Holey Land Cleanup = FUTILE !!!!!!!!

[Gato]

D let me know I will do my best lets try to do something late like the meeting in collier on a fri at about 7-8pm that way more people can attend and as for the 2up riding i think that is not going to solve much an affect a lot cause as for like me and ScooterB we wher at the cleanup and then rode but he also had is boy and I had my kids also and we were not doing crazy so that rule will affect many people that go to have fun with kids

[06 BaNsHeE]

Is there seriously a speed limit on the levys?Ive never been there but on long straight dirt roads I really like going pretty FAST on my banshee?But I wont if theres a speed limit or if they are any minors or alot of other riders.Just wanting to know.Dont want to be the reason we have 1 less riding spot

[Gato]

yeah they posted up 35MPH signs

[backinsaddle]

i thought it was 25 mph on a orv?

[Gato]

no I saw them Iam not sure on the levy but on the dirt roads they say 35MPH

[06 BaNsHeE]

Damn 35mph.I would hate to spend my whole day on the levs only going 35.Are the trails already wet?I have a banshee with bald tires and I hate mudding on it.

[FIVE-O]

Damn 35mph.I would hate to spend my whole day on the levs only going 35.Are the trails already wet?I have a banshee with bald tires and I hate mudding on it.

I rode all day Saturday, without a problem. We even rode to the green camp and back. The trail we took was so dry you could have probably ridden it in a car. My son rode it on his YZ125 leading the pack, good times. You know, the more I think about it, I would hate to lose that area!   

[bocephus300]

they changed the speed limits is rite its 35 all around. even in the parking area... now i go out every other weekend for probly 4years now.and most, not to point fingers but most wrecks ive seen are kids riding sport bikes doing wheelies, haulin..., and not watchin out for other bikes. i was there a few weeks ago when this group of kids none of them were over 16(we asked) all doing wheelies, doing wheelies with 2and3 people on a bike, and "stunting". all in the parking area ard crossover area. well bout an hour later kid was wheeling across the bridge started drifting tward the wall so he landed it and plowed his buddys banshee. i mean plowed his axle was almost in a 90. but when he hit he and his bike flipped over foward. and he skinned a good section of his head, and had to be lifeflighted out to the hospital.i dont know how it turned out for him but he was pretty bad off.

and another big problem is people jumping the levi. the parking lot is for parking. if anyone should ride there it should be the little kids, just puttin areund daddys truck, tryin to get into the sport. they dont need to be getting scared off by peoply landing jumps on them, or haulin by them.. i dont even park in those lots any more, cause i dont know about you but i sure did not buy a thirty plus thousand dollar truck for someone to come spray rocks at, and dust out my truck.

now if u want to go fast there is plenty of place to do that.. just not on the levis.if you drive down the south side levi there is plenty of well cleared trails to go fast on, go there. its dry now, but kinda cold.. i had a chat with a fwc officer when they opted for the flag rule. and he said the one thing that causes alot of accidents is haulin down the paved road on atvs (which is as illegal as driving down the highway) and trucks too. people fish all up and down this road got to be respectful of them too.

[Thrumud]

Someone from FWC will call me tomorrow concerning the issues at Holey Land. I will keep you posted.

The following rules apply at Holey Land: 

1. All ATV's must have flags
2. All children under the age of 16 must wear eye protection and a helmet
3. Speed limit on the levees is 35 MPH & they are posted.

My buddy John was 2 up with his 6 yr old and he was stopped by FWC and they told him he was endangering a minor and told him to pack up. I never heard of this at Holey Land, has anyone ?

[digginfool]

