Ocala national forest district manager

[4fittyr]

im not trying to be negative by no means lisa and i apoligize, but we've dealt with people like this before and no matter what we said or did the result was the same. now in onf the loggers and meth labs have a better chance to continue their projects and the campers /atv riders will probably be band  indefinite. my tax $ and rights to use the land in the constituion r law but some folks (2 remain unnamed) have a totallly different idea. imo  the state need to purchase land with the title money so no tree huggin sob can say $hit about it

[lswjth2]

Lisa, no you have not hijacked the thread, and I for one, can always learn something from other people, especially that I am not from Ocala.You mentioned the Fl DOT and this is why I am posting. About 3 months or so ago, FL DOT suspended fishing along US41(Tamiami Trail)This was done without any public notice,any user input and so on. Luckily, I have friends that have been fighting the "Scenic Highwway Designation" here in Collier County and they advised the MPO about this. DOT stated that this was done out of a "Safety" issue, when asked to provide the data for the last 20 years, they could not come up with it,interesting thing is,this is the same data that they used to ban the fishing. The MPO got involved and DOT removed the ban. There will be another meeting in Jan, to try to bring this back.......as you can imagine, I will be there to fight this.

[lisa]

 4fittyr, I totally understand your frustration but we need to take heart. Look at the Second Amendment fight. We too were being pummled left and right to ban firearms, and indeed, the radicals did get a lot, but we are fighting back and we are winning!

  I have found that if you keep fighting, keep beating them back, keep making them answer you instead of just giving you the run around and implied answers, the radicals will lose.

   The signs put up by FL DOT along the Tamiami Trail are eventually gonna be pulled down. Why? Because the radicals were trying to take over. They skirted the due process and lost. It is just a matter to taking a stand.

  If we can get an organization started, get members who will make phone calls or send emails, and would be willing to put time and/or money into the venture to sue the Forestry Service when needed, where needed, we too would win. That is how the radicals got what they wanted. That is in an extreme case however. Right now, I want to cirulate a petition to everyone to sign saying we want to stop the Scenic By-way. I have one written, I just have to see if I can put it up here. Admins, Mods, could you pm me with whether I could put it up?

[drains]

I want to respond to some of the points being expressed in this blog.  My name is Denise Rains and I am the public affairs officer for the National Forests in Florida.  I thought I might be able to shed some light on some of the comments being made here regarding Rick Lint and the Ocala National Forest.

First of all, Rick Lint is a District Ranger in every sense of the word.  Our agency grooms people in all resource areas for leadership positions.  We have hydrologists, foresters, recreation specialists, and ecologists and, yes, wildlife biologists that eventually become Rangers.  District Ranger is the title given to anyone who is the manager of that particular district.  There is no requirement for a particular background or degree, only that the person have a natural resource background.  In Rick’s case, he happens to be a wildlife biologist by profession and has earned the position of District Ranger on the Ocala National Forest through his leadership ability and natural resource management expertise.

Because of his position, Rick and all of our District Rangers must be affiliated with different groups and organizations.  Management of a National Forest requires collaboration with many different groups, agencies, and individuals.  Many of our employees maintain certifications with their particular expertise, such as foresters who are members of the Society of American Foresters.  That in no way predisposes them in decision-making. 

I find it interesting that theories abound suggesting that managers of the Ocala don’t support OHVs.  Currently the Ocala and the Osceola National Forests offer more designated routes for OHVs than any Forest in the southern region. That does not include trails that will be added after the current study for the Phase II area on the Ocala National Forest is complete or any trails on the Apalachicola National Forest. 

The scoping period for Phase II route designation recently ended and we will be going through the comments.  Issues and alternatives will be generated for the analysis for a decision to be made.  Information can be found at http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/florida/projects/documents/nepa/oca%20access/scopingletterPhaseII_oct2006.pdf and http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/florida/ .

The proposed Scenic Byway on the Ocala National Forest has very little to do with access or OHV trails.  We are engaged with those interested in the scenic byway to ensure it meets forest standards and is compatible with other forest users.  We don’t anticipate any conflict with OHV use and the scenic byway.

Thank you for your interest in the Ocala National Forest.  Only through input can the managers make sound decisions.  We will continue to work with you and others who express interest in our decision making process and management of the forest.

