ATV Florida Forum

I have thought long and hard about this, and no one reason stands alone for my decision. I have been a member since Jan. 2004. I joined this site because I love riding. I found it to be a VERY informative place as far as riding spots were concerned. I also discovered how many nice folks were users. The first thing I really posted on this site was where a muddin’ picture was taken and how I could go there.
  I met Claude (aka “the Grizz) and his family at Bad Luck Prairie, along with sk8rdude and his wife Rocio, pair o grizz and his wife Lauren, meathead1, and a few others who I run into occasionally.
  And then there were the Rodman rides! Man wasn’t that great!  Met another batch of great folks…jjamesbar, the other Rodman guide. Idaman, susieblazer and family, thrasher,..duuuude….asphaltdragon, customrubicon, caospop, Dr Walum, (where’s my beer) among others that I met that were good people. That was a couple of rides that I’ll never forget.
  MS&G rides…found them here…along with atvgirl & bam-bam, kawgirl & shortcut, ZIN, BCConviber, Nos, BBF, ..great times there as well….
  It was great that you could post your ride pictures and people all over the state could relate. Either they rode there, or they had experiences that they wanted to share with you that made us a real community. Friends that you never met in person. Common ground was RIDING. We were brothers in a sense. It was great. I couldn’t wait till Monday, to see all the pics, read about what went on in their spots. My grandson always wanted to look at all the pics and see the people he met while on these rides…

  Now we have come to, what I consider, such a sad state of affairs…I have quit posting since this all came to a head. I won’t be naming names, because I don’t want this to be a parting shot at anyone. In my opinion…we all have them, but we should respect others…this site has lost what made it great. 
 
<MY OPINION SECTION>

Open Discussion:
Talk about whatever you like. Inappropriate threads will be deleted without notice.

This hasn’t happened for a while. Must be a new addition….
  I really think this is the downfall of this site. You can’t really talk  about what you like for several reasons now.  I used to post on any subject in open discussion. Lately, I have not posted there as much, because I would really see a thread that I would like to join in with some interesting point, but because of the subject matter, it would never be “free speech”. It would somehow degrade into a battle, or be hijacked to trash either a race, cultural or religious group.  There are those members who would trample on MY freedom of speech, religion, or expression, because my thought did not align with them. Long winded replies that preach their gospel to me, like one brand is the only brand. My ancestor’s blood was spilled in this land, and on foreign soil to guarantee those rights.
  Yes, we all have the ability to change channels, or not read a thread. But certain behavior was allowed, people were attacked, feelings and friendships were damaged, and I only fault moderators for not stopping this sooner. The rules were established, and broken MANY time. I blame individuals for that, but as moderators, it is their job to be the sheriff.  Without laws (rules) and guardians of the law (mods), anarchy will be the norm. Look at New Orleans. Without the enforcement of law, chaos was the order of the day. If you can’t moderate the boards without crying about it, don’t take the job. Friends of mine have been repeatedly attacked with no provocation that would warrant the treatment they got here. Yet ATP gets threads deleted, because of unhappy customers comments. Based in truth or not, they seemed first hand accounts of customer dissatisfaction. But 2 people I find to be the most giving and friendly folks I’ve met on this site, have been driven away for no other reason than an unfriendly exchange between them and another member, that escalated (one sided I might add) into quite a few threads bashing them, here, and on another site. The latest installment of that was here last week, when Grizz left this site and as soon as he had done that, someone took his old screen name and made SEVERAL posts on that screen name that made him look like he was online, and posting stupid remarks just to make him look bad. This was removed by the mods shortly after it was started, but where is the punishment like what has been handed out to kids that post too much. They get banned or locked in their rooms for a few days…
If the mods wanted to find out who it was, they could have just checked the IP address and you would know who did it.  All the negative remarks about ATP were taken down, but the many personal attacks made on the Grizz family remain in both the River Ranch section, and Open Discussion.
   A lot has been made of the kids on this site. Content of a few threads was really objectionable, but I had no problem with that. I ran into the 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke thread, and didn’t like it. So what. I moved on. I don’t have little ones to protect, other than Kyle. He was only looking at what I looked at, AFTER I saw it. I chose not to read it. However, if I had kids with open access, I would have reported it to the mods. But the point is, we shouldn’t have to “screen” ATVFLORIDA before our kids read it. Well, according to the rules set forth before you became a member….But the point is, I had to screen the site.
  The Post sleeper kids…. Who cares? So they want to up their post count. Does it make you mad because they post a lot? Don’t read or respond then…they are kids! My goodness….the fretting over annoying kids! When you were a kid, did you have the right answers? Did you annoy the crap out of people? Or did you always act over 30 years old. It’s a bulletin board! Get over it already.

