two dead in ONF found miles from camp site

[yunt2ride]

Any bets it was an angry young white man?

And I take it only white men get angry. I think not. Look in the prison and see what the population is. There is bad in every race.

[GSPKurt]

One more reason I never ride unarmed.

hippies in the woods? Mabey i'll pack some heat like GSPkurt

Just remember, It's illegal to carry a pistol in a National Forest. If your out there you better carry a long gun.

Have you heard the saying- "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"?

[GSPKurt]

Any bets it was an angry young white man?

And I take it only white men get angry. I think not. Look in the prison and see what the population is. There is bad in every race.

What he said.

[LIV2RIDE]

One more reason I never ride unarmed.

hippies in the woods? Mabey i'll pack some heat like GSPkurt

Just remember, It's illegal to carry a pistol in a National Forest. If your out there you better carry a long gun.

Have you heard the saying- "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"?

I absolutely agree! I carry everywhere I go, I figure I'll deal with a minor weapons charge and still have my life rather than be dead. I just wanted everyone to be clear on the law of the forest.
 Although I don't see how it can be "clear" to anyone. It is illegal to carry a pistol in a national forest and it is illegal to fire a pistol in a national forest, yet there are firing ranges in almost all of the national forests.

Steve, I don't think a WMA stamp allows one to carry or fire a pistol, only a rifle or shotgun.
 
 I'm not clear at all the laws. I just know when I got my CCW permit a while back, I read all the CCW laws and one of them was no carry in a national forest

[Eworm]

Scary! RIP.... I carry mine all the time.

[kawGIRL]

I absolutely agree! I carry everywhere I go, I figure I'll deal with a minor weapons charge and still have my life rather than be dead. I just wanted everyone to be clear on the law of the forest.
 Although I don't see how it can be "clear" to anyone. It is illegal to carry a pistol in a national forest and it is illegal to fire a pistol in a national forest, yet there are firing ranges in almost all of the national forests.

Steve, I don't think a WMA stamp allows one to carry or fire a pistol, only a rifle or shotgun.
 
 I'm not clear at all the laws. I just know when I got my CCW permit a while back, I read all the CCW laws and one of them was no carry in a national forest

You are 100% correct!  I'll take my chances also, I have a CWP and if it's concealed who else knows about it?  But it there when I need it    I never leave home without anymore (My New Years Resolution) what good it doing me at home?  Everyday you here of someone else getting robbed or shot in a nice part of town 

[mikeE36]

i'll be 18 soon and i'm thinking about buying a gun. my parents never owned any guns. What would be a good first handgun?

[TurboBanshee_kid]

You have to be 21 sorry!

[mikeE36]

You have to be 21 sorry!

21 for a gun?

[#74 crf250r]

you have to be 21 to buy a hand gun and own one legaly and its 18 for a rifle.

[enniehall]

On a lighter note a toddler's elmo book is asking "Who wants to die?!" instead of "Who wants to go potty?"  It's a sick joke the mother says. 

Yep, very sick indeed!

[Pastense]

The first firearm anyone should own, especially as a youth, in my humble opinion would be the Marlin Model 60 .22 caliber rifle.  It is a 14 shot semi automatic tube fed rifle that is probably the most popular rifle in the world.  Though there is no kick to this weapon, nor does it have any true power to speak of, it is a weapon that easily transitions from father to son.  It allows you to learn the respect neccesary to handle more advanced weaponary later on if you so choose.  In is both inexpensive, and reliable. 

Good luck.
 

[Ida_Mann]

I like the single shot .22 rifle myself,,,,it's what I learned to AIM with, not just shoot a bunch of times and hope to hit something ;-)

I still have the one I learned with and I have one that was left to me by my grandfather that is rather rare and German-made with a bull-barrell,,,,,still shoot it and still love it.

Id@

[AlterEgo]

Hunting accident? Give me a break.

As far as concealed carry in the Nat. Forest, here's what I could find and it seems to indicate that you CAN carry concealed in the forest.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/possession.html

From this site:

Possession Restrictions
The following is a list of places where you are restricted from carrying a weapon or firearm even if you have a license. Please note that this is a simplified list. The places marked by an asterisk (*) may have exceptions or additional restrictions. See Section 790.06 (12), Florida Statutes for a complete listing.

any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05
any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station
any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse
any courtroom*
any polling place
any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district
any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof
any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms
any school administration building
any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption*
any elementary or secondary school facility
any area technical center
any college or university facility*
inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport*
any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law

http://www.packing.org/faq/

From this site:

Q: Carry In National Forest
A: If you can legally carry in the state the National Forest is in you can carry in the National Forest. You can not carry into any buildings on the National Forest as they are owned by the Federal Government.

If somebody can find otherwise, please let everyone know. In the meantime, I WILL be carrying there.

[susieblazer]

  Feel safe when we are riding with our niece( sheriff deputy) in ONF as she always has hers on and off duty!!

[Ida_Mann]

I would be carrying in ONF right now if my pistol wasn't needing repair,,,for some reason the firing pin won't hit hard enough.

Id@

[themensh]

  The others were correct....it is ILLEGAL to carry a handgun into the National Forest without a permit (except on a highway that goes through it).  I forget where I read this, but am looking for the reference.
  I like to think the 2nd ammendment would suffice....especially out in the
woods/wilderness.
   Kind of hard to dial 9-1-1 out in the forest and expect someone to come to your rescue.....and sometimes giving a crook 'what they want and let them go away' does not work so well either.

