ATV Florida Forum

This is the latest email from FWC. 
Suburban Estates and RR could go the way of Big Cypress.


From: Cheri_Ehrhardt@fws.gov [mailto:Cheri_Ehrhardt@fws.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:01 PM
To: EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov
Subject: Public Meeting Notice: Public Scoping Meetings Scheduled for the Proposed
Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and Conservation Area - Comments
Requested by February 28, 2011

 

New National Wildlife Refuge Proposed in Florida:
Public Scoping Meetings Announced to Discuss the Proposed Everglades Headwaters
National Wildlife Refuge and Conservation Area

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) and a variety of public and private
partners are advancing a collaborative approach to address landscape-scale land
protection efforts to conserve wildlife and habitat in the greater Everglades
landscape. This partnership is the Greater Everglades Partnership Initiative
(Initiative).

“This initiative is aimed at preserving a rural working ranch landscape to protect
and restore one of the great grassland and savanna landscapes of eastern North
America. The partnerships being formed would protect and improve water quality north
of Lake Okeechobee, restore wetlands, and connect existing conservation lands and
important wildlife corridors to support the Everglades restoration effort." - U.S.
Department of Interior Secretary Ken Salazar


This partnership initiative would help conserve a rural working ranch landscape;
protect and restore habitat; protect, improve, and restore water quality and
wetlands benefiting residents and visitors in South Florida; and connect a matrix of
existing conservation lands and important wildlife corridors, supporting Everglades
restoration efforts. Three study areas have been defined within the greater
Everglades landscape: (1) the Everglades headwaters area, (2) the Fisheating Creek
area, and (3) the area around Florida Panther NWR and the Caloosahatchee River. The
Service is currently focused on the first study area.

Proposed Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and Conservation Area
The proposed Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and Conservation Area is
a proposed land conservation partnership between federal, Tribal, State, and local
governments; ranchers and other landowners; non-governmental conservation
organizations; area residents; and other stakeholders to protect, restore, and
conserve approximately 150,000+ acres of environmentally important natural habitat
and associated wildlife in portions of Polk, Osceola, Indian River, Okeechobee, and
Highlands counties in Central Florida, within a larger 4.5 million-acre landscape
that extends from the southern outskirts of the Orlando metro area south through the
Kissimmee River Valley to Lake Okeechobee, and southwest to Florida Panther National
Wildlife Refuge and Big Cypress Preserve.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and partners would work with willing landowners
to establish the proposed 150,000-acre Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife
Refuge and Conservation Area through several methods, including already-established
conservation lands, fee simple purchases, conservation easements, leases,
conservation and mitigation banks, lands set aside through habitat conservation
plans, and/or cooperative agreements with landowners. The planning target is to work
with partners and willing landowners to conserve approximately 50,000 acres in fee
title acquisitions and 100,000 acres in less than fee title. The Service’s policy is
to work with willing landowners.

Four Public Scoping Meetings Scheduled
Four public scoping meetings have been scheduled in the area of the proposal to
provide the public the opportunity to hear a presentation about the proposal and to
ask questions and submit comments, ideas, and concerns. We invite all interested
individuals, organizations, businesses, and agencies to join us at one or more of
these meetings. Comments may also be submitted by email, mail, or fax (see the How
to Submit Comments section below).


Date

Meeting Location

Address


1.26.2011
Wednesday
6:00-9:00 pm

Kissimmee Civic Center

201 East Dakin Ave
Kissimmee, FL 34741


2.4.2011
Friday
6:00-9:00 pm

Sebring Civic Center

355 West Center Ave
Sebring, FL 33870


2.9.2011
Wednesday
6:00-9:00 pm

Okeechobee High School

2800 Hwy 441 N
Okeechobee, FL 34972


2.10.2011
Thursday
6:00-9:00 pm

Vero Beach High School
Main Campus Cafeteria

1707 16th St
Vero Beach, FL 32960


What is the Schedule for the Proposal?
We are in the early stages of the project and are requesting input from the public.
After this public scoping phase, we will use the comments gathered to help us
develop a Land Protection Plan and associated National Environmental Policy (NEPA)
document. We will then return to the public to request comments on the document and
the more detailed proposal. Four main planning phases are outlined for this
proposal, as listed.


Planning Phase

Estimated Dates


Conduct Public Scoping Meetings

January-February 2011


Develop Draft Land Protection Plan and NEPA Document

March-May 2011


Request Public Review and Comment on Proposal

June 2011


Develop Final Plan

August-September 2011


How to Get More Information?
For more information on this proposal and to view a map of the study area, please
visit: http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/. (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/.)

For more information on the Greater Everglades Partnership Initiative and to view a
map of all three study areas, please see the Fact Sheet at:
http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/pdf/GreaterEvergladesFactsheet.pdf. (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/pdf/GreaterEvergladesFactsheet.pdf.)

To view the recent press release from earlier this month, please visit:
http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/Salazar-Announces-Initiative-to-Conserve-Working-Lands-and-Wildlife-Habitat-in-the-Everglades-Headwaters.cfm. (http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/Salazar-Announces-Initiative-to-Conserve-Working-Lands-and-Wildlife-Habitat-in-the-Everglades-Headwaters.cfm.)

To get on the mailing list for the proposed Everglades Headwaters NWRCA, please fill
out and scan/email back or mail in this form:
http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/pdf/MailingListRequest.pdf. (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/pdf/MailingListRequest.pdf.)

How to Submit Comments?
To comment on the proposal,

please send email to: EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov;
please send mail to: Everglades Headwaters Proposal, PO Box 2683, Titusville, FL
32781-2683;
please fax to: 321.861.1276; and/or
please attend one of the public scoping meetings.


We request that scoping comments be received by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
by February 28, 2011 to ensure their consideration in the development of the Land
Protection Plan and NEPA document that will outline the detailed proposal.

____________________
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is the principal federal agency responsible for
conserving, protecting and enhancing fish, wildlife and plants and their habitats
for the continuing benefit of the American people. The Service manages the 150
million-acre National Wildlife Refuge System, which encompasses the more than 550
management units, thousands of small wetlands and other special management areas. It
also operates 37 wetland management districts, 70 national fish hatcheries, 65
fishery resource offices, and 81 ecological services field stations. The agency
enforces federal wildlife laws, administers the Endangered Species Act, manages
migratory bird populations, restores nationally significant fisheries, conserves and
restores wildlife habitat such as wetlands, and helps foreign governments with their
conservation efforts. It also oversees the Federal Aid program that distributes
hundreds of millions of dollars in excise taxes on fishing and hunting equipment to
state fish and wildlife agencies.
Cheri M Ehrhardt, AICP
Natural Resource Planner

US Fish & Wildlife Service
PO Box 2683
Titusville, FL 32781-2683

Cheri_Ehrhardt@fws.gov
321.861.2368 office
321.593.2516 cell
321.861.8913 fax

  _____ 

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com (http://www.avg.com)
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Don't know what else to say that will inspire ATVers to be more-involved and be MUCH more-custodial to the environment we ALL enjoy. There's way too many folks at RR who feel they've a right to be totally-irresponsible out there. Can't tell you how many knuckle-draggers without flags have nearly killed me, trash, DUI, etc.. Let's hope that when it eventually happens, RR will only be like Big Cypress and not much worse(OHVs totally banned).

As the folks in Big Cypress found out....this affects more than just ATVers. 

You bet! That's why I referred to OHVs. Street-legal 4x4s(JEEPs, trucks, etc.) won't be allowed in most areas, if at all. Buggies will have to comply with tighter environmental regulations, if allowed at all. All vehicles must stay only on designated trails, 15mph speed limit, etc.. And, after they buy up the land for pennies on the dollar, they'll close those areas and it'll take them years to sort out all of the new rules before reopening to OHVs, regardless.

and just wait when a hunter takes down a large animal and has to tote it out by brute strength, because no airboats or the above.

I am all for saving animals, but most hunters that I know understand that they are stewards of the land they hunt and work to keep it for the wildlife.

http://www.refugewatch.org/2011/01/07/salazar-announces-proposal-for-new-everglades-headwaters-nwr/ (http://www.refugewatch.org/2011/01/07/salazar-announces-proposal-for-new-everglades-headwaters-nwr/)

I really don't think anyone will have anything to worry about at all if this becomes a reality. Which, I'm confident it will.

The reason I say there's nothing to worry about is because what they're proposing (and have been for around 7 years now) is the creation of a refuge and conservation area. This is an important distinction. Why? Because it means that as a refuge and conservation area, it will be subject to extremely rigid restrictions. Moreover, it's part of a key watershed area for a national park and preserve. In other words, I doubt very seriously that any OHV use will be permitted within this area once the transformation is complete.

Keep in mind, the Big Cypress is a National Preserve and not a park. Thanks only to the efforts of the sportsmen within the Big Cypress (the OHV/ATV community has done very little to nothing), we can still enjoy OHV use within the preserve. Moreover, other national lands (such as forests) have designating language that permits use of OHV's in certain instances. Make it a park, a refuge or conservation area governed by the federal government and you'll most certainly see a total ban on OHV use.

This plan has been in creation for years. The Florida watershed protection "plan" is nothing new. Eventually, RR will be the same. And all of those folks with camps on property that's legally not theirs will be gone. If your camp is on your legally defined property and your camp is 100% up to code, you might be able to keep it. However, use of the remaining property (that they never had legal right to use anyway) will be limited at best. When will this happen? Not sure. But, I'd imagine within the next 15 years.

I agree that is would be fighting a losing battle, but it is a battle I chose to fight. 
Yes, it will not happen in a time frame that will affect MY use of the property, but it is a battle I chose to fight.
 