Now the last straw…..  Mod comes out of  his shell, and goes on the attack. Now you can’t speak without threatening comments from the mod!! Speak up, so I can smite thee with my almighty “DELETE” button. Retaliation has come back by way of “Open your mouth, and I shall destroy you!!!” I can do anything I want! I am the mod. Sure, now you do your job and rub it in our faces that you wield some power beyond our comprehension.
So now I come to the deletion of my account. It means I’ll still have the friends I have met here, and will meet more as I ride in the same places, but I won’t have to deal with the pettiness of a few who have no patience for the newbies or tolerance of others.
With that said, I will sit back and see how this “expression” is taken for a while before I delete my account.

I can definately understand where you are coming from. All things aside, it has been a wild and eye-opening past few months.

i can relate to alot of your comments. but "the mod" you speak of did apologize and those accounts have the 3 day ban rule before being reinstated(thats what i was told). i think that realizing the err's of your way and posting it speaks alot for character. we're not playin games here we all know we're talkin about mike and like i've said before, i think hes a great guy(i also feel that the people that got caught up in this are good people). i  feel that the good people here outway the few that are trying to bring it down. deleting you account will  just be  playing into the hands of those that want to ruin it . i for one will not but i do respect your opinion. and i do think your one of the good ones. hate to see you go.

Goodbye. You will be missed.

Just go already. Jeesh.... :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Oh, the site will never be the same without BUDman... ::)

Watch it Z400, keep it clean or get banned. 3 strikes and your out.

Ohh man the good ole days, "down and dirty" rides.. 8) The grizz left? That sucks. He was one of the few members I've actually met.  :-\

I believe it's comments like that that you were referring to Budman? lol.. it does get old. I'll have to agree with Gery... there are WAY more good people on this site then bad. Even though there have been some serious issues lately, at the end of the day were all here for the reason and at the many Rodman Rides we have all shared so many memories. I miss those rides! Nothing better then spending the weekend practically turning Elite Resort into AtvFlorida Resort, lol. Hopefully the next few months will be a positive turn around for this site.

See you later Budman  :w

I hear you..... I also have been here a long time.... Member #49.   I have seen things change  :S  but it usually comes back to the norm  ???
I have not posted much lately, it urk's me with some of the Bull $hit going on  :banghead.gif  So I just go elsewhere till it blows over...What can you do ? if you post and tell someone to stop it just fuels the fire.

Hopefully things will go back to ATV's/Quad"s soon.
Later

http://64.177.67.115/atv/bud.wmv (http://64.177.67.115/atv/bud.wmv)


(http://img135.exs.cx/img135/214/budman9pj.jpg)



LOL had too :D

  ;D I took that picture

I can agree with a majority of the things you said.  Everyone thinks differently.  Unless you're a mod its pretty hard to change the way ATVFL is.  Its gotten out of hand, and is too late now.
One of my teachers always said, Opinions are like noses, everyone has one.

Sorry to see you leave,

rl.

Bye

Good bye Budman, You will be missed along with all the others who have left the site lately for the same reasons your leaving, I also agree with majority of what you said.
gery350 and Skyhigh I also agree with what you have to say. There are the few people that can Ruin a whole site for everyone It is Just sad

GOOD BYE........ THIS BUDS FOR YOU!!

Hope to see you at RR with the Grizz..................... :P :P

I think size has had a lot to do with the problems.  ! year ago when I joined there wer about 1300 dedicated ATV riders as members.  As it has grown, it has become younger in age of members and appears to be the only place these members have to vent their feelings.  As you can see from the posts, both in the open discussion and the for sale, ATV's are NOT the majority of the posts.