If you have any questions, please contact me at drains@fs.fed.us .

Denise Rains

[450rcrazy]

If you have any questions, please contact me at drains@fs.fed.us .

Denise Rains

Thats awesome that we were givin atleast some sort of positive response to our concerns,hopefully the statement holds water.What would be real nice is if she was truly on our side and would help give us valueble information regaurding important public meetings where orv enthusiasts should be involved.and post on this site when decisions are made and what future plans are being developed.

[Stewards]

If you really want a representative from your side, maybe a suggestion is to take a poll and on this website and elect someone to represent you. That way if the person attends the meetings you will get the true source of information.

As far as Rick Lint goes, I think it is awesome someone from the USFS has gotten on to reply to this thread. Will it hold water, only time will tell, but everyone deserves a change, whether it be the USFS or the ATVer's. Maybe it is time to give Rick Lint a change to see what he can do.

There is one thing I noticed on these threads, everyone is ready to acuse everyone else of something, before the facts are gathered. There was another thread on here about the ONFA, everyone jumped all over this guy, the three people that jumped on this guy, it was evident that they did not read the thread. Hence Stewards of the Land had to do some damage control from within on that. It also lost the ATVer's a place to ride. My point is think before you guys leap. All of these threads are costly to other people, and you, this is the way you lose places to ride.

Thanks Denise, for your comments, and for keeping us informed.

Joan
Stewards of the Land

[lisa]

  I thank Denise for taking the time to respond as well. It is wonderful that someone from the government can take the time to speak with us all here. I just have a few thoughts though.

  I see nothing was mentioned of the facts that I had stated about what happened in Kisatchie National Forest. I have already stated that I am in contact with two gentlemen that are still working on getting things opened back up there since Mr. Lint had come in and closed them down. To be totally honest here, I know Mr. Lint wasn't the overall manager there like he is here, but he is the one Mr. Maddox and Mr. Bryan credit with doing the closings. It seems to me that since he is in total charge here, he can really do it "right" huh? (Oh, I found out he has four other National Forests to move to when  his work is done here. It might take him longer here than the year he spent in Kisatchie though.)

  I would just like to remind everyone of the old story about the fox and the scorpion. The scorpion told the fox that if the fox would take him across the river, the scorpion wouldn't sting the fox, or as the scorpion said; "we would both drown". The fox, thinking this was a very logical answer and would keep him safe started across the river with the scorpion. Half-way across the scorpion stung the fox. As the venom overcame the fox's body, he said to the scorpion; "Why did you sting me? Now we will both drown." The scorpion replied; "I am a scorpion, that is what I do, I can not change." Whether you choose to listen to those who have been there, done that and bought the tee-shirt, or listen to those who are working against you is up to ya'll.  If you don't take heed to what I am saying, I'll just be able to say; "I told you so" and move on while ya'll have to live here with your mistakes....

  Denise, the reason Ocala and Osceola still have more trails than anywhere else in Florida is because the National Forest Service didn't have someone in there to close all those trails until now. They worked somewhere else first, then moved here. We will see major changes to your assertions over the next few years. The State is working on opening more trails while the National Forest is working to close them. That is what these processes are all about.

  Acknowledgement, my husband said basically the same things as Denise about the Forest Managers having some kind of background in environmental concerns. However, as I pointed out to him, and will point out to you, that in this particular case, Mr. Lint did not work as a "grunt" ranger (using "grunt" for lack of a better term, to me being a "grunt" ranger for at least four years should be a requirement of any manager.) Biologists, and even hydrologists are not friends of motorized access users. In Mr. Lint's particular certification, I noticed this sentence: "A professional wildlife biologist is a person with demonstrated expertise in the art and science of applying the principles of ecology to the sound stewardship and management of the wildlife resource and its environment."

