ATV Florida Forum

I'm new here in the website. This is agreat place for info about atv riding in FL. Iwas riding in Ocala last weekend around Salt Springs and Lake Delancey area,and a  volunteer from the Forest Service stop by and told us that starting in January next year a new trail system is going to start. They are going to open 6 Trailheads and those are the only places that we can access the new Trails.He mentioned that everything is going to be marked. They are also trying to connect all the trails so we can ride from the North to the South Side of the Forest. They are also trying talking to local officcials to make arrangements to provided an area were we can stop for Gas and Food on the ATV's.Idon't know is this is good or bad news but is happening.

I think it sucks, the man tellin me where I can or can't go. Catch me if you can. 8)

I'm wit ya.

I know tons of trails that a truck can't follow me on ;-)

Id@

by the way, welcome to the site.

Welcome Mav.

Id@-
They have quads, too. And radios.

AMEN BROTHER. To shush a man is one thing, To try and choke him is a whole nuther story.I have thought about it and thought about it, and  I think that in some hidden way at some unseen or unconscience  level, RESISTANCE is what theyre lookin for. The more they regulate and restrict the more they open the door for the opprotunity of resistance. That in itself is the set up for the downfall.  Perfect example: The strip of black top that you have no choice but to come in contact with, if you want to get from the parking area to the pit at Rodman. What in the hell harm is it doin for me or anybody else, to run down 2 or 300 feet of black top to get to the pit. Everybody say it with me...NOOOOONE!!!! Thank you, very good class none is exactly right. But when it comes to the day of our usually larger gatherings, where do you see the forest service or state police for that matter everytime???. Sittin right there!!! Its the perfect opprotunity for resistance. Were not stupid or ignorant. We all know that were not supposed to be on the hard road. At the same time theyre not stupid either. They as well as the rest of us know that theres a 200% guarantee that somebodys gonna be goofin off and runnin back and forth. There it is folks..............THE OPPROTUNITY FOR RESISTANCE!!.The more resistance, the more fuel for the fire against atvs in unwanted areas. What or whom we are doing any harm is beyond me, but it is eventually gonna work its way into a wildfire of regulation and restriction. Not that it hasnt already!!!! Just my 2 cents.

What I don't understand is what happens if my bike fails, or I need to get to my truck ASAP? How can you regulate on what trail I ride? Will I have to continue the course for as how long it takes 5, 10, 20 miles? I think it's BS myself and unless they plan on doing the WHOLE forrest like that, I'll find myself another place to park and ride ;).

NEXT IT WILL BE LIKE croom YOU WILL HAVE TO BUY A STICKER AND WEAR A HELMET

Guys, we have been down this trail before. Like it or not, it is happening. You can be part of the solution or part of the problem. There will be 150+ miles of trails, and they will be groomed. If you have an emergency, allowances will be made for such. There has been tremendous habitat damage by irresponsible riders and that is why this is being done. I don't like it either, but it could be completely closed to ATVs, and believe me, that was seriously discussed.

Part of the solution or part of the problem???? In a level headed way of thinking sir you are absolutely correct. But in my opinion, and im sure im not the only one who feels this way. Its would be just as easy, i would think, for the state and government to put forth the same effort and the funds to open more wide spread at the same time less expansive areas for recreation than to limit the areas already in existance. As far as damage to the ecosystem or habitat, it would be an uneducated guess but a guess none the less, that atv recreation does no more harm to the outdoors than the poorly organized control burns that some how in the past have been known to"GET OUT OF HAND" OR  blaze out of control. Explain to me anyone how my runnin over a few palmettos or exposing the roots of a giant scrub oak by way of overtravel, does any more damage than the smoke that is sent bellowing into the atmosphere and deteriorating our ozone layer which in turn causes the eventual effects of "Global Warming" which in turn are the scientifically known causes for massive hurricanes such as we have seen become more and more of a nuisance to put it lightly over the recent years. I just dont buy that my yfz is capable of that kind of damage or could ever be any more harmful enough to warrant  such actions. I do understand that they have no control over the weather, but the emissions of a two stroke engine could not possibly do any more damage to the enviroment than state or government regulated factories or industries.  I am going off on a tangent i realize but this is all related somewhere in the mix. They just dont have any possibly valid reason other than to turn our otherwise unprofittable recreational activities into an eventual profit, giving us no choice but to buy into group owned land tracts (that we do have to pay taxes on), or state and government owned and operated areas such as croom or big scrub. To just lay down and say "hey its inevitable, be part of the solution, or be part of the problem, is understandable but by no means acceptable. I ask you this, SOLUTION FOR WHAT?? and PART OF WHAT PROBLEM??

