I don't get it! Please explain it to me

[debatethis]

First off this is not intended to be a religious debate. It's me commenting on current events regarding some facts that are not changed regardless of your religious point of view. This is not intended to offend anyone or start a religious discussion, it's more about the facts of what has been going on.

facts - we are frequently at odds with some nations in the world many of which just happen to be Islamic nations (among others)
fact - in these Islamic nations we are hated , called infidels, and the citizens there are encouraged to hate, torture, kill us even if it is through guerrilla tactics and regardless if it kills civilians, women, and children in the process.
fact -while fighting the war on terror (not going to have a political debate either) many people that are against terrorist are kidnapped, tortured, and beheaded.
fact - someone made a comic with allah or muhamed in it and riots broke out.
fact - the pope called muhammed a teacher of inhuman things
fact - violence broke out against any religion in the region that is not Islamic- the violence was committed by those that believe in Islam
fact - a nun was killed because of violence blamed on what the pope said


the pope said something and muslims immediately begin attacking and killing those of other religions, the pope used more words to "take back " what he said and they said it's not enough. why is it enough for words to start violence but not enough to end it?
and why is it that words that call muslims and islam a violent group are enough to set of riots? isn't that just  proving what was said is true?

I'm just baffled at how people can feign outrage at being called violent when everything they do is aimed at ridding the Earth of everyone but their own religion. They say we can't be against them in this country because they believe in another religion, but around the world they torture and kill others for not being of their religion. they refuse to acknowledge an entire country's right to exist just because they are not muslim.

Is it just me or do they seem like a group that is not only severely hypocritical, but ultra-violent looking for any excuse to riot and kill anyone that is not muslim ?

They refuse to acknowledge the right of Israel to even exist due to their religion and they  fund and encourage people to attack Israel. Israel responds to try and protect their selves and are criticized for using too much force? what is too much? what is disproportional when you are attacked with rocket fire on almost a daily basis? I say there is no such thing other than nuclear weapons. obviously they didn't go overboard seeing as how they have already been attacked again after backing off.

the whole while the impotent UN urges restraint on Israel's part - they refuse to enforce a long standing UN resolution to disarm a terrorist organization which is why Israel had to defend them selves in the first place.
And to top it off the UN jumps on Israel for accidentally killing some UN "peacekeepers". How is that to be avoided when terrorists were camped right next to the UN post and they were firing rockets from that very position? And why doesn’t the UN condemn the Muslims for constantly attacking not only Israel, but anyone that is not Muslim? Why is it Muslims can do what ever they want in the name of their religion while we are frowned upon if we hold the suspected terrorists for a while in Cuba?
They video tape the torture and murder by beheading of civilians while we are seen as monsters in the world’s eyes for putting some panties on a terrorist’s head. Our soldiers are tried for shooting a wounded yet still armed and dangerous enemy while they kill our reporters.

like I said I am not anti any religion. I believe you have the right to believe as you wish no matter what I believe. and I like to debate it but you have your right to subscribe to any political point as well. but listed above are facts that aren't tainted by religion or party bias and we are still seen as the bad guys for being against the actions of such groups ? I just can't understand it.

The pope is being bashed and blamed for the violent outbursts for simply speaking the truth about the majority of a group. The group in question responds with murderous violence and instead of being seen as the bad guys they are somehow the victims in this scenario while the pope is seen as a bad person. I just don’t get it.

If anyone can explain this conundrum to me please, please enlighten me. If not thanks for reading anyway.

Cain

[eldiablo64]

HMMM,THIS SOUNDS LIKE A JOB FER UNCLE RICO!

[Quad32x]

I say we just kill all the muslims in the world and be done with it. Nasty fu$kers.

[310R_Dude]

I say we just kill all the muslims in the world and be done with it. Nasty fu$kers.

Ya... hey thats the answer, GENOCIDE. Well, at least you'd have something in
common with Hitler. Hehe

[debatethis]

And something in common with the Muslims that you'd be killing. After all the don't want to acknokledge anyone's right to live unless they are Muslim. Would that be "Religious Cleansing" ?

[310R_Dude]

The reason you "don't get it" is becuase while those may be
"facts" you stated, they are NOT all the facts. I don't really
believe you seek enlightenment, but maybe I am wrong.