Im for this plan and conseration,and preservation over developement IF a designated area for atv use IS DESIGNATED!!!!!!   but if you have NO area at all like South Florida this and any plan will be a failure and a waist of money!!!!!!!    Why has there been no plan for a safe,managed area for recreational use for atv's and dirtbikes?  this would draw people away from areas being conserved for preservation and relieve the already stressed police forces trying to protect these VERY areas!!!!!!!      If you outlaw atv's and dirtbikes ONLY OUTLAWS WILL OWN AND USE THEM!!!!!!!     THIS IS A FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED LEGAL RECREATIONAL ACTIVITY!!!            this is not a crime!!!!!!!!!             its a family building activity and a way of life for millions accross the country and the world!!!!!!!      to many people have been exposed and subjected to improper,unsafe,unmanaged,areas that exist because of a lack of or in the case of South Florida NON_EXISTENCE and therefore they think and have a misperception of the activity. There is a way this works and many places are successful and sustainable that are designated throughout the country.  

Yeah well, good luck trying to present a "good image" with the ATV riders in south east Florida.

I am going to agree with Anoriginal on this one.  You cannot go up against this type of thing blustering and spouting off.  You have to research, you have to learn and you have to use the patience of a saint.

Yep, we have gotten a pretty bad deal, but there is a lot of the bad image out there because the 10% of bad ATVers love to post "tearing it up" and giving these people video proof of what they need to win.  Sad.  The rest of us lose out due to this. 

“The Everglades plan announced today is an important initiative that will protect Florida’s ranching way of life, help provide safe drinking water to millions of Floridians and conserve our nation’s remarkable wildlife heritage,” said Evan Hirsche, President of the National Wildlife Refuge Association (NWRA). “This initiative serves as a vibrant model for how we can achieve conservation results that benefit wildlife and people across the nation.”

The Greater Everglades Partnership Initiative will:

■Conserve biodiversity in areas that provide habitat to threatened and endangered species like Florida panthers, crested caracara and the Everglades snail kite;
■Protect a land base of sufficient mass and continuity to enable wildlife to migrate and adapt in response to climate change and other natural and man-made threats;
■Restore and protect water quality and quantity; and
■Prevent further landscape fragmentation by integrating the economic interests of private landowners with the best conservation practices to support traditional large-ownership land uses such as ranching and environmental
THIS SOUNDS LIKE LIBERAL B.S. what a waste of money

I wouldn't call it a waste of money. It's designed to protect a watershed area while preserving a way of life, cultural heritage and protecting wildlife in environmentally sensitive areas.

Nothing wrong with any of that.

more land for big sugar and the agricultural industry (big citrus) to filter water and dump millions of tons of contaminants like (phosphorus,sulfur,fertilizers,herbicides,pesticides) from their rancher way of life. Oh and they get to do it on an ATV,UTV,heck I guess even a dirtbike if you think about it. legally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    Who are the outlaws? and who are the criminals?       you tell me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's already happening in SE.  I don't recall the name of the landowner but there was a significant part of SE (which we didn't have access to anyways), right in the middle, that had been converted to a wetland area, at least the process was in motion the last time I was out there.  Haven't been back to SE since I purchased my RR land.  As I understood it, the northern half of SE would ultimately be cut-off north of the swimming hole and eventually, anything west of the powerlines.  Sucks because I have a very nice and dry 5 acres about half a mile from the drunk tree.  Anybody want to buy it?   ;)  I never put a camp out there because vandalism is rampant and there's no organized POA to speak of.  There's SEPA, but not enough organization or cooperation from the majority of landowners; just a very small group of dedicated people.

Agriculture is pretty important you know.  It does feed you.  If you want to buy the evioronmentalist view point, you have to buy the whole deal.  Farmers know that chemical usage needs to be kept low.  Heck, it costs too much to overuse.  Plus there are the government rules and regulations along with precise record keeping.  A farmner or rancher has to consider sustainablity and profit.   Now think about some of these homeowners.  They get the idea if they use double the amount they will get double the result.  Then you have the golf courses.  Talk about overkill on chemicals!  At least the farmer and rancher feed us, not just provide a playground to knock a ball in a hole.

Listen and learn before you speak.

 

renmus, great post.

Let's not forget that the landowners, ranchers and farmers who join into this conservation area will likely receive incentives in some form (tax, etc.) but, be subject to greater restrictions as a result thereof. This further ensures a cleaner, sustainable watershed.

yea right!!!!!!!! :D what a bunch of bull  the big agriculture companies have dumped their pollutants for decades in the watershed and have caused massive algae blums in the everglades for countless years        what are you a lobbyist now for them or something?

No, not a lobbyist.  Just someone who bothered to read and understand.  Try it sometime.
Oh, and I did work for a major agricultural concern for 25 years.  Guess what?  I had to keep records of every drop of chemical placed on any part of the land.  It is not done indescriminately and freely. 
Learn to appreciate the farmer/rancher.  He/She feeds you.  You are welcome.

If I might ask one thing of you....if given the opportunity, please do not speak on behalf of the ATV community to the general public. Pretty please?

X2

Worst part of this is that I am agreeing with Anoriginal.  I look to the old paraprosdokian:  If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.
Scary, huh?

I'd say us taxpayers appreciate farmers. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-04/most-u-s-farm-subsidies-go-to-10-of-recipients-group-says.html (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-04/most-u-s-farm-subsidies-go-to-10-of-recipients-group-says.html) . And, in the same way, we also appreciate the gauntlet of environmental and law-enforcement agencies which help protect and make our environment safe for us all to enjoy. But, by no means does paying taxes buy the right to recklessly destroy public lands.

YOUR ON THE WRONG WEBSITE!!!!!!!!        TREEHUGGER!!!!!!

???

Basically the topic on this posting is about FWC and loss of more riding areas.  Can we get back to that without foolishness?

Matt, what's your opinion on the difference between a wildlife preserve and a wildlife refuge? Since there are wildlife preserves containing private landowners, is there any chance of that occurring in the Headwater Proposal? Will the number of private landowners in the Headwater Proposed area be irrelevant? Will those owners be paid appraissed value(very low zoned agricultural) or market value? Will landowners be required to incur the cost for removing trailers, structures, septic systems, etc.? If so, will there be arsons? Will it simply go down like The Squares/Picayune Strand did a few years ago(everybody out now)? Would it matter if RRPOA implemented a designated trail system, now? I'm not trying to spread panic, just don't want folks waiting and wondering what happened to them.

From the federal perspective, a preserve allows for a more broad base of uses within the property while a refuge is the most restrictive. Big Cypress is a preserve. It allows private land ownership, ORV use, hunting, etc. That's not to say they couldn't draft a refuge plan that would allow private ownership. However, I think recreational use in a refuge would be severely limited to nonexistent. I'd imagine the headwaters would be a different beast all together with private enterprise, ownership and sale. However, the manner in which its conducted would have definite limitations and restrictions.

Regarding the prospect of government buyout, I do think it will eventually happen in RR and very similar to the way it happened in Picauyne. People will be paid the appraised value of their actual property (not the property where their camps are located). I don't imagine the property owners will be responsible for moving anything. Usually, the entity utilizing eminient domain to purchase the property handles that aspect. However, I think this is years away.

About desinated trails, it's not a bad idea. If RRPOA was truly well spoken, well organized and self policing, it would certainly help set the tone for what type of utilization people would enjoy over the property after a takedown. The more you're able to show you're a proper steward of the land, the more likely they are to work with you.

I spoke to Cheri Everhardt yesterday morning for about 45 minutes.  Many comments were blind answers from her.  She did say that many times they are told to expect hundreds at a meeting and find only 5 people showing up.  BE INVOLVED if you care.  Be aware that these will be facilitator driven meetings.  They will work to keep the meeting in the scope of what FWC wants regardless of the crowd input.  What she did state several times was basically a mission statement answer for FWC and a Wildlife Refuge standard:

Six wildlife-dependent public uses have been given priority consideration over other public uses. Priority public uses include hunting, fishing, wildlife observation and photography, and environmental education and interpretation. If these uses are determined to be compatible with refuge purposes, and funds are available to manage them, they will be allowed. The specifics of public use will be addressed in a refuge's Comprehensive Conservation Plan.

Note:  There are a lot of IFS unwritten in that statement.

If you go to one of the Public Scoping meetings it is best to stay calm.  Ask questions that cannot be later turned to work against you.  Read as much as you can about the proposal so that the double talk answer given cannot be made to look YOU seem to be a buffoon.  If they dance around your answer, ask it again.  Best to have written it down so you can show that it is the same question that was not answered.  

Thank you.

My family and I would truly miss RR. :'( :'( :'( I can't say I'm in favor of taking away one of the only ATV and hunting areas available in FL. I think it's reasonably well run, the number of people allowed in is kept in check by the having a manned front gate and memberships. The trails are litter free for the most part and most people keep to the trails. I can't believe RR is a big offender of water pollution like a big dairy or sugar cane feild would be. This just sucks IMO

Not to worry. I think this is years off. And, how it happens has a lot to do with the way RR is handled in the meantime. If things stay as they are, there's little hope.

You all here need a lot of help to understand u will lose it all if u don't OPPOSE any more Federal Sprawl on public land in Florida. I see by the posts that u all are not experienced with the Feds and especially motor hating USFWS National Wildlife Refuges. Their refuges are refuges for critters and especially not motor using people.

To suggest that this years away and not a big problem now is access suicide. USFWS is talking about having a plan to comment on in a few months. Now is the time to say NO loudly and in unison.

Suggest you all go to a facebook page "Stop Federal Sprawl" and/or Southern Airboat.com(SAC). Once at SAC go to the forum, then Airboat Talk, then "Feds Going for Kissimmee+".

At SAC u can get the real info on this bad idea with a promise of Wilderness Review and management protocols.
Chek out the project proposal, section xiv at pg 21 and see the tricky dickie language related to Wilderness. What it means is in layman English is that they will recommend and designate Wilderness although all they have to do is recommend in order to force Wilderness management protocols to be put in place. I tried to attach the project proposal but this site's limits prevented it. Will edit with a link later.
http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/ (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/)

Private landowners, farmers and cattle men can do what they want on this bad idea since it is their right under thre US Constitution. They are the backbone of America giving us our food and deserve our respect. They also need to know that if they take the bait for a quick buck they will also be screwed in the end the same as everyone else on public lands. It may take the Feds longer to get the shaft in them but they will over time (10-30 years) the same way it was done down in the Big Cypress and Addition. That is why this bad idea has to be fought and opposed possibly with landowners as allies.