This is the kind of attitude that will lose the rest of our riding areas. Maybe if the rules were followed we would have more places to ride, obviously not following them is getting nowhere as areas keep closing not opening. ???

I did not reflect any attitude in my opinion. OUTSIDE OBSERVATIONS are not about ones attitude.Since my attitude has been brought into it. I could care less what they do with ocala. Hows that for attitude??For 1 its two hours away, doesnt affect me one way or the other. #2 as far as recreational riding is concerned, like i said before i agree with what he said as far as theres nothin you can do about them closing any areas or limiting access. I dont like it nor agree with it but it is UNACCEPTABLY inevitable.I am not so naieve and self centered or self absorbed to think that just because i stay on the trail everybody else is going to follow in my tracks, ever been to the pumpkin run. I also said before,i beleive its all part of a lengthy process that will have the outcome in their favor. $$$ I personally am a responsible rider, whos attitude towards money hungry authority and government organizations does not come forth while riding, TRUST ME. Im not gonna sit here and hide behind any mister holier than thow, just because i am affraid to express my opinions on any given subject matter. If it offends anyone well.........then you have the right to be offended just the same as i have the right to offend you. I cant stand the fact that just because there may be a  majority that thinks one way that we should all be expectec to follow suit. In that case then yes i guess i would be forced to blaze my own trails. Be it through life or the palmettos. I would have the same opinion of the closing or limiting of access of any riding or recreation area from here to egypt and back. But hey thats just my opinion.

catch me first ;)










just kidding

superstar-
You make very valid points. I do not disagree with them. However, we (atvers) are looked upon as a scourge of the land. And we are not helping their perception of us by leaving garbage everywhere, riding through ecologically sensitive areas, and generally thumbing our collective noses at authority. I am in no means saying this is how you personally act, but, get on a quad, and this is how the biologists and law enforcement personnel EXPECT us to act. Unfortunately, they are correct a lot of the time. I am trying to be part of the solution by volunteering to be part of the OHV Volunteer Host program (Volunteer Rangers). We drive around in the green trucks. We do not issue citations, we are not confrontational and we do not do ANY law enforcement. We attempt to educate the riders we encounter of the consequences of their actions and to inform them of the changes coming in the trail system. This gives atvers a big image boost to FS management. Anyone who so desires to be a part of this program is welcome to talk to the man in charge of it. I will put anyone in touch with him if they desire.

We are losing riding areas at an alarming rate. We simply cannot afford to take an "I don't care" attitude. I drive 2 hours to get to ONF and I am glad to have the opportunity to see this magnificent area. It would be a genuine tragedy if it were closed to atv's.

I hope you can see my point of view on this. :ThumbsUp.gif

superstar-

+ karma for you for discussing this without being insulting or derogatory!