Dan

[debatethis]

Then please educate me with additional facts that make such violence seem rational.
Does that mean anytime I'm called Infidel I can go on a killing spree at the nearest mosque ? What I don't get is the one sidedness of the whole situation. I understand that not everyone will get along or like each other, but for organizations such as the UN to verbally bash one while sitting idley by as another group perpetrates such senseless acts of violence against anyone not of their religion astounds me.
another for instance - Israel and Palestinians will never like each other.
The Palestinians said they wanted Israel to withdrawl from certain areas of dispute - a compromise was made Israel withdrew when they are the stronger of the two militarily speaking. Still they are frequently attacked. What is their motivation to give up land that they can take and keep?
I don't understand why some are ok to set aside any rules of engagement while others are heald to such unrealistic standards.

[310R_Dude]

Here is a link:

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:38-zeruBuZwJ:www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3581.htm+when+was+israel+formed&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

OR this:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3581.htm

Isreal has NO rightful claim to territory in that region basically, thats why
they are not welcome. We helped put them there AND we supply arms to them.

In order for you to achieve enlightenment you have to question not only the motives and
actions of others BUT yourself(US) as well. Are you willing to do that?

I still think this is the wrong place for this type of discussion. No matter how nice it starts
it will end heated for sure.

Take care,
Dan

[eldiablo64]

i say we have a pig roast and invite some muslims for a debate

[Quad32x]

i say we have a pig roast and invite some muslims for a debate

Yea , thats the ticket.

[Chillinthemost]

I say we just kill all the muslims in the world and be done with it. Nasty fu$kers.

You got my vote Mr. President.  They certainly are some nasty bass turds.

[Redinjun]

So if it's all about Isreal, what was the reason/excuse for the towel heads being so antisocial before then,      Pershing had to kill a bunch of them before ww2 even started in the Phillipines, They were using the same candy-assed tactics then as they do now ambush then hide behind the nearest women/child.  What the f**k is so wrong with these people.

[450rcrazy]

number one the UN is corrupt and nothing they say can be trusted.number two our own media I believe is partialy to blame for the deaths of our soldiers and civilians,they publicise a view that portrays our military as monsters causing our goverment to back off and not use offinsive force to prevent having to defend ourselfs on our own turf .Examples cant shoot till shot at ,cant blow up mosques even if recieving enemy fire from there, cant kill known enemys if their at a funeral ,and they show every time a missel goes astray and hits a building with a few presumed innocent people but will not show 9/11 and people leaping from the top floors to avoid being burned to death ,but they will show panties on a terrorist head and say he was mistreated resulting in a US citizen being beheaded , or showing one of our military men shooting a wounded terrorist that was still armed and was shooting at them moments earlier ,now our men are scared to shoot armed terrorists becouse they may be court marshalled .I say use all air power we have available, take out all known enemies while we have the chance ,hand to hand combat should not be neccasary ,racial profiling should be allowed (its not old ladies in wheelchairs crashing planes into buildings).We use profiling everyday to solve murders and other crimes .Other cuntries use profiling to protect themselves why arent we.1 last thought did anyone here Rosie odonald compaired Christians to terrorists on the show the view.She should be sent to IRAN so she can see for one how women are treated and two how lesbians are treated (their killed its against allha to be gay).

[Silverstar]

I'm with quad 32x. Back when this country would destroy anyone who messed with us or our people (a.ka. japan) other countries knew to leave us alone or be dealt with. Now our countrty has become so P.C. and liberal that nobody is afraid of the US. If somebody comes in YOUR home and messes with your family are you gonna sit there and try to talk it out with them and come up with a peaceful solution?? Or even better yet, are you gonna listen to and do what some guy that lives down the street or in another town and how HE thinks YOU should handle YOUR business in YOUR house. I think if the US would decimate anyone who messed with us these chicken s*#t terrorists and countries would leave us alone.

[FishaHallic]

I think it can be said that a majority of Islamic people are just totally ignorant.  I'm not saying they are dumb because some of them are very smart but they are an ignorant people because they are still fighting wars that happened over a 1000 years ago.  They don't beleive in forgiveness and so they hold grudges for all time. 

Now some might say that it is only the Islamic extremist that are the problem but I don't believe it.  All the Islamic countries in the middle east are teaching hatred of the west and western values so these countries are part of the problems.  Also the moderate Islamic people are not speaking out against the extremist and so it seems they believe in the extremist causes.  Look at the Islamic people you see on tv do any of them look happy, no they don't there religion will not allow it so they are destined to be miserable and hatefull for the rest of their life. 