  That very sentence should disturb every OHVer on here. What "art" is in applying science to sound stewardship? I grew up on a crop farm. We didn't apply "art" to managing our crops, we applied common sense when using the information science gave us, not "art". I looked up the word "art" and found two sentences that could apply to the meaning in the sentence (since they said the "art and science" the science definition would not work)

 13.    trickery; cunning: glib and devious art.(italics in original definition)
 14.    studied action; artificiality in behavior.
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  A question now; I have noticed that Mr. Lint went from "managing" Calcasue Ranger District straight into Ocala. Was he anywhere else that we can look into to support your claim that Forestry isn't going to shut down trails? Maybe another district has been overlooked where Mr. Lint worked to keep trails open? Other folks we can talk to who can verify to his previous willingness to work to keep trails open?
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  Just another clarification; there is no way the Corridor Management Council will stay out of the OHV trail system. Denise, you didn't tell the whole story here....the Corridor Advocacy Group was insistent on being a part of the trail making process. It is in their Corridor Management Plan that they be part of the trail making process:Corridor Management Plan draft Objective 1.8: Promote managed outdoor recreation in a natural setting at a level of use that is consistent with what the land and resources can support.

  This doesn't sound like it has "very little to do with access or OHV trails";
 Strategy 1.8.7: Promote sustainable motorized uses on off-highway vehicle (OHV) designated trails and the recreational driving of street legal vehicles on Forest Service designated roads.

Strategy 1.8.8: Work with public land managers to ensure that the roads for street legal vehicles and trails for OHVs are adequately maintained to provide safe riding conditions and to maintain an adequate level of enforcement and patrols to ensure public safety, natural resource protection, and the security of life and property.

  Again, if you look at whom is on the Corridor Advocacy Group(CAG) you will find environmentalists who have actively worked against OHVs and trails in the past. Linda Duever who was technical consultant on: Out of Control, and article written by Defender's of Wildlife and passed out in 2005 at the Florida Black Bear Festival in Umatilla is a member of the CAG. Now the card said Keith Schue attended the meetings representing The Nature Conservancy. He is not a fan of OHVs either. Knowing were Mr. Lint came from, an area that shut down OHV trails, he doesn't seem to be much of a fan of them either, or he would have worked with Mr. Maddox and Mr. Bryan in La to keep those trails open.

   I have been working very hard on the Scenic By-way issues, so I haven't had time to put into looking into the trails system. I know some people are saying that the trail system looks fine. I couldn't comment on whether it really is, or they just want to compromise what we have because they are "sheeple" willing to follow and do what "their" government tells them.

  Again Denise, thank you for taking the time to respond on here.

[ladyinpink]

Ya'll I know this well was produced last year, but these people don't sound very OHV friendly. Well ya know it seems like these people (enviornmentalists) don't want to have OHV trials in ya'll forests.

OCALA - Sparkling springs, a historical fire tower, boat ramps, trails, the endangered scrub jay habitat, campgrounds, glistening lakes, a classic Florida tourist attraction, a rifle range and Civilian Conservation Corps structures are among the features that could result in a stretch of East State Road 40 being named the Florida Black Bear Scenic Byway.

The Corridor Advocacy Group, comprised of citizens and government agency representatives, is working on an application to have the state designate the roadway, between Silver Springs on the west and Interstate 95 on the east, as a scenic byway.

As part of the application process, the group is required to identify the cultural, historic, archeological, recreational, natural and scenic features found along the roadway.

The Corridor Advocacy Group, or CAG, met Thursday and toured the western half of the proposed corridor, from Silver Springs to Blue Creek Lodge Road in Lake County, in search of the features that would make State Road 40 worthy of the designation.

"I want the road to educate the visitors about the ecological systems of the Ocala National Forest and be an example of how a road should be managed through a forest instead of how it should not be," said Salt Springs CAG member Linda Conway Duever, who was representing Save Our Big Scrub.

Carrie Sekerak, CAG member and wildlife biologist for the U.S. Forest Service's Ocala National Forest Seminole Ranger District, said that the designation also could be an enhancement for businesses along the corridor.

"It brings so much money to communities," Sekerak said about the designation.

Some of the sites that impressed the group were Wildcat Lake, Juniper Springs, Mill Dam Recreation Area, Redwater Lake, Ray Wayside Park and the Silver Springs attraction.

Sekerak told the group that at the north end of Juniper Springs is an area called the "Yearling Trail." Author Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings befriended the people in that area and used composites of the people in her novel "The Yearling." That, Sekerak said would be a cultural feature for the scenic byway application.

