude I'm 16. Now who is giving this a bad name. My intention was not to hit him. I guess I'll just mount a huge push bar like a ranch hand bumber on my 4 wheeler and we'll call it even.

My advice to parents who ride at ONF is to not let your kids ride out front. There are riders who could care less who they hit. I'm sure there are plenty who do care but many don't.

This is exactly the reason why I hardly go to ONF anymore. I used to go at least 2 weekends a month. There is no reason why the trails can't be one way or at least widen them.

[AintSkeered]

This is simply about maturity and differences of opinion. Your insults and name calling only fuel my opinion. And, it's a mistake to believe that just because I don't respond in the same manner that it's any sign of weakness. I assure you that my opinion is shared by many out on the trails. I never said I'd leave you out there to die, quite the opposite. I said that I'd report it immediately(and let the authorities deal with it) .All I'm asking is for you to grow up and let others enjoy ONF!

[AlterEgo]

My intention in posting this accident was hopefully to have as many people read about it as possible in hopes that the next time someone might be thinking about flying around a blind corner, they remember that someone's kid might be waiting on the other side enjoying a ride with their family.

There are no "official" rules about speed in the forest other than to suggest you keep the speed down for safety, and definitely nobody to enforce it if they did have rules. So it comes down to maturity and common sense. If you want to risk your safety, fine, but don't do it at the expense of mine or my family's.

As far as helping the guy, it was never a question. He made a stupid mistake and is paying for it, and I'll guess next time he thinks twice. Luckily nobody was "seriously" injured or killed, just equipment. Had my son been injured, I'm not sure my reaction would have been the same.

ONF is a great resource. I've been once, and would like to go again. But, much more of that kind of crap and they'll just flat shut it down to any OHV traffic. Some of the more mature riders should lead and teach the less mature by example. If we can police ourselves, we keep a place to ride.

[USFfishing]

When I am riding ONF and I hear anything coming up ahead I always make my way off the trail.  Better safe than sorry.  I wouldnt wish an accident on anyone up there.  We are all there to do what we love. 

I hope both parties in this accident keep using the trail system.  ONF is a great place to share.

[Yota]

I haven't been out there in some time with this new trail system, but its a accident, ONF is not for any specific rider, I can recall group rides with lots of people on this site probably 4 years ago, thats  what we did go fast, we used to have group oriented speed rides in ONF, just as well we had family rides for just cruising around, this sport has so many different styles its getting crazy, but its not due to any one thing, its on everyone, CYA thats what it comes down to, you play in a unpredictable surronding environment, whether it being a huge ute  or a sport quad or who knows a tree falling, you never know, so dont blame it on no one, its a accident, as far as making it one way trails, that was the thing everyone was fighting against a couple years ago, but like I had mentioned I haven't been out there in a while, so its probably different now, just be happy eneryone is fine, toys always can be replaced

[AlterEgo]

Calling it an accident does not mean that someone isn't responsible for that accident. You are right that ONF is for all riders, but that doesn't mean my son or anyone else for that matter should have to shoulder a risk by riding the trails there so someone else can fly around a blind corner at 30+ mph. I don't care if you go 60 and jump off into the woods to see how far you get before you hit a tree if that's what you're into, but don't do anything that puts other's (who are also have ther right to enjoy the forest) safety at risk.

And, this isn't a sport quad vs. ute quad vs. utv issue. It's a common sense, safety issue - so the trails can continue to be used by all riders.

[1FasterBlaster]

   It's apparent there are a lot of different views when it comes to different kinds of riding.The same aspect happens when people drive cars and have accidents...it happens.
  You guys that sound like you would hurt someone further for having an accident, your not very smart.I haul azz, that's why I have a sport quad.Everyone knows there are people in the trails doing it.The trails are for us also, not just cruisers.Noone wants to see anyone hurt, we're just doing what we think is fun, as well as you are.
   With that attitude, you won't find very many people to ride with.I sincerely hope you don't react that way.Yes there are ignorant riders that don't care, but don't pass that judgement on everyone.
   Ride safe, and always try to have fun...but always be aware!!

[AlterEgo]

From the ONF rules and regulations page:

"It is UNLAWFUL to operate under the influence of drugs or alcohol or in such a manner that endangers the safety of others."

"Riding fast is hazardous and not recommended."

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/florida/recreation/oca-OHV/index_OHV_Rules.shtml

[1FasterBlaster]

   Of course it's not recommended for everyone.Not everyone knows how to ride that way.We know it's danderous, but mostly to us.
   Like I said, noone is trying to endanger anyone,that's just the way we like to ride.Most of us have the experience and the reflex to avoid incident from happening.And yes, there are a lot of people that shouldn't be going that fast cause they don't know how to ride.
   You can't say it's speed that hurts, cause I've seen kids going 10 mph fall off and brake their arms.I honestly don't know why anyone should get worked up over another incident.They have always happenned, and they always will...you can't stop life from going round.If I was so worried about my little girl getting hurt, she wouldn't have a quad.All you can do is hope nothing ever happens.Enjoy life...ride fast, but safe!!

