24 Percent Rise Renews Calls For Restrictions, Ban On Use By Anyone Under 16

[JackL]

Not if they are ridden responsibly...I think.  Only when you start to exceed rider/machine limits do crashed occur. 

This just isn't true. I just read a story where a farmer who has ridden most of his life was climbing an embankment as he had done 1000 times before, had it flip on top of him and nearly drown him. I have seen dozens of stories very similar, and have had many close calls my self not doing anything crazy. You have a Big Red, you must have had a few yourself!!

Bicycles are powered by humans own power....  

That doesn't stop them from killing and injuring children every day. More than ATV's in fact.

We best be glad they're trying....cause some parents aren't.  My opinion is atv's will be banned eventually.    ...unless things change.  Just my 2 cents.   

I would have laughed at this in 1985, but now I don't know....I think there is so many out there at this point it doesn't matter, and the manufacturers have quite a bit of juice now. It ain't poor old Honda fighting alone.


If they want to pass a law, it should involve stiff penalty's for irresponsible parents IMO.

I see your point about kids too small on a big ATV & I agree, UNLESS you turn that screw in on the thumb throttle to govern it down,
IMO it shouldn't go by age, but by height & size like at Disney you gotta be so tall to ride the roller coaster or whatever.
Some kids are pretty big for there age.

That is a good point.

[BIGREDTIDE]

I see your point about kids too small on a big ATV & I agree, UNLESS you turn that screw in on the thumb throttle to govern it down,
IMO it shouldn't go by age, but by height & size like at Disney you gotta be so tall to ride the roller coaster or whatever.
Some kids are pretty big for there age.

See your point...but what about maturity level?  Just like sports....some big boys or girls...but they aren't any good.  (That sounds mean I know..... )

[BIGREDTIDE]

Not if they are ridden responsibly...I think.  Only when you start to exceed rider/machine limits do crashed occur. 

This just isn't true. I just read a story where a farmer who has ridden most of his life was climbing an embankment as he had done 1000 times before, had it flip on top of him and nearly drown him. I have seen dozens of stories very similar, and have had many close calls my self not doing anything crazy. You have a Big Red, you must have had a few yourself!!

Bicycles are powered by humans own power....  

That doesn't stop them from killing and injuring children every day. More than ATV's in fact.

We best be glad they're trying....cause some parents aren't.  My opinion is atv's will be banned eventually.    ...unless things change.  Just my 2 cents.   

I would have laughed at this in 1985, but now I don't know....I think there is so many out there at this point it doesn't matter, and the manufacturers have quite a bit of juice now. It ain't poor old Honda fighting alone.


If they want to pass a law, it should involve stiff penalty's for irresponsible parents IMO.

I see your point about kids too small on a big ATV & I agree, UNLESS you turn that screw in on the thumb throttle to govern it down,
IMO it shouldn't go by age, but by height & size like at Disney you gotta be so tall to ride the roller coaster or whatever.
Some kids are pretty big for there age.

That is a good point.

Not if they are ridden responsibly...I think.  Only when you start to exceed rider/machine limits do crashed occur. 

This just isn't true. I just read a story where a farmer who has ridden most of his life was climbing an embankment as he had done 1000 times before, had it flip on top of him and nearly drown him. I have seen dozens of stories very similar, and have had many close calls my self not doing anything crazy. You have a Big Red, you must have had a few yourself!!  These are very rare cases.  I never said it couldn't happen...just not likely.

[BIGREDTIDE]

Not if they are ridden responsibly...I think.  Only when you start to exceed rider/machine limits do crashed occur. 

This just isn't true. I just read a story where a farmer who has ridden most of his life was climbing an embankment as he had done 1000 times before, had it flip on top of him and nearly drown him. I have seen dozens of stories very similar, and have had many close calls my self not doing anything crazy. You have a Big Red, you must have had a few yourself!!

Honestly...I haven't on the Big Red.  Being it's old I kinda just slow ride on it to take care of it.  Now when I went to Durhamtown in March and did the ATV Iron Man race...I pushed the heck outta that trike, and it has NO BRAKES.  Closest call I had was it was muddy and went to turn into a corner and with all the mud...there was no traction...so I'm turned left and I keep going straight and into a 14" wide pine tree.  I simply downshifted twice and it slowd me enough to where I tapped it.    ...only put a small bend into the front rack.  I'm 35 and been riding 3-wheelers since I was 14.  I consider myself very experienced.

In this case....I was pushing beyond the Big Red's limits...even though factors like mud & no brakes led to tapping the tree.  I was ready & prepared for when it happened.  That's maturity and experience that most young riders wouldn't have.