Notice the USFWS has not listed who their so called partners are. Probably because they are intentionally creating a false impression of large support to make folks think they can't beat this thing. Very old political trick.

Kind of like planting folks on this forum to rob u of confidence.

So called PUBLIC LAND access is the responsibility of folks here. Yes RESPONSIBILITY - What do you think - someone is going to do it for u. Don't hold your breath.

It is unbelievable that folks here are suggesting to sit back and take the loss. No wonder why America is not what it was 50 years ago. No way America could happen today considering the percentage of gutless, lazy, green leaning slugs with no courage or confidence to fight.

Americans fight for their rights they don't sit back.

Every ATV club in America should be sending comments to this Erhardt lady saying NO HELL NO.

Working together en-masse Americans can stop anything they want to stop. The problem here is similar to racism. The bureaucrat bigots running things hate y'all and will screw u whenever they can. They cannot do it so easy if u get off your seat and go to the meetings and raise hell to the max in a POLITE manner with a SMILE on your face. That is hard to do but think about what u say no matter how harsh and force yourself to express a positive image by smiling - that way u don't get folks feeling sorry for the gov't. people having to put up with rudeness. This technique although somewhat unatural works in your favor.

Keep The Faith

I agree 100% with gladesman, people better speak up now. I have seen the governments idea of "public use" of lands and it's not really for the public at all.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Stop-Federal-Sprawl/131792456885788 (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Stop-Federal-Sprawl/131792456885788)

Call it out Gladesman.   As I stated, I am ready to fight this battle. 
I called the lady at FWC and got a lot of government doublespeak mumbo jumbo.  They believe they can BS this through.  Lets show them WE are the masters of BS, not them.

Ms Erhardt is not with FWC she is with the Feds (U S Fish and Wildlife Service). These folks main mission is to promote and enforce the Endangered Species Act (ESA) any way they can. One way is to bribe State agencies such as Div of Forestry and Fl Fish & Wildlife Commission in to caring more about Endgrd Species than people. They accomplish that with section 6 agreements described in detail at Section 6 of the ESA which pay agencies to protect endgr'd species and to further the purposes of the Act. That is the real reason FWC and Forestry will be hard to convince to oppose this tyranny. FWC and Div of Forestry are in these agreements as u read this. Lots of money reasons for them to suppoort this until folks know the dirty little secret  truth. Once they are outed they may run or try to defend their actions by moaning enviro concerns. Outing them is still worth the effort.
Speaking of the money reasons like these agreements publicly may make these cockroaches run. Post information illuminating these agreements as comments to a Jan 27 Sun Sentinel article written by Ken Salazar for the Sentinel. Go to Sentinel's home page, then search Sentinel's site using these 3 words exactly (salazar lightsey headwaters). Register and discuss what is before u here. It may help to google the Endangered Species Act and read section 6 so u can write more effectively since section 6 is not that long.
Other reasons explained on Southernairboat.com plus Facebook's "Stop Federal Sprawl page will also be effective justifications to vociferously but politely OPPOSE this planned removal of State Sovereignty supposedly guaranteed by the US Constitution. That is unless the State of Fl. is complicit as it looks like they might be unless a light of truth shines brightly upon them.
Your our comments are the LIGHT.
Not much time so work fast.
By the way this article has already been picked up in England. Trust me-the right folks see this stuff (the comments of folks like us) questions will start being asked if the Sentinel doesn't pull the plug. 

Gladesman -

First, your comments about us not having experience with the Feds and essentially not knowing what we're doing are off base. Especially if you're looking for support from the ATV community for your friends with SAC. Some of us on this site have vast experience dealing with the feds. I'm one of them. Having said that, we are all on the same side. However, getting everyone to realize it is difficult. More on that in a moment.

Second, the Kissimmee River watershed initiative has been in play for years and years. I posted on here about it probably three years ago. The river, and surrounding areas are prime watershed and the feeder into Okeechobee and eventually the Everglades. This isn't anything new. Much of the time for getting involved passed years ago. In my experience, once the feds get to a plan comments stage, the die is already cast. Usually, you'll get a few different proposed plans to comment on, you'll comment and then the feds will pick the one they want regardless. Similar to what's happening in the Addition Lands within the Big Cypress right now.  However, as usual, everyone is asleep at the wheel early on in the process and, they get involved too late and do too little to make any difference. River Ranch and the surrounding area has been in the mix since the late 90's. This isn't a secret initiative that was kept in the dark. Kudos to you and your group for getting involved. Hopefully with your help, people will salvage waht they can of the feds takeover.

Third, my comments about it being years off are correct. However, you can bet that eventually much (if not all) of River Ranch will be taken away. Never mind the fact that the vast majority of the property utilized by "members" of River Ranch isn't owned by them. Moreover, the majority of the camps within River Ranch are not built on property actually owned by the camp owners. This makes it very, very easy for the Feds or the State to exercise their powers of eminent domain and take property without having to pay and arm and a leg for it. I've said all along that, if the folks are serious at River Ranch about keeping at least some access to that area, they need to be proactive. Elect a true, capable representative board that will actually do something about future use and access and not just think about next week. Designate trails. Demonstrate that the RRPOA is a good steward of the land. Send well spoken, educated and capable members on your behalf to meet with the Feds and State to discuss the issue of continued land use. Then, maybe (and I stress maybe) will the powers that be look at you in a more favorable light when it comes to head chopping time.

Fourth, your comments about getting to work and doing something are great. However, theres one problem with all outdoorsmen and women that ruins things for everyone and, thats apathy. Where was SAC when we were fighting the designated trail system in the Big Cypress? I don't remember seeing any of them at the ORVAC meetings other than a few individual guys that happened to be memebers. Where were you when they started in with the now ridiculous designated trail system in Ocala? Where were you when they closed off the Holeylands to ATV use? I'm not picking on you and your group, only demonstrating a point. You and your group are exactly the type of people we all need to be onvolved iwth. You're actually on the ball and doing something about things. But, there's no continuity between all of us. We never get involved or unify unless something is directly impacting us. Now that your group is faced with losing an area they dearly love (the Kissimmee), they're suddenly really involved and up in arms. And, that's great! However, you're not going to see all of the other ORV segments jump in behind you to help because, they never do. It's that way with all of us it seems. Unless it's in our sandbox, we just don't think its a big deal.

Right now, the Big Cypress Sportsman's Alliance is preparing to file suit against the National Park Service and the DOI for the Big Cypress Addition Lands fiasco. We're getting funded, have lots of legal firepower, and have several National and World wide organizations behind us. We'll be taking on the Sierra Club and many enviro nazi types in this battle. We'll be fighting to ensure that areas stay open for us to use. And by "us" I mean outdoorsmen and women. One of the key issues in this fight is the designation of "wilderness areas" within the addition lands. So, yeah, I know all about what a designated "wilderness area" means and how it impacts us.

If you really want to accomplish something, get all groups to come together. Give us all one common goal and fight. Rally everyone and present a unified front. You can bet the enviro idots are all backing each other with break in ranks. If you can do it, more power to you and I (along with many others) will back you 100% in every way possible.

I've been doing this for years and years. I am a board member and past officer/president of the Manatee and Sarasota Fish and Game Association. Been involved with ELMAC (environmental land management and acquisition committee) for Manatee County, helped secure access within Duette Preserve for hunters, spent enormous amounts of my own time and money fighting for access for everyone, only to have those I fight for show little to no appreciation. But, I will still keep it up so that my son and his children will have an opportunity to enjoy what I still do.

Your posts demonstrate that you know what you're talking about and, that's a good thing. Being educated on the issues at hand is the single most important step in this fight. I wish you the best in your fight and, you can bet that there are those of us who knew all about it and will be supporting you all the way. Your guess is as good as mine when it comes to getting people involved and on board to fight. Everyone wants to go play. nobody wants to work. Unfortunately, the ATV community seems to be the worst.

Some SAC members did travel to Addition meetings in Weston Fl to aid us in that ongoing battle. That is why I feel I owe it to them now to assist them as much as possible if only in providing information and ideas on comments. Personally I haven't owned or airboated much in 15 years. I was a hardcore airboater from 1972 until around 2000.
Major battles must be spearheaded for the most part by locals in the area. It is their responsibility mainly since it is their(as u say ) sandbox. As far as ORVAC meetings hardly anyone that hunts the Big C even goes to them much less outsiders. I consider ORVAC meetings a sandbox issue that knowledgable locals are most effective at driving. As far as the Holy Land goes I actively worked to assist ATV Extreme (Cary Hernandez), the HUMP folks and others to organize and fight for their rights. They lasted for a while and had success in causing a study promoted by Commissioner Diaz that forwarded a site for ATV's at the Jetport. That idea was withdrawn by the County under direct orders from Mayor Carlos Alvarez. End of that story for now? The Picayune strand tyranny was another ATV issue I waded in to with other hunters. Here is the strange part-as we hunters attended many meetings promoting allowing ATV's in Picayune there were hardly ever any real ATV folks at these meetings. Eventually they lost due to apathy and the sale of sovereignty to USACE and USFWS by the State for 300 million dollars of Farm Bill money.
As far as structures in RR being on their deeded site - that is a problem. Another strange fact in relation to that is that NPS in Big C has rigged some informal agreements where a landowner can swap their land for NPS land under their private structure. I doubt USFWS would be that accomodating considering their published refuge philosophy.
Unification of effort would be great if possible. I don't know if it since the government lobs more than 1 hand grenade at a time in our direction which must be dealt with. That alone forces us to divide our focus. I guess leaders have to be able to chew gum, walk, skip rope etc. to stay on top of things.
Leaders like yourself can do that after many years of experience. Other newbies cannot be expected to. It is our responsibility to lead. If we bring the horse to the trough and it won't drink we have done our best.
I know what the Alliance is involved in since I was part of its establishment 5 years ago and am still involved. We have worked tirelessly in promotion of more secondary trails (by ourselves for the most part) down in Big C. We have a major Turner River Trail trail proposal on the table now that is being reviewed. It will lead to more access of that I am sure. The same is being done in Corn Dance Unit by others. It isn't enough but it is all we can handle with the few people assisting us.
It is also correct that many do not understand or appreciate how much a few folks like us do to preserve what many enjoy. The way I get around that morale problem is that I am always thinking of kids more than the apathetic fools that don't understand the power they could exert if they would just try.
Now to you Mr Aboriginal and possibly renmus here. 2 smart motivated people like y'all can make a difference now. We've all spent a lot of time writing here.  I am requesting u 2 to go to the Sun Sentinel article from Jan 27 mentioned in a previous post here and comment in strong opposition to the Refuge bad idea. Exposure needs to be gotten that Florida folks don't want it. The Sun Sentinel is a great tool we can use. Please do it as soon as possible. doing so may get some other folks doing it when we start this snowball rolling.
Thanks in advance.

