An orange eating a banana...Crazy

[svtbolt04]

Well.. After looking at some of the stuff.. I see some of the things SouthWestFloridaWater has been saying about finding a place to ride... But then people say that golf courses spring up everywhere... Well, im not sure about you guys and knowing the costs of memberships to places like.. Tiburon and the Hide out... Upwards of 100k a year to play on their courses.. So, I think they have every right to build them if they have people willing to pay for fine establishments (you cant say the work they do isnt good to make it enjoyable).

After seeing people complain that the golfers get a place to do their stuff and us not being able to get out... The question is, would you be willing to pay for a year long membership?

If im totally out of line.. Delete this thread, but it only makes sense that a golf developement can build and charge the public and private... Its not just given to them.. And if you say somthing like.. "well our atv's cost thousands of dollars" and once again, im not sure if anyone on here plays golf, but last time I checked a full set of Calloway big bertha clubs were in the upwards of $1200+.. I know they dont pay taxes on them, but look at the facilitys they pay for time of being on a course...

Im sure alot of people are still going to be saying that they should just give us the land, but if you look around.. Profit is to be made on the land in southwest florida.. Although its at a stand still, think.. 640 acers has to be in the cost of a few hundred million dollars to be made by the county to sell it off..

[svtbolt04]

Also, I would like to add if anyone mentions Ocala being free to ride.. What exactly is free when if you go off a designated trail you get hit with a 500dollar fine, or pop a wheelie and get in trouble.. How free is it really?

[lswjth2]

I can see your point, but should boaters then create their own lakes and seas and stock them with fish?
I know what you mean about the 640 acres and the cost associated, however they got 70,000 acres for 38 million dollars!!! I will give them 100 million right now for that same land. Look dont be fooled by this a$$holes, the land is there to give.SFWMD owns about 312,000 acres and they tell the county they dont have any land. The state of florida, thru florida forever money, money that WE all pay owns about another 5 million acres. It's not like they have to go BUILD the land, the land is there,they just dont want to open it up. If you want send me an e-mail at lswjth2@yahoo.com and i will send you the documentation so you can see it for youself....

[logger]

Hate to clue you in but ONF is not going to be free..

[svtbolt04]

Hate to clue you in but ONF is not going to be free..

What do you mean "not going".. Last time I checked, it was open already and people choose it over croom because its free to ride with no pass.

And with the boaters.. Are you willing to get a license to ride your quad? I know they do.. Any smoe could go out and buy their family a quad and not know anything about it then set them loose.. Add drinking to it(and  that DOES happen), and you get a worse wrap than anything else considering the operation of a atv is already dangerous enough. Another reason why they havent opened up badluck is because they cant get enough county workers (police patrol, EMS,fire fighters) to be out there at all times.

Boaters (the captian) drink and get charged.

I am suprised not more people have responded to this thread. It really shows who follows and who leads.

[logger]

Shortly after the trail system goes in the USFS is going to charge a fee to use the trails.

[Chevy1500z71]

we all know that if you want a good riding place its not going to be free. i do think that its perfectly fine to pay, however in naples, i dont think its a bad thing but we have enuf golf courses.

[dreth]

this is a crazy thread! ofcourse we would pay to ride. we pay to ride at tracks, croom, durhamtown....................l-cross.........most places charge to ride. the problem is the land is so expensive now that you cant afford 10,000 acres to start a park. shoot, take croom 2700 acres, that would cost ya 20 mill anywhere south of daytona.  20 million dollars at $20 per rider would take 1 million riders to recoup your money. now lets throw in insurance, equipment, employees, etc. etc. and it would take you atleast 15 years to get your money back. 20 million invested properly would pay way more and instantly so its not likely to happen unless you could get say..........10,000 investors at $200,000 each

[RAD 450r]

How about warren buffet donates some money to our charity    ....jk

[Fox17]

we need to find someone with like 10,000 acres thet loves ridin and they can charge like 50 bucks a year and then we would have a place and the person with the property would have a buttload of cash in a few years. they would eventually make more than they would selling it in the long run. does anybody have 10,000 acres???

[svtbolt04]

this is a crazy thread! ofcourse we would pay to ride. we pay to ride at tracks, croom, durhamtown....................l-cross.........most places charge to ride. the problem is the land is so expensive now that you cant afford 10,000 acres to start a park. shoot, take croom 2700 acres, that would cost ya 20 mill anywhere south of daytona.  20 million dollars at $20 per rider would take 1 million riders to recoup your money. now lets throw in insurance, equipment, employees, etc. etc. and it would take you atleast 15 years to get your money back. 20 million invested properly would pay way more and instantly so its not likely to happen unless you could get say..........10,000 investors at $200,000 each

Exactly the reason collier county hasnt opened anything. They see a profit in it selling it to guess what... INVESTORS!! People who open up walmarts, targets and any type of shoping center.. Anyone who lives in naples knows that by the hollywood 20 that little shopping center was built in less than a year.

