Damage Report- Ocala National Forest Big Scrub Area

[GrizzlyBear]

Hoefully this link will take you to the most damaging report I have ever seem regarding ATV's.  And sad to say, it is true.

http://www.wildlaw.org/docs/OHV_Report_Final.pdf.

This report will do more to shut down the forest then anything else.  It is NOT by the Forest Service, but by an environmental law firm that got the Rodman Pit excluded from Phase I. ONFA is the voice that we have to see that there are riding ares in Big Scrub and you need to join us. Starting next week we will be soliciting for members.  $25 for an individual and $50 for a family.

Read this report and look at the evidence (pictures) that have.  I believe this will shut the Big Scrub are down until we can get Phase II trail system in place.

I know people on this forum may think I speak for the Forest Service, but I am attempting to PARTNER with them to provide US with areas to ride.

[wilburz]

your link is not working for me!

[bigscrub79]

Just go to www.wildlaw.org and click on NEWS then at the top there is a link for ORV in Ocala

[GrizzlyBear]

Thanks

[rednipj]

http://www.wildlaw.org/docs/OHV_Report_Final.pdf

forgot the caps in report and final.

[backinsaddle]

i emailed you the document converted to word...note that pdf documents don't convert all formatting perfectly to word, so although it doesn't look too bad, you may want to edit a bit.

[wilburz]

Read the report. That company that created the report is probably financed by the logging companies. Nothing wrong with cutting large swathes of trees to the ground. plus it looks great! Looking at one large area that has all the trees cut down does not even compare the the tire ruts and unauthorized trails.  I don't have the answer to the problem but the report seemed to be heaping all the problems on OHV's. They failed to mention the damage that logging companies have done to the forest for the last 70 years!

There will be parts of the forests that you cannot drive on but how will disabled people be able to access these areas without a road to drive on?

All in all, I think the trails system that is currently available and the new ones in the works are a great idea. But i do not think it will stop the tresspassing and creation of more trails in restricted areas. Too much land to manage with too few enforcers.         

[ananomaly]

Thanks Grizz... Very interesting read.

[cheropride]

Printing the report to read, but I agree w/the above, oh it's okay to come in and cut down all the trees to make money. 

But like I said, if my slowa$$ computer - that I paid bigtime $ ever decides to print I will read it.  Going to throw this #$#%#%#% computer out the @#$@#$@#$@# window...

[PaulH]

Hopefully this link will take you to the most damaging report I have ever seem regarding ATV's.  And sad to say, it is true.

This makes me sad because if we keep people from enjoying the nature areas we have, our future generations will not have the same respect for them.  I think conservation groups are cutting their own throats by banning people from riding.  They need to work with us, not against us.  The sad reality is, I don't think this will ever happen because of inflated egos and cultural differences.

As an example... I am from Tennessee.  We had a riding area along the river bottoms for years.  They closed it because they said it was damaging the area.  Years later they made mountain bike trails out of it.  They closed it again saying the mountain bikers were too dangerous for the hikers.  Well, it didn't take long for the trails to get completely overgrown and impassable.  Since nobody was using it anymore... they cleared it and built strip malls backing up to the river.

Another example... we had an unofficial riding area just like North Port.  Trucks, 4wheelers, etc.  Of course, we had idiots that would dump trash, stolen cars, shoot, build bon fires, etc.  Well, they closed that area.  Did that stop the idiots?  No.  Instead, they now trespass on private land doing the same crap.

We MUST work together.

[miamigirlrider]

Wow PaulH nicely said....

Another example I used in the OHV Meeting on Friday, just like what we are facing now, when I was around 18 we were used to riding on 8 street and 142 avenue for many years, then they closed it because of wedland but if you drive by it now there is 400k houses in that exact spot....

LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE.... $$$$ INFLUENCES ALOT....

[tekhanto]

The report from this firm IS TO make it look bad even if it isn't they want to shut this down
everywhere.  They are getting paid TO SEE THAT IT IS CLOSED.  AS always we are our own worst enemy and give them the bullets to shoot us with  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fastrnrik]

I've had lengthy posts regarding these matters on the ONF threads, so I will not go through the whole deal again. Grizzly Bear obviously has a good relationship with someone at the USFS, and I've been a USFS contractor since 1998. The thing that people need to realize is that the US Forest Service's mission statement is preservation of the forest and it's ecosystem. That's it. Logging, while it looks like an atrocity to the layperson, is actually a helpful tool in managing the forest, after all the majority of the trees being harvested were actually planted for that reason in the first place. The place called the "Old Seed Orchard" was just that, a nursery for baby pine trees. So what looks like destruction to most people, is actually proper forest management, and a renewable crop being harvested. Just remember, it is not anyones "right" to ride ATV's in ONF. Your tax money was spent to preserve the forest itself, not your use of it.