Thank you, gentlemen! Most folks are too busy working and raising families to go to all the necessary meetings. Short of some sort of "Save The Trails" donation fund campaign, is there anything we could do to hire a professional "lobbyist"? You would think that RRPOA and SEPOA, just to name two, would have an interest to either raise dues or sponsor BBQ fund-raisers, etc. to help hire a professional spokesperson(s)/group to help fight the fight at the meetings.

Please don't take this as ego-trippin. I believe after 14 or so years dealing with the feds that y'all can trust my advise. Admittedly one might question advise that doesn't cost a lot. There is no time to wait on a knoght on a white steed.

The actions I have suggested on SAC, Facebook's - Stop Federal Sprawl page and here need to be taken immediately by whoever can (U reading this) if this Headwaters is to be stopped in its tracks as needed to preserve the future.

Actions to take include going to Sun Sentinel's site and commenting strongly against the project as a response to the Jan 27 article written by Dpt of Interior Secretary Ken Salazar for the paper.

Then get to meetings - not to discuss the bad idea but to say No Way Jose, No Heck No or No Hell No - Period with no hint of compromise.

Everyone needs to fully understand the following fact - Not commenting will be understood by USFWS and their partners that U have no problems with there plan. GUARANTEED - I know this for a fact therough 14 years of experience.

U must oppose all of it (the concept) if you don't want it to haunt your life from now on. Otherwise u will be put in their support column with Audubon, Nature Conservancy etc. They are alolowed to make an assumption of No Problem from anyone who doesn't oppose or comment differently.

TAKE ACTION - TAKE ACTION   Do NOT sit back waiting on others - U WILL LOSE

just a thought, but what about getting Terry Thompson in on this?  seems like what the feds wanna do with RR is exactly what they did with Ocala, and maybe he would have some advice at the least as to what to do to help combat them.

Also, I don't know if it would even help, but I'm a friend of Daniel Webster's chief of staff and I'm sure I could bend his ear a bit on this if I asked.

Id@

I just listened to the tape of the recent meeting in Kissimmee. Not enough folks expressed firm opposition to the project. They got caught up in Q&A and possibly forgot to state opposition that would have become part of the USFWS legal record.
Folks should try to avoid that mistake at future meetings.
Never heard of Terry Thompson so don't know what to say. Mr Webster I believe is a State Rep or Senator and it is always good to keep them informed on issues in their district any way possible (be sure to state to him or his staff (your strong position on the project) with no hint of doubt in your voice. Keep in mind elected officials have many folks tugging at them.
Again I will state there isn't time available to fret over what to do.
Start spreading the word to strongly oppose or u will be involved with this nightmare for the next 25 years as u lose all along the way.
The road to victory is to kill this thing dead quickly as far as PUBLIC land goes..

Fyi, Dan Webster was a state rep for a while, he was recently elected to take Alan Grayson's spot in Washington.

How did you get a tape from the meeting? Any way we can download I or somehow listen?

Id@

Here is a utube link. Listen in the beginning to how USFWS tries to break folks up into small groups for them to gather Q&A and comments. By them doing this they prevent folks from knowing what was actually said by all attendees. This USFWS tactic was brilliantly defeated by attendees that listened to my advice at this meeting. Mr Danny Brantly from Kissimmee River Valley Sportsmen's Association (KRVSA) deserves a commendation for his taking POLITE control of this issue.LOHP 1 26 11 Meeting Question and Answer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE30QP5rDIo#)
Enjoy

Thanks for sharing the information.

Renmus,
Don't know if my pm to u got thru due to the lousy stinking verification required for a pm. Couldn't distinguish letters + no alternative letter set. Just more un-needed bureaucracy.

I'll get to the point. somewhere I received notice that the author of the audio tape couldn't make the Sebring meeting but would lend someone the taping equipment.

I have a responsible party that may do it but I need to contact the author.

Can u put us together since u said u know the person. I will in turn connect the author with the volunteer.

If they have already found a volunteer that is great to.

Gladesman

Here's some interesting and possibly encouraging information; http://www.arra-access.com/site/DocServer/01-28-2011_Wild_Lands_to_Salazar.pdf?docID=381 (http://www.arra-access.com/site/DocServer/01-28-2011_Wild_Lands_to_Salazar.pdf?docID=381)

Hmmmmm

Seems meaningless without action such as also supplying DOI with a bill to repeal the Wilderness Act.

Heartening, but we still have a fight on our hands. 

I have been quietly watching this thread since it started.  This morning, I received a call from the RRPOA regarding hearings on the Fed's plans for RR.  There are three scheduled next week; Okeechobee, Sebring and Vero Beach.  The Sebring meeting is this Friday, February 4th, at the Civic Center from 6:00 - 9:00 PM.  The next meeting is in Okeechobee on Wednesday, February 9th, at the high school from 6:00 - 9:00 PM.  The last meeting is in Vero Beach on Thursday, February 10th from 6:00 - 9:00 PM at the high school.  This is a concerted Federal and State effort to take these lands from us.  The plans, as Anoriginal suggested, are already clearly spelled out.  It is called the Bombing Range Ridge and they've already secured nearly 2,000 acres north of SR60 with clear cut plans to acquire the rest.  These lands will be transformed into 'limited access low-impact recreational areas.'  Unless you have a horse or like to walk, there will be nothing there for you.  Don't believe me?  Read this.

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/lands/FFAnnual/B_BombingRangeRidge.pdf (http://www.dep.state.fl.us/lands/FFAnnual/B_BombingRangeRidge.pdf)

Thanks for the effort digginfool. I read everything on the dep link that was there. This bombing range ridge looks to be totally a State managed project having nothing to do with the concerns expressed on this thread.
The concerns here are totally about any Federal Control being exerted and usurping State power.
We have many methods and people to deal with State entities but few to deal with the Feds hence the outrage at what the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) is directly involving thamselves in here in Fl.

Federal involvement brings NEPA comments from everyone in US tilting the balanced mg't. scale against us with thousands enviro comments  plus politically u have 500 elected officials to deal with instead of a few local ones.

Additionally this ridge acquisition looks to be about 30,000 acres shy of being complete.

My thought is that your info is sort of like apples and oranges compared to the Federal Sprawl issues folks understand and are concerned with here..

I hope this helps everyone.

Gladesman

Actually, it's exactly what this thread has been discussing in regards to RR and to Federal, as well as state, land grabs in the name of environmentalism.  If you knew anything about RR, you would instantly recognize the green highlighted land is RR.  The RRPOA called me to inform me of the FED's plan to take this land away from us.  Aside from general apathy amongst our community, self-indulgent jackasses like you attempting to slap down and patronize others certainly isn't going to garner the support you profess to be seeking.  If you had truly studied the information contained within that article, you would see that a portion of that land would be acquired (read by emminent domain) at fee simple while the balance would be acquired at less than fee simple.  The fee simple price of a parcel of land is that price listed in the county tax rolls.  If this land grab were to go through, it would be at the rate of approximately $0.03 on the dollar, at least in respect to what I paid for my deeded property.  I would like to remind you that the subject of this thread was about the Everglades Headwater Proposal, which aims to preserve the watershed above the Everglades.  This land, and many of the other proposed land acquisitions in process(http://www.dep.state.fl.us/lands/FFplan_county.htm (http://www.dep.state.fl.us/lands/FFplan_county.htm)), defines the title of this thread.  If it's got anything to do with preserving the Everglades, by extension, it is a Federal project, whether by name or otherwise.  After all, its not Everglades State Park in case you didn't notice.  Get your head out of your ass.

My personal interest in Headwaters is mainly preventing Federal jurisdiction over any more of Florida's so called public land. River Ranch experts like you and your lawyers are more qualified to deal with the technicalities of RR than anyone. I've been involved in 3 threads on this and could have gotten confused on who's priority is who's.
I do not agree that I am a self indulgent jack ass though. I am just a person that has sacrificed quite a bit over 14 years to stop the US Dpt of Interior of having its way anywhere near me or folks I care about. As I said before I got into this free for all to payback the help that folks up there and RR owners down here contributed for us in Big C by attending meetings and writing comments.
I apologize if you took my post as a slap down or patronizing since I would not intentionally do that to anyone but enviros and enviro-bureaucrats Federal or State who deserve that type treatment.
As per your advise I re-read the info at the link and still didn't see any mention of eminent domain regarding these acquisitions. Possibly you could lead me to it or maybe just skip it the main goal here should be as u said and I agree to unify everyone and get to the meetings.

