Does God exist? This thread is not meant to be a debate!

[Chuck_Norris]

Paul Great to see you read the book that myself and Jay suggested. Myself an Jay are actually good friends. I have learned quite a bit from him. I jumped at the chance to pick up the books he mentioned way back when to feed the never ending thirst and quest for the word of God.
In that same respect, I can read something and you can read the same thing and get a different point of view. That is what sounds like has taken place, in that perspective that is what makes us unique with the ability to formulate our oun opinions. Dont just stop there I hope that it encourages you to press on with other manuscripts. The Lord said"Seek and you will find"
 Us as humans have a hard time believing in something that we can not physically see,touch, smell or taste. That is where Faith plays a huge role. Without the Cross, death and resurrection of Christ there would be no Christianity. It is resurrectional Faith that has surrvived all these years. Signs and wonders through the world pose clear evidence of the Life outlined in the Bible
 You can go to Jeruselm just as I  via the Navy and be amazed in the revelations there. Quite truthfully that is what sealed it for me.  In the news recently archaeologist have revisited the site believed to be Noahs Arch, http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-05.htm
under those pretence that we have to have physical proof what is to come of the Nay sayers. Sure they will refute that as being anything but. It is just to much of a coincidence to me.

[Paul_S]

Paul Great to see you read the book that myself and Jay suggested. Myself an Jay are actually good friends. I have learned quite a bit from him. I jumped at the chance to pick up the books he mentioned way back when to feed the never ending thirst and quest for the word of God.
In that same respect, I can read something and you can read the same thing and get a different point of view. That is what sounds like has taken place, in that perspective that is what makes us unique with the ability to formulate our oun opinions. Dont just stop there I hope that it encourages you to press on with other manuscripts. The Lord said"Seek and you will find" 

Hi Chuck, I am still looking. Only an idiot would think that the outcome from your beliefs (eternity in heaven - opposed to the outcome from mine, rotting to dust in a pine box) is not far better, but I am afraid it just does not seem plausible.

[Mudneck]

Hey just a thought?
I am far from religious. But with all this info everyone gives out for Heaven & Hell who has actually been to either? Or for that matter know of anyone that has been & come back?Where is the rule book and itinerary?The Moslems think the martars get 21 virgins and they truly believe that as well? I respect your beliefs but without an actual review from someone who has been and come back to any of these places I will stay on the sidelines for this!Without proof it seems to be alot of he said she said fiction going on here.....................................

[JayDawg]

Paul S,

 I read your thoughts on people who call themselves Christians but kill animals. First realize that when man sinned in the Garden of Eden, the Bible says God made skins to cover Adam and his wife because they realized they were naked. Well, in order to have made the skins God had to kill an animal. Next, before Jesus died God required animal sacrifices to temporarily cover mans sins. God has also made it clear in the Bible that man is higher that any animal and has dominion over them. You are correct though that we should not just go and kil an animal for no reason. Man was originally given charge over the earth and told to care for it. While it is not a sin for us to hunt or fish or kill an animal for food or need, I don't necissarily think it is a good idea to only kill for just sport or for no good reason. God has never said He is for waisting His creations or anything else. The only time we see in the Bible man killing an animal is for food, sacrifices (which are no longer required because Jesus has now died for our sins), need such as clothes or skins for making shelter and so forth. But we do not see anywhere in the Bible where we are to just hunt to kill for the heck of it and God condones it. God places value on life even the life of an animal. That is why when animal sacrifices took place it was actually a very somber thing. The priests or the person who has sinned were required to kill the animal and let it bleed out until it had died. God was showing His people how costly that sin was because the only thing that would pay for it was the sheddding of innocent blood. The animals had to pay the temporary price until Jesus came. Because Jesus is God in the flesh and was the only person to ever live a sinless life, when He died, His blood that was shed was innocent but at the same time, was the final thing that would pay for all sins.

[JayDawg]

Hey just a thought?
I am far from religious. But with all this info everyone gives out for Heaven & Hell who has actually been to either? Or for that matter know of anyone that has been & come back?Where is the rule book and itinerary?The Moslems think the martars get 21 virgins and they truly believe that as well? I respect your beliefs but without an actual review from someone who has been and come back to any of these places I will stay on the sidelines for this!Without proof it seems to be alot of he said she said fiction going on here.....................................