To note...I was pushing the Big Red beyond what it was designed for but not overly so....becuase it has no brakes and the lack of traction out there that day.

I grew up on an '84 110....with no brakes too!    it's not really funny...but I rode the heck outta that thing...never onced wrecked it...few close calls....but again!..that was when riding over it's limit's.

Appreciate your maturity in back & forth online conversation.     You too KB!   

[KB]

This just isn't true. I just read a story where a farmer who has ridden most of his life was climbing an embankment as he had done 1000 times before, had it flip on top of him and nearly drown him. I have seen dozens of stories very similar, and have had many close calls my self not doing anything crazy.

Jack, There is probably way more farmers killed on Tractors than ATV's, & just about most Farmers prob have ATV's, I'd say at least 2/3 do.

My Great Uncle was when he was bush hogging around his pond & got a little to close to the edge & the Tractor rolled & pinned him under the water,
the most craziest thing about it is that his son(my Uncle), fixed the Tractor, inherited the land & developed it & built custom houses on it. This land is in Morgan City in North AL.
My Uncle got to close to the mountain edge/cliff with the same tractor while he was bush hogging it & the same Tractor flipped over & killed him !
Now my cousins have the land but I think they left the Tractor at the bottom of the cliff.

[JackL]

Honestly...I haven't on the Big Red.  Being it's old I kinda just slow ride on it to take care of it.  Now when I went to Durhamtown in March and did the ATV Iron Man race...I pushed the heck outta that trike, and it has NO BRAKES.  Closest call I had was it was muddy and went to turn into a corner and with all the mud...there was no traction...so I'm turned left and I keep going straight and into a 14" wide pine tree.  I simply downshifted twice and it slowd me enough to where I tapped it.    ...only put a small bend into the front rack.  I'm 35 and been riding 3-wheelers since I was 14.  I consider myself very experienced.

I like you! I'm 38 and got my first Yamaha 80 dirt bike at 8 from someones trash on bulk day. It had no brakes or a clutch cable. How i never broke the tranny is anyones guess. To be honest, I had a few spills on it (no helmet either) BUT I hurt myself bad jumping my 'Stroker' human powered bike over a huge drainage ditch. I got a green atc90 when I was 14 and it was serious junk, but it never hurt me at all. I have a crazy no brakes 200s I ride once in a while now. I also have a scary fast ATC250R that does have brakes and I wear a helmet with it. Anyone who has ridden with me will tell you I am not kind to my bikes, and most often have the throttle wide open.

In this case....I was pushing beyond the Big Red's limits...even though factors like mud & no brakes led to tapping the tree.  I was ready & prepared for when it happened.  That's maturity and experience that most young riders wouldn't have.

To note...I was pushing the Big Red beyond what it was designed for but not overly so....becuase it has no brakes and the lack of traction out there that day.

I grew up on an '84 110....with no brakes too!    it's not really funny...but I rode the heck outta that thing...never onced wrecked it...few close calls....but again!..that was when riding over it's limit's.

Appreciate your maturity in back & forth online conversation.     You too KB!   

I really think some people just don't belong on bikes and quads period. You must have known some like that, no law will ever change that!!
The parents should identify this right away or survival of the fittest will. You see people all the time you just know are going to hurt themselves, I know I do. I always think it is funny when someone on a quad asks me "aren't those things illegal" or tells me "Those aren't safe" They are usually the ones that are the most unstable riders that might as well go play a good game of Russian Roulette, it would be safer IMO.

Just crossing the street is dangerous. The law about not running people over hasn't changed that.

I also appriciate you maturity in this exchange, and not yelling at me about helmets and stuff.

[JackL]

Jack, There is probably way more farmers killed on Tractors than ATV's, & just about most Farmers prob have ATV's, I'd say at least 2/3 do.

My Great Uncle was when he was bush hogging around his pond & got a little to close to the edge & the Tractor rolled & pinned him under the water,
the most craziest thing about it is that his son(my Uncle), fixed the Tractor, inherited the land & developed it & built custom houses on it. This land is in Morgan City in North AL.
My Uncle got to close to the mountain edge/cliff with the same tractor while he was bush hogging it & the same Tractor flipped over & killed him !
Now my cousins have the land but I think they left the Tractor at the bottom of the cliff.

WOW, that really sucks. Heavy equipment is definitely a killer! Up the street from my house just a few years ago when they were wrecking a great riding spot for custom homes, the crane operator digging a lake somehow flipped it into the lake, got pinned and drowned. Growing up in Broward I have read about it hundreds of times. Tractors and front end loaders are the worst. I wonder why we never see a call to ban new construction, heavy equipment, farming or force builders to use shovels and hand tools...