'Nuff Said

As I pointed out in my response, when they state that they plan to acquire some of the land at fee simple and the balance at less than fee simple, that means they plan on paying the current owner the value of the land as stated in the county tax rolls.  You tell me how they intend to get somebody to sell their 1.25 acre of land they paid $2,000.00-3,000.00 for (and in some cases, several times that amount) for the $334.00 as listed at the Polk County Property Appraisers office (or any other PAO).  There's only one way it will happen and that is by emminent domain.   

Diggin and Gladesman have both provided some great information for all of us to digest and act upon. The key to this (at the state and federal level) is to get involved and do something about it. In the Big Cypress, getting involved with Lyle McCandless and his group to fight the feds is the single best thing you can do. With respect to the headwaters project, I really don't think a leader has emerged.

However, the waters are churning and that's a start. So, write, call, attend meetings, become educated, be well spoken, control emotion and always, ALWAYS address the subject from a mature, well spoken, well informed position. That is how we will maintain.

With respect to RR, unfortunately I think its a losing battle to some degree. They are eventually going to take that property. The RRPOA really has very little power to combat it since they don't own the majority of the land they claim within their POA. The individual property owners are going to have a tough time due to the very rules the RRPOA has enforced for so long. ie. - You can't build your camp on your property, etc. Without a true knowledge of where your land lies or, cultivation/development of your actual property, you'll likely be regulated to little more than the tax roll value.

I've been saying this for years and years on this board. Each time I was cussed, called all sorts of names and ridiculed. Well, now it's starting to heat up and, I am still here to help any way I can. You can save things in RR. Albeit, things will not be the same as they are now once the takeover comes down, there is hope that you will still be able to maintain your camp and use some of the property in some form.

The single biggest threat we all face is the designation of any of this area as "wilderness". It is the most restrictive designation (behind "refuge") the feds use. If an area is designated wilderness, your ability to utilize that area will be severely impacted and, the little use you will have isn't what most would call meaningful. 

Here is the deal.
This is going to change things up for many recreationalists.  Not just ATV riders. 
The monster will not just scare and eat some of the children, it will enventually consume them all.  I do not look at this as a RR only issue, SE issue only, ATV issue only.  I see it as a way the State, Feds and evironmentalists will once again dictate how our land will be used.  Frankly, I am tired of the intervention.  Time to say NO MORE.

At a property rights convention I was sent to years ago I was speaking to Larry Pratt the leader Gun Owners of America (the little NRA). He made me aware of a small book he was selling. I bought 20 of them for members of the group that sent me there. Tha name of the book was "Confrontational Politics".

This book illuminated the main problem we usually have. If u are going to win at this stuff u cannot ever disengage from the fight because it never will end. We who are "conservative" and resistant to change usually fight a skirmish and either win or lose and then quit being engaged since we think the issue has been resolved one way or the other.

BIG MISTAKE

The other side (enviros and enviro agencies in many of our problems) never quit the fight.

Somehow we need to figure out how to keep the momentum moving and our side engaged and willing to fight endlessley since there is NO RUNNING AWAY from this fight as is being illustrated in Michigan and everywhere else.

Maybe the only solution is revolution

We are in a declared war now with terrorists and government leaders are supporting Federal takeover of Sovereign lands of Florida. I think that is ceddition and / or treason and those involved in it would be risking a firing squad if America worked the way it was designed to. The caviat though is that the Starte is allowing this and nobody is bitching at State elected officials to fulfill their oath to uphold the US and Florida Constitutions.

I know that is a big mouthfull but it is the way I see all of this when viewing it from a high altitude. No, I ain't high. LOL

Gladesman

Sebring meeting looked to have at least 300 good people there. Everyone speaking in opposition spoke very well except in a couple instances speeches may have gotten a bit more meaner than required. I know they deserve it but only mention it because some there on both sides may have started to feel sorry for USFWS. That is hard to gage though(maybe impossible.) Just thought it was worth mentioning.
Upon speaking with a couple of USFWS staff after meeting I saw what to me seemed like some cracks forming in their confidence and resolve.
It would really be neat to get closer to the 1000 in attendance goal that some like me have.

Maybe that goal of 1000 attending can be met in Okeechobee on Wednesday, Feb the 9th. That would definetley widen the cracks I saw forming.

Please also try to remember if speaking to tell USFWS at some point that you OPPOSE the Headwaters concept as well as any Federal management or Oversight of management of any more land in Fl.

Quite a few folks forgot to do that which is understandable due the setting there which can be discumbulating to anyone. It ain't easy to have 300 people looking at u when u speak.

Thanks to the great work of one lady speaking near the end that problem was cured when she asked for a voice comment by the audience of Yes or NO to this bad idea. The NO vote was loud and clear.

That's it for now see y'all in Okeechobee next Wednesday.

Gladesman

The post below originated from the facebook page Stop Federal Sprawl and I have pasted it here from southersairboat.com

Please read it carefully and take the actions advised to secure all of our future freedoms on the lands we love.

The suggested comments there WILL be very difficult for USFWS to handle or explain to elected officials. USFWSD will think they are standing in a pile of fire ants when they receive them.

Thanks in Advance for taking the time.


                                  *************************************************

Focusing on the Bullseye - here is a strategy pasted here from OUR Facebook page Stop Federal Sprawl (All Americans Can Help note) expanding on what riverrat did earlier-

This Strategy is VERY IMPORTANT in order to KILL this thing Dead. We want to put serious comments into USFWS just like a 270 ballistic tip bullet at 2900 feet per second slamming into the neck bone of a 12 point buck.

************ ******************** *****************

This process accepts comments from everyone in USA. Ourselves, friends and relatives and fellow Americans in all States can HELP US but only if we ask for it.



Please take the time Ask Them for Help. They can comment at EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov Comment deadline is February 28, 2011

They will have to clearly state that they oppose the entire concept and plan and Why they oppose.



Hopefully the suggested Why's below will be just the torpedos neeeded to hit their powder magazines of deceipt to sink this USFWS enemy vessel into the abyss awaiting it below.



Feel free to use these suggestions whether rephrased to your words or copy and paste them in to your comments to USFWS at EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov Good Luck on the road to maintaining existing Freedoms



Suggested Why's to Oppose Below:

Mapping Data supplied by USFWS for review prior to comenting at Scoping meetings was totally inadequate. There was not nearly enough map detail to develop substantive comments prior to being forced to by short notice of meeting times and places. This lack of necessary data forced attendees to waste limited speaking time allotments on asking questions of USFWS staff. Detailed data should be made available as to exact land parcels targeted by the USFWS for purchase and easements (possibly via Google Earth on the internet) to facilitate detailed analysis of this project by the public whose comments are being solicited presently.


I/We do not want USFWS to create Headwaters Refuge that we know will be used as a dumping ground for rogue hybrid cougar/panthers from Southwest Florida. These hybrids are causing problems routinely down there and we do not want them in our neighberhoods in Central Florida or anywhere else. Do you think we are stupid or what? We are not!!



As stated by Charlie Pelizza w/USFWS at the Everglades Coordinating Council meeting in Ft lauderdale on Feb 3, 2011 this program has unilaterally chosen a Refuge establishment process that avoids the scrutiny of the US Congress that I/We consider to be upper limit of bureaucratic arrogance exposing USFWS's intent to circumvent the foundational institutions of the United States government. Just Say No to this Subversive Federal Sprawl !!


I support ONLY Florida managing lands in Florida. This Federal Sprawl is unconstitutional  without cooperation of State government. Even With State government cooperation it is at a minimum a violation of every Elected officials Oath of Offrice which includes agreeing to support the US and Florida Constitutions.


I/We do not support USFWS's intentions to ban wind mills wherever they can on properties encumbered by USFWS conservation easements (the conservation area) much less the proposed Headwaters (refuge) as stated by USFWS manager Charlie Pelizza at a meeting in Ft Lauderdale Fl. with Everglades Coordinating Council delegates on February 3, 2011. Exposure of the tip of that iceberg verifies that this project is not so environmentally friendly. Even our President Obama supports renewable energy projects and has budgeted vast somes of money money for that purpose and from the looks of it USFWS and Partners are out to thwart his efforts.


USFWS's  tactic chosen to avoid scrutiny of my US Congress mentioned by USFWS's Charlie Pelizza at the Everglades Coordinating Council's meeting in Ft Lauderdasle Fl. on Feb 3, 2011 exposes a level of arrogance by bureaucrats that is unbelievable to this Citizen.


USFWS's language (bureaucratic speak) contained in USFWS's project proposal at pg 21, section XIV is convoluted to the point of almost concealing USFWS's intent to recommend/designate Wilderness in un-specified areas of this project are unacceptable.
                                                                      This proposal will undoubtedly destructively restrict/ban most if not all important existing traditional activities (ORV, ATV, Airboat, Hiking, DispersedCamping, General Dispersed Access etc.) on any and all Refuge lands, the only ones to be acquired by fee simple purchase as explained by Mr Pelizza w/USFWS at scoping meetings about how USFWS cannot allow any activity that will negatively impact any of the purposes that a refuge is established to protect.This result is consistent throughout all lands managed by USFWS or any other Federal agency in America and elsewhere. USFWS's inescapable and desired inclusion of Panthers as a purpose for this refuge will without doubt cause destructive restrictions/ bans and they and their Partners fully understand this.


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Have put a detailed 2 part comment in on a Tampa Triibune, Highlands Today article written by Gary Pinnell about the Sebring meeting. He was the tall guy with a gotee and a camera around his neck. It would surely help if other folks commented in agreement with ,if nothing else, the panther problems portion of the comment.

Link to article and comments - http://www2.highlandstoday.com/content/2011/feb/06/protestors-oppose-everglades-headwaters-refuge/#comments (http://www2.highlandstoday.com/content/2011/feb/06/protestors-oppose-everglades-headwaters-refuge/#comments)
 
Other readers of the article (e.g. State Legislators, Congressmen and County Officials) will  take it more seriously when they see folks in agreement with the thoughts expressed.

