ATV Florida Forum

This goes Hand in Hand with Cain73's post about the truth of New Orleans. as time marches on the Truth will be revealed. sorry it is also long.
A SAD STATE OF CORRUPT LOCAL GOVERNMENT LOOKING FOR A HAND OUT.

Politics over duty

 

    This is a post from a fellow over in Merritt Is, FL, a reporter who's been researching what went on before the storm hit

    I think all of Nagin's pomp and posturing is going to bite him hard in the near future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming to light.

    On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Nagin and Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of New Orleans and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed.

    President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act).

       Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up.

       He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.

    Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation.

       After a personal plea from the President, Mayor Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action.

       In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.

    Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to New Orleans for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships.

       Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were.

    The suffering people of New Orleans need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states.

       Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.

    This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.

 

VERY INTERESTING, Thank's for sharing it

i heard the same thing!  bush called her and she denied, she said she would call for help when SHE thought it was needed.  she kept everyone out!  red cross said they had MANY trucks lined up and ready to go but was not let in due to the governor's decision.  national guard wasnt let in either!  that b**ch

AND THEY BLAMED IT ON BUSH!

rl.

It's a horrible tragedy that an obvious natural disaster was confounded by ego and refusal to accept help from the President. And further the outrageous actions of those that lived through it by turning the place into a horror scene from a post apocalyptic movie where anarchy reigns. And then for a few loudmouths to scream racism and blame the entire thing on our President that has only acted in the  best interests of those impacted by the devastation.

Bush will still get blamed for it. Trust me.

Very interesting indeed.  Doesn't matter what the truth is anymore, by the time the politicians, the talking heads and the spin doctors get done, they will find some way to blame those blasted outlaw ATV riders for contributing to the ozone depletion by destroying the forest and animals by all the toxic waste spewed out on the wetlands, blah, blah.  Yep, it was the ATV's fault for the 'cane, guilty by association  >:D

You think that 1 natural disaster did more damage than a billion ATV's could ever do?  Yep, that's Bush's fault too  ;D  Just human nature to want to blame someone.  Eve blamed the snake, Adam blamed Eve, and so it goes.... 

I need to go ride  ;D ;D

Just wait for another cane rolls in and they're left homeless, then Bush will get blamed for not acting quick enough. Sad enough to say, but it's hurricane season.

I just hope that Bush maintains his strong character and convictions.Standing by what he believes in his heart to be the right thing and NOT start telling people what they want to hear. The head of FEMA was a tatal scape-goat. He may have been slightly under qualified for this tragity but other then Gen Swartzkoff is there anyone thats really ready for something like this. Nobody to this day has ever needed to prepare for something like this within our boarders,nor could they. I 100% believe Nagin and Blundering Blanco are to blame and should be strung out to dry.

God save us from the HILDABEAST

I hope that the post is true, and that it is revealed to be so, but I have to stick by my guns and ask for verification on things like this.

"Trust but verify"

Id@

I'm with Ida on this one---

But I do love that last paragraph-"it's not a time for people to be pointing fingers....."

I'm pretty sure that's what is being done in this article though.

 

so true

I would have to disagree. I have been seeing Bush throwing money at the problem, showing up to more photo opts in New Orleans and having his FEMA director Brown resign. To me this is not a sign of strong character, but of desperation to keep his approval rating higher than 38% and his 55% dissaproval rating lower. He has been on the offensive ever since people on both sides of the party lines are attacking his response to the tragedy. The Administration is as they say in the News "Trying to stay ahead of the story".

To be fair Bush has been doing a better job, but it's a scary thought to think this could happen again. Hopefully future Presidents don't make this mistake.

WHAT MISTAKE DID BUSH MAKE. HE DECLARED A STATE OF EMERGENCY BEFORE THE STORM HIT. THIS IS NOT BUSH'S FAULT, HE DID WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE DONE AND THEN SOME. I BELIEVE HE WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT WAS REQUIRED OF HIM.  LIBERALS NEED TO GET THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR RECTUMS AND UNDERSTAND HOW THIS COUNTRY OPERATES UNDER OUR CONSTITUION. UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND THAT PLEASE QUIT REPLYING WITH THESE IGNORANT COMMENTS, IT ONLY MAKES YOU LOOK STUPID. :banghead.gif  :banghead.gif  :banghead.gif  :banghead.gif  :banghead.gif

