I have no problem with other people cleaning up pigs messes but I dont think that will stop it. It causes the attitude that "hey somebody else will get it". I all for cleanup rides , but that should be in conjunction with strong enforcement.

As far as the trash goes maybe some Tickets should be issued to the offenders. I havent been to Holeylands but isnt it patrolled.  A few $500 fines would curb this and maybe cause the offenders not to want to ride there anymore. Why is it the non offenders have to keep going out and pickup after the pigs that leave the garbage. Here is another though. If they are caught they should have to spend 4 full weekends in Zebra suits picking up trash with their ankles in shackles. Or have to stand out front of the place in a Zebra suit holding a sign saying this is what happens when I litter !.. Ah I feel better now. 

I guess the local Gov is waiting for a few more people to get killed to get this thing started. I am growing a little weary of waiting on them. Also notice, maybe a coincidence, but it is an election year. If they open it ,great, if not, vote them out of office. A park is a win win situation for all. The anti-ATVrs want us away from their homes , the Law Enforcement wants it, we need it, land is there. This should happen a lot quicker. If its legality they are claiming delays on. Its same as they local skate parks! Keep at it anyway , but Iam not holding my breath or getting excited about it.

It makes me uncomfortable to read about what happened, and I can't even imagine how terrible it would be to have to witness such an event and the aftermath that followed. Nor, can I imagine the immense emotional pain that one would have to endure when seeing your child die in front of you. This family and the events that transpired today will remain in my thoughts and reflections for some time..


There are certain inherent risks in our sport, that we all seem to accept. But In my opinion, the state agencies and local governments who so willingly accept funds from the taxation, registration, and titling of ATV's, need to step up and provide safe places for ATV enthusiasts to ride. They need to earmark that money for recreational OHV parks, with safe trails, with one way systems, to diminish the possibility of accidents like this happening.

I'm not saying that that would have prevented today's accident, but we should at least have the right to have a safe alternative to just open riding, where whoever wants to, can just ride at their whim, even if it is completely out of control.

Well put!

I also noticed that the media didnt bash ATV'n. This isnt a new sport and most of us know the dangers. We need to ride with respect and watch out for one another. My wife and I are still hit hard by this and probably will refrain from riding for a bit. this accident does show that even though you may be a good rider and dont think you need gear you cant predict what someone else will do to you accidents happen and are increased by wrecklessness , stupidity and pure dumb luck. Take care all and ride safe.

As Thrumud knows I ride out their all the time and try to avoid that area. I was out there today with my wife and when we found out about it, we ended our ride and went home. Its a tragic accident. Riding gear may not have helped in this case but I have read numerous accounts on this and other forums where helmets have saved lives so please dont down play wearing a helmet. 90% of the people in this area dont ride with helmets ( because it doesnt look kewl ) and have no real knowledge of how to properly ride ie signals and rules of the trails. After going home we went out too eat and saw a family of riders crossing the street ( about a mile from the crash) one ATV had the dad and his 2 young kids, one infront of him and one behind , no more than 6yrs old on the same quad and the kids had no helmets, WTF. I ve always said adults make up your own mind, but kids dont know better. My kids ride with us and I dont know what I would of done if it were my child.

This will be great if its not overly restrictive. Aslo agree with others about some of the idot riders I ve seen and trash. Hopefully we can keep it after its open. I read California makes 3.2 Billion a year on OHV area use. Its about time Florida wakes up and sets aside some area for this kind of recreational use. 

Love the getto talk... I  cant understand why anyone would want to talk like that. It represents stupidity and a lack of education. LMO.. Good job on the English to stupid translation. Reminds me of the old lady on Airplane talking jive..

Think Iam going to get some wagon wheels and put them on my toyota to fit in !- Ya no , sum Bling!

OH PLEASE, SWFRider, you're the only dude I know who has SPINNERS on his quad.

  That funny LMO. You dont even know me !
Hmm where do you see them in this picture. Its not a trick question.

Yo cuz, me and my posse when to hit the humps and 5.0 was all up in the joint. For shizzle my nizzle, ya heard?

We had to make a mad dash, on the down low. They was tryin to catch me ridin' dirty. 


Booya Kah Shah!


Ali G got his quad impounded, Respeck!

The block is hot...ya heard?

(Little Jon was just like WHAAAAAAAAAT??  OOOOOOOOOOOOKAY!!)

Love the getto talk... I  cant understand why anyone would want to talk like that. It represents stupidity and a lack of education. LMO.. Good job on the English to stupid translation. Reminds me of the old lady on Airplane talking jive..

Think Iam going to get some wagon wheels and put them on my toyota to fit in !- Ya no , sum Bling!