P.S.- Next time you want to be mad about logging, just try wiping your a$$ with a pine cone or your bare hand. LOL.       

[UncleRico]

OBJECTION YOUR HONOR!

This report is invalid. (or at least it should be)

It has no objectivity.  It's littered with conjecture, speculation and meretricious opinions?

If it's not based in objectivity, than it should carry no merit. It should thus be invalid. It's clear that the parties involved have a predetermined conclusion based on inconsistent premises. In fact, I would go as far as saying that the parties involved have conspired to portray ATV-ers in a pejorative light. Yes, a conspiracy against the people by a government backed entity. I rule in favor of the ATVers and here by declare it illegal to ever take public lands away from the general public again! (At least that's how Judge Judy would have ruled)


The forest should remain open until an objective third party entity does the research to determine the actual impact on the forest and it's relative impact on the surrounding environment.

Unfortunately, that won't happen. SHUT IT DOWN and let the government run beuarocracies (damn I slaughtered that spelling) control your land.  After all, public land is suppose to be the land of the people.

So take your "pursuit of hapiness" and fork it over to the goverment. They should just remove that phrasing from the document. It should read, "...life, partial liberty, and the pursuit of paying taxes"

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. Time to trade in the ATV and take up bird watching.
MY FAVORITE PART is where he refers to OHV's riding out of Big Scrub as an unmanageable situation

THIS MAKES ME SO MAD THAT I JUST WANT TO GO OUT AND SMASH SMOKEY THE BEAR UPSIDE THE HEAD WITH A SHOVEL!

Unmanageable situation...brought to you buy the same government monies that call IRAQ a "manageable" situation.

WHERE'S THE CONSISTENCY?

[raptor]

I have to disagree with you, if you go to the library and read about the USFS and why and how it came about, the orginal model for the USFS was a forest for the people, to utilize, and that was in the early 1800's. The moto of the USFS when it began was not to preseve the forest.

The bottom line is greed money... ONF within the next several years is going to clear cut 20% of the forest. The reason why they are clear cutting so much is because of the contract they made with the loggers several years ago, and the USFS is losing money on the contract. Most of the clear cut get sold to the pulp industry.

It sounds like your a contractor and everyone needs to make money to support their lifestyles, I don't disagree with that, but what I do disagree on is that the ONF could use the clear cuts to produce more OHV trails. It would be easy to do once the area is clear cut. Then let the forest grow back around the trail.

Wildlaw is going to rule in the end, and the rangers working at the ONF will probably be happy campers.

I've had lengthy posts regarding these matters on the ONF threads, so I will not go through the whole deal again. Grizzly Bear obviously has a good relationship with someone at the USFS, and I've been a USFS contractor since 1998. The thing that people need to realize is that the US Forest Service's mission statement is preservation of the forest and it's ecosystem. That's it. Logging, while it looks like an atrocity to the layperson, is actually a helpful tool in managing the forest, after all the majority of the trees being harvested were actually planted for that reason in the first place. The place called the "Old Seed Orchard" was just that, a nursery for baby pine trees. So what looks like destruction to most people, is actually proper forest management, and a renewable crop being harvested. Just remember, it is not anyones "right" to ride ATV's in ONF. Your tax money was spent to preserve the forest itself, not your use of it.

P.S.- Next time you want to be mad about logging, just try wiping your a$$ with a pine cone or your bare hand. LOL.      

[logger]

Funny how the ONFA is working with Wildlaw???

[UncleRico]

.
 but what I do disagree on is that the ONF could use the clear cuts to produce more OHV trails. It would be easy to do once the area is clear cut. Then let the forest grow back around the trail.

Wildlaw is going to rule in the end, and the rangers working at the ONF will probably be happy campers.

      

EXACTLY - If you're going to allow the loggers to rape the forest, and clear cut an entire area, why not use that area for OHV trails, riding pits, or some fun obstacles for sport riders.

AND as for WILDLAW...they shouldn't be allowed to rule anything..they're a legal firm.

To tell you the truth, I find their management situation to be unmanageable.

I SWEAR IF I SEE SMOKEY THE BEAR, I'M GONNA TACKLE HIM AND BEAT HIM OVER THE HEAD WITH A SCRUB JAY!

[GrizzlyBear]

The ONFA is NOT working with Wildlaw,  they offered some needed help in doing the IRS 501(c)3 application for free, and I grabbed it.  Somehow I was lucky enough to get on there mailing list and they sent me a copy of the report.  I am not sure if the Forestry Service has it yet, they may get it in the form of a lawsuit, who knows.  ONFA's motto is "Partnering with the USDA Forest Service to provide SUSTAINABLE recreation in the Ocala National Forest"  I posted this link so people could see what we are up against, highly funded, highly organized knowledleable opposition.  We will be at the table when they design the trail system in Phase II.  We want at least as many miles as are in the north, we want communities, businesses connected and we want it to connect with the sysytm in the north. 