This is pretty much what I was talking about on another thread regarding this same subject.  FWC will slowly tighten the screws until people conform or until there is no alternative but shut it down.  I'll admit that my wife and I have ridden two up with our children out there but always at safe speeds.  Those that rode with my family on the cleanup ride know my kids ride with helmet and chest protector and are well schooled in proper riding technique (although the boy's got to be reeled in from time to time).  I'm fortunate enough to be able to go out and purchase a two-up machine which has always seemed a bit silly to me when your typical quad has a seat that is plenty large enough for two people and has weight ratings for the front and rear racks that exceed the weight of any passenger that you would want to sit with you (at a distance that is well away from the center of gravity, btw).  It's really not the fact that you have two people on a quad; it's the fact that you have someone at the controls that has not considered the consequences of the added weight and difference in handling that weight will make, not to mention the "Hey, Watch This" factor.  What really irritates me is that I'm having to go out and spend nearly $10,000.00 on a quad so that my three year old can join the rest of the family riding and another $80.00 on a helmet that is too big for her because nobody manufactures a helmet that fits a small child properly.  So, at the end of the day, I'll have $30,000+ wrapped up in quads, trailer and gear that I probably won't be able to use out there anymore because FWC will prove once again that you can't legislate common sense.  BTW, it really doesn't surprise me that it's such a mess out there again already.  As I was packing up to leave the day of the cleanup, I saw small piles of trash next to a couple trucks that were parked over on the side I was parked.  I knew they probably wouldn't take it with them.  It's a damn shame.

[LTR450 994]

Someone from FWC will call me tomorrow concerning the issues at Holey Land. I will keep you posted.

The following rules apply at Holey Land: 

1. All ATV's must have flags
2. All children under the age of 16 must wear eye protection and a helmet
3. Speed limit on the levees is 35 MPH & they are posted.

My buddy John was 2 up with his 6 yr old and he was stopped by FWC and they told him he was endangering a minor and told him to pack up. I never heard of this at Holey Land, has anyone ?

if the bike wasnt meant for two people then it's illegal to ride two people.

[Off Rode]

Someone from FWC will call me tomorrow concerning the issues at Holey Land. I will keep you posted.

The following rules apply at Holey Land: 

1. All ATV's must have flags
2. All children under the age of 16 must wear eye protection and a helmet
3. Speed limit on the levees is 35 MPH & they are posted.

My buddy John was 2 up with his 6 yr old and he was stopped by FWC and they told him he was endangering a minor and told him to pack up. I never heard of this at Holey Land, has anyone ?

1. The flags are supposed to be 10 X 12 (at least) rectangular.  There aren't many places that sell them in that shape compared to the triangles.

3. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe the posted speed limit is 30

[AintSkeered]

Buy 10x12s @ Holiday Park.

[Anoriginal]

What it all comes down to is a minority of the ATV crowd ruining it for the majority. Digginfool's post is indicative of the type of person that: (a) respects places to ride; (b) properly educates and teaches his kids how to ride respectfully; and (c) is the type of person who will feel the impact of other's stupidity.

I guarantee you that when they require a title and inspections to ride, along with an ORV license like Big Cypress, and you'll see a drastic change. If not, we'll have ourselves another Cecil Webb area for buggies only.

[eldiablo64]

I know how you guys feel I've gone to places I never rode at and ended up picking up trash for an hour or two before I even rode.

[450R_Matt]

Folks...Its not just in the offroading community. In reality its what the world is comming to. Nobody has any more respect for anything. Weather is driving down the road, throwing trash down on the ground, vandelisum, personal respect to each other and so on and its only getting worse.  Makes me sick. Hollyland will be another Picayune State forest. 

[Thrumud]

Hey guys, still waiting for FWC to call me.  will keep you posted.

[IXIswamperIXI]

I keep thinking if there was a charge to ride in places (which I don't like the idea but) it would slow down the litering and all the disrespect but that isn't true.  One time at C&R we got there early and left late.  C&R was spotless when we got there and trashed when we left I couldn't believe it,  I feel sorry the C&R have to clean up that kinda mess everytime.

     Swamper

[digginfool]

You just answered your own question; if you charge, then you get to clean up the mess.  When was the last time you went to a restaurant or hotel and cleaned your own mess?  How about the carnival?  Did you clean up there?  No, because you figured if you had to pay to play then you don't have to pick up after yourself.  Doesn't change the fact that it's still disrespectful to be a pig but charging isn't going to change anything.

[IXIswamperIXI]

Yea I know.... I just don't know what is a good solution would be that was kinda my point.  The whole deal sucks.  Got to keep the old boy scout motto... pick up more than you left. 