A Must Read
Here is a link   http://www.fws.gov/policy/602fw1.html (http://www.fws.gov/policy/602fw1.html) to the USFWS Planning Overview for all Refuges including the Headwaters monster.

This document is long but at least item 1.5 H below which promises Wilderness style management to preserve Wilderness characteristics just like Big C and the Addition.

Headwaters must die in its infancy.

Gladesman

"To help ensure consistent Systemwide consideration of the six priority public uses--hunting, fishing, wildlife observation and photography, and environmental education and interpretation--established by the Refuge Administration Act and to ensure that these uses receive enhanced consideration over general public uses in the Refuge System."
That says it all, folks!

Funny, the word that pops out to me the most is CONSIDERATION.  I can consider what pair of pants to wear, but that does not guarantee I am going to wear pants.  (OK...I am not going to be nekkid, but you know where I am going with the thought I hope.)

My pg 3 post at 6:57:48 has been revised to remove some overheated rhetoric as recommended by ctry141 at Southernairboat.

Some of would wind up being counterproductive.

Double chek suggestions b4 using.

Gladesman

http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/pdf/02032011.pdf (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/pdf/02032011.pdf)
Question:  Are "they" listening? 
Answer:  Only to what "they" want to hear.

I looked at that link. They did the exact same thing in the Big Cypress with the implementation of the designated trail system and with the addition lands fiasco. They acted like they were listening. Took in comments, answered questions, took their time...and then did exactly what they wanted to without any concern for the comments.

They are a great bunch of smoke blowers.  I think when they pass gas it comes out as smoke rings.  I was at the Okeechobee meeting tonight and told the comment "gatherers" that I felt a great disservice was being done by lumping the comments together.  I acknowledged that reading "against proposal because of X" 120 tmes is tedious, but that only crediting it as one opposition was not right.  I suggested that they remark that X number of responses were made for this reason.  

A Civil Liberties lawyer was at the meeting.  His wife is hearing disabled.  There was no resources available to assist her to hear the proceedings.  If someone was wheelchair bound it was too bad for them as the building was accessed by stairs only.  Despite the fact that the meetings have grown in attendance every time, the building they reserved only seated 458. (I would guess about 750 tried to attend.) They said they would only proceed if the overflow would leave for over an hour and a half and return when they rushed the first group through.  Due process?  Not hardly.  I found the entire meeting very poorly stuctured and handled.  Informtaion is vague and ever changing.  They had a woman who explained the real estate portion.  She actually turned her back on the attendees and very poorly read from the screen since they obviously feel that we are too stupid to be able to read ourselves.  I watch our government inaction this evening.  Inaction is intentional.  I do not mean IN ACTION.  

As I read this thread, one thing keeps popping into my head...Where is the RRPOA? I mean, they jump up and down about rules, charging people fees, being organized, etc. etc. etc. Yet, why are they not right up front in this fight?

They should be the loudest opposition to this plan and, should have been WAY more involved and WAY more vocal a long, long time ago. It's not like the folks at RR didn't know about this years ago. Heck, I've been telling people on this website about it for over two years.

What have they done? How are they organized? What's their plan? What are their resources? If they don't have it together by now, it's probably too late.

If I were a RR member, I'd be pretty upset.

As I have admitted after being jumped here, I don't know much about River Ranch although learning rapidly.
On this issue they must have a plan because they are front and center at all of these meetings with an attorney.
From the looks of it they are as engaged as any group to get rid of the Headwaters.
They are doing there best which is all that any of us can do.

The most important thing now is to maintain the head of steam we have built up and everyone go to Vero tonight.

I am very, very gald to hear the RRPOA is involved and on the ball with this. That is awesome news.

And, Renmus has been actively inviting/inspiring all RRPOA members to come for a discussion of this with a RRPOA Attorney, Saturday @ noon during RRPOA's General Assembly @ the RR Pavilion.

Actually, the audios of the Public Scoping meetings are posted on the River Ranch website.  You can find that here:  http://rrpoa.net/news/ (http://rrpoa.net/news/)
And the site was actually developed and designed by Mr Bones himself!

 :ThumbsUp.gif

overuse of the word ACTUALLY.  sorry.  ???

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/feb/10/supporters-opponents-turn-out-for-discussion-in/ (http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/feb/10/supporters-opponents-turn-out-for-discussion-in/)

The news article states, "Comments on the proposal for the refuge will be accepted by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service through the end of February. A draft document that includes the actual boundaries for the new refuge will be released in June. A final plan would be ready by September, and if approved, the Fish & Wildlife Service could begin the process of buying land and easements shortly after."

It is a shame that the news cannot seem to get all the information out.  Parts and pieces and not all correctly reported.  See this link http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/fight-to-preserve-wildlife-around-lake-okeechobee (http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/fight-to-preserve-wildlife-around-lake-okeechobee) to hear that the Vero Beach Meeting was the first of many meetings.  It is the LAST of the public scoping meetings.  The public comments will be accepted until the end of this month.  We have no input after that until they decide what they want. 

Last night it was repeated over and over that they were not interested in RR or Holopaw.  Funny thing, the Land Acquisition man from a LARGE coneservancy group told us THEY wanted the land.  That group is nature's real estate agent and sells land to the government.  So, the government looks good not taking from unwilling sellers while the other group works behind the scene doing the dirty work.

Am I going to stop writing Congress and figure we "won"?  Oh heck no.  I owe it to our fellow recreationalists, the airboaters etc, to keep fighting this craziness.  Besides, these people have proven that they cannot be trusted.

RRPOA General Assembly is noon tomorrow, folks.

Report on Vero Meeting with comments in italics:

Vero Report and comments in italics.

Feds had new tricks supported by quite a few heavy hitter enviro leaders.

Audubon's Charles Lee from their Tallahassee office was ditching FDOT for having a good road building program to provide us an efficient transportation system. Audubon considers good roads a bad thing. Heck, Audubon/Lee tried to orchestrate a meeting at his Tall. office years ago between Dpt of Interior, FDOT, and Audubon so as to change Tamiami Trail thru Big Cypress etc. into an NPS park toll road. We caught him by getting ahold of written proof and all of a sudden he was standing all alone with egg all over his sorry face. I wish we had snagged a few emails about Headwaters a few years ago and snuffed it then.
Should this bad thing go ahead Headwaters will be used as a Federal tool to fight road improvements and FORCE many panther underpasses (currently $5,000,000 each) w/miles of even foot access preventing 10 foot fences w/barbed wire for the people. We Florida taxpayers will also foot those bills plus be driving on crappier roads as gifts from the Headwaters.
 
Other enviros cried as usual about water quality and development fears (in our destroyed economy?) etc. No big surprises there.

                                                                   
The Hunting Bait
 FWC's  also spoke in strong support for the Headwaters announcing FWC's intent to work to get hunting in and what a loss it would be not to get this place for hunters along with more ?development fears? (during our 20 year economic comeback LOL). My concern that the crumb of hunting is not worth the Federal BS that would go along with it (pure misery).
In my opinion FWC and are  now trying to lure hunters in to supporting this so the Feds can come in and DO what they want. IF Headwaters goes ahead FWC will blame anything we don't like on the Feds. Just another dog and pony show like down in Big Cypress. They never seem to be able to beat the Feds for some reason - hmmmmm - maybe they don't really want to. Don't Let USFWS or their Partners Hook You like a stupid fish.

Elizabeth Fleming from Defenders of Wildlife a tough lady I know a bit was unusually meek at this meeting but I think she slipped, as she gave me hope with her speech that we are well on the way to killing this if we stick to it. As I recall she focused on asking folks to just work together on Headwaters some more rather than killing it acknowledging to me that she believed we could.. Knowing Elizabeth as I do I was stunned to hear her convey her belief that we can kill this thing. From the way she spoke and knowing how tenacious an advisary she can be I took special note of her words and demeanor. I will double chek her speech on the tapes.
   
Divide and Conquer
 I do have eternal faith that River Ranch folks won't fall for the false gift offered by the USFWS partners as comments in Vero by their suggestions that USFWS cut River Ranch out of the forthcoming Headwaters Land Protection Plan (LPP). River Ranch folks know better than that. Anywhere these Feds are they are a threat forever. If not now they will TAKE later. If they don't have the right rule now they will create it later (5, 10, 30 years). They actually think folks are dumb enough to believe that lie backed up by their lying and swear to it partners. This level of arrogance is what will get this thing dead sooner rather than later.

I was very impressed with Colonel Weirer's (forgive my spelling Colonel) speech. He spoke of a Nation of the people, by the people and for the people and said it directly to Charlie Pelizza.
I was lucky to have a discussion with him before the meeting. He agreed with me that this Headwaters is slap in the face to the contributions and sacrifices of our Nations military past and present. I don't know what a black beret means but he was wearing one. We are all lucky to have a gentleman such as he on board here.

Our sides speakers were real good as usual along with some that went a bit too far but sometimes the anger is just impossible to hold in and has to come out. So be it.

Those are the high points recalled w/comments in italics.

Once the Federal Government has control over the land, all bets are off & promises mean nothing. We own property at the Kissimmee Prairie (Viking) and do not want to see this any where around OUR property. Has anyone riden at Kroom? It's the only state park that allows 4 wheelers. It's also a waste land. We ride our 4 wheeler & Gator at the prairie with our Great Dane (who absolutely LIVES for the weekend-like us) and, for the most part, the other riders are pretty respectful of the land. Of course there will always be the jerks who do donuts in the drainage ditches & roads & leave their trash around. >:( . We attended the meeting in Okeechobee, which was VERY well attended, mostly by people who feel the same way we do: hunters, airboaters, off-road riders, half-tracker clubs, etc. If this happens in our neck of the woods, it will have to be a sneak attack - which I wouldn't put past the feds at all. There is plenty of wildlife still around & we are surrounded by a state park & ranches. If they have extra money in the coffers - try spending it to reduce some of our CURRENT deficit!