[AintSkeered]

The same aspect DOES NOT happen when people drive cars! NO WAY! Unlike ONF, there are traffic laws which prevent speeding around blind curves into oncoming traffic. I'm here to tell you that if you cannot respect the lives of others enough to refrain from such selfish actions in ONF, YOU are a threat to others, YOU will cause increased anti-OHV legislation and YOU should know that you are at risk for a civil lawsuit if you injure someone in ONF. So, if it happens, you'd better hope that the person you hit is ignorant of these facts. To all responsible adults out there, it's your legal responsibility to immediately call law enforcement whenever an OHV injury accident occurs in ONF(I'm certain it's stated in their literature). Let law enforcement provide prompt and effective first aid, let them document the incident and obtain witness testimony, etc.. Then, when the assailant will not pay for property and bodily damages, sue them.

[1FasterBlaster]

  Don't try to distort what I'm saying man.Your trying to make me sound reckless and I'm not.You can't lie and tell me you don't ride fast.Noone here has disregard for others safety,I have two kids of my own.
   I said I ride fast and watch what I'm doing.Now your trying to sound like a Saint!!If I ever hurt anyone, I would accept responsibility and I would want somone to do the same.I meant cars have accidents as well as we do...even with rules.So speak with intelligence.I'm not argueing with these incidents.They happen, point blank, and there's nothing you can do except being careful when you ride...I DO!!

[1FasterBlaster]

   And since the new trail sytem started,I don't ride O.N.F..It's a big problem waiting to happen.So be careful with any situation, accidents happen with or without rules being followed.I'm glad I can say in all my years of riding,I've never...hit anyone.So I let my record speak for itself!!

[qt314nfla]

I understand that you are 'supposed' to report any accidents on ATV's.  But do you know why?  It is so they can document how many incidents happen each year on ATV's and to what age group.  Why?  So they (the ppl that don't ride) can institute more rules and regulations.  I am all for appropriate bikes for age/size.  The current rules concerning this are outdated and a large 12yo on a 90cc bike would be dangerous in itself.

There need to be rules and regulations for most activities.  However, the current rules, regulations, and lack of acceptance of our sport are due to the statistics they currently have.  There's no way in hell I'm going to report any incident to the government and give them more leverage to tell me what size bike I can ride or to close down the current areas.

Trust me if every trampoline accident had to be reported they would be illegal also.  You think this is funny?  I am a chiropractor, I rarely see kids in bike, rollerblade accidents.  But I have them all the time from trampoline accidents.  Yet no one tells the parents they need to get rid of their trampoline or that they don't love the lives of their kids because they are allowed to play on them.  It is the narrow minded predjudice of ppl against motorcycles.  Fall of a bike, horse, rollerblades everyone says get back on.  Fall off a bike, everyone says sell it.

Why give them more ammo.  In addition, currently there have only been I believe 2 lawsuits in the last 30 years regarding ATV accidents.  Bring in lawsuits and it will be darn near impossible to get any area to ride.  We know our sport has certain inherent risks.  The only risks you can limit are the way you ride yourself.  You can not limit anyone else just as you can't control their actions.  Most of us as riders accept responsibility of the risk we put our family in when we go riding.  Reporting everything is not the way to get more riding areas.

**off my soap box

[gearhead400]

All I'm saying is that if you selfishly race around a blind corner and hit me, my only responsibility is to report the accident. I'm under no obligation to support your behavior by helping you. As far as I'm concerned, that's no accident, it's careless, reckless negligence and I'd definitely press/file civil and/or any other charges I possibly could against you. That kind of recklessness is going to cause increased anti-OHV legislation. MX tracks are for those who feel the need for speed and ONF is not an MX track. Not my rules!

well i agree with you there but i think you came off a little strong, at least to me. I'd want my damages paid for but i wouldnt make the person suffer and limp back, id give them a hand so they'd be more inclined to cooperate.

This story is one of the main reasons i dont go to ONF anymore, because i use to love flying through the open trails out there and not having to worry about running into anyone. Now you have to creep around corners and keep your bike at slower speeds and thats just not fun on a sport bike. THAT, and theres no fun trails anymore.

[GrlNextDoor]

I understand that you are 'supposed' to report any accidents on ATV's.  But do you know why?  It is so they can document how many incidents happen each year on ATV's and to what age group.  Why?  So they (the ppl that don't ride) can institute more rules and regulations.  I am all for appropriate bikes for age/size.  The current rules concerning this are outdated and a large 12yo on a 90cc bike would be dangerous in itself.

There need to be rules and regulations for most activities.  However, the current rules, regulations, and lack of acceptance of our sport are due to the statistics they currently have.  There's no way in hell I'm going to report any incident to the government and give them more leverage to tell me what size bike I can ride or to close down the current areas.

Trust me if every trampoline accident had to be reported they would be illegal also.  You think this is funny?  I am a chiropractor, I rarely see kids in bike, rollerblade accidents.  But I have them all the time from trampoline accidents.  Yet no one tells the parents they need to get rid of their trampoline or that they don't love the lives of their kids because they are allowed to play on them.  It is the narrow minded predjudice of ppl against motorcycles.  Fall of a bike, horse, rollerblades everyone says get back on.  Fall off a bike, everyone says sell it.