[BIGREDTIDE]

I do all my fast crazy riding on 2 wheels now.  Track riding the sportbike...in FULL protective gear of course!!  Hence my avatar pic @ JGP in Jennings, FL.   

[JackL]

I do all my fast crazy riding on 2 wheels now.  Track riding the sportbike...in FULL protective gear of course!!  Hence my avatar pic @ JGP in Jennings, FL.   

Nice! I have my eye on a cr500R. Probably buy a chest protector for that.

[JackL]

Looks like I was wrong.

This doesn't change my opinion about parental responsibility, plus the numbers are so close it definitely supports a ban on both bicycles AND quads if you want to get right down to it.



Study: More kids die on ATVs than bikes
09:00 PM CDT on Monday, August 6, 2007
Associated Press

CHARLESTON, W.Va. - Children under the age of 16 are seven times more likely to ride bicycles than all-terrain vehicles, yet ATVs cause more deaths among youngsters than their peddling counterparts, according to a new study.

Jim Helmkamp, who tracks ATV statistics as director of West Virginia University's Injury Control Research Center, found that on average, 171 children died each year across the country in ATV accidents between 2000 and 2004, compared to 157 deaths from bicycle crashes.

Statistics from the National Sporting Goods Association estimate 14.2 million children ages 7-17 ride bicycles in the United States while the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission says there are about 2.2 million ATV riders under the age of 16.

The study was commissioned by the Concerned Families for ATV Safety, an organization founded in 2005 by parents who lost children in ATV accidents.

One of the founders, Carolyn Anderson of Brockton, Mass., said that for years, the ATV industry and Consumer Product Safety Commission have claimed ATVs and bicycles are comparable when they are not.

"They (industry) say ATVs aren't any more dangerous than a bicycle but we just wanted to put that to rest, for one, and to show that there is a significant problem and it's costing everybody," Anderson said.

Consumer Product Safety Commission spokesman Scott Wolfson said some people have made the comparison, but the commission does not.

"We share the same commitment as concerned parents for ATVs to reduce the number of deaths and injuries," Wolfson said.

The commission estimates there are 7.6 million four-wheel ATVs in use in the United States. Details: http://www.atvsafetynet.org/.

[cheropride]

As a parent, I will say, 171 deaths in a year is a lot.  I would also say, I see alot of irresponsible parents too, like it was said earlier, ATVS are not baby sitting devices.  But also as a parent I will also say, there is an inherit risk and yes, sometimes it scares the hell out of me.  I am not so worried about my son's driving abilities, as I am about the nit-wits that like to fly around corners and pay no respect for others.  It is a decission that I make as a parent to allow my son to ride, and at the same time, I take all the necessary precautions to keep him safe and that includes conitnues reminders of how to ride safe.  When we come up on a trail, and I see the opportunity to teach him something, like how to go thru a mud hole safely, or how to take a rough trail, I will stop and talk to him about it. 

I often wonder if they had these stats when I was a child.  I started riding horses when I was 3 years old, and by 6 years old I running barrels.  Back then, no helmets, and when we did ride usually no saddle.  Knowinig the inherit risk of both sports, I think I would rather him ride an ATV than a horse.  I horse has a mind of it own, it can be spooked, or anything.  I can't count the times I have been either thrown or fallen of a horse.  I have actually been knocked out cold a time or two, and have had then fall over right on top of me.  Yes, I was lucky, and yes my horses were my baby sitter.  I guess what I am try to say, there is risk in all we do, we must take the appropriate precautions and go from there.  I honestly feel that you are more likely to get killed driving down I-95 to get to the camp, then once I get on my 4 wheeler, but that is just my opinion.....

[papahouse]

This new report contradicts the one claiming a rise

New Consumer Product Safety Commission Report Shows Decline in ATV Injuries Involving Youth Under Age 16

ATV Industry Continues to Support State Legislation, Rider Training/Education, and Parental Supervision as Keys to Further Improving ATV Safety

IRVINE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--A report released last week by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (“CPSC 2005 Annual Report of ATV Deaths and Injuries”) shows that the number of estimated all-terrain vehicle (ATV) injuries involving children under 16 fell 10% between 2004 and 2005, and has fallen from 37% of all ATV-related injuries in 1998 to 30% in 2005.