There is a book called 21 minutes in hell that a real estate agent from California wrote. I forget his name but can find out for you. I have only read parts of the book so I am not sure if the man died and went to hell or if God temporarily allowed his spirit to leave his body and go there but the man gives a very detailed picture of hell and then let's the readers know why God allowed him to go there for 21 minutes. I have also known of several people who have died and come back to life. Both saved and unsaved. Funny thing is the ones who knew Jesus went to heaven but Jesus had them come back for a reason. The ones who didn't, also went to hell but once they were allowed to come back, they are now saved and have used what has happened to them as a ministry to bring others to the Lord!

My own experience is this. I have never died or been to either place. But I know what place I will be going when I do die or the Rapture happens. When I was around 6 or 7 years old a lady showed up at our church after a Sunday evening service. If I remember correctly she had dabbled in some things of the occult like playing with a Ouja board (sp?) She said certain things that were not normal started happening in her home soon afterwards and she wanted some prayer. My faily gathered around her, layed hands on her and started praying for her. Within about a minute, she went into a transe like state and we heard a very demonic voice which she would have not been able to make start speaking through her. This demon was trying to tell my family to leave it alone and her alone and that she was his. My family continued to pray for 3 to 4 hours and then finally after several hours of listening to this thing curse God, and try it's best to keep this woman possessed, it let her loose with the loudest scream I have ever heard. It was so loud that it would be physically impossible for a human to make this loud of a noise. Now keep in mind, that I was about 6 or 7, and this was my family who I knew very well who prayed over this lady. Therefore I know for a fact what had happend was very real. Well since I have wittnessed first hand a demonic force possess a person, I know they exist. If they exist then so does God as well as Satan. What is interesting though is this demon cursed God and Jesus and trembled at His name! But at no time did thatDemon ever mention Buddah, or Muhamed or any of these other false gods. The reason is simple. God has made 1 way for salvation. If there was more than 1 way Jesus' death would be pointless because something else for salvation could be done. Well because Satan also knows there is only 1 way to salvation, he has made 100's of religeons to confuse man in getting him to stray from the 1 true way. In addition, Satan is so crafty he will make some of those religeons as close to the 1 true way as he can. They may be 90 to 95% like the 1 true way but even though they are 90 to 95% like the 1 true way, they arew NOT the 1 true way to God. The Bible tells us that Satan was able to decieve 1/3rd of the angels in heaven and that they were all cast out and made into demons. Well if Satan can do this with anglels who were in God's presence and saw Him for who He is, then how easy is it for him to decieve us. One day God will make those that have been forgiven a little higher than the angels because of what we have had to go through but be warned that Satan is very deceptive and his entire purpose is to destroy all of God's creations.

[tony pitts]

you all have some very strong beliefs. I am sad to say that's all they are. he said she said not what god said. if you think god exist that's fine. if he is up there, and he keeps letting so called priest and preachers molest children the way they have been doing for years, he needs to wake up and strike these sick people down dead. because if i had these kind of powers these people wouldn't exist.
 P.S. don't reply to this unless you can prove it. not by he said she said real facts because there are so many sick people in in this world I don't believe anything without proof

[trx#9]

I think all you bible huggers are hurting your cause with a that jibberish thats being type.    Chuck- I think I found the ARK at croom over by hermans hill.

[Chuck_Norris]

[ Only an idiot would think that the outcome from your beliefs (eternity in heaven - opposed to the outcome from mine, rotting to dust in a pine box) is not far better, but I am afraid it just does not seem plausible.

Main Entry: id·i·ot
Pronunciation: 'i-dE-&t
Function: noun
from Latin idiota ignorant person, from Greek idiOtEs one in a private station, layman, ignorant person, from idios one's own,
1 usually offensive : a person affected with idiocy
2 : a foolish or stupid person
- idiot adjective


Don’t fit the description sorry

I think all you bible huggers are hurting your cause with a that jibberish thats being type.    Chuck- I think I found the ARK at croom over by hermans hill.