   Chuck 'roast

[themensh]

  I also found this..for those so inclined:

Quote "There is a movement, started on Packing.org to email Ms. Gale Norton, Secretary of the Interior, to allow CCW holders to carry their weapons legally within National Parks. Please cut and paste a copy of the email below into an email and send it, too. Who knows, you may be able to change the policy. We won't change it by doing nothing.

Be sure to add your own name and address to the end "

==================

Ms. Gale Norton
Secretary of the Interior
U.S. Department of the Interior
Dept. HG, 1849 C Street, NW
Washington, DC 20240
Phone: (202) 208-7351
gale_norton@ios.doi.gov

Dear Secretary Norton,

The regulations for federal parks need to be revised. Any citizen who is trusted by a state to carry a handgun for self-defense needs to be allowed to carry that handgun in federal parks. This can be accomplished easily using the same mechanism that is used in federal forests: have the park regulations assimilate the host state's firearms laws.

Criminals know no boundaries. Parks, often with remote areas, are not immune from violent crime. My right to defend my life and the lives of my family should not end at an artificial boundary that violent criminals will never respect.

- We want the NPS to recognize state issued concealed weapons licenses via a change to 36CFR2.4.

- National Parks are the site of over 4,400 serious crimes each year, including 10 murders, 132 rapes, 70 robberies, 3 kidnappings, 212 aggravated assaults, 488 burglaries, 3,277 larcenies and thefts, 130 motor vehicle thefts, and 104 arsons.

- We can expect to prevent 5 murders each year, 26 rapes, 96 aggravated assaults, 36 robberies, and 107 burglaries by allowing lawful defensive firearms within National Parks.

- Dangerous animals attack park visitors and park employees.

- Citizens with concealed weapons licenses are the most law abiding sector of society and therefore least likely to engage in unauthorized use of firearms.

- Criminals already ignore the gun ban and laws prohibiting violent crimes. The gun ban does not protect park visitors or employees.

- The gun ban is un-constitutional. President Bush has stated the position of the Administration is that the 2A protects an individual right to keep and bear arms, yet this ban prohibits citizens from exercising their 2A rights.

- Demand that the NPS explain how regulation 36CFR2.4 passes "strict scrutiny".

- The gun ban is contrary to Chapter 8 of the NPS Management Policy, paragraph 8.2.5.1 Visitor Safety, which states “The saving of human life will take precedence over all other management actions as the Park Service strives to protect human life and provide for injury- free visits."

Law abiding gun owners expect the Bush administration to live up to their promises to protect our Second Amendment civil rights. Please let me know what you are going to do to protect my right to self-defense.


Sincerely,
[name and address]

[AlterEgo]

Hey Chuck,

Would sure like to see some sort of reference for your info if you can find it to clear this up. All I could find in my search were the two references I posted (one from the state that does NOT list a national forest as off limits to carry with a concealed carry license and the other from packing.org that claims the forest assumes the laws of the state in reference to carrying). You said it is illegal to carry without a permit - would this be the concealed carry permit being discussed?

Also, hunting regulations allow for hunting with a handgun in ONF. May be different out of hunting season.

[foreman1]

I'll take my chances with the law with regards to carrying off season.
I've had a CCW permit for many years now and dont agree with the no firearms rule that many areas have .

You never know who you're going to run into out there. If you got one carry it , it aint doin' ya any good in the  dresser drawer , especially women.

[wilburz]

why not just carry UN-CONCEALED? Better to let the scum bags know you mean bussiness from a far right? You can carry two six-shooters, one on each hip in a holster in plain view no problem.

[AintSkeered]

This may have been done by the women's stalker. And, carrying a weapon is a good idea, but, Billy Bob ain't going to approach you with his gun drawn now is he? And, what if he pciks you off from afar? Unfortunately, the encroachment of "civilization" may have caught up with ONF, so I guess camping in a group is the only way to go there.

[AlterEgo]

Carrying a sidearm is a good idea as a deterent against Billy Bob (Sorry if there's any Billy Bob's in this chat - no offense) and unruly rattlers. When common sense and safety are foremost, there's nothing wrong with carrying. It's a right.

An no, it won't help you against a scoped rifle out of site. But let's put it all back into perspective and move a little closer to reality. Two people were killed and that is a tragedy. Our prayers go out to them and their family. But, in the last 5, or 10 years, how many times has something like this happened compared to the thousands of camping and riding hours put in at ONF, or Florida for that matter. Yes, one time is too many, but it won't stop me from riding or being scared when I ride/camp. Group camping or riding is always a good idea for many reasons.

Still trying to find something Definitive (no guesses, or I overheard this from my grandma's second cousin) on carry laws in the forest- concealed or not, in and out of hunting season. Nice to have the facts, then decide when, where to carry, and what you face if you happen to be skirting the laws.

[Pastense]

When dealing with an issue as delicate as firearms I find it best to be short, relative, and to the point........

Chai Vang
Saywer County, WI
21 Nov 04
6 Dead

Nothing is above impossibilty
Always protect yourself.
Lesson learned

[gery350]

Nothing is above impossibilty

i like that qoute.
good one.