Louisiana prides themselves on being Hurricane “Survivors”. It is part of there culture and way of life. Just think… They invented hurricane party’s hurricane drinks and anything else having to do with a hurricane. I work with a guy whose 87 year old father only took a change of clothes and a 1 day supply of medication. They where warned long before this hurricane left Florida. I heard Jeb loud and clear.. “Louisiana must begin preparations for hurricane Katrina!” The one that stayed behind said “Ohh somebody will help me” or “That hurricane is not that bad” and last but not least “I have lived threw hurricanes all my life and they are no big deal.”

ignorance has shown it's little head again

And to clarify my previous post, It would not surprise that the Governor of Louisiana would pass up all of the opportunities for help. In my opinion “NOBODY” from Louisiana takes hurricanes seriously.

I completely agree Pruelogic but for them to blame the president just drives me crazy.

WHAT MISTAKE DID BUSH MAKE.

Well I can think of a mistake that he made... He stopped the funding for a project that probably would have saved the city of New Orleans from being flooded and saved lives as well. Those walls and pumps were supposed to be built (w/ more funding) to stop a Hurricane of category 5 magnitude. Bush cut that funding for more money for the project in Iraq thus those walls were only built for cat. 3 and smaller. This my friend, no matter what way you look at it, failed those people of New Orleans. I've always said, take care of your house b/f you take care of your neighbors home.

Try reading what I wrote again or the News. This has to do with both parties so you cannot blame it on Liberals only.

You are absolutely right i shouldnt have blamed just on the liberals. Bad habit of mine, sorry. But you said "Hopefully future Presidents don't make this mistake." The only mistake he has made is not standing up and telling them all to kiss his a$$. 

The other mistake being the people he (Bush) appointed head of FEMA-very little/no experience for such a crucial positions.  Thank God it was a hurricane and not a massive terrorist attack.  God Bless those who lost their lives, and those who have to piece their life back together-but I believe our government and country will do everything necessary to correct the shortcomings and help the Gulf Coast with this tragedy-no matter what wing they are from.

That is it-the finger pointing could go on forever-in every political argument and that sucks-it's more finger pointing than accepting blame and coming up with the best solution to correct the problem or mistake!

Mark

Time will show us who made the mistakes, but until then we can just sit back and enjoy the Blame Game.

And to think the lefties would elect a woman...errr Hillary for our President. ::) God help us. That woman on Louisiana should be immediately impeached & the mayor brought up on charges.

Bush sent plenty of money to the region for walls to be built, most of that money was diverted to build more casinos and tourist areas. It is the State and Parishes and City's fault for not following through with the construction of the wall. Also, how do you expect the head of FEMA to have experience in this?? There has never been such a hurricane to hit us so he could have no training. Also Bush was trying to protect the country from more terroist attacks to shutup the democrats that blamed him for that too. Noone expected a hurricane like this to hit, NOONE is to blame for this. If you want to blame someone, blame the people that stayed, what idiot stays in the path of a F3 Tornado thats 400miles wide and will be on top of you for 24hours? Most people would run from an F1 tornado, but this hurricane was as powerful as an F3 and they stayed, they are the idiots that had a week to walk their lazy butts down the highway and get to saftey. In a week I could have walked well out of the path of danger. Instead they just sit there and say the gov't didnt get them out.

Preach that gospel brother. I am definitely on the same page as BigScrub

The head of FEMA (Brown) had little experience with any emergency or disaster relief situations.  He could have had the proper training and been better prepared for any disaster situation-Bush appointed him shortly after the 9/11 tragedy-Where did he come from?-from Bush's 2000 election campaign-'Hey buddy, I need to fill this here position since you helped me in the 2000 election'.  Do you think his ignorance maybe is why he resigned??!!??

A hurricane has been dealt in the past, correct?  The only difference was the catastrophic flooding and the size of the hurricane.  We could only anticipate the damage-which was anticipated to be catastrophic-the preparations for immediate relief should have been a little sooner.  No matter why the people stayed-no transportation, no money, no clue!

so, what was the difference in FEMA's reaction to Katrina as compared to Charley, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne?

Since it is the State that governs when Federal assistance is brought in,,,,,wonder what the difference was?

could it be a governator that understands that his/her state needs the help as fast as possible?