From what I am seeing 9 pages of inquires 207 post and 2038 reads is not hurting the cause, 9 pages and 2038 reads says that someone may actually be reading this entire thread with an open mind and have questions that are being addressed. Just as much as you feel that it is hurting someone, I believe someone is being lifted spiritually. Bottom line is we have to this day co-exsisted (believers and non-believers).  Through the time of the Flood, through Sodom and Gomorra the parting of the Red Sea and many trials past and present. The fact is that some under no circumstance will ever come to accept a relationship with Christ and according to the Bible they will be left behind. I challenge you the nonbelievers if you are dead set in your ways as I am in the opposite show me irrefutable proof that there is no God, further more that nothing in the Bible ever occurred. To Tony Pitts contentions I don’t want to hear" well if I were God I would......."  Or "this is going on why would a true God in Heaven allow this." I want Documentation. Physical evidence. Win me over to the dark side LUKE
I stand by the Bible it has to this day stood every challenge thrown at it. It has not been disproved. Set aside the fact that it is a religious document and study it in a foundation of historical nature. I have never personally met George Washington but some where I read he was the first president of the United States, I never met Christopher Columbus but there is a book or 2 that said he discovered America and we are taught this via historical documents. Check out the writings of the May Flower Compact.
The only reason people don’t want to accept the way of the Bible or acknowledge it is because it hinders the way that they currently live their lives. It is easier to act in sinful nature than to follow guidelines set forth in the Bible.

[Paul_S]

Only an idiot would think that the outcome from your beliefs (eternity in heaven - opposed to the outcome from mine, rotting to dust in a pine box) is not far better, but I am afraid it just does not seem plausible.

Main Entry: id·i·ot
Pronunciation: 'i-dE-&t
Function: noun
from Latin idiota ignorant person, from Greek idiOtEs one in a private station, layman, ignorant person, from idios one's own,
1 usually offensive : a person affected with idiocy
2 : a foolish or stupid person
- idiot adjective


Don’t fit the description sorry

Thanks for the attempted correction, but why would you write this  "Don’t fit the description sorry"??  According to your cut and pasting,  an idiot is a foolish or stupid person.

Do you not think that it would be a foolish or stupid person that would want to go through life expecting to spend eternity decomposing in a pine box, opposed to thinking that there was an afterlife waiting for them in heaven?

The point being made was that the benefits your way of thinking are obviously better than the benefits (none) of mine. It is just next to impossible to start believing in something just because you or JayDawg or anyone else says it is true.

[gearhead400]

when it is your time to believe in GOD, you will believe. i still wonder why GOD lets all the bad things happen around the world??? and i still believe. believeing in GOD and eternal life is just like retirement, you save and save and invest and save in hope that when you retire you will reap the rewards for all your hard work...........but what if you die before you retire? all that work and wasted money for nothing! but you still save just incase so you can have everything you want. FAITH IS FREE so im saving it in hopes that when i die i will be in heaven instead of a pine box 6 feet deep.

                                                                                  thanks JESUS
                                                                                  Shawn

amen
Thats exactly how i feel.
your a good guy shawn.

[Chuck_Norris]

Only an idiot would think that the outcome from your beliefs (eternity in heaven - opposed to the outcome from mine, rotting to dust in a pine box) is not far better, but I am afraid it just does not seem plausible.

Main Entry: id·i·ot
Pronunciation: 'i-dE-&t
Function: noun
from Latin idiota ignorant person, from Greek idiOtEs one in a private station, layman, ignorant person, from idios one's own,
1 usually offensive : a person affected with idiocy
2 : a foolish or stupid person
- idiot adjective


Don’t fit the description sorry

Thanks for the attempted correction, but why would you write this  "Don’t fit the description sorry"??  According to your cut and pasting,  an idiot is a foolish or stupid person.

Do you not think that it would be a foolish or stupid person that would want to go through life expecting to spend eternity decomposing in a pine box, opposed to thinking that there was an afterlife waiting for them in heaven?

The point being made was that the benefits your way of thinking are obviously better than the benefits (none) of mine. It is just next to impossible to start believing in something just because you or JayDawg or anyone else says it is true.

This is not a personal attack nor am I singling out anyone person directly it is however what is written,  Perhaps the most astonishing statement I have ever read in the Bible is found in Psalm 14:1.  King David declares, The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
I dont fit that description of being stupid. Clearly a stupid person could not have the mental capacity to choose, therefore an educated man can choose to believe or not to believe, subsequent to the desicion there is consequence and reward with the choice.
Myself and JayDawg are merely a % or a fraction there of who join the ranks in having faith that things of the Bible are indeed truth.   

[Paul_S]

I dont fit that description of being stupid. Clearly a stupid person could not have the mental capacity to choose, therefore an educated man can choose to believe or not to believe, subsequent to the desicion there is consequence and reward with the choice. 