[cheropride]

I posted this link so people could see what we are up against, highly funded, highly organized knowledleable opposition.  

You got that right GrizzlyBear!! 

As for the harvesting of trees is a good thing.  Look I am not against that at all, but to say that ATVer's are the ONLY ones causing ALL these problems is just wrong.  Yes, we all need products that trees produce, but have you ever seen how they leave a forest when they are done.  It's not a pretty sight.  Just like the control burns, they say it is necessary, and you know what it most likely is, but then I say to myself, you know what, the forest survived all these 1000's of years w/o us do "control burns", so who is to say that's right too.  My biggest complaint about the whole report and about the whole issue, it always comes down on the OHV/ATV's, well THAT'S JUST WRONG! 

WARNING - Once they get us out, next will be hunters, and the list will go on and on and on.  They are just starting with obvious, but it won't stop there. 

Also the fact that there is more OHV in the forest, is not because of increased sales, it is because THERE IS NO PLACES TO RIDE.  So when the state shuts everything down, well yea, you are going to have a major impact on the only few places left to ride.  So if you ask me, the state has done this to themselves.

Don't even get me started on the Everglades, what about all of the fertilizers and stuff from the farmers.  But no, IT'S THE OHV/ATV - It's all our fault - NOT.....

[logger]

Grizzley:

You should read the full report before you make that statement.

The ONFA is NOT working with Wildlaw,  they offered some needed help in doing the IRS 501(c)3 application for free, and I grabbed it.  Somehow I was lucky enough to get on there mailing list and they sent me a copy of the report.  I am not sure if the Forestry Service has it yet, they may get it in the form of a lawsuit, who knows.  ONFA's motto is "Partnering with the USDA Forest Service to provide SUSTAINABLE recreation in the Ocala National Forest"  I posted this link so people could see what we are up against, highly funded, highly organized knowledleable opposition.  We will be at the table when they design the trail system in Phase II.  We want at least as many miles as are in the north, we want communities, businesses connected and we want it to connect with the sysytm in the north. 

[Anoriginal]

This report, albeit disturbing, is well done, thought out, supported and very convincing. Wild Law is a good firm with attorneys that are devoted to their trade. They have some vehement environmentalists on board with experience connected to what some have termed "militant" environmental groups such as the Sierra Club.

Chest beating, name calling, clean up trail rides, signs, demonstrations and letter writing are not going to help the situation one bit. This is not a fly by night passing matter. These people mean business and have not only the ability, but the means to see things through to the end.

Bottom line is this: All the OHV groups are shattered about and have no continuity. One group blames the other, ATV's point to the Jeepers who point to the Motorcycle folks who point back at the ATV's and so on. Combine that with the infighting amoungst the individual groups and a complete lack of financial organization and it is clear that we can't beat these folks in our current state. Unless we as OHV users unite, organize and fund ourselves immediately, it's already over. The people have been on this for decades, not years, not months, not weeks. If we're going to catch up, we'd better get rolling or sell our OHV's and buy golf clubs.

[Bigscrb15]

This report, albeit disturbing, is well done, thought out, supported and very convincing. Wild Law is a good firm with attorneys that are devoted to their trade. They have some vehement environmentalists on board with experience connected to what some have termed "militant" environmental groups such as the Sierra Club.

Chest beating, name calling, clean up trail rides, eigns, demonstrations and letter writing are not going to help the situation one bit. This is not a fly by night passing matter. These people mean business and have not only the ability, but the means to see things through to the end.

Bottom line is this: All the OHV groups are shattered about and have no continuity. One group blames the other, ATV's point to the Jeepers who point to the Motorcycle folks who point back at the ATV's and so on. Combine that with the infighting amoungst the individual groups and a complete lack of financial organization and it is clear that we can't beat these folks in our current state. Unless we as OHV users unite, organize and fund ourselves immediately, it's already over. The people have been on this for decades, not years, not months, not weeks. If we're going to catch up, we'd better get rolling or sell our OHV's and buy golf clubs.

     Very well said, I couldn't agree more.

[logger]

If ONFA isn't working with wildlaw read page 27 Restoring Habit above the picture, wildlaw is working with ONFA and Our Big Scrub Inc.. It is in black and white...

[tekhanto]

  Golf courses are next on the list, carts tearing up the grass, large metal sticks tearing up the
turf causing run off  etc etc

[Anoriginal]

Look folks, drop the logging issue because, there is no issue. Logging has been shown time and time again to benefit the environment when done in a sustainable manner under strict guidelines.

Again, look how divided we get right off the bat. Hopeless? Lets hope not.