ATV Safety Course Starting April 14th. NOW WE HAVE A SCHEDULE

[Prairie Master]

good because we dont need any stupid laws made up by people that more than likely dont even ride atv's and think they know how to solve a problem. the parents should be responsible for there kids and what they ride. all i see is everyday the state wants more money for nothing.they close all of our good spots to ride and want us to pay more money to ride what a joke.......... show me where they really care show up at the atv rally with some good news about new places to ride and i will be glad to pay but until then they arent getting another dime from me.

Well said 

[tony pitts]

 its good to hear your back and safe and enjoying what you were fighting for freedom. to bad there trying to take it away over here.

[Prairie Master]

Tony are you going to durhamtown the week of march 18th. Also I'm ready to search for riding land 

[lisa]

   The OHV committee worked on this for two years. I had neutral feelings on it when I heard about it, after all, we make our kids take driving lessons, have a permit for a year now, and we still have horrible car accidents. We are dealing with humans.

    Now, Stewards said something that I am curious about. This is the USFS we are talking about here. They manage the lands of the ONF, while the State manages the wildlife. This is my simple understanding of who this works. So, if that is the case, why do State Laws apply here? Maybe if we understood a little more about how this complex situation works, we can get on board and be a little more excited about this program?

   Also interesting,  if State law applies here, what else can we have State Law apply to; or is it only those State Laws that USFS deigns to allow to apply?

    Another curious question, how much grant money did ONFA get, and where did it come from?

   

[tony pitts]

were planning on going to dp for spring break in april 2 -6 i have to check the race schedule and i will let you know more. on the land issue im not ready till another year im waiting for my son to get out of high school. but this is something i really am looking forward too.

[Stewards]

The course material does not include any personal equipment such as atv, helmet, boots, long sleeve shirt, gloves or goggles.  However, they do have a program setup with the manufacturers, through any dealer that want to participate, to lend atv's to the instructors.  However, the instructors are responsible to maintain, pickup and return the equipment with only normal wear and tear.  This may turn out to be a bigger burden then anyone wants to be responaible for.

Can you supply us with the link that says they will not supply you with atv's etc. I can see not supply the shirts, shoes, gloves, helmets, etc. But as I stated in the course that I took there were aleast 20 bikes in the course trailer, ready to go if someone needed them.

[Chillinthemost]

Will the kids be graded on their ability to ride wheelies, cut sweet donuts and get get sick air? .

[Prairie Master]

Lisa I found this about the grant:


Today we received notification from the Internal Revenue Service that we have been awarde the status of a 501(c)3 non- profit.  This will allow us to obtain grants necessary to make great things happening.  We have already applied for a $50,000 grant that hopefully will be awarded at the OHV meeting on Sept 28th in Fort Myers.  This grant will allow us to provide training to Trail Rangers as SVIA instructors and First Responders.  The SVIA instructor status will allow us to provide the safety training course that the State is requiring all under 16 ATV riders to have be July 1, 2008.  We plan on having this training at least every month on a Saturday at the OHV Center.

This is only one of the things we will be doing.  Hopefully, after you go on the ride on Saturday, you will want to join us.  We will need all the volunteers we can get.
 
This was post under great news on Sept 26 2006 by grizzly
 

[Loven It]

Why is the fee $75.00 when you can go through atvsaftey.org for $50.00 because of the age of the child? Age in question is 6yrs old. I just got off the phone with them and that is what I was advised.

[GrizzlyBear]

not sure where you got the $50 fee.  Here is the link to the page with the fee on it;

https://online.svia.org/training/Enroll/EnrollIntro.aspx

[Loven It]

not sure where you got the $50 fee.  Here is the link to the page with the fee on it;

https://online.svia.org/training/Enroll/EnrollIntro.aspx

When I called them to enroll in the class......that is what I was told the fee is..

[lisa]

  Thanks for answering PM. I was hoping Terry might answer though. At the last OHV meeting I was at, he told me that they hadn't gotten their grant yet; that is why I was asking what grant they actually got.

   I am confused by this sentence

The problem is the Division of Forestry will only approve already accepted courses.

   Is Division of Foresty requiring this as well? I had not attended the whole OHV meeting, so I am not sure whom the parties are that are requesting this course.

  I would also like to clarify an earlier post of Grizz's.