Re-read what I posted, I never said you were stupid, quite the opposite actually, I said I was.

[Flea_Jumper]

Wow its been so long that I almost missed this discussion.  Interesting to see both sides.  I know most of the guys involved and some I dont but the the overall consensus of none belivers is to blame God for all the bad things that happen, and for the belivers is to blame Satan.  Where and when is it mans fault?  God gave us free will, its our choice to blow people up, let them starve, kill each other, rape children ect.  If you truly know history in general, than you know hell and Satan are man made and were added to the bilbe by the church late in history to control man.  So you really cant blame Satan.  HELL DOES NOT EXIST!  Free will, DONT BLAME GOD!  Can man accept blame himself?  NO!  If every American where to buy a used car instead of a new one and send the surplus over to the people who are starving, there would be no starvation.  And thats just America, imagine if the whole world were to do it. 

Try to look at Jesus as a supervisor.  Man needed some kind of control. Without control we would just continue to kill each other at random and without reason.  God sent him down to intervine and set us on the right path.  Man needed control because of our mind frame. 

The problem is we are STS(service to self) society .  Every thing we do in the end is to make ourselves feel good.  If you are true to yourself and can go without lying to your heart ask, WHAT DO I DO THAT ISENT FOR ME IN THE END?  Even loving your children makes you feel good so, you trick yourself into thinking is selfless but in the end it makes you feel good. If you truly cant admit that than you are lying to yourselves, thats just the way God made us.

My business partner is a Biblical Scholar who has  been studying the Bible for over 25 years and not in a religious sense, and has written several books on the Bible,  will tell you the same thing I will, the Bible is full of error and is easlily taken apart.  If you were to actually write the text in its actual language the Bible would read completely different than todays versions.  There is alot lost in translation and time.But that does not take from the main message that its trying to give, LOVE EACH OTHER AND TREAT EACH OTHER LIKE YOUR BROTHER.  Its very simple yet overlooked.  I dont believe that Jesus was sinless(big debate in our office), I believe that he was married and had children(there is a very little know book written by Jesus).  He was like any other man except that he treated everyone like his own brother.  His teachingw were to love one another and not be jugdemental. He was so selfless that he gave his life for us.

In the end it does not matter wether you belive or not, if you belive the bible teaching than you will be forgiven anyways because God is a forgiving God and will show mercy, but if you belive than good for you. 

Take a good look around and share in this wonderfull place that God has given us to enjoy.  Share the love with each other and enjoy your time together.  This place is to grand for there not to be a higher power and creator.

[Chuck_Norris]

Jessie good to see you chime in, I can agree with about 75% of what you said, even more interesting, I'd like to pick the mind of your business partner and read the books you mentioned. or better yet slide over to www.quadsforchrist.net and lets talk there

P.S.  are you going to Durhmantown, call me

[MIARAP1]

These athiest thoughts are the devils work... Open your mind and free your soul... We only use 10% of our brain so it is impossible to understand Gods work and why things are the way they are... But be sure that one day it will all be very clear, but then it might be to late...

[Chuck_Norris]

These athiest thoughts are the devils work... Open your mind and free your soul... We only use 10% of our brain so it is impossible to understand Gods work and why things are the way they are... But be sure that one day it will all be very clear, but then it might be to late...

Welcome aboard MIARAP1, couldnt agree with you more.
glad to see another fellow believer come aboard
feel free to check out www.quadsforchrist.net to fellowship with other believers
 

[Joedirt]

You know I actually liked this thread until it became a One way thinking thread... It is no longer an Open Minded thread. I do not think it is right some of the insinuations the "Believers" have made.

Thank you for ruining a very informative thread.

[bigscrub79]

You know I actually liked this thread until it became a One way thinking thread... It is no longer an Open Minded thread. I do not think it is right some of the insinuations the "Believers" have made.

Thank you for ruining a very informative thread.

I couldnt agree with you more Joe. There are a few on here that just tell you how they feel and leave it at that but there are others that are constantly calling names and telling you that you are wrong. That is part of the reason I dont visit the above mentioned site anymore. I am a christian but have a hard time talking to most about it because they apparently have a direct line to Gods phone, I mean after all they are right and someone else is wrong. Its just that christianity seems to leave the door in these religous debates so much that I cant stand it.