Kurt

I have to be honest it would be real easy to do just that Kurt if i were communicating with the person or persons in charge of such operations, or whoever was responsible for such decisions. But i know that neither of you mean any ill words, and nor do i. Its just that when topics like this arent just pushed to the side, and looked into a lil deeper than" well we tore up some $hit, and this is their way of slapping us on our butts", its pretty obvious there lies an agenda somewhere in the mix. With that being said, for them (Government or State) to turn to us and say "hey man its your fault". Come on guys lets get real. By chance has anybody ever been to the daytona 500, or a professional football game or basketball or whatever. When you were leaving, did you notice the mess that was left behind. Although rediculous, the money earned through ticket sales or beer or what have you, in their eyes far outweighs the burden of scumbaggedness (new word, not very well known as of yet), and the labor costs of cleaning this mess up. In alot of ways, our sport is no different. But there does ly the matter of fundage. Thats what its all about,$$$$$$$$. Take the pumpkin run for example. Apollo or whoever gets together and cahrges a fee for taking part. For the most part the responsible folks clean up, but there are those who leave quite a mess. They do an excellent job of comin behind and straightening up the scumbaggedness, after all theyre makin a pretty penny just through entry fees. Now its just not profitable enough for the forest service or army corps or whoever to maintain this kind of activity so they put restrictions on it, i guess to limit the mess. So instead of having the back bone to come out publicly, and say, "theres just not enough money in it for us to put up with it" They want to fall back and say "well you dug up a few dogwood saplings last weekend with those new mudlites, so now your gonna have to be regulated"!! What a joke. Cowards. Atleast a politician is honest about his greed.

Ive got 1 for ya. If its the environment that they are trying to protect,and the mess they are trying to avoid. How is it that the big scrub area or croom is any less protectable or important. They shut down designated riding areas all the time. Why??? Im gonna guess that its like everything else.  I guarantee you right now, if big scrub were anywhere remotely close to a somewhat thriving community or growing area, and WAL-MART came in and said hey yall, well give you x amount of money for this tract, and it was more than they pull in in 3 or 4 yrs of membership sales or whatever,theyd shut that place down so fast itd give your whole family a permanent orange afro, but hey wal-mart does have a hair salon. $$$$$$, IT MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND!!

In the area I ride, it's not so much the ATV'ers making a mess and leaving garbage everywhere, it's the local rednecks in their pos 4wd trucks.  They come out at night and have a bonfire party.  Sometime there are literally hundreds of empty beer bottles and cans where they've been.  Also, I've never seen an ATV carry an old refridgerator or mattress out in the forrest to dump.

Undoubtably, some atv'ers leave crap behind, and ride where they shouldn't, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as the rednecks.

Here's an example of the kind of trash we run across.  I found this last week.  From the looks of it, I'd say the car was stolen, run into the hole, and lit on fire.  I doubt the sheriffs even know it's out there.

(http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/5012/926050181sr.jpg)

Tell me about...There alot of stuff can happen in the forest.  Gotta watch out for the ATV thieves

I'd like to volounteer for the rangers, but I cannot commit to a schedule and I'd rather ride my quad around than the green trucks.

My problem with any government agency taking over things like the trails system is this,,,,they say there will be 150 miles of trails,,,,we'll see.

they say the trails will be maintained,,,,we'll see.

Part of the fun of going up to Ocala is riding out of my front yard right into the forest and having literally 5 different trails and directions I could go as soon as I hit the forest line,,,now I will be reduced to trailering my quad to wherever and only having one choice.

how big are the trails gonna be?

is there gonna be a speed limit?

are they really gonna be groomed?

are they going to be cleared after a hurricane?(or will that be an excuse to close them for a couple of months.)

I don't believe for one minute that the forestry service has the commitment to do these things that are needed for maintaining a trail system and I believe they are going to close the place down anyway,,,this is just the start.

they have to do some major convincing to people like me that they are sincere.

Id@

The part I don't understand is that the Forest Service and the Enviromentalist blame all this trash and more to ATV Riders. I think that the problem is that we are not well organize in the state that we can all come together in front of the Forest Service or have an organization to represent us to voice our concerns about allthis problem.

Mav-
What a lot of people don't know is that there is an advisory committee that represents the atv/offroad interests in this state. They were very successful at keeping ONF open to atvs. I cannot remember who all is on the committee right now, but I do remember they are some distinguished people. ;D

Sorry, but there is no way they will keep it all contained to 150 miles enless it is fenced on both sides the whole way. I know they wont contain me and ida mann.