The fee includes $35.00 to the instructor.  ONFA is trying to get the fee sent to the organization.  The instructors have agree to waive their portion,

Now if the instructors are waiving their fee, doesn't that bring the fee down from $75.00 to $40.00?

  What fee is ONFA trying to get sent to themselves? The instructor's fee? That was a very confusing post.

[Prairie Master]

Looks like the USFS pick and choose the laws that will make them money.

[GrizzlyBear]

The first answer is we have received no money from any grant.  We have finally gotton the paperwork, but no sign of money.  The Division of forestry , who is administering the grants and the new education requirement for minors under 16 is the organization that has said the education program must be an approved program that will accept liability in case of accident.  ATV RiderCourse is just that.  The grant includes money to buy the equipment to issue photo I.D., it does not include the material.  The ONFA will receive $35.00 back (you must pay $75.00 to the ATV Safety Institute).  We are going to keep $10.00 to cover costs and if acceptable to both the State and the ATV Safety Institute reimburse each parent the other $25.00.  None of the money will go to the USFS.

[Prairie Master]

So what your saying the only reason the The Division of forestry is involved with this florida law is to approve a grant for the ONFA , because you can take the course through out florida through the atv institute. I'm trying to figure out what you guys are doing, are the safety courses going on in the rest of the state not good enough to be able to ride through out the national forest / or are my children going to have to take 2 courses. Just trying to understand ?

[GrizzlyBear]

the Division of forestry is incharge of getting this law enacted properly.  The fact that they also administer the T. Mark Schmidt grants is a seperate function.  yes, you can take the safety course anywhere it is offered by the ATV Safety Institute. It is $75.00, if the instructor who makes $35.00 wants to give you any of that back, that is their call. The USFS will accept the course wherever it is given.  All we are trying to do is to hopefully be able to help meet the demand that is going to be there as a result of this law, and hopefully save the families some money.

[viper]

If the division of forestry is administrating the grant money, and you are a partner of the USFS Ocala National Forest, uuuhhhmmm that would make you a real good candidate to recieve all kinds of grant monies.

All we are trying to do is to hopefully be able to help meet the demand that is going to be there as a result of this law, and hopefully save the families some money.

And take more money out of our pockets.

None of the money will go to the USFS.

Not directly -- but the USFS will see it in other ways.

[GrizzlyBear]

Viper,

Your total lack of understanding of what is happening is amazing.  If you ever registered an atv in Florida, you know that is the money that is used for grants.  I am sure that somewhere here you have probably been upset with that money not being used for ATV's.  Well, you are right, we as a non profit are going to apply for grants to provide money for use in the Ocala National Forest.  We are going to (in the next cycle of grants) apply for a rescue trailer to get injured people out of the forest, we were thinking of getting a grant to provide picnic tables at each trailhead, and we are open to any good ideas anyone has.  If you believe we are taking money out of your pocket, why don't you come up and be a part of the organization.  We need trail rangers, and we need people with good ideas.  We also need people who can operate eqipment.

[viper]

It is not my total lack of understanding but yours. How many people are forest service personal on this grant committee? It looks like I just hit a home run with you, a little touchy aren't you. That sounds like an awful lot of grant money to me, but yet you seem to want to charge everyone for a training course. Why have a school train the kids, aren't you suppose to train them, isn't that what the grant was for?? You train ONFA members in turn train the kids, now the state doesn't reconize that, a waste of grant money.

[Prairie Master]

Grizzly,

I don't think its a lack of understanding , but more of perception of what is going on.

examples :

1. Greenstickers being used to show ownership and find new land for trails / trail maintenance by collecting sales tax and registration fees. / USFS Create a new trail system but want to charge a new permit fee to use it.

2. ONFA apply for grants to help facilities and equipment IE picnic tables at trail head and trail groomers / Shouldn't these funds come from the Division of forestry yearly budget.

3. ONFA applies for a grant to teach the kids the safety course. but the children are still being charged 75.00 to take the course. wasn't the grant applied for about 50,000. Thats a lot of money to teach trail rangers the safety course

A few questions:

1.  Was the ONFA create with partnership with the USFS to Maintain the trail system and facilities?

2.  Has anyone from the department of forestry offered a question and answer forum to be held at the ORV center on a weekend when people can attend and they can answer questions about what is going on with the forest /some examples: The trail system, logging, proposed permit fee ?

