Damage Report- Ocala National Forest Big Scrub Area

[SomBch]

Ive noticed people getting off point and straying from the real issue, so Ill have to agree with you .

[GrizzlyBear]

If ONFA isn't working with wildlaw read page 27 Restoring Habit above the picture, wildlaw is working with ONFA and Our Big Scrub Inc.. It is in black and white...

This was done entirely without my knowledge.  We have NEVER agreed to do anything for this organization.

[cheropride]

We will be at the table when they design the trail system in Phase II.  We want at least as many miles as are in the north, we want communities, businesses connected and we want it to connect with the sysytm in the north. 

Pg 27 specially states, "Wildlaw is currently working with Save Our Big Scrub, Inc and the new Ocala National Forest Association - an OHV user-group and support organization - to develop a plan for setting up appropriate facilities and training volunteers to do this."

The above does not inply to me that ONFA is working w/Wildlaw, but Wildlaw is specially trying to state that it is try to appease the OHV group, and their comments more than likely directly relate to the Phase II issue. 

It is basically a play on words, that should not be taken out of context.  You know what I mean.  Cause I had previously read the report, and that is actually how I interpretted that sentence.  Wildlaw is trying to say it is making attempt to appease our rights.

[GrizzlyBear]

As I at the present time am the only person authorized to speak for ONFA, I have contacted Wildlaw (only left a message) and I sent them an email demanding a retraction.  To quote someone without their permission is not allowed.  I am very upset that anyone could have interperated it to mean I was working with them.  If they think I am going to organize a group of volunteers to plant trees, they have another think coming.

[GrizzlyBear]

thank you Cheropride, I have to agree with you.

[4fittyr]

since i've been riding big scrub pre 1980 the forest looked like a forest  but the 1994 photos shows trees in the campground and around however back then their weren't too my 4 wheelers just bikes and atc's and no one complained. if the contracts with logger still exist?? and they bucther the land thats ok cause the ol mighty dollar. their gonna close it down to preserve for future delovopers with big$$$$$$$ to buy it up. you mark my words!!!! preserve squat, pictures showed areas of where public citizens had fun with their machines. personally speaking the only wild life i've seen lately is hound dogs with gps collars and # painted on them, not a bird, hawk ,deer, hawg, or gopher ever.so sit down and shut smokey the beaT UP .as for the trees and plants they will grow back someday, but if you cant use the land for anything but foot traffic and soon to band that what good is it.  frustrated to no end  unmanageable goverment.DAM IT THIS IS AMERICA HOME OF THE FREE   NOT ANY MORE HOME OF THE TREE HUGGEN- ANIMAL RIGHT ACTIVAISTS??  ALMOST FORGOT THE METH LAB HOMLESS MAKERS.  THEY'RE OK

[UncleRico]

OK, well this seems to be a passionate issue for most of us posting.  And as with anything, we have different opinions on "logging" and the "truthiness" of the report.

That aside....

We need to come up with a plan. I mean, it would be nice if we came up with a strategy that we could all get behind. That way we can all be on the same page.

I mean, I ride a sport  (450r), and it seems to me that the trail system seems more geared to utes, but I would gladly support other ATVers even if it means NO SPORT RIDING.

So...who's got a plan?

Maybe it would be wise to define what we expect from ONF, so that we can all work together to reach a compromise.

Any suggestions?

I for one would like to see a central area to ride out of, similar to Big Scrub where you could park, camp, maybe some showers, and some security.

It's always sketchy leaving a trailer at a trailhead in the middle of nowhere especially when there's not a crowd around.

[logger]

We will be at the table when they design the trail system in Phase II.  We want at least as many miles as are in the north, we want communities, businesses connected and we want it to connect with the sysytm in the north. 

Pg 27 specially states, "Wildlaw is currently working with Save Our Big Scrub, Inc and the new Ocala National Forest Association - an OHV user-group and support organization - to develop a plan for setting up appropriate facilities and training volunteers to do this."

The above does not inply to me that ONFA is working w/Wildlaw, but Wildlaw is specially trying to state that it is try to appease the OHV group, and their comments more than likely directly relate to the Phase II issue. 