Why give them more ammo.  In addition, currently there have only been I believe 2 lawsuits in the last 30 years regarding ATV accidents.  Bring in lawsuits and it will be darn near impossible to get any area to ride.  We know our sport has certain inherent risks.  The only risks you can limit are the way you ride yourself.  You can not limit anyone else just as you can't control their actions.  Most of us as riders accept responsibility of the risk we put our family in when we go riding.  Reporting everything is not the way to get more riding areas.

**off my soap box

Unfortunately QT, if there is an ambulance involved, the police are as well.  When my daughter was hurt at holopaw, the cops met my husband at the gate and would not let him leave until he gave them a report.  Our fault, we accepted responsibility but, they still insisted on filing it.

[AintSkeered]

You're asking us to trust you to make restitution after you've injured us or destroyed our property? Can you repair your victim's ruptured spleen, blindness, para/quadraplegia, etc? Just slow down in turns, please.
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0261/ch0261.htm
Read FS 261.12, section 5e. I'll modify this post to add additional laws which OHV operators are required to obey in ONF.

[qt314nfla]

Grlnxtdr, you are correct in that if the police or authorities get involved they will have to file a report.  I'm just saying I try to avoid putting things on the record any time it's possible.

I agree that if you help the injured rider out even if they were at fault and you can keep your cool, the injured are more likely to cooperate.  It also teaches the kids better values in helping ppl out even when they are wrong.  It opens up a great discussion between them on making decisions.

I would like to see more flags on bikes.  I initially hated the idea but after riding a few places where they are mandatory was very happy to have one.  It's very easy to see ppl coming the other direction and at what speed they are coming w/ a flag.  I use mine every time I ride now after seeing how cheap this safety option is.

[AintSkeered]

The way to avoid law enforcement getting involved is to "Ride 4 Keeps".
Keep it safe
Keep it legal
Keep on trails
Keep the privilege

[novadave]

Loud pipes save lives.

[stacktester]

Loud pipes save lives.

Brilliant baby Brilliant

[1FasterBlaster]

   Everyone will have their own opinions on how things should work.Like she says, "All you can do is ride the best you know how."And you should trust people first until they give you a reason not to.
   If you get into an incident with injuries, then yes, the authorities may need to be involved.But if it's just damage, a promisary note with a signature does hold up in court.Ask any Lawyer.If you feel the need to do so.
   But you need to take a Chill Pill first!!

[1FasterBlaster]

   And yes, loud pipes do help!!

[stacktester]

I was just kidding lol. I hope all is resolved in these situations. I love ONF but don't like what has happened recently.

[stacktester]

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT ALL OF US ARE BEING INMATURE GOING ON AND ON. WE'RE GROWN UPS FOR GODS SAKE WHO LOVE THE SAME HOBBY. SORRY FOR BEING SARCASTIC IN MY POST. WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO HAPPEN IS FOR US ALL TO BE SAFE AND RESPECT EACH OTHER!!!!!! PERIOD. WE ALL KNOW WHAT CAN HAPPEN FLYING AROUND CORNERS AND NOT STOPPING AT ROAD CROSSINGS.

MOST OF US HAVE SOMEBODY WHO NEEDS US TO COME HOME WHEN THE DAY IS DONE. ALL THE CROSS WORDS SPENT ON HERE COULD HAVE BEEN USED IN A POSITIVE WAY. THIS IS WHAT THE ANTI'S WANT IS FOR US TO FIGHT AMONG OURSELVES.

INSTEAD OF SAYING WHO IS TO BLAME LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN DO SO THERE IS NO REASON TO BE A BLAME IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE ALL HAVE THAT SMALL PLACE TO RIDE DOWN THERE AND WE NEED TO KEEP IT. MAYBE WHEN THE BIG SCRUB TRAIL AND ALL THAT IS TIED IN WE CAN PROTEST THAT SOME ONE WAY TRAILS BE IN PLACE. MAYBE TAKE THE ORGANIZERS OF THE TRAIL SYSTEM TO DURHAMTOWN TO SHOW THEM HOW GOOD MIKE HAS DONE UP THERE. HE MADE IT WHERE IT'S WELL MARKED AND YOU ALWAYS KNOW HOW TO GET BACK TO CAMP.

COME ON, LET'S QUIT BEING 2 YEAR OLDS AND FIGURE OUT WHAT CAN BE DONE. NOTHING IS GOING TO GET BETTER UNLESS WE HELP EACH OTHER. HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE GIVEN SOME TIME TO THIS TRAIL SYSTEM? I THINK WE SHOULD MEET AMONG OURSELVES AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO. HOPEFULLY THE BOARD OF ONFA WILL SHOW TO SUGGEST SOME WAYS WE CAN MAKE IT BETTER AND KEEP IT BETTER. THAT WAY WE CAN TEST THEM TO SEE IF THEY ARE REALLY FOR US. SUPPOSEDLY THEY ARE THE LIASON BETWEEN US AND THE FORESTRY SERVICE. LET'S SEE IF THEY HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE THIS GO OFF.