Id@

You didn't know Horse Farming is one of the qualifications for a FEMA Director under the Homeland Security Act?  :)

Help turned away?

State officials also are being blamed for turning back assistance during the critical first few days. Sheriff Steve Simpson, of Loudon County, Virginia, sent 22 deputies with supplies and 14 vehicles, including four all-terrain vehicles. But he called them back when Louisiana state police officials waved him off.

"I said, 'What if we just show up?' and he says, 'You probably won't get in," Simpson told CNN. Later that night, Blanco cleared legal hurdles that would have allowed local officials to accept the help, but no one ever got back to Simpson.

"I'm very frustrated, trying to figure out what went wrong in that process," Simpson said.

The White House has suggested that Gov. Blanco also failed to call early enough for the federal help she needed. The governor's office says that before, during and after the storm, Blanco's message to the president was consistent. (Watch the video on political defensive moves -- 1:56)

"The governor genuinely felt at that time she had asked for help," press secretary Denise Bottcher said, "She said, 'We need your help. We need everything you've got.'"

Blanco lashed out at FEMA Tuesday for what she said was a "lack of urgency and lack of respect" involving the recovery of bodies of Hurricane Katrina victims.

Blanco said she ordered the state to sign a contract with Kenyon International Monday , after Chertoff failed to live up to renew the private disaster recovery firm's contract. The company has been recovering bodies in New Orleans.

Kenyon worked for the Australian government to identify the remains of tourists killed during the December tsunami, and the company handled the remains of plane passengers who crashed into a Pennsylvania field during the September 11 attacks.

Kenyon told the state that if they didn't get a contract soon, they would be force to leave as soon as they professionally could.

"In death, as in life, our people deserve more respect than they have received," Blanco said.

Source: CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/13/katrina.response/index.html)

Today Bush announced that he is taking responsibility for the failures related to Hurricane Katrina.  I was a little surprised and it made me think better of him because of it.  I think that's what most Americans wanted him to do when we did not find any WMD's in Iraq due to failed intellegence which was the reason for war.  No president is perfect and they all have made mistakes but it takes courage to admit when your wrong.

Takes a lot of guts to admit you were wrong especially when you are in politics. It's considered Taboo and was the fall for Clinton. See if Bush pulls out of this.

 :D  I guess it would be beneficial to have a horse farmer ahead of FEMA in the event we run out of fuel-he might be kinda handy then!!

I wish every one would stop pointing fingers and move fwd. pointing fingers takes time away from the problem at hand HELP the people get back to fairly normal lives and then figure out whos them blame. The world has become sue happy and forget the the main focus.

I say that Bush did a great job in this situation! He is only one man trying to run the country, what else can you ask the man for? Well Done Bush!!!  ;D

I don't like to flame anyone in this forum, but I can't help but to do it this time. You, my friend have to be still in your teens and don't have the slightest clue as to how life really works or you're purely blinded by your living conditions thinking EVERYONE lives as plush as you do.

1st) The funding WAS cut by our President George W. Bush JR. His excuse for cutting the funding was needing more money for the war on Terrorism. But, in turn the blame SHOULD NOT be placed on him. But he didn't help the situation.

2nd) You made the statement about why people didn't evacuate and purely "sat" in the way of the hurricane. Just b/c (You) may have the means to ride or even walk (which I'm more than sure you wouldn't have done) 100 - 200 miles away, not everyone had those means. And might I remind you that there were many elderly that passed away who went to the Superdome b/c of the conditions afterwards. There were ALOT of old and disabled people as well as those that were simply too poor to leave. THEY HAD NO MEANS (money, transportation, or health) TO EVACUATE!!! Whether they wanted to or not. Did you see where the disabled man was rescued from the waters clinging to a tree for his dear life? He had no legs. Guess he could've walked to safety to ha? What about those 34 people that drowned in the nursing home when they were abondoned b/c of the floods that overtook the facility. Guess they could have up and left on their own to ha? Those people didn't deserve to die that way. Exspecially when it could have been prevented from the so called leaders of that state.

As far as "Blame". The Mayor and the Governor dropped the ball. They should have loaded those 100's of busses that are now under water and taken those people to higher ground. They should have had a "Mandatory evacuation".

And for those of you who agree w/ BigScrub post, you need to look yourselves in the mirror and see pure disgust. It ashames me that there are fellow American brothers and sisters who feel this way. But I guarrantee you this, if those were his loved ones bodies floating in that water or missing he'd have a totally different opinion.