[Gato]

D I if you can get fwc to get us a stop sign like the ones they use for the hunting season traffic maybe I/we (anyone willing to help) I will make some flyers and also print out some rally flyers to pass out along with 1 trash bag per vehicle intering Holeyland to explain how inportant it is to cleanup after themselves this is only an idea but 1 idea may make the difference and maybe get an fwc officer to sit with us for a while and get the media to show up let me know Willing and able I will get the trash bags and print flyers on notice

[Off Rode]

D I if you can get fwc to get us a stop sign like the ones they use for the hunting season traffic maybe I/we (anyone willing to help) I will make some flyers and also print out some rally flyers to pass out along with 1 trash bag per vehicle intering Holeyland to explain how inportant it is to cleanup after themselves this is only an idea but 1 idea may make the difference and maybe get an fwc officer to sit with us for a while and get the media to show up let me know Willing and able I will get the trash bags and print flyers on notice

I honestly believe this is the approach that needs to be made.  It's EDUCATION.  I know the members of this forum are not the ones who are messing it up.  We have got to try to educate people out there & that's going to happen by educating them while they're out there.  NOT everyone is logging onto a forum & disregarding the issues.  We need to reach the "LOCAL" crowd out there!!!

Excellent suggestion.............hopefully we'll get participation on the garbage bag side of the idea.

[Off Rode]

What if they/we posted a sign reminding of the area's rules/laws???   Helpful??

[Off Rode]

we'll have ourselves another Cecil Webb area for buggies only.

Cecil Webb has NEVER allowed ATV's.  Funny how they DON'T have a problem.

I guess this is where the idea of PROHIBITING them originated.

Again, I will reiterate.  I hunt & have been doing so for decades with Atc's/ATV's.  I do not recall any issues anywhere near what ATVer's have brought on.
Literally, there is a quota hunt for Cecil Webb that takes place in the Fall.(No ATV's allowed)  There used to be 500 people there for the weekend.  When the campground emptied out on Sunday afternoon/night there was minimal garbage if any!!  What's up with that??

[Anoriginal]

we'll have ourselves another Cecil Webb area for buggies only.

Cecil Webb has NEVER allowed ATV's.  Funny how they DON'T have a problem.

I guess this is where the idea of PROHIBITING them originated.

Again, I will reiterate.  I hunt & have been doing so for decades with Atc's/ATV's.  I do not recall any issues anywhere near what ATVer's have brought on.
Literally, there is a quota hunt for Cecil Webb that takes place in the Fall.(No ATV's allowed)  There used to be 500 people there for the weekend.  When the campground emptied out on Sunday afternoon/night there was minimal garbage if any!!  What's up with that??

Off Rode:

Your comments about the buggy folks doing a better job of cleaning up and respecting the land is right on point. I hesitated to write it in my last posts, but I will go ahead and do it now.

When speaking to the park rangers and the FWC guys, as well as with several camp owners in the Big Cypress, the one an only common thread with problems is ATV's.  Why? Well, there are severa theories.

First, many of the idiots causing problems are people that don't actually own the ATV they are riding. I dare say a great deal of the ATV's riding Holeylands on any given weekend are stolen. You know the type, little gansta' wanna be's riding some sort of sport bike with bald tires from miles of street use. These people don't care for one minute about the state of the land they are on.

Second, anyone with even minimal credit can buy and ATV. Anyone can get one. They'll finance you for hardly any interest and over numerous years. Make things affordable to the masses and you get trouble every time. Not to sound elitist, but it is the sad truth.

Finally, buggies are usually built while ATV's are normally purchased. A guy that builds his buggy from scratch has a different attitude than the moron's causing trouble on the ATV's. The sad part is that you have folks that own both or that own only and ATV that have enormous respect and appreciation for the place they ride, yet are most negatively impacted by the actions of the morons. Cecil Webb is a shinig example. Off Rode is right, they have next to no problems whatsoever.

Whether we like it or not, we truly are our own worst enemy. Ocala is another example. The new trail system that nobody seems to like was never dreamed of until you had the massive influx of AYV riders. Up until 6-7 years ago, the ATV's were not in force in Ocala. It was primarily Jeeps, trucks and the occasional motorcyle with a sprinkling of ATV's thrown in. During this time period ORV enforcement wasn't really an issue. What changed? ..... Us.

I'm not sure what the answer is. However, you can bet the state and feds know what the answer is.........Ban the ATV's. Sure seems to work everywhere else they do it. I hate to see it come to this.