We who have been came looking for ATV discussion.  I can't remember the fighting and bickering ever happening, and if it did, it was over quickly.

I am a contributing member because I wanted to support an ATV forum,  now it has grown so big we have sponsors.  Well and good, but remember why this was formed.

I do have to agree with you there. I joined this site on April 11. 2003 as the 73rd member, lol... now we have over 3716 (granted at least half of those dont actually post anything).

bye

had to jump in here on this one. first Mike apologize for what he sayed and do you know what Mikes personal life is going thru? hhmmmm.... Second personal attacks; Wow thats a big one hmmm............. maybe you need to look in the mirror on that one...... Third the easy thing to do is quit! This site we go forward with you or without you. Sorry to see you go!

Budman, never meet you, but you were always cool in my book. Even though Big D is not always known for his edicate, he does have a valid point. There is the internet and then there is us riding together. People you meet in life matter, not Avatars. Hope to ride with you one day.

We need to get pass all this drama and ban together again so we can save our sport and our land. We have enough problems dividing us in real life to deal with as it is.

Sorry to see you go. For the newbies (within the last year) this site has been more than beneficial for me, I found a great printer (Budman), I found people to hang out with on Monday nights (Margarita Monday's at LaBambas), and not to mention, The Grizz Family is one of a kind.

It is sad that some here on this site will never now what they missed.

See ya soon BudMan, I got some more cards to be printed ;)

Sorry to hear your leaving Budman.  I never really talked to you except when we stumbled apon each other out at riverranch.  Hope to meet you again.

you mean the Budman will actually drink something other than Bud ;-)

Budman, you will be missed,,,,,I know I'll see ya somewhere again if not online.  Who could ever forget the little blue quad passing me by in the mini-lake that Jeff said was no big deal right after I drowned my quad at the beginning of a rodman trail ride.

The man, the legend,,,,the Budman.

I will say I agree with BigD on something here,,,it's easy to quit, I myself entertained thoughts of it over the weekend, but I'd rather stay and help turn this site back into what it used to be and we are well on our way.

see ya on the trails.

Id@

I haven't read the RR section so I don't know what is going on there.  I have met Budman and the Grizz family.  They are all great people and I am fortunate for knowing them.  I will see them again.  I am very saddened to see them leave!

I have only been on this site for a short while but I have sat and watched the drama escalate.  I have been fortunate and have only been attacked one time.  I won't be leaving as of yet.  I am holding faith in the fact that these people that are creating drama and bashing on this site will stop, or that the mods will put a stop to it.

I feel that mtg_man and family are great people.  He did appologize for his actions.  We have all gotten to the boiling point at times and lashed out w/o thinking.  It is the better person that realizes their mistakes and honestly tries to make it right.  Sometimes this is a simple appology.  Other times it requires action steps to correct what has been destroyed.

I have personally seen where ppl have made comments to intentionally get someone's goat, or egg them on.  They continue w/ the abuse then after they get out what they want to say they make an appology which does not at all seem sincere.  Rather a ploy to stay off the radar before they go on to repeat this action.

It seems a shame that we are losing a few of the great members that are active in ATV issues to the few that are constantly negative and abusive.  Why are so many ok w/ watching these good members leave rather than purging the site of the few bad members. 

If these situations aren't corrected I can see that this site may lose alot more great members and be left w/ more bad than good members.  Is this really what everyone wants?  Let's try to fix it, mend broken friendships, and get back to riding and positive comments.

Budman I hope you don't leave us.

Thanks everyone for the positive comments...I know I have stepped on a few toes before, but I just have been fed up for so long, and don't see any fix to the problem without a major overhaul.

Funny...I have to share this with you....this is EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

And then this.....
in a pm...

You have just been sent a personal message by big-daddy on ATVFlorida.com Message Forums & Classifieds.

IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email.

The message they sent you was:

Grizz left this site and as soon as he had done that, someone took his old screen name and made SEVERAL posts on that screen name that made him look like he was online, and posting stupid remarks just to make him look bad.