And 38% of Americans agree, Bush can do no wrong!!

2nd) You made the statement about why people didn't evacuate and purely "sat" in the way of the hurricane. Just b/c (You) may have the means to ride or even walk (which I'm more than sure you wouldn't have done) 100 - 200 miles away, not everyone had those means. And might I remind you that there were many elderly that passed away who went to the Superdome b/c of the conditions afterwards. There were ALOT of old and disabled people as well as those that were simply too poor to leave. THEY HAD NO MEANS (money, transportation, or health) TO EVACUATE!!! Whether they wanted to or not. Did you see where the disabled man was rescued from the waters clinging to a tree for his dear life? He had no legs. Guess he could've walked to safety to ha? What about those 34 people that drowned in the nursing home when they were abondoned b/c of the floods that overtook the facility. Guess they could have up and left on their own to ha? Those people didn't deserve to die that way. Exspecially when it could have been prevented from the so called leaders of that state.

As far as "Blame". The Mayor and the Governor dropped the ball. They should have loaded those 100's of busses that are now under water and taken those people to higher ground. They should have had a "Mandatory evacuation".

And for those of you who agree w/ BigScrub post, you need to look yourselves in the mirror and see pure disgust. It ashames me that there are fellow American brothers and sisters who feel this way. But I guarrantee you this, if those were his loved ones bodies floating in that water or missing he'd have a totally different opinion.

I've noticed some people don't seem to grasp how poor or disabled these people really are and how they just can't evacuate out without assistance. It's sad.

Bigscrb15, 38% is not a good number for any President.

Rob and TRX i agree that the disabled were the unfortunate in this event, the poor also did not have the financial means to evacuate. The problem is the mayor and governer screwed up. I get upset that after this happens they (the poor) get upset at the president and start yelling that this is racial. Believe me if i was poor and stayed and then had to get out afterwards i would not sit back and blame anyone other than myself. I feel horrible for the disabled but the poor able body people that were out there walking around hooting and hollering about this is whoevers fault just disgust me. If you are able to stand in front of the camera and whine and cry then you are able to find a job. If you do not have the education or will power to get up and find a job then blame your parents, and try ot change yourself. Stop sitting back and expecting people to do things for you. I am also thrilled to death to hear they charged the couple that ran the nursing home with 34 counts of murder.

I heard yesterday on the Sean Hannity radio show that Amtrak offered assistance with evacuating those that didn't have ability to drive themselves out...I am not sure if it was the Mayor or the Governor but the response was "No". It is my opinion that the Governor and Mayor are on the offensive (directing blame towards the Federal Gov't) simply to take the focus off of their own ineptitude.
Pat

I agree with your points about the disabled and I really wish they could have gotten out easier. I don't know anyone on this forum that wishes the diabled would have got hurt or killed. Im glad we both agree that the Governor and Mayor also dropped the ball, not just President Bush.
I do believe the problem on the board right now is that everyone hears something and swears it as gospel. Very little of what we hear about the money being spent here and there is true, and we need to research what we say before we say it.

Not everyone in America can be well off financially. Even in the early days you had the poor, middle class, and upper class people. You're making an argument that b/c they're poor and b/c they don't have the means to evacuate then it's their fault ::). Our society is not designed for EVERYONE to be well off. In a perfect world that would be lovely, but that's not reality! Not everyone can make that nice income most of us here do and provide for their family, not everyone can make that 6 digit figure or close to it, some of those people work hard for that $6/hr and struggle to survive. They're tax paying citizens and deserve better than the hand they were dealt. Many people didn't have cars b/c the transit system was a MAJOR part of New Orleans transportation system. When the transit system went down, they had (here's that word again) NO MEANS to leave. Just b/c they don't make a certain amount of money doesn't give the goverment the right to "Forget" about them and make them ride a storm out when they knew there would be catastrophic results.

I am not saying we should forget about them. I refuse to believe there was no way out for them. The disabled yes but not the poor. There is always a way out no matter what. I am not saying we should blame them, i am saying they should take their own resposibility and stop blaming people. You cant rely on the government for your entire life eventually you have to make your own decisions and if it doesnt work out, deal with the consequences. I understand they are poor and i feel for them believe me, been there done that. I also know that you cant sit there and say there is no way they can stop from being poor, again been there done that. I am not rich i dont make a 6 figure income, but i am by no means poor. I have worked some horrible jobs i didnt like but you do what you have to in order to make money. We should continue to help these people but at what point do we realize that some dont want to help themselves.