Every out-of-state trail system I've been to-GA, PA, NC-have all had designated trails-usually marked for their difficulty at the trail heads.  I've had a good time at every single one of them.  Especially for the fact I knew nobody would be hitting me head on coming the opposite direction!!  I've also had to pay a daily/weekend permit fee-usually not more than $10-$20.   Not too sure what all the  :'( is about!!  It's also nice to know where you're approx. located-especially in an emergency situation.

Even if a fee was created to help maintain these trails-daily/weekend/annual passes should be available; as long as they are going to be maintained.  Croom-at least up until last year to my knowledge has 1 option and that is the annual pass.  In my opinion, Croom is not worth $50 for someone out-of-state visiting for 1 weekend of riding.  As I've stated before in other threads-I don't see where the money for Croom goes, other than cleaning up-The park is clean but not very well managed/organized.

agreed if you can catch me ill pay the fine

Very good point!  All it takes is a few to ruin it for everyone else.  Seems only then will everyone cry about why it happened. 

Everyone likes the have a good time, but be courteous and ride safe guys!

Does anybody knows any e-mail or contact info for Croom. I think that for $50 that we been charge the Trails should be maintain better and smooth down some of the whoops. It is a good and covenient place to go riding for few hours if you can't make the trip to ONF.

I bet they can't catch me on the banshee

FYI for you guys that want to out run the police and forestry people.  They can find you.  If you out run the forestry they will turn you over to the police.  If you out run the police you can go to jail and/or have your quad confiscated.  Remember they live in the area and see the regular riders and know those that are causing problems.  They aren't stupid and will eventually find you.  Is it really worth jail time or losing your quad for evading reather than taking a ticket?  In addition it is that type of attitude and behavior that gives us a bad name and makes them more likely to limit where we can ride and what we can do.  What is so difficult about riding w/in the rules?

What she said!!  Everyones tune will change once they have to pay to get their quad back from the impound.  Or better yet, removing it from a tree that moved in front of ya while looking back to see if they're still behind you.

I think there are some good points to regulating the trails, and there are some bad. Of course I don't like someone telling me where I have to ride or what direction to go; because I'm not really looking at where I'm going, I'm just going. But having trails marked is kewl, because everyone knows it's not fun getting lost.
  As far as they say we're destroying the eco sytems...that is unrealistic. I've worked with forestry. They plant trees for production ,tear down the trees,clear the land and replant. I've done controlled burning -the whole nine yards.There is no way we do more damage to the environment than they do.
  I think the whole issue is money. Croom charges money,they also give the government money. The government sees the growing number of riders...someone is gonna see money.
   The ever growing population is gonna continue...and it might be necessary for us to do certain things to ensure we maintain places for us to ride.

your'e just saying that because you can't outrun anyone with a sticking rear brake ;-)

 :-*

Id@

LMBO!  Got the brakes fixed now though.

QT-

 :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif

You gotta realize, if you run, they will not give up. Because if they give up, they send a message that it's OK to run. I'm tellin' ya, it'll be ugly. QT is right. You'll lose your quad, you'll get criminal charges, and it'll cost you thousands of dollars. Is it worth it to prove a point? ::)

I have read several of the threads, and It's not the garbage that is the problem, it seems to me that there seems to be new trails, that people have created by going cross country thus the destruction of the environment. The trail system is international, from the US to New Zealand. It has worked out in California for quite a long time. The threads seem to be complaining about something that can't be changed. It seems like this is a done deal, the more resistance the worse it is going to be for all of us, and I like riding in the forest, 150 miles of trails is better than none. Besides it is my understanding that the ATV have 150 miles of trails, the motorcycles should be complaining they have only 13 miles of trails. It sounds to me like the ATV has the best of all plans.

The Orlando Sential did an article on this several months ago, and they said if you are caught off the trail, there will be a $500.00 fine. I personally can not afford that stiff of a fine. True catch me if you can, with that kind of fine, they will eventually catch you.

OHV Florida is also working trying to find new sites that the OHV can use. The riding place in North Florida Tates something I believe was done in conjuction with OHV Florida.