So you blame me for that to! Is that a personal attack or why?  if you only knew what they say about you behind your back?

I think by leaving it's only leaving a bad image on yourself. You let the people who try to ruin the site get the best of you. You should stick around and just skip over the useless remarks from the rude people. I'm not saying your decision is a bad one, but think it through, and think about your reasons for leaving, and if they really make it worth not seeing what is up with the florida riding, and how all of us that really are good people are doing.

"if you only knew what they say about you behind your back?" a comment made from above.

I was w/ the grizz family this past weekend and we did talk about budman.  Nothing negative was said.  In fact it was quite the opposite.

I am not trying to hyjack your thread, but I have once again read enough about what is going on with this site and I am tired of the business getting dragged into it.

If all of the negative posts were deleted, then what are these? ???

http://www.atvflorida.com/forum/index.php/topic,3379.0.html

http://www.atvflorida.com/forum/index.php/topic,3381.0.html

http://www.atvflorida.com/forum/index.php/topic,3378.0.html

I dont care what is posted GOOD BAD OR UGLY about our business, POST IT WHERE IT BELONGS.

If there is a problem with our business, post it in the proper sections, but dont try and say that ATP is any problem with this site. We have and will continue to help as many people in the ATV community as we can. We also have a section on this site to post anything related to us, so that it does not interfere with everyones usual topics. We are a site sponsor, hence we do what we can to contribute to the site and help it grow.

Sorry to see you go Budman, along with a lot of others, but just like what has happened in the past, I think that everything has a way of working itself out in the end.

Thanks, Mike

And as always, the drama continues. I hate to see you go, but if you are going to leave then it needs to be done.. or this thread needs to be deleted, or both. Reading this, all I see happening so far is EXACTLY what you were complaining about in the first place. B-D PMed you, that is none of our business, if it was, it would have been in a public forum. If you have a problem with Big-Daddy then you need to take it up with him personally and not involve the rest of us in this mess, considering the state of this site, we have enough problems of our own to deal with. Not to mention, reading that PM you posted, I dont see anything bad in it... just that he's informing you that someone else has used the Grizz's name. Am I reading that wrong?? Or are you just so strung out right now over the decline of this site that anything you see you are turning into a negative?? Ignore the bad man and focus on the positive stuff. This site is still great you just have to weed through all the drama and annoying posters... it's not too hard.

-Ashley

In customer service and in life there to type of people, the loud ones and the quiet ones. The loud ones are people that talk lot and make a lot of noisy. Normally those people looking for some kind of attention, but there go no where. Than there are the quiet one, the ones that say nothing and leave and never come back. I’m a Quiet one if I was unhappy with service or with something; I won’t say a word, just leave. It’s your choice, stop stirring the pot!


Also Budman, I pm you to keep out of open forum, PM means private message. If I have something to say it’s not behind your back. Get my point! PM me if you have any questions.

Just hold on and sit back and think about it......you don't what anybody to get the best of you ....do you? Why give them the satisfaction?
Don't hit that DELETE Button!  Just go away for awhile and come back later and see how's things are then.  Who knows how things will be in a week....month....etc?  Also if you delete then someone can take your name and do evil things  :d

They call it PRIVATE message for a REASON not for fun!  That was uncalled for.
rl.

Once again, I stepped on my crank....I pm'd Nightbreed, and called him as well to apologize for dragging him into this.....forgot there were 2 Mikes at ATP before.

Apology much accepted, and it was great talking to you today!

Yeah but where you stepped on it again is that I have never removed any thread regarding business nor have I ever asked anybody to remove one.

I DIDNT KNOW BUDMAN BUT IT SEEMS ALOT OF PEOPLE LIKED HIM SO IM SORRY THAT YOUR LEAVING BECAUSE OF THE DESTRUCTION A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE CREATED BUT I ALSO SEE YOUR POINT, SO IF YOU LEAVE MAYBE ILL RUN INTO YOU ONE DAY ON THE TRAILS. UNTIL THEN SORRY YOUR LEAVING YOU SEEM LIKE A GOOD PERSON

Trust  me.  Hes  in  a  better  place  now. ;)

GGG GET IT RAG

Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man , good to see drama is still alive and well on the site .....I've been gone for a bit , but man......!