I am also tired of arguing about this, i understand and respect your opinions. Hope to meet yall at a ride someday. Let me know if you are riding at any tracks around Polk County Rob, I have been wanting to check out the quads on the track.

In terms of those deadbeat citizens you're correct. But I'm talking about the people that work hard just as you and I do. I'm also was one of those people that used to work for 5.75/hr. There were days when I was wondering how my rent would get paid. I worked my way up the ladder and now  I make almost quadruple that (Thanx to Law Enforcement ;)). But not everyone is able to get those same breaks and opportunities that you and I have.

So how do you recommend the poor should have evacuated? Enlighten me and help me to understand how someone that has not much money gets anywhere in a country where money makes everything move. Help me to better understand this.

I have never been in there situation so i cant tell you exactly how to get out of there. I can tell you that I would have found a way. What way that is i dont know, i would just be making it up.

I agree with your points about the disabled and I really wish they could have gotten out easier. I don't know anyone on this forum that wishes the diabled would have got hurt or killed. Im glad we both agree that the Governor and Mayor also dropped the ball, not just President Bush.
I do believe the problem on the board right now is that everyone hears something and swears it as gospel. Very little of what we hear about the money being spent here and there is true, and we need to research what we say before we say it.

I'll definitely end it on that note and agree with the fact that local and federal government officials dropped the ball.  And as I said before-this tragedy will be hopefully looked at very carefully so the outcome of any type of devastation in the future will not lead to so many avoidable and cruel deaths.  

OUR HEARTS, HOPES AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE SURVIVORS,  THOSE WHO ARE SUFFERING, MISSING LOVED ONES AND ALL THOSE UP THERE HELPING OUT WITH THIS TRAGIC SITUATION!!

"United We Stand, Divided We Fall"---   So let's get it together!!

Mark

I completely agree, God bless all those who made it through, those who didnt, and all those helping out.

It's very easy to sit here on this board and say, "I would've found a way to get out". Sad thing is... you can't tell me here after the fact how you would have done it. Not good for making a statement that the people should have left themselves. Many of those people were probably trying to figure out ways to get out themselves and couldn't come up w/ a plan either w/o enough money to do so  :(

You are absolutely right its easy for me to say that. I cant tell you how because i dont know how they lived and what was around them, I dont know and of the circumstances first hand.  Its like asking what would you do if you won the lottery, you cant truthfully say until that happens. So therfore im not going to sit here and tell you how i would get out because i dont honestly know. I do know that I would have found a way. Its hard for me to remember that not everyone is like me and I apologize for being so tough on them.

:Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif
My point exactly.
someone on this thread has said it best that welfare is assistance not a way of life. Then for someone to have the intestinal fortitude to claim to be a victim  receive a govt approved credit card set up for true victims only to not be a victim at all, to top it all off she goes off and buys a $800.00 purse while kids are going hungry :cursing.gif that is just flat out unacceptable I hope that she will be used as an example for anyone else fraudulently trying to benefit with a scam.

All I ask you is that you put yourself in those peoples situation. Even if you could have a evacuated, who's to say you would have had shelter to ride the storm out in once you did leave. Alot of those peoples families were right there w/ them. They didn't have family 200miles away to stay w/. Some of those people have never been out of Lousiana or even New Orleans for that matter. Unless given assistance, the only shelter they had is now filled w/ water.

I hope this brings us all closer together as AMERICANS. Not race, poitical class, financial class, bike type (YFZ450 rulez), etc... Unfortunate thing about it... It'll never be that way :'(.

Agreed........... Except for the YZF450 rulez comment  :)

I wish it would also, some people are just too hard headed. I know i can be quite often on my opinions.

I told my wife before the storm hit that they should be evacuating everyone out of there using City and State buses.  They announced a mandatory evacuation so the local government should have been assisting in the evacuation process.  They knew the surge would go over the Levee's and that they could possibly fail.  The President as (Chief and Commander) has the power during a state of emergency to override anything the local government desides on.  I wish he or someone would have made the desicion to get everyone out of there.