Funny how this proposal comes at a time when they can legally "steal" the land, as the "appraised fair market value" of property is at an all-time low. We have made many, expensive impovements to our property - fence, well, outhouse, cabin, etc. How much would they pay for those - there isn't enough money to pay what value WE place upon it!

Might be time to BOYCOTT BASS PRO   since this link exposes Bass Pro supporting some of those behind the promotion of Headwater.

We all know that the Nature Conservancy mentioned in the 1st paragraph of this sites page has been a sneaky behind the scenes threat to us since day one.

http://bet.rmi.org/our-work/case-studies/commercial/bass-pro-retail-shops.html (http://bet.rmi.org/our-work/case-studies/commercial/bass-pro-retail-shops.html)

I know, I Love the Store but it is just stupid to help a friend of those hurting our future access to our heritage.

Gladesman

Besides, they also threaten us by selling Artic Cat ATVs! Get your stuff from Gander Mountain, Cabela's and other places.

8)

http://myfwc.com/docs/RecreationActivities/hunt_WMAs_map-statewide.pdf (http://myfwc.com/docs/RecreationActivities/hunt_WMAs_map-statewide.pdf)

Here is a link http://www.fws.gov/southeast/planning/P (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/planning/P) ... %20LPP.pdf to a plan very similar to what the Headwaters plan coming out in a few months will look like.

It is for St Marks Wildlife Refuge expansion in N Fla.

Studying this plan will prepare us all for what is coming. Some details will change but my bet is that most of the restrictive language will be as strong or stronger.

I have seen in this plan where Air Propelled boats are prohibited.

This plan also does allude to the possibility of conservation easement lands being part of a refuge. Don't exactly understand how that works yet. They also mention that landowners with conservation easements are not allowed to modify their lands topography. That might be a problem for folks considering easements. In the long run though it is up to them.

Gladesman

Thanks glades, you're correct residential area easements mean it's the landowner's responsibility to maintain the land, yet, can't build on it, modify it in anyway, can't fence it in or obstruct passage and can't leave campers or vehicles parked on it, etc.. So, why should we dream that agricultural or wildlife refuge easements would be any different?

How and why will a use be declared appropriate or not appropriate for Headwaters. The same way as any other refuge and that is done by USFWS and State Wildlife agencies (FWC) according to the USFWS planning document [603FW 1] at the link below. The document also mentions that the State Wildlife agency has a person on the USFWS planning team making them FWC seriously accountable to us for whatever happens beyond killing this bad idea. Our State agency already knows how we feel and apparently could care less.

Appropriate Refuge Uses Policy
603 FW 1 Appropriate Uses: http://www.fws.gov/policy/603fw1.html (http://www.fws.gov/policy/603fw1.html)

Studying this will help see into the future but always remember animals, fish and plants first.

Gladesman

Here's what the document says about easements; "we usually will not apply this policy to proposed public uses of wetland or grassland easement areas of the Refuge System. The rights we have acquired on these areas generally do not extend to control over such public uses except where those uses would conflict with the conditions of the easement." And, they also say, "As defined by the National Wildlife Refuge System Improvement Act of 1997 (Improvement Act), the six wildlife-dependent recreational uses (hunting, fishing, wildlife observation and photography, and environmental education and interpretation) are determined to be appropriate. However, the refuge manager must still determine if these uses are compatible". No mention of airboats or OHVs, boys and girls! Furthermore, the document also states, in Prohibited Uses section 50CFR 27, " Travel in or use of any motorized or other vehicles, including those used on air, water, ice, snow, is prohibited on national wildlife refuges except on designated routes of travel, as indicated by the appropriate traffic control signs or signals and in designated areas posted or delineated on maps by the refuge manager and subject to the following requirements and limitations:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=a9c331ccc36d0c721786bce9691fb7ab&rgn=div8&view=text&node=50:6.0.1.2.10.3.1.1&idno=50it (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=a9c331ccc36d0c721786bce9691fb7ab&rgn=div8&view=text&node=50:6.0.1.2.10.3.1.1&idno=50it)

Here is a report on a meeting had with a Congressmen's chief of staff the other day.

Enjoy and try to take the staff chief's advice.

NWR Report regarding Meeting with Congressional Staff Chief about USFWS’s Everglades Headwaters Refuge/Conservation Area proposal.

Meeting Date: February 15, 2011

Upon entering the office a tad bit late due to unforeseen circumstances I saw and was impressed that the Chief of staff had already printed out the Headwaters Project Proposal and had it out for us to review together. We viewed the pages together as I explained the details of what has taken others much time to learn at meetings due to lack of clarity and detail within information made available to the general public.
I made attempts to focus on issues impacting as broad a portion of an elected officials constituets as possible plus explained the unavoidable losses to traditional and customary hunting and general access (airboats, buggies, ATV’s etc) to any refuge lands due to DOI/USFWS management mandates, laws and Presidential executive orders that USFWS has no options but to follow precisely.

He was also made aware that Refuge Lands would be lands purchased “Fee Simple” and “Conservation Areas” (CA) would be comprised lands retained in private ownership and encumbered with conservation easements restricting development rights inclusive of windmills as stated by USFWS’s Charlie Pelizza at an informal meeting on Feb 3, 2011 with Everglades Coordinating Council delegates. I also explained that there is still some confusion as to whether CA land could be a part of the Refuge specified.

The issue of Congressional debate being intentionally avoided by the process USFWS has chosen for Headwaters was included also as one of our discussion topics. Additionally the Vero comment by Mr Pelizza to one speaker that the “only way Congress can affect the Headwaters project is through the budget appropriations they have involvement in. This staff person went on to explain to me that his congressman can be involved in Federal appropriations and that 40 of 60 members on their appropriations committee are of a conservative (Republican) frame of mind currently. This will help and should give everyone confidence we can stop this as long as we keep up our effort and participation and stand proudly beside every elected official (and not jumping at the first good sounding compromise bone thrown out) that assists to attain our goal of No Headwaters project at all.

Simply put No Headwaters = No Compromise = No Eternal Threat

The Congressional staff chief also provided me and everyone invaluable information as to how we all can engage other Congressmen and Women who are sympathetic to our cause in this issue.

To find out who is your US Congressman simply call any of them, tell them your zip code and they will direct you to your Congressperson.

One person can attempt the following process but it may work better with more folks involved.

1st step Have 5 or 6 people who live in Congressman’s district write or call them and explain you are opposed and a few substantive/important reasons why you must oppose. One of the group needs to be well versed in the Headwaters and understand it well enough to explain at a future point to the Congressman or a person on his staff during a meeting.

2nd step Request a sit down meeting. I was able to set up mine at 11:30 am and tied it into continuing it through lunch. That got about 2 hours of time to talk. The one of the group most well versed in the Headwaters and understands it well enough to explain at a future point to the Congressman or a person on his staff should be the one to engage in this meeting. That way they can make sure to cover all the points thoroughly. More than one person may be distracting to the intense focus required to transmit all the info necessary in a short time and absorb any advice given to assist in the endeavor. Both sides of the issue (pro and con) should be explained. I did the pro side in about 15-45 seconds Pro side equaled “the Headwaters will save all plants and animals and supposedly water quality and volume of it with an unspecified promise of hunting.” Then it was on to the down side for our types and others for about an hour.

3rd Very Very Important, Congresspersons or their staff definitely WILL ask you “What do you want the Congressman to do for you”. You must be prepared ahead of time with an answer. In my case I answered by explaining that initially I would appreciate him to provide comments to USFWS on the Headwaters somewhat as I have suggested to others previously and short of outright opposition they should express serious concerns for what is happening. I qualified the request as being an initial request so as to keep the door open for other requests later as I understand more. Oh, I also strongly urged that the Congressperson do all possible to prevent funding of the Land and Water Conservation Fund (LWCF) to prevent paying for this and USFWS’s attempt to avoid Congress by using an administrative establishment process.. I learned later today that Congress can also stipulate bans on spending money for certain line items in a budget. I will also include a request to do that in a paper I have been requested for the Congressman’s review and update on Headwaters.Everyone doing all that they possibly can will get this job done OUR WAY.

Gladesman

Sometimes I find myself doing this:  :banghead.gif
Conversation with my 85 yr old mother today while watching the news: 
ME:  "Well Mom, the government cannot supply enough funding for DFS to really check on children that are at risk, they are spending hundreds of millions to build wildlife refuges to save some scrub jays and obscure flora."
MOM:  "People need places like that to go relax and get away from stress you know."
ME: "Mom?  When was the last time, if ever, that you went to a Wildlife Refuge?  Yeah, about a zillion years ago you and Dad dragged us to Yellowstone Park.  Otherwise you hardly even walk in your own yard!  The place they want to build this refuge is where I go to RELAX and get away from stress."   
Jeeze.  The people who know nothing and think in rainbow shades are the ones they are depending on to push this through. 

And it will work if we don't keep shining the light on all the cockroaches of which there are many..

FYI

Rich Andrews   Post subject: Bass pro shops and the new proposed NWRPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:06 pm 
 
 
Site Supporter - IV
 

Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:20 pm
Posts: 4770  Well, after sending emails back and forth(documented)..having 3 conversations via phone(documented),and no official response from BPS as to their support or non support of the new NWR, I am obligated to give the results of the BPS and the new NWR / TNC association.

Bass Pro Shops has teamed up with,and given lots of money to the Nature Conservency,otherwise known as TNC.The Nature Conservancy in Missouri received $100,000 from Bass Pro Shops January 27th 2011. These same people are major supporters of the new proposed NWR(headwaters). Weather or not BPS understands whom they are drinking cool aid with, I don't care. I explained perfectly clear to them how near,and dear it was to our hearts how the sportsmen of Florida felt about this newly proposed NWR.


IMO, if they support these types of groups,and don't want to get back to us as to who,what,where,when,why..........then I'll make my own assumption.

_________________
I'll have my Manatee burger medium please...just say NObama

14x8 deckover FELBER 397ci.. HP ???..just stay back!!

LOHA is AHOL backwards
 
 

This link http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?State=FL (http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?State=FL) will get u to your Florida's 2 US Senators ph# and email addresses.

It don't get no easier than this.

Let's ring their phones off the wall.

Like one speaker said at 1 of the meetings - possibly anyone at home all day could call them over and over to make their lives as miserable as USFWS and their Partners are trying to make ours.

The more logs on this fire the better.

Gladesman

gladesman   Post subject: Re: Feds Going for Kissimmee Valley+Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:19 pm 
 
 
Site Supporter - II
 

Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:08 pm
Posts: 252  WE CAN WIN THIS.Folks in Alabama are fighting just as big a USFWS land grab and have backed it up 6 months.

See for yourself here http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/2 (http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/2) ... /101029518

Hoping the link works.

Gladesman

 
 

http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/AMERICAS-GREAT-OUTDOORS-Salazar-Helps-Break-Ground-on-Major-Everglades-Restoration-Project.cfm (http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/AMERICAS-GREAT-OUTDOORS-Salazar-Helps-Break-Ground-on-Major-Everglades-Restoration-Project.cfm)

If Alabamans with the help of their Senator can kick USFWS and their Cahaba River huge Refuge expansion and Conservation Area out of Alabama we can do the same favor for the Headwaters monster here in Florida

All of the Senators thoughts below fit the Headwaters perfectly.

October 25 2010
Shelby Statement on Expansion of Cahaba River National Wildlife Refuge
U.S. Senator Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) today applauded the decision by the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) to reevaluate the proposed 279,000-acre expansion of the Cahaba River National Wildlife Refuge.

“I have consistently made clear to the FWS that the proposed acquisition is an egregious and unjustified overreach by the federal government that is unacceptable,” said Shelby. “Today’s announcement indicates that the FWS now agrees that the scope and enormity of the proposed acquisition is not only disproportionate, but also lacking any legitimate justification.”The FWS proposed a massive expansion of the Cahaba River National Wildlife Refuge.  The service currently is authorized to buy land in a 7,600-acre area in Bibb County and owns 3,600 acres.  The proposal would expand the acquisition area by 106,415 acres.  On an additional 173,380 acres, the service would be able to buy development rights to create conservation easements along the Cahaba River.  

On September 28, Senator Shelby met with Steve Miller, manager of the Cahaba River National Wildlife Refuge, and Department of the Interior officials regarding the proposed expansion of the wildlife refuge.  Senator Shelby reiterated his concerns that the FWS failed to properly solicit input from landowners and stakeholders, and has neglected to consider the effects the expansion may have on impacted parties and the local economy.

According to the Alabama Forest Owners’ Association, expansive land acquisition would cost $22.8 million in payroll contributions annually, $778,958 in state tax contributions each year, and 702 jobs.  Additionally, the federal government would be required to pay the affected counties in perpetuity for the acquired properties.  

 



 

hey gladesman, what congressman's chief did you speak to? was it Webster? if so, I hope Pepper was hospitable to you, I've known her since she was just barely in high school.

So, in regards to getting a US congressman's attention, I've just learned that Daniel Webster is holding two public meetings this coming week;

Tuesday, February 22nd, 5:30 – 6:30 p.m., at the Winter Garden City Hall, First Floor 300 West Plant Street (Map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=300+West+Plant+Street,+Winter+Garden,+FL&aq=0&sll=28.564331,-81.58961&sspn=0.008123,0.018904&g=300+West+Plant+Street,+Winter+Garden,+FL&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=300+W+Plant+St,+Winter+Garden,+Orange,+Florida+34787&ll=28.564321,-81.589622&spn=0.008123,0.018904&z=16
 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=300+West+Plant+Street,+Winter+Garden,+FL&aq=0&sll=28.564331,-81.58961&sspn=0.008123,0.018904&g=300+West+Plant+Street,+Winter+Garden,+FL&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=300+W+Plant+St,+Winter+Garden,+Orange,+Florida+34787&ll=28.564321,-81.589622&spn=0.008123,0.018904&z=16)
and,

Thursday, February 24th, 11:30 - 12:30 p.m. in the Celebration Town Hall, 851 Celebration Ave. (Map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=851+Celebration+Avenue,+Celebration,+FL&aq=1&sll=28.564321,-81.589622&sspn=0.008123,0.018904&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=851+Celebration+Ave,+Celebration,+Osceola,+Florida+34747&z=16 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=851+Celebration+Avenue,+Celebration,+FL&aq=1&sll=28.564321,-81.589622&sspn=0.008123,0.018904&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=851+Celebration+Ave,+Celebration,+Osceola,+Florida+34747&z=16)

I wish I had the time between work and school to make it, but I might be able to finagle going on Thursday,,,,other than just walking in and yelling out "I hate federal intrusion on my fun!" I'm not really sure what to say to get his attention and maybe help with this, any helpful hints?

Id@

PLEASE HELP YOUR LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS TO UNDERSTAND HEADWATERS

PASS THE REPORT AND REQUEST BELOW ON TO COUNTY, STATE AND D.C. OFFICIALS

THEY NEED TO SEE THE REALITY OF HEADWATERS SHOWN BELOW ALONG SIDE THE SUGAR COATED VERSION THEY ARE GETTING FROM the USFWS and their STATE and ENVIRONMENTAL PARTNERS.

****************** ************ ****************

NWR* Citizen’s Report, Perspective and Cahaba River Refuge Expansion Comparison regarding the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), Everglades Headwaters Refuge and Conservation Area Proposal with a Request for Actions by Elected Officials.

Citizens Report
USFWS is suggesting that in order to save many species of flora and fauna, the ranching culture of Central Florida and water quality as it flows South that they intend to initially acquire 50,000 acres of Florida for a “Refuge” giving them full management authority over those lands purchased fee simple. Additionally USFWS has a goal of controlling the future development rights on 100,000 acres of private lands through conservation easements so as to create what they refer to as a “conservation area. According to USFWS’s Mr. Charlie Pelizza during the Everglades Coordinating Council (ECC) meeting on February 3, 2011 not only residential and commercial housing construction but also windmills would also be types of development prohibited by conservation easements entered into by landowners. Possibly other prohibitions could be included that were not mentioned at the ECC meeting. USFWS also claims that eminent domain will not be used and will only utilize willing sellers of land or development rights. The initial cost estimate of this 1st phase of USFWS’s and their Partner’s venture is a whopping $700,000,000 as per USFWS. This is only the 1st phase of a multi phase vision encompassing lands from S of Orlando to E of Naples Florida.

The USFWS’s project proposal document also includes convoluted language at pg 21, section XIV that when analyzed exposes a promise of Federal Wilderness review and recommendation to be applied to vast areas (5,000 acres minimum as per Wilderness Act) of any Everglades Headwaters Refuge established.

Citizens Perspective
The USFWS’s plans for Central Florida are entirely unacceptable to many of those who will be directly or indirectly impacted by them. Meetings held by USFWS with short notice during weekdays were heavily attended (e.g. Kissimmee 200+, Sebring 300, Okeechobee 700, Vero Beach 400+) with 90-95% of attendees very opposed to the concept with no trust or faith in the USFWS due to folks knowledge of Federal regulatory history in Florida and Nationwide.

Mr. Pelliza’s additional admission at the Feb 3, 2011 ECC meeting that the USFWS chose a method of establishing the Headwaters that avoided Congressional legislation and debate was very disturbing to the group of delegates gathered that night. Strategically USFWS’s decision makes perfect sense though since it isn’t conceivable that Congress would allow such an expensive and unnecessary action to take place during this particular period of the United States economic history and USFWS knows it.

Extreme concerns regarding continuation of customary traditional and recreational activities such as motorized land and water access by diverse customary and traditional means (e.g. ATV’s, ORV’s, Airboats,Mud Boats, Motorboats etc. etc.) are well founded based upon the USFWS’s land management history in Florida or Nationally. In fact Federal agencies have been known to go so far as to mitigate their own construction activities with regulatory restrictions upon recreational land access to compensate their own environmental impacts (e.g. Big Cypress National Preserve ORV Plan of 2000 pgs 129-132).

Serious local and regional negative economic impacts will very conceivably occur due to folks from as far South as Miami Dade and many other counties discontinuing customary and traditional visitation to the Headwaters area after it is established due to unavoidable prohibitions of activities they go to the area to enjoy. The economic impacts would involve cessation of purchases of items associated with multi day excursions to the area and even maintenance and parts purchases necessary for upkeep of specialized motor vehicles utilized to access remote areas that lack roads.

If this Headwaters vision is allowed to continue to fruition USFWS and their Partners will be forced to cause unending delays escalating costs of and also block necessary highway construction and/or enhancements as well as green energy projects due to endangered Species Act mandates since Panthers and other such species are specified as purposes for this USFWS project. Simply put, massive potential job creation will be thwarted or prevented by Headwaters causing incalculable economic loss to Florida and its citizens.
Why would prohibitions be unavoidable one might ask? These predicted prohibitions would be unavoidable due to Federal laws, executive orders, international treaties etc. that limit management flexibility of every Federal agency and land manager including USFWS prior to any detailed plan. These reasons for opposing the Headwaters are not figments of the imagination or misconceptions they are FACTS of life when under Federal rule.

In fact USFWS has NO choice but manage all refuges to preserve Wilderness characteristics with or without any formal Wilderness review or recommendation assured in Headwaters according to USFWS’s “ Refuge planning overview” guidance document at item 1.5 H. http://www.fws.gov/policy/602fw1.html (http://www.fws.gov/policy/602fw1.html)

There is little if any doubt as to the intent of USFWS and their Partners (e.g. FEDP, FDOACS, FFWCC, The Nature Conservancy, Audubon of Florida etc.) since they are well aware of the oh so subtle but intended consequences mentioned here.