It is basically a play on words, that should not be taken out of context.  You know what I mean.  Cause I had previously read the report, and that is actually how I interpretted that sentence.  Wildlaw is trying to say it is making attempt to appease our rights.

Not a play on words - it states working with Wildlaw.... it is that simple.. But I will be nice and let grizzley have the benefit of the doubt. It all boils down to interperting the words, and how one precives the written word. It is just like freedom of the press.. off the topic.. Sorry

[Sleazy_Rider78]

Anyone that has read a document written by a lawyer knows that the language they use is supposed to be confusing.  I am sure if we were to bring it to their attention, they would have some vague response.

[SomBch]

since i've been riding big scrub pre 1980 the forest looked like a forest  but the 1994 photos shows trees in the campground and around however back then their weren't too my 4 wheelers just bikes and atc's and no one complained. if the contracts with logger still exist?? and they bucther the land thats ok cause the ol mighty dollar. their gonna close it down to preserve for future delovopers with big$$$$$$$ to buy it up. you mark my words!!!! preserve squat, pictures showed areas of where public citizens had fun with their machines. personally speaking the only wild life i've seen lately is hound dogs with gps collars and # painted on them, not a bird, hawk ,deer, hawg, or gopher ever.so sit down and shut smokey the beaT UP .as for the trees and plants they will grow back someday, but if you cant use the land for anything but foot traffic and soon to band that what good is it.  frustrated to no end  unmanageable goverment.DAM IT THIS IS AMERICA HOME OF THE FREE   NOT ANY MORE HOME OF THE TREE HUGGEN- ANIMAL RIGHT ACTIVAISTS??  ALMOST FORGOT THE METH LAB HOMLESS MAKERS.  THEY'RE OK

I think I understand your point but, if there saving the land for future development how could that be misinterpreted as environmentalists trying to kill your sport? I think we all need to have a common understanding of who or what is effecting the future of our trails and riding areas. On the contrary do I believe its the environmentalists, no I believe we should take issue with those that we elect to maintain the lifestyles to which we have become accustom to.(to steal a term from divorce court) In the end just as was mentioned above , these lands end up being developed. We are run out and ther excuse is" its environmentally sensitive" well thats what they said about the Okeechobee woods and now look there are houses from Jog Rd all the way to 441, not to mention that a certain source has told me that the entire catchment area has sewer run thru out , now you tell me does that sound like its gonna stay that way? I think you would be hard pressed to find a enviromentalist that would rather have houses built on  huge properties than having trail riders using it recreationally

[ananomaly]

Anonomoly, I think your right on track. This is very well prepared and documented. I think we should all accept that we do damage to the areas we ride in. I'm Just not so sure I give a rats behind if a red belled long billed horny toed frogs habitat is disrupted when I ride.Do I think the environmentalists are out of control? Yep, but look at their powerhouse. Grizz seems to be on the right track trying to be part of the process to have a voice.

[Anoriginal]

"Anonomoly"... that's cute.

[Loven It]

Would anyone be interested in ATVFlorida holding a meeting someplace neutral that we can all discuss this openly together and set up a plan! Figure out who wants to go and what county everyone lives in that wants to go and see what the best general location would be. We all seem to have the same want...legal riding areas and to keep more from being shut down!

I say if everyone agrees we hold an ATVFlorida meeting and see how many show. At least that way we know how many on this site are seriuosly wanting to put their money well where their mouths are and get our group organized. Only once we are all organized and can agree on plan of action will anything get done.

There are some members on here that go to extreme lenghts to fight for ALL of us! I feel those folks have their ducks in a row and NEED more support from us. I for one am not rich and am a single mom. Funds are not that easy to come by, but I can spare at least 20-50 bucks next Friday to help get this started. Considering what I spend in coffee every week. I would rather give that money to the members on here that are fighting their asses off for me and my family to have a place to ride.

Lastly I know you guys don't see me at the meetings or posting in more threads related to this, but I do a lot as well. I am constantly reading new literature as I can find it, and emailing as many different people as I can. As someone else suggested to me that we need to help find an area that is suitable for atv's. So when we show up at these meetings we can propose a site. Trying to do that is hard. I am not familiar with a lot of the zoning issues and things like that. I hope that makes sense.