I have known 2 Islamic people enough to call them friends.  The first guy was from Libya and he was a very nice guy and very smart.  I was in my early 20's then (1982) so I did not speak to him about politics and never heard him say anything bad about the Jewish people.  The other guy was from Jordan, he had an engineering degree from a prominenct college in this country but he drove a cab for a living, I never understood that  .  This guy hated the Jews and blamed them for all the worlds problems, thank goodness he went back to his homeland.

I may be stretching it alittle to call all Islamist ignorant but if it is not all of them it is most of them,  They would still be living in the stone age today if they did not have oil wealth.   If you look where ever Islam is spreading there is trouble, Africa and Asia especially are having all kinds of religious wars because of Islam.

I don't understand why the rest of the world does not open its eyes and see the problem.  The Islamics have already declared war on the west but the Europeans (not the British) just don't wont to except the fact that western civilization is under attack.

What's the answer to the problem?  I don't know but an all out religious war is not out of the question.  The Popes days are probably numbered so maybe that will wake up the rest of the world.  The UN is totally useless and should be left out of any answers.  In the end I think all free non-Islamic countries will have to open and all out war on Islam before this will ever be over with because like I said earlier you can't reason with Islamist because they are IGNORANT

[450rcrazy]

well said fishahallic

[BrewsYourDaddy]

Let me first start off by saying I'm a muslim...."I'm a Muslim".

Now, I agree with you to a certain point, kill all the Muslims, but that's not enough, why just stop at killing us?  Certainly we're not the only people who have engaged in violence based on religion.

Surely you must remember Eric Rudolph, the one who engaged in multiple bombings on your own holy US soil.  He was the bomber of abortion clinics in the name of the holy Christian religion! Shouldn't terrrorist bombings such as that recieve the same lack of tolerance as violence carried out by muslims?

And what about the Catholics...why not get rid of all of them. Surely you haven't forgotten your history, (beacause you seem to be very well educated) with regards to the INQUISITION.  I'm sure you remember those people who were tortured and killed in the name of the Holy Roman Church.

And of course you remember the systematic slaughter of the Jews by the Crusades in the SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS, as spurred on by Pope Urban II. Should we kill all these non muslim based religions as well?

I'm just looking for some constency in who you want to wipe off the face of the map!

[cheropride]

FishaHalic, VERY WELL PUT.

Today I read the paper whereas the Islamic terrorist were quoted that this is "an all out war against the west and the worshipers of the cross".  For the majority, and as FishaHalic stated, because I don't here any Islamic coming out and saying otherwise, that this is war, a war whereas the Islamic wants the whole world to be converted to Isalm.  And yes, some say this is not forum to discuss this issue, but let me just say, if you don't realize that we are at war, a war that could change our lives drastically, then as Alan Jackson would say, you must of forgotten.  I heard someone say today, that they have a young relative fighthing the war in Irag, do they want him to come home, well yea, of course. But!  This person realizes that if all our troups just come home, and leave things as they are, then the war will be here, in the US.  That this person could just as easily die here in the US, in a terrorist attack.

What the Pope stated, I believe is so taken out of context.  I keep reading, oh what the Pope said, has outraged the Islamic Religion, well you know what, what happen on 9/11 outrage the world.  

We have been very lucky, and even perhaps by the grace of God, that we have not been attacked again since 9/11.  Come on, think back to that day, when we we knew that anyday we would be hit again.  Well, you know what, if this country and the people of this country don't get their head out of their a$$, and realize we are at war, we will be attacked again.  They, (Islamic extremist) hate us, and nothing we can do will change their hate for us.  We represent freedom, and that freedom frightens them.  Because it is fear what they rule by, they live off the fear they create in others.  But this country needs to get back to what was right after Pearl Harbour, as was said, "we have woken a sleepin giant".  Well, thats what we must be that strong, united we stand, divided we fall nation, the same we felt after 9/11.  

These terrorist are every where, and it's a time to take a stand.  We need to let our leaders know that we are in this fight for the long run.  Our children deserve the same freedom that we have always had!

So you know, what, spread the word, no matter what forum.  Cause we just go about our normal lives, not even given a thought to what happen on 9/11, more worried about where we are going to ride.  You know what, the more important issue is this Country, for what she stands and what she believes, freedom, liberty and justice for all.  We are, one nation under God, and that's what we stand for.  

Please people, find some compassion for this country, our troops, and stand united against terrorism.  If we don't 9/11 will amount to nothing to what we could face in the future.  This is a war, we are at war, and we must face that fact.  No other entity has killed more innocent people than 9/11, the only thing that one can compare it too, is Pearl Harbour.  And look back then, our country stood strong, united and fought the enemy.  Well, now our enemy is not so easily seen, for they are here, they are in our country and although they live off our land, they also look to destroy what we believe in.