Lets get back to the basics here. He was an adult NOT WEARING A HELMET ( his choice ) and died from traveling 92 ft , crash landing and SEVERE head injuries.  To have been traveling 92 ft after a jump ( reguardless if it was on purpose or not ) means he was traveling at a high rate of speed. Its a tragedy yes, but no helmet means no reguard for his safety or respect for the machine he was riding. If you are gonna ride ATV's at high rates of speed and do crazy things then wear safety gear, It does increase your chance of living after a crash.

Riding beyond your abilities + no safety gear + high speed = possible injury or death

I was wondering why the state wouldnt put asside less than 5% of the land in Babcock for OHV park. As I said in other posts all the legal riding areas are in the North part of the state. Good job on the letter. I am not holding my breath though. I aggree that a croom size park is needed in the south of florida. It only makes sense. You would think the local south florida law enforcement would get involved to help get this done also.

Nice pic's... They should open season on them without a permit ,to trim the population. For those crying to protect them. Dont worry, they are overpopulated in Florida now. Its time to trim the numbers down. 

Guess I am gonna get some flags. No big deal , most of the best legal riding areas out in the mid west use them. But they are mainly used for dune riders to give more visibility when comming over a dune. Leave it to florida to come up with this also.

After clearing some things up, I am totaly against a full helmet that doesnt alow air in the front to flow through. As for the MX boots. Like I said we do wear them ,but I do know that if a kid goes into a canal with them on this could stop them from swimming out. The good thing is the ankle support and they provide protection against snakes, like when we take breaks to get hydrated of the sides of the trails. I have personaly killed several rattlers around here and saw an 8 ft one crossing a trail we ride on frequently. Your points are well taken. Again I feel its your choice to parent not the goverments.It sounds like your supervising your kids well.  I wish more parents would supervise their children on these things, we would have less complaints about the sport. Most of the people I have heard about getting killed are kids. Where we ride have 3 and 4 people riding on the same quad , no helmets and on and at least 2 occations saw infants ( less than 1 yr old ) being driven on a quad and one child probably less than 2 on an MX bike being held by an adult. Seeing this and watching the decline of the sport I ve love gets me angry at times. 

As far as the helmet a full face one is not required. We do ride here in august and my kids as I have said where full riding gear including chest protectors. We all wear water/hydration systems while riding here in the heat. Yes it gets hot and in the hotest days of august we take a brake from riding. I served in the military in jungles and desert zones. I know all about heat heat stroke and heat exahustion and wearing helmets and carry large amouts of weight. Your heat argument doesnt fly , dont mean to offend. Helmets are required in the legel desert riding areas in the US such as Glamis and they get hotter there than we do. They dont complain about it, they work around it. Others may look at us a being foolish or out of style when wearing our gear , but when me and the wife and kids see others without at least a helmet we think they are foolish. Do as you wish with your kids you are the parent. As far as riding alone. I dont think kids under 12 should ride alone. I dont ride alone. I have had a friend riding alone and had the quad role on top of him. He couldnt get up since he was pinned, good thing another rider came along to help. As far as riding boots go, I dont think they mean full mx style boots to be required. I would expect something other than flip flops and sneakers like work boots. I for one am for parental decisions but I simply dont agree with your thoughts on lightening the saftey gear for kids. In my opinion if you are an adult I dont care if you ride in a bikini and nothing else. But some kids especialy the young ones dont understand the dangers of a 300+ LB quad impacting them at speed.

Dont get offended by my response, it is not ment to offend, I just simply disagree about the heat and safety issue.

Has anyone contacted this group !

http://www.atvaonline.com/rights.asp

Exactly what I propsed to this group. But we need to make them wider and require a helmet be give to a sale of any child size ATV. Also 90cc is not enough power to get a child out of danger if they are to big for it. Speed can also save. If you read the article you can send in your recomendations. Put more burdon on the manufacturers to make them safer like better front bumpers and included helmet. Also a tether to cut off the engine if they fall off. Most important is for states to provide more accessable riding areas with one way trails and open areas. this will reduce crashes.

My older daughter would definately get hurt on a 90 cause its too small. I think when the japanese companys tested these things they must of used their people to determine ages for quads. Actualy after re-reading this article they want to limit the speeds to 10 - 15 mph for kids uner 16. i think this will cause more crashes due to slower riders not being able to get out of the way of faster riders. So basicaly we as parents have no say so in the matter. This is just another way they are trying to destoy the sport for familys

http://www.atvaonline.com/News/06/cpsc2.asp

Anyone checked this out http://www.atvaonline.com/

Well put ! 

Although this is tragic.. Dont let it get to you too much. people die on bicycles, cars and small airplanes and you dont see anyone banning them.

Proof of what Ive been saying is the appearance of signs about every 500'in the Yucapan. I'll bet the Judges threw out some cases involving trespassing due to it not meeting state statues. Dont get me wrong. If Iam asked to leave I will. I dont condone trespassing when the land has been clearly marked. If Iam arrested without just cause then I will sue the officer and agency for violation of my civil rights. All its gonna take is one of these cases to change things.