What do you guys think? I'll start...

I live in Pinellas County - Clearwater

[raptor]

It has been said many times that the ATV people need to be together, that is a tough fight. Finding a place to meet with everyone in mind will not be an easy way to do this, with the price of gas, and people as far south as Miami and as far North at Tallahassee, that is a tough fight. I have found threads like ATVFlorida.com where there is a lot of bickering but when someone talks no one walks.. Another words when someone steps up to the plate they are not willing to join the fight. It seems like everyone here wants to go their own way.. and nothing for the good of the order. That seems to be the way of the OHV world. It is an entirly different world in the non off road world.

I think what you have said are all good points.. My thoughts are:

1. Fighting on your own won't get you alot of places. Emails on your own won't get you a place to ride.

2. There are ways to get places to ride and their are ways to deal with the government. Once you know how to deal with the buracracy you will have scored a plus and you might get a place to ride. That takes a lot of team work, and a lot of people working together, to bring it off. And people in all areas of Florida. Emails and demand for land probably won't get you anywhere. And you probably won't get anywhere dealing with the USFS. Buracy will probably say yes to you to get you out of their hair.

3. Being a non profit organization will help --- but certain grants (won't mention names of grants) will not buy you land. It has been tried by FTR, and other clubs. There are grants out there that will get you land to ride on. You have to know where to look and how to write the grants. It is not that easy.

4. Come up with a plan -- what kind of plan Does anyone have an idea Coming up with a plan to do this right can be a lot of work, with a lot of volunteers. Are you guys willing to spend the time to do this.. How much does it mean to you ...

5. The members that are going to extreme lengths to get things done are to be commended for their efforts. Again they seem to be single people doing what they can to save areas to ride.

6. There are other options to consider rather than going to the government also. Maybe better options..

Solutions .....

1. Instead of having everyone travel to a place of who knows where, why not ask the adminstrator of this site if you can have people in the chat room, and use the internet whenever you can. Saves money, time, gas, and it is convient. Once you get the administrators OK post a date and time for the chat room. Somehow you might have to limit the number of people in the chat room, not sure..

2. Have the agenda emailed to all participants -- that way everyone knows what to talk about and will have there opinions ready. If you don't have an agenda you will have a meeting out of choas.

3. Your riding area should not only be ATV orientated it should be for everyone, that is espescially useful when you are approaching the government.

I have posted just some of the solutions, a solution to riding areas are numerous. You just need the people to work with you.

A little about me - I currently ride a motorcycle on and off road, I ride the Ocala when I get a change, and I do ride an ATV occassionally. I ride an off road bicycle, and a road bicycle.
I have been all over on my off road bicycle to a lot of parks out of the area. Basically what you can learn at these parks you can transfer to the OHV World.
 
These are my thoughts -- Again there are ways to approach the government for riding areas, but you need the people.

If this thread seems harsh it was not meant to be that way .. I am a realist, I need not say more.

Joan
Stewards of the Land
Off Road Recreation Assoc.
Email: soloffroad4@aol.com

[SomBch]

Kudos to you! You have made the most sense out of everyone! I think the most important thing that anyone could understand about this subject is you can not demand anything from state , local  or federal governments. Its a delicate slope that must be gone down with great diligence. To be effective when speaking to public figures, state planners, engineers etc. you have to be  well prepared with talking points and have a good  understanding of the zoning and land use laws that could make or break your argument for consideration.This takes one heck of a person.You cant just present facts sometimes. Sometimes its your attitude,your personality etc. The points that where made above are very good, and need serious consideration.

[raptor]

Stewards will step up to the plate -- how many people do we have that are serious about this and are willing to put some time in and help.. along with a contribution ??

Only serious enquires only please ..

Joan
Stewards of the Land

[ananomaly]

I,m in for a family. 

[raptor]

Thanks ananomaly --- it is appreciated ---

Here is what i am going to do - I will tell you what stewards of the land is all about, I'll make a new thread called stewards of the Land, and we will see if the mods will make it a sticky for 2 weeks.. At the end of two weeks we will see how many people are really serious about this... bottom line check the threads..