There was a website up in December of Last year, that explained the deal, had maps of the existing trails and the proposed trails. There was also a email application that you could send to the appropiate people on what you thought of the new system. That was the time to make your voice heard, to late now. I found post for this website on a lot of motorcycle, atv etc websites, you couldn't miss it. If you didn't send one in and voice your opinion do you have the right to complain?

You hit the proverbial nail on the head.

I haven't even picked up my 2000 grizzly and already I am getting bummed about how few places I may have to ride it.
  You guys who want to outrun the police, break rules etc......maybe you can find someones posted land to do it on?
  I hate to think I am driving over to sarasota from Daytona.....just to tow an ATV back home to put it up for sale.
  Makes me think I should have gone with a waverunner.

             chuck

Hey chuck and welcome to "the site"  ;D  Don't despair, there's lots of great riding places, you just need to hook up with a group of us on one of our next rides.  Check out that section and start finding out what's going on.  As far as ONF, they have been talking up there about the trails for a long time, this summer a ranger told me that by October, the trails would be in place.  Well, I don't see it yet, not to say it won't happen.  Hope to see you on the trails soon.  :)

Talked to a ranger yesterday, it seems January will be the start of the new trail system, but we will see.

Designated trails will become the norm for all areas eventually.  I think riding where you want is history unless its at a private place like Underhills or River Ranch.  I just hope they make some of the designated trails through mud holes so the utilitys can still have some fun but I doubt it.

first I'd like to say I have not ever ridden on a trail system so I don;t know if it will be good or bad . but I'm willing to try if I have to and it sounds as though I will have to . second, there is an old saying , you may out run my police car but you won't out run my radio, and i'm sure that would apply to atv's as well. I for one can't take the results of loseing that kind of a race. at best it would cost $$$$ at worst I'd be a crippeled wreck and out a lot of money.  or I could be some place where nothing would matter.(dead)

Your right trail systems will become the Norm. I have ridden several what some people closed trail systems on several occassions. It wasn't that bad, actually I kind of liked it. I knew getting lost was not an issue or running out of gas. If the forest service do the trail system right, it won't be bad. Even some of the private areas won't let you go cross country and you have to stay on the trails. My view is 150 miles is better than none, and I am going to ride what I can now. I have been on one of the trails, I think, it was awsome. The trail was narrow, not real wide, so my ATV skills got tested. The ATV races are on closed courses and much shorter.

Some of the advantages is I am not going to get lost, and I won't have to run up the numbered roads to find my way home, and possible get a fine. I think another advantage is if I am riding with a group of riders that are faster than I am, they don't have to wait for me so I can find my way home.

I don't agree that big brother is telling me where to ride, but I don't have a choice, so a positive attatude is the best. I think since this is so new in the Ocala National Forest, there will be room for growth, and that will be the time to put your two cents in. But I think we should give it a chance.

Part of the fun of riding is getting lost, then finding your way back. The thrill of exploring is gone when your on a designated system, you know your going the same place everyone else has been, and there's no chance your gonna run out of gas cause it's been made simple. I don't condone creating a trail through a enviormentally sensitive area, but whats wrong with exploring the forest?

amen brutha

Id@

DITTO

"catch me if you can"
 Not hard to do if you are the only one on the trail.....

   I remember driving on Daytona Beach with a car. Used to be able to do it 24 hours a day....FREE.  Now you can only drive a part of the beach...until sunset AND pay for the privledge.
  Not hard to catch you when you are alone on the beach.
  Not many complained when they took the driving "priveledge" away........
      Like I have said before....I am JUST getting started with ATVing.  I am not a young man.  So you think you can break rules and get away with it.....yup, maybe you can.  But what happens when everyone is banned because you couldn't stay on the trail?  I do not try to run peoples lives, but sometimes other peoples actions cause consequences for others.
     Do what you want.....I have been there and done that.
  Florida is getting smaller, we may need to get together just to keep a
one way 15 MPH trail open........AND pay big bucks for the ride.

        Chuck