Honda 350 rancher "smoking"

[GrizzlyGator]

 , So my sons 2005 Honda Rancher is smoking pretty bad, we ride a LOT, typical riding would be trail 70%, mud 25%, and some water emursion5% sometimes up to the seat! So thats what is been through for 2 years. Honda dealer said probally needs a new top end and maybe even total job top and bottom, i don't totally disagree with him, we do ride hard! Anybody got other ideas or suggestions? He said $800.00 for top end and $1500.00 total, is that resonable? just wondering before I unload it on him!       

[xr100racer]

NOOOO, do not give your dealer $1500

theres no reason you would need bottom end work done unless its making a racket or not running at all. you probably just need new rings. piston rings are about $30 and can be installed yourself without even pulling the whole motor. look around and you can find a good mechanic that will do the job for under $300. even if you need a fresh bore with a + .5mm piston or something will be under $150 for that

i know a guy near me that could probably do the job for $200 total but your really far up there on the map

[GrizzlyGator]

NOOOO, do not give your dealer $1500

theres no reason you would need bottom end work done unless its making a racket or not running at all. you probably just need new rings. piston rings are about $30 and can be installed yourself without even pulling the whole motor. look around and you can find a good mechanic that will do the job for under $300. even if you need a fresh bore with a + .5mm piston or something will be under $150 for that/quote]


Thanks JohnF, thats the kinda info I'm looking for, at least I have some ammo to go looking around with, the dealer did say he would have to break into it before he could really say what was going on, the diagnossis right now is only a guess, he also said bottom end probably doesn't need anywork, but he did say that depended on how long it had been smoking !

[xr100racer]

no matter whats wrong with it, its gunna be at least twice expensive at the dealer. find a local atv shop in your area, but make sure to look around for the best price. atv shops vary greatly in what they charge. it wouldnt be unlikely for one shop to charge $700 for a job and another shop charge $300, ive had experieces like that before while shopping around.

when you ask them how much its gunna cost, is they start talking about "oh i dunno, that could take about 5hrs and then we would have to get the parts from the dealer and its very labor intensive, blah blah blah,,,,just walk away

you want to find a place where they know whats wrong and wont bs you, they tell you the exact price its gunna cost just by looking at it. you could probably tell on your bike if you only need rings or possibly more work just be hearing it run

[Toomey]

There is ways to diagnose the smoking.  I don't know about four strokes, so we'll need to get a good four stroke guy in here to hear what he has to say.  But things like, does it smoke only when it's cold, or the whole time?  Does it smoke more on when slowing down or hitting the gas?  Because it's either a bad valve guide seal or the rings.  I agree that smoking is probably only a topend problem.  I can't see how the bottom end would encourage smoking.  The could even do a compression test or leak-down test to see if the rings are in good shape, and they could focus just on the head.  I'm not an expert in this stuff, but mechanics with some knowledge should be able to go about this a little smarter than, "We'll see when we get in there."

[xr100racer]

well he said it was smoking preety bad so its probably the rings. valve seals would only smoke on start up and then it would go away. and its not white smoke because its air cooled and its not black smoke because even if it was running really rich it wouldnt be smoking "pretty bad"

so i think its safe to say its the rings based on what he has said so far

do you experience a loss of power?

check the compression just to make sure, should be low if its smoking like this

[MedicMudder]

Yeah I pretty much agree. I send you a PM.

[GrizzlyGator]

let me add something here, Its only been smoking the last two to three times weve takin it out, It starts and run great, there really is no other symptoms than just the smoke, no bad sounds or anything like that. I was riding behind him when I first noticed it, you really could'nt see the smoke but it smelt like he*L you know smoky gassy smell??? Anyway the dealer said not to ride it smoking like that because it could wind up getting to the bottom end very soon if not already.

[xr100racer]

check your oil

probably low

[MadMudder]

What color is the smoke?

[GrizzlyGator]

I did check the oil and its was VERY LOW! I added a quart had my son ride it around the house it smoked like crazy....."White smoke"

[xr100racer]

it probably looks white but its definatly blue, look closely

[GrizzlyGator]

trying to describe a color is like trying to describe how something smells , that being said you could call it bluish / white?

[06 BaNsHeE]

Have you drained your oil and put new oil?My 03 rancher was smoking for a bit but I drained the oil and put new oil ,oil filter,Air Filter,and Magnetic Drain Plug and it stopped.But It was definately the oil.Atleast try that first b4 you give your stealership any money.

[arod]

 if you are riding that 'hard'. start a maintenance routine with shorter intervals. that motor is oil/air cooled so the oil is pretty much done when it is time to change it.  change your oil and filter, then change just the oil, then the oil and filter again. basicaly two oil changes in the 'normal' maintenace schedule but only one filter.  white smoke can also be water in your oil, as you stated it is submerged sometimes. even though you change the oil after it has been under water all the water is not drained. that water will be burnt like steam(white smoke,not blue-white,burned-oil smelling smoke).

[BlackMudd]

well i dnt know but when you figure it out plz let me know because mines is doing the same... lol

[cr500pro]

1st i would do a compression test.but im pretty sure u need a top end job.to do it correctly,ive  bore the cyl.add a new piston,rings,gaskets,valve seals,valve springs,valve keepers,new valves and valve seats,new cam shaft and timing chain & sprocket..and since ur gonna have ur top end opened up, this is the time 2 consider if u want a bit more HP.an add  an after market camshaft n high compression piston..in which u will see an increase in power..i did that same  top end job to an old 1986 honda atc 350x i had and it would spank honda trx 400 n suzuki z400's ,in top end n in mx tracks,like a baby.i did the labor myself,in parts i spent about $600 in parts..if u ride it hard a u say,i would not be cheap in doing ur top end...