Hey J.D. great to have you back!  :)

Yep JD, like a cheap soap opera, rerun after rerun.  Same thing over and over.  Tag.  You are it, start a good thread.

I for one have been gone for five months, running my business in Michigan.

I now am back and found alot of unnecessary drama. I have always enjoyed this site and the many people I have talked, ridden and camped with. I really hated to see that the Grizz family left and to see that you are thinking about leaving also budman. You should not leave and let them win.
                             
                                                 Tony

hey Big Daddy..............haven't heard from you lately on line been busy with the camp ??

I being helping out in Sprint City in New Orleans. trying to set up a new tower for the police and fire department. Programed over 700 radios on tuesday. Wish them the best out there. Its still pretty bad out there.

Welcome back custom. I hear we'll be hanging out next weekend. Looking forward to meeting you finally.

welcome back home.............. 8) 8) bet it did get a bit busy there

Thank You !   I will be there.  I have heard alot about you from mutual friends and it will be good to meet you.

Thank You ! I love florida and the friends I have here to ride with. Even though Michigan has over 3000 miles of orv trails it is not like here. We are like a family here.

This is wrong... I joined this site Janurary 15th of this year. There was around 1200 users and only about 450 or so that actually did something. About June through July when summer vacation started up,(yes i am one of those "annoying" kids), i wasn't on allot. Just from time to time if there was something big happening in the quad world. Other than that i didn't get on. Now i'm trying to get posing again and get in on the discussions. And to tell the truth, i don't want to get in on some threads. This site has went from a bunch of people who wanted to talk about quads to a HUGE bashing fest. People hi-jack posts with garbage all the time and often if it stays up long enough, completly changes the subject to something that they want to talk about. If you pull up a one or two page thread and read it all the way through then by time you get to the last post or 2 there the subject will have complety changed to something totally different. And probably some trash talk or bashing garbage to boot. This site has been ruined by a few people who their entire lives are screwing with other people. Now Bud, dont leave just because a few idiots decided to bash you over the internet. Thats their stuipid hobby. Think about it. Your leaving LOTS of people you've met on the trails and other good friends all because some ahole makes himself feel good by trashing your threads and stuff like that. I don't know you and probably wont meet you but i don't like seeing anybody leave for the reasons you are. Come on you were the 49th person to ever be on this site. 49th out of over 3000 people. This site used to be about quads and the occasional goofy thing, pic or joke in the open discussion. I really haven't ever been seriously trashed on this site but thats probably because i left right before things started getting bad. Anyway i hope BoNes and the modderators can get this under control. If everybody would just keep their negitive oppions to themselves then this would have never happened. It's one thing to talk about whatever the topic is. Like if someone starts a thread about a new quad from honda or suzuki or whatever, but if they start a thread about the quad and you don't like it then say that. Someone could use that info to base a purchase off of. Now if lets say BOB says something negitive and BILL likes the quad allot, BILL shouldn't go personally attacking BOB and ruining the thread over the quad. If you really want to argue then keep it in a PM or better yet DONT ARGUE AT ALL. Theres an idea that nobody has heard before. Just keep the post to the subject and if you don't like the subject then OK. You should be able to say it. Now if you go attacking the starter of the post then thats wrong.

Basically i'm saying 2 things 1: Bud, i really hope you don't leave.I know i would and allot of people on the site would hate to see you go. And 2 the reason he wants to leave, KEEP PERSONAL OPPIONS TO YOUR SELF. IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING NICE TO SAY TO SOMEBODY THEN DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. its ok to express your oppion on something. It explains why we arent speaking a islamic and being ruled by a dictator. Freedom of speech is the 1st amendment. Just don't use that amendment personally. Thats all i got to say on this.

MadMudder-
You may only be 13, but you have intelligence, young man. Well said!!
                 :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif

just wondering,,,,Budman's account is still active,,,,have you changed your mind Budman?

Id@

GPSKurt - I totatally agree with you!!

madmudder - That was very well !!!!! ;) ;)

can someone delete this stupid thread?


Michael

Don't read it!