The report also shows that the estimated injuries per 10,000 ATVs declined for the fourth year in a row and is now at its lowest point since 1998. These declines have occurred even while the number of four-wheel ATVs in use increased by 700,000 units between 2004 and 2005. The four-wheel ATV injury rate declined 9% over the same time period.

Further, the report indicates that the risk of fatality per 10,000 ATVs has declined from 1.4 per 10,000 in use in 1999 to 1.1 per 10,000 in use in 2005.

Since 1998, the number of ATVs in use has more than doubled. Yet, for the eight-year time period since the CPSC’s new injury sample and methodology has been in place, there has been no appreciable upward trend in injury risk and, as noted, the injury risk has declined since 2001 and is now at its lowest point since 1998.

“The CPSC report again shows that the commitment of the member companies of the Specialty Vehicle Institute of America to rider education, parental supervision, and state legislation is working and has resulted in a continued decline in injury and fatality rates over the past several years,” said Tim Buche, president of the SVIA. “Since 1984, the major manufacturers and distributors of ATVs in the United States have worked closely with the CPSC to implement ongoing safety initiatives. The industry applauds CPSC’s recent public education efforts to promote safe and responsible ATV use, and has supported the agency in these efforts.”

Buche added that the industry is also cooperating closely with the CPSC on the agency’s review of ATV safety standards. He said the ATV industry is committed to the safety of its customers and will continue to promote and enhance its multi-tiered efforts aimed at increasing awareness of the proper operation and use of ATVs.

“However, we remain concerned that new entrants to the U.S. market that don’t comply with the voluntary safety standards that established ATV companies adhere to are jeopardizing the safety of young riders,” he continued. “These new entrants now comprise 20 percent of the market and are undercutting the safety programs developed by established ATV companies. SVIA encourages CPSC to analyze the new entrants’ compliance with safety standards as part of the agency’s review of ATV standards.

“We want to ensure that the injury trend continues in this direction – down – so it’s more important than ever to get the word out that kids don’t belong on adult-sized ATVs, and that all riders need to follow the industry’s recommended guidelines for safe and responsible riding. The bottom line is, even one crash or injury is one too many,” said Buche.

Millions of Americans operate ATVs safely and responsibly every day. Unfortunately, more than 92% of ATV-related fatalities involve one or more behaviors that the industry strongly and visibly warns against in its rider education programs, in all its literature, and on the vehicle itself. The industry’s top priority is to continue to work with the CPSC, user groups, retail dealerships, and all others interested in promoting ATV safety to further reduce the number of accidents resulting from misuse of the product.

SVIA

Since 1983, the Specialty Vehicle Institute of America® (SVIA) has promoted the safe and responsible use of All-Terrain Vehicles (ATVs) through rider training programs, public awareness campaigns, and state legislation. The SVIA also serves as a resource for ATV research, statistics, and vehicle standards. The SVIA, based in Irvine, California, is a not-for-profit trade association sponsored by Arctic Cat, BRP, Bush Hog, Honda, John Deere, Kawasaki, Polaris, Suzuki, Tomberlin and Yamaha. For membership information, call 949.727.3727; for safety information or to enroll in the ATV RiderCourseSM nearest you, visit www.atvsafety.org and click on “Online Enrollment” or call 800.887.2887.

[papahouse]

The question you have to ask yourself is who is right, a group headed by someone that lost a child in a ATV accident or The Consumer Protection Agency. Any report needs to be non biais but I do not believe that to be the case with the report indicating the rise and calling for the ban

[cheropride]

Hey papahouse, thanks for that report, and yes like you said, always must consider the source.

The song that kept running thru my head when I was typing, "We were born to mothers who smoke & drank....", ya, know "It was a Different World"....  So true, so true.....

[JackL]

The question you have to ask yourself is who is right, a group headed by someone that lost a child in a ATV accident or The Consumer Protection Agency. Any report needs to be non biais but I do not believe that to be the case with the report indicating the rise and calling for the ban

Papahouse, thanks for posting that. When I posted that new story this morning, I had written a paragraph about how you can do just about anything with statistics to make you sound right, but I didnt want to come off like I was trying to avoid saying I was wrong.

I believe both stories have an agendas behind them, The SVIA, based in Irvine, California, is a not-for-profit trade association sponsored by Arctic Cat, BRP, Bush Hog, Honda, John Deere, Kawasaki, Polaris, Suzuki, Tomberlin and Yamaha. but the numbers don't lie. Bicycles are nearly as dangerous, I'm sure each year it could go any way, and more research would probably reveal even more dangerous things. Trying to ban ATV's for children is absurd as banning bicycles IMO.
When it comes time to vote, I hope everyone really speaks up about this.