What can we do, VOTE. I not saying democrat, republician, or independent, no, vote for the leaders that our going to defend us in this battle.  Don't listen to b/s, oh lets pull our troops out, NO, we must WIN this war, we must support and pray for our troops, for they are fighting our battles.  Think about it really, don't you think for a minute if we just pull out of Iraq and Afganistan, that these terrorist wont bring the battle right here.  What do you think, they terrorist are going to say, oh, look the US pulled out wasn't that nice.  No they are going say, look the US they are cowards, they run from our fear!!!

[Quad32x]

Let me first start off by saying I'm a muslim...."I'm a Muslim".

Now, I agree with you to a certain point, kill all the Muslims, but that's not enough, why just stop at killing us?  Certainly we're not the only people who have engaged in violence based on religion.

Surely you must remember Eric Rudolph, the one who engaged in multiple bombings on your own holy US soil.  He was the bomber of abortion clinics in the name of the holy Christian religion! Shouldn't terrrorist bombings such as that recieve the same lack of tolerance as violence carried out by muslims?

And what about the Catholics...why not get rid of all of them. Surely you haven't forgotten your history, (beacause you seem to be very well educated) with regards to the INQUISITION.  I'm sure you remember those people who were tortured and killed in the name of the Holy Roman Church.

And of course you remember the systematic slaughter of the Jews by the Crusades in the SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS, as spurred on by Pope Urban II. Should we kill all these non muslim based religions as well?

I'm just looking for some constency in who you want to wipe off the face of the map!

Lighten up Paul.

[cheropride]

Let me first start off by saying I'm a muslim...."I'm a Muslim".

Now, I agree with you to a certain point, kill all the Muslims, but that's not enough, why just stop at killing us?  Certainly we're not the only people who have engaged in violence based on religion.

Surely you must remember Eric Rudolph, the one who engaged in multiple bombings on your own holy US soil.  He was the bomber of abortion clinics in the name of the holy Christian religion! Shouldn't terrrorist bombings such as that recieve the same lack of tolerance as violence carried out by muslims?

And what about the Catholics...why not get rid of all of them. Surely you haven't forgotten your history, (beacause you seem to be very well educated) with regards to the INQUISITION.  I'm sure you remember those people who were tortured and killed in the name of the Holy Roman Church.

And of course you remember the systematic slaughter of the Jews by the Crusades in the SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS, as spurred on by Pope Urban II. Should we kill all these non muslim based religions as well?

I'm just looking for some constency in who you want to wipe off the face of the map!




Oh yea, we are all like that, no, we all learn for our past.  I am sick and tired of people like you trying to use what happen in the past, to blame the people of today.  To give justice to the reason why we should be killed.  While we, teach our children to love and respect all, no matter what color, what religion, what nationality, you come along and say, well because the people before you did this, and did that, I teach my children to hate, distrust, a kill you!!!!  You know what, I am American Indian (at least majority|), do I hate the US for what happen in the past!  Hell no, I look at what this country is today, and hold no hatred to no one, because the ones here now had nothing to do with that. But I guess that's what makes me an American Christian - Love thy neighbor!!! In God we Trust!!!  One Nation under God....  Hatred does nothing but hurts, it is love and forgives that forsakes all evil!!!!

[FishaHallic]

310R_Dude , First off why can't this be discussed or debated on this forum?  This is an open discussion forum so I would say this is the best place to discuss this.  I don't see the need to open a whole new website to discuss the Islam problem.   

Secondly, WE (the United States) did not put Isreal where it now located, I believe it was the decision of the League of Nations or the United Nations which ever one they had at the time which was in the late 40's.  Why they did it I don't know but if that area is NOT the Jewish homeland then I don't know where it would be.  Now even if is not the proper place for Isreal it's too late now.   What's done is done and there is no way in he ll that they can move it now.

We must accept the fact that Isreal is where it is and is not going anywhere so now the only question is what can we do to solve the Islamic war on the West?  What are your thoughts?  Whether I agree or disagree with you I still would like to hear others opinion (no matter how wrong they are  ).

[UncleRico]

HMMM,THIS SOUNDS LIKE A JOB FER UNCLE RICO!

It is an interesting conundrum, Cain.

I drew a political cartoon of the prophet Mohammed to explain it to you visually, but it won't upload for some reason.

I think there's a fallacy in the quantifying of your logic, but putting that aside for a moment, I would say that I also have troubling reconciling how individuals of who follow the Holy Quaran can engage in violence in the name of Allah.