Best thing people can do is join a orginization like FTR and ride. Just because they hold races doesnt mean you have to be the fastest guy or gal out there. They provide the land and PLENTY of excitment, all over florida.

[Fox17]

they would make almost as much making it a riding park as they would a shopping center with as many people would ride there.

[svtbolt04]

they would make almost as much making it a riding park as they would a shopping center with as many people would ride there.

Im not sure on that one. When I was at badluck, it would be lucky to see 50 people at one time.. I really doubt there was over 200 at one time ever.

Now let me say this though.. Closing badluck for no reason other than flooding the blocks was a bad time for every riding enthusist. But thing is, no one owned anything out there, maybe their beer cans they left behind. Trying to get 640 acres for free is just stupid. You have to pay to play.

[kenz]

I'd be willing to pay to ride in another place like Croom.  As long as it's just like Croom, where there are good trails and open places to let it all hang out.  I like to ride pretty aggresively so I don't want any stupid rules like no wheelies, or roosting.  Sorry I don't mean to be picky but if I just wanted to putz around I'd go to a golf course and just get a cart and ride it around all day.  Hhmmm, wouldn't that be funny, if a bunch of us went to a golf course and rented all the carts just to ride them around.  I wonder how many people would get pissed off??

The thing that gets me is that everytime the state, counties or cities acquire land for recreation they always make provisions for mountain bikers, hikers and horses.  ATV trails always get left out.  You can't tell me that they don't know we need places to ride too.  Granted there are exceptions like some of the WMA's and such but those are few and far between.  The last time I was to a WMA was Bull Creek and Three Lakes.  While it was nice to be out there, it's not exactly ATV riding when your confined to flat wide gravel roads that don't have any shade.

Every body complains about the environmental impact that ATVs have on the land. And surely there is.  I've seen the pictures of ONF where people have gone into the ponds and rutted them out.  Those are the idiots that are going to ruin it for everyone.  The one that cracks me the most is when groups like the Seirra club say ATVs damage dunes out in the desert.  It's friggin sand.   Any way to the point there are almost 1500 golf couses in Florida.  Doing a little research; an 18 hole course requires 150 to 175 acres.  Some are bigger than that.  That comes to over 200,000 acres if you figure on the conservative side.  Want to talk about impact on the environment... think of how many thousands upon thousands of pounds of fertilizer and pesticide get sprayed to make everything pretty and bug free. Then there is all the water they pump from deep wells.  Top that with the all the mowing every day burning fossil fuels. 

I can't imagine why there is so much phosphorous run off causing algae to choke out sea grass and problem of red tide.  The experts blame all the people moving to Florida for the low levels in the florida aquifer and that maybe the case but keeping thousands of acres green sure can't help either.   

Maybe if they did a real impact study, it wouldn't be so easy to get the zoning for such stuff.

Another issue for land to ride on is the perseption that ATVs are inherently dangerous.  Alot of people dont want to take responsibility for they're own actions.  Everybody wants to sue if they get hurt.  Somebody has to take the blame because god forbid it might be their own damn fault.   I'm sure that is another consderation that has to be taken into account.  We have to change the perseption of ATVs and ourselves the public and govenment if we are going to get any where.

By the way I don't just rant on here.  I do take the time to write representives, though it seems to be fruitless.

Ride safe.

Ken

[Fox17]

well said.

you would think if there can be 200,000 acres of stupid, useless golf courses they can give 20,000 or even just 10,000 acres to us to ride. i would pay to ride like you would at croom. even a couple more motocross tracks would be nice too. the closest place to ride is 1 hour and 15 mins away. the closest track is 1 hour and 30 mins away and were lucky! most people have to go like 2 or 3 or even 4 hours to ride!!! a couple of places with tracks and trails would be nice. if there were enough places they could even be like 5,000 acres and not be crowded.

and the sand dunes thing was funny . that doesnt make sesne why they dont want sand to be touched or moved! the wind can do it so we should be able to.

and the safety issue is stupid too. people get paralyzed and killed playin football and all kinds of other sports too. maybe not as much or as often but... its a risk we take. sign a waver that YOU are responsible for your injures.