 
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Traffic makes its way east near Lynne on Thursday, on a stretch of State Road 40 proposed for scenic byway designation. 
Sekerak also brought the group through an area of the endangered scrub jay's habitat east of Juniper Springs.

William Carromero, a botanist for the U.S. Forest Service, Ocala National Forest, pointed out the Bonamia grandiflora, an endangered plant that is part of the morning glory family.

"This ecological system is pretty much fire dependent," Carromero said about the area that lies east of Juniper Springs.

CAG member Monso Tatum of the Pioneer Settlement in Barberville, on the eastern end of the proposed scenic byway, was on the tour.

"We want to participate in what possible funding we might have for a welcome center later on and keep our habitat like it is," Tatum said. "When you get to Barberville, you feel like you are back in Florida 100 years ago."

Dave Bowman, operations and management consultant for the Office and Greenways and Trails, explained to the group how the greenway plays an integral part in joining the Ocala National Forest to surrounding areas, providing habitat and corridors for wildlife.

Robert LaMont, park manager of the Silver River State Park, discussed the significance of that park's walking and mountain biking trails, boat ramp and scenic viewing areas.

CAG chairwoman Cathy Lowenstein, forestry resource administrator for the state Division of Forestry, said the group will tour the eastern half of the corridor - from Blue Creek Lodge Road to I-95 - in January.


 
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Consultant Glenn burns, right, looks for scrub jays along East State Road 40, as Clay Coates of the U.S. Forestry Service uses a speaker system to broadcast the scrub jay's call.
Steve Specht, spokesman for the Silver Springs attraction, gave the group a tour of the facility, emphasizing features such as the glass bottom boats and the history of motion picture films made at the park. He also said that the scenic byway would be a "win-win" situation for the businesses and ecological interests.

Lowenstein said the group is currently in its eligibility phase. "The target completion date for this phase is July," she said.

Glenn Burns, a Florida Department of Transportation consultant who will help the CAG complete the application, said the application is submitted to the department's Scenic Highway Advisory Committee.

If the committee determines that the roadway deserves the scenic byway designation, it will make the recommendation to the department secretary. If the secretary agrees, the CAG group then moves into the designation phase.

During that phase, the CAG will develop a plan to manage the highway corridor. That plan must be approved by all the local governments in the corridor, as well as the state and federal agencies affected. That process would likely be completed in 1-1/2 years, Burns said.

[lisa]

  Thank you ladyinpink. That says it all I think. Now, since that meeting, we have set the some boundaries for the Scenic Byway. It encompasses all of the Ocala National Forest, except that little bit in Putnam County. Right now, the CAG doesn't want  ya'll involved, so they left the ATV trails at the Northeast end of the forest alone. The Nature Conservancy suggested not adding that part into it. However, the whole of the Big Scrub is in the Scenic Byway.

   Also bear in mind, Big Scrub has had a lot of "human disruption". In order for the Forest to be a Natural Resource, there has to be "minimal human disruption". That means really putting the screws to ya'll and keeping your "human disruption" at a "minimum".  I can tell when I stumble on something that they will use and don't want me to think it is important. They don't know how to respond to me, they just sit and glare at me. I know this little phrase of "human disruption" will be brought up to keep the trails at a minimum.

   Also, please know that Mr. Lint is interested in "managed public access". He made a presentation to University of Florida about this very subject. How do you think they would like to "manage" us all? If anyone knows a student that and might have a copy of that presentation, please email it to me.

  Thank you.

[1FasterBlaster]

Just to let you know that a lot of forestry land is government property.They work with the Department of Transportation to use the wood for park benches ,trash cans, and curb railings on highways.
  They do tear down a lot of tree's, and they also have to plant new ones.But, these future tree's are still for product.It's another one of the governments biggest ways to make revenue for the state.
  Yes, a lot of this land could be viewed as comparable to forestry damage.Controlled burning does do a lot of damage to wildlife.But to them, what you don't know and can't see...can't hurt you.
  It's a battle against a big army.You have to ask yourself...are you willing to fight for what you believe in?I think this could be some good grounds for argument when they tell us they have no land.

[ladyinpink]

Just to let you know that a lot of forestry land is government property.

Ya'll know what - it just might be ya'll goverment land, but ya'll we pay taxes on that there land. Everyone has the right to use it.