3. Will anyone from the ONFA or USFS be attending the upcoming  rally?

4. What checks and balances are in place in regards to board members of ONFA / USFS / Division of forestry in regards to grant money?

 I'm just tired of the state demanding more and more money from me everytime I use my 4 wheelers. I want to make sure the money I've spent in taxes and fees are being used for what they should be use for.

[viper]

Well said prairie master - One other question to add to that, the fee system that is going into place 60 - 120 dollars, isn't that suppose to go to the trial system, picinic tables, groomers for trails, etc. If so why the grant, if not where will the money go?

[GrizzlyBear]

Prarie Master,

Let me try to address your questions.

1. The Green stickers go to a STATE fund. Not the Federal Govt.  So the ONF gets none of it unless it applies for grants, similar to non profits and counties.  The registration fee is the same as the green stickers.  The sales tax goes to the state general fund.

2. The division of forestry general fund has nothing to do with the ONF which is a federal forest.  Therefore no inclusion in the state budget.

3. The $49,600 grant from the T. Mark Schmidt fund includes many items, training the trail rangers, building a safety course,  training TR as first responders,  and how to evaluate the sound requirement of atv's and for gas to patrol the forest.  It was not just for the safety training.

The ONFA was created to "Partner with the USFS to provide sustainable recreation in the Ocala National Forest"  To do this we intent to apply for grant money to provide items the USFS is not providing.  In addition we intent to provide volunteers to do what ever we can.  Right now we are trying to train volunteers to provide service at the trailheads they are building and patrol the trails.  This could take about 200 people. We do not have the people to maintain the trails.

I can have people from the USFS at the cleanup ride on June 9th to answer questions if people want.  Yes, I will be at the upcoming rally.

ONFA must account to the state for every dollar they give us (whenever we finally get it).  As a non profit we must also file IRS papers yearly.

The fee the USFS is proposing is a user fee, similar to camping and other services the USFS provides. (95% of what they charge must go back into the activity.  This should mean that in the future the trails sould be well maintained. 

By the way, the grant committee has absolutely no one from the USFS on it.

hopefully I have answered your questions.

[duroc825]

This is just another good reason that we need to find legal riding areas that are privately owned and operated like Durhamtown, etc. Keeping THE GOVERNMENT out of our personal business is the only way we can ever have any reasonable rights and freedoms when it comes to riding! Nothing but a bunch of red tape crap that ultimately leads to more taxes (fees) and ridiculous rules and laws!

[Prairie Master]

Grizzly

thankyou for your response : Just a few more questions

1. If the green stickers are state issues why do they (trail rangers) enforce the rules on out of state people its a federal forest right?

2. The Department of Agriculture has a budget, which the USFS work for / has there been any funding for the trail system from them? 

3. Are you saying if the ONFA wasn't around the trail system would have never been and trails closed because of the lack of people to maintain trails ? Again wouldn't that fall under the USfS if they created the trail system you would think they would have proposed in there budget to maintain it and not have to rely on private organizations.

4. As for the permit fee , other national forest in the nation have fees, but I've not seen them as drastically high as the proposed ones in the ocala forest.  Do you know the reason behind the drastic proposed fees?


Thanks

[GrizzlyBear]

The Forest Sercive is trying (though they don't have to) go along with the states, including Florida. They like the idea of the green sticker as it proves ownership.  The ask out of state people to bring proof of ownership, they do not have to but the green sticker(registration sticker).  The Trail Rangers enforce nothing.  They are volunteers.  The War in Iraq has severely hurt the Dept of Ag budget. The funding for the trails system construction came from an RTP grant and the vault toilet for the Trailheads is from a state grant.  If the trail system is to work it must stand on its own.  Hence the fee system.  The amount you see mentioned of up to $150 was only an upper limit, they are trying for $75.00 per year and $10 per day.  I have lobbied for and additional break for families (2 adults and up to 5 children)  Nothing is definate as the fee committee has not even met.  It will probably be July or later before you see any fees. 

And to answer your question about ONFA.  The system was in the planning and design long before there ever was an ONFA.  Partnering with non-profits is just an additional way to get volunteers and grant money to enhance the trail system.