This violence is inconsistent with what the Holy Quaran teaches, and is yet another example of individuals hijacking a religion and using it as an excuse to commit aggressions as well as transgressions against others.

I would like to see moderate muslims and the Muslim leadership speak out against this violence. The fact that they remain reticent concerns me.

Putting it simply, the individuals who are using the Pope's ignorance as an excuse to engage in aggression are the problem, not the group. Yet, I think people in a fallacy of logic, tend to blame the group rather than the indviduals.  Islam isn't your enemy, those irrational hate mongers who hijack Islam and twist it's words and teaching are the true enemy.

Until we can identify the problem accurately, we can not move head.


Peace Out
- Uncle Rico

Proverbs 31:6

[FishaHallic]

BrewsYourDaddy,  your a muslim or are you joking?  If you are a muslim then I'm sorry but you are part of the problem if YOU, YOURSELF have not stood up and screamed in your loudest voice that what the Islamic extremist are doing is wrong.  Maybe you have I don't know but if you have then   and if you have not then you must condone the targeted killings of innocent civilians including women and children.  Please note that I said targeted killings not collateral damage like is done in war but the bombing of people in a market buying food, suicide bombers blowing themselves up on buses with school children and so on.  If you are truly a muslim now would be a good time to enlighten us infidels about what we are doing wrong. 


 

Let me first start off by saying I'm a muslim...."I'm a Muslim".

Now, I agree with you to a certain point, kill all the Muslims, but that's not enough, why just stop at killing us?  Certainly we're not the only people who have engaged in violence based on religion.

Surely you must remember Eric Rudolph, the one who engaged in multiple bombings on your own holy US soil.  He was the bomber of abortion clinics in the name of the holy Christian religion! Shouldn't terrrorist bombings such as that recieve the same lack of tolerance as violence carried out by muslims?

And what about the Catholics...why not get rid of all of them. Surely you haven't forgotten your history, (beacause you seem to be very well educated) with regards to the INQUISITION.  I'm sure you remember those people who were tortured and killed in the name of the Holy Roman Church.

And of course you remember the systematic slaughter of the Jews by the Crusades in the SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS, as spurred on by Pope Urban II. Should we kill all these non muslim based religions as well?

I'm just looking for some constency in who you want to wipe off the face of the map!

Lighten up Paul.

If you really are a Muslim then you proved my point in my very first post on this subject and that is that you are still fighting over things that happened 100's if not 1000's of years ago.  You mentioned the Crusades and the Inquisition dude you guys need to let it go, it's over you can't change it all you can do is move on and try not to let it happen again. 

Just think 200 years ago we had a war with England and know we are the closest allies of each other.  A little over 50 years ago we had a war with Germany and Japan and now look,  our countries have prospered and grown to the point where everyone in the world wants to be here.  In the Muslims case they fought wars against who knows who but they still will not let them go.  Heck as far as I know the Muslim countries may have won the wars but they are still pissed off and it just sits there and festers in their guts, know wonder Muslims are so miserable.  If the West is soooo bad and full of perversians like alcohol, drugs, perverted woman wearing practilly nothing, then why are so many Muslims coming here?    If you are a Muslim please enlighten us because as you know we are all infidels and we need enlightment.

[UncleRico]

Fish:

I think he/she is joking. You'd never be able to fit the turban under a helmet when riding an ATV.

But he/she does make some valid points. Aren't all different religions guilty of some sort of attack on the innocents, if we go back in history.

I mean, I know YOU being a strict puritain (I'm judging this based on your black hat with the buckle and matching buckled shoes) like to dunk witches 'till they drowned.

"BURN THE WITCH!"

Brews, don't worry, I understand your plight, and I feel bad that some of my fellow members want to judge you based on the actions of others.

Pay no attention to Quad32x either, he doesn't even have a quad to ride, and he hangs out here. So at least you're not the wierdest one here.

P.S. Cheroprides is just preaching her ACLU hate speech. She's like a card carrying member of the ACLU or so I've heard.

 She wants to ban religions.

- Peace Out
Uncle Rico

P.S. Sorry about the turban under the helmet visualization...it's meant to be funny not offensive.

[FishaHallic]

Uncle Rico, I like your post and most are very funny but in this case I must be missing something, I don't really understand what your trying to say.  Are you saying Musliim extremist are not the biggest problem the world is facing this very minute?  Please explain!

Also the towel head would not have to wear a helmet because the bed sheet would cushion his closed minded little brain.