[Flea_Jumper]

Joe and Big Scrub, I agree with you both.  I dont claim any denomonation for that reason.  If I were to post what really is on my mind it would stir so much that its not worth my time to try to discuss reasons why we think our brains use only ten percent of its capacity, what Jesus really was doing here and so forth.  I probably have one of the most open minds of anyone you will meet and love to share theories with those of the same mind frame.  I will not waste my time with those that as you said have Gods direct line. LOL  If you would like to share I would love to here.  Since there is no proof its all right and there is no one person or religion that is 100% correct.

God Bless.

[CABLEGUY1]

Why don't some of you guys go back and read some of the responses from the non believers. Alot of them are ridiculous statements that were made just to get a rise out of someone who is strong in their faith. Cmon  saying to Chuck Norris"I found the ARK at Croom?" What an idiotic statement meant just to ridicule ones belief.How about " Why would the pope need bullet proof glass around him?If he's afraid to die were all screwed.What a genius. What about"I just went out and did doughnuts in my back yard and it left the outline of the Virgin Mary"  Don't forget "go sell crazy some where else" really respectfull of someones religous beliefs isn't it? Oh yeah how about "theres no god unless you believe in fairy tales" and then he finishes with " if you believe in that stuff I got your respect?" _{How can you expect to have a rational educated disscussion with that mentality or lack of respect? I didn't see the " believers " ridicule the non believers opinions, all I saw was them giving their opinions and proclaiming their beliefs in a mature fashion. I think the believers are one sided AND the non believers are one sided but "A FEW" of the non believers state their case in an insulting manner. [/glow]}

[trx#9]

Why don't some of you guys go back and read some of the responses from the non believers. Alot of them are ridiculous statements that were made just to get a rise out of someone who is strong in their faith. Cmon  saying to Chuck Norris"I found the ARK at Croom?" What an idiotic statement meant just to ridicule ones belief.How about " Why would the pope need bullet proof glass around him?If he's afraid to die were all screwed.What a genius. What about"I just went out and did doughnuts in my back yard and it left the outline of the Virgin Mary"  Don't forget "go sell crazy some where else" really respectfull of someones religous beliefs isn't it? Oh yeah how about "theres no god unless you believe in fairy tales" and then he finishes with " if you believe in that stuff I got your respect?" _{How can you expect to have a rational educated disscussion with that mentality or lack of respect? I didn't see the " believers " ridicule the non believers opinions, all I saw was them giving their opinions and proclaiming their beliefs in a mature fashion. I think the believers are one sided AND the non believers are one sided but "A FEW" of the non believers state their case in an insulting manner. [/glow]}

What do you expect cableguy1 they believe in a imaginary man in the sky, that he has all these powers but can't use them or show himself. Go sell crazy somewhere else that was a good one.

[Inyourdraft2000]

"Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"

This topic does not have a positive end in sight, Though there are few post made w/ some
mature intelect most are typical and nothing surprising. For the sake of the web site and what it supposed to stand for in my opinion we should just agree to disagree and leave it alone.
Theology says How can 2 walk together less they agree. There is a reason why God gave us 2 ears 2 eyes and 1 Mouth, we should see and listen twice as much as we run our mouths and many have shown that their mouth is so big that when they speak you couldn't see that they have eyes and ears anyway. The focus has been lost here ladies and gentlemen so lets get back the  the forumns roots and get on w/ life.

[CABLEGUY1]

I agree. Fishahallic if you lock the topic I will give you $1.00, a used fishing lure and a coupon for a free movie.

[Chuck_Norris]

"Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"

This topic does not have a positive end in sight, Though there are few post made w/ some
mature intelect most are typical and nothing surprising. For the sake of the web site and what it supposed to stand for in my opinion we should just agree to disagree and leave it alone.
Theology says How can 2 walk together less they agree. There is a reason why God gave us 2 ears 2 eyes and 1 Mouth, we should see and listen twice as much as we run our mouths and many have shown that their mouth is so big that when they speak you couldn't see that they have eyes and ears anyway. The focus has been lost here ladies and gentlemen so lets get back the  the forumns roots and get on w/ life.

Well said 
2 famous quotes:
1) You can love to hate me or hate to love me.
2) I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for what I am not
I have a strong passion for my Family, My Faith and my Job everything else just doesnt matter

[FishaHallic]

Did someone say FREE movie  , I agree it has run its course.  Thanks for the replies