The question you need to ask your self is does the officer have the right to arrest me if Iam on foot, a bicycle or ATV on land that has no signs or fences or other man made barriers indicating it is trespassing.
Maybe if we are to give up this fight then we should force all florida land owners to properly meet the statues and post signs and put up fences. It is really your choice and doesnt mean the office wont arrest you. You may want to consult an attorney if you feel you have been wrongfully detained or arrested. its time we fight back like the eco terrorist do. With attorneys and law suits. The other solution is to make it so land owners cant be sued if you get hurt on vacant unmarked land.

That doesnt help our cause does it. But it does prove we need managed legal accessable trails. Maybe the familys can sue the state to have a manged trail system. Wonder if they were wearing safety gear.

If anyone gets arrested for riding on unposted vacant land please post and i think all members here should help donate money for a good attorney, or we all file a class action suit baring law enforcemnet from harrasing us on un posted vacant lands. No officer has the right to make such a blanket statement that you cant ride in lee county ! They are frustrated because complaints are pouring in to the Sheriff office and pressure is being put on them. They must still represent the law properly. One day one of these deputys is gonna be charged with violation of civil rights if he arrests the wrong person , that under florida statues is not tresspassing . The land that has been a problem is a Water Management Preserve and people cut the fences to it and began riding in it. These idiots drew attention and because a few went in others stupidly thought it was ok. The fences were there still and morons went into the preserve. I rode upto a few people near the entrance (cut fence) one day angry and said "do you know you are in a preserve."They just shrugged and said others are in here" I have stated in an earlier post that the preserve was on 1/10 of the area rideable around it. But people gathered to it like magnets.  This area was a prime example of fencing and signs that said no tresspasing as it is suppose to look under the law. And if you are caught in the preserve then yes you can be arrested , since it was properly marked, even with the cut front fence there is still visible fence and signs around it. SWFWMA had the right to have people removed. I for one will not let my Quads sit for 2 yrs while a bunch of eco terrorist decide we cant use some public land promised to us ( Naples , still waiting ). WE MUST FIND PRIVATE LANDS TO RIDE or move to them.   

I understand your problem as it has become ours on west coast of florida as well. As you have stated in your post that you must ride in other countys. This has only speed up shutting our areas down as well. In our areas that we used to ride maybe a dozen or so riders would show up. Now people are comming from other countys with campers leaving trash and its up to 50 or a hundred, or was till the tickets started. This is only blocks where I live even I as an ATV advicate cant stand the noise at night and trash and debris left behind.

It time to fight for our riding areas. We need to get the people that hate us to help put us in legal riding areas. Only problem with getting the goverments , county and state, involved is that they can become so restrictive that family riding would be out of the question. Example: We cant ride double so I bought 2 quads that fit the size for my kids. a 90 and 200. Both are experienced riders but goverments take the sticker recomendations from the manufacturers as law. If I was to put my 98 lb 11 yr old on the recomended size quad it would be extremely dangerous. Hense , she rides the 200 and my 7 yr old rides a 90. This is just one example of how the goverment plays parent and screws thing up.  pretty soon you wont even be able to walk on unposted or vacant land for fear of an arrest  because the law enforcement agencys distort the laws due to complaints and threaten ATV'rs and MX riders with impounding and arrest. Florida is clear on trespass and says signs must be posted every 500 ft and or fenced and or have a man made barrier..These things make it clear that its private property, that is why this law is in place.   Unfortunately law enforcement has been taxed with complaints of noise due to southern floridas growth and simply attack ATV'rs with threats and if we just pay the fines then nothing changes.  One way florida could help this problem is by making it unlawful to sue vacant land owners for damages. Things that havent helped our cause is people riding late at night near residential areas , leaving trash behind and riding so recklessly down streets doing wheelies and things like that. 
I honestly hope Dade County gets its park , keep up the fight.

Well the only way to win this battle is to pull together and threaten to vote out politicians that dont want to help.. IE vote out incumbants. Let them know that we have friends and family and even people that dont like quad riding that would rather see us in designated riding areas then juts out and about on vacant lands. Example: Thousands of illegal mexicans come out and protest their right to be here , use our hospitals and other services at our expense. And ATV riders , American Taxpayers cant even get a place to ride. Our law enforcent wont even get rid of people breaking our laws by being here illegaly and not paying taxes , yet will harrass a family of American Born Taxpayers just out to have fun on our quads. Dont give me excuses about bad riders and people dieing. People die everyday on americans roads just going to work. We dont ban cars. Our legal system is not designed to punish the masses due to a couple of idiots. Any officer that says that, has forgotten their job. Any politician that talks like this has forgotten who put them in office. Me and my wife and friends have already decided to vote out all emcombants that didnt or havent supported this sport. I am tired of waiting for florida to wake up and stop the overdevelopment of our great state. Anyone else notice that the 2 biggest riding areas are in northern florida.

Man Iam pissed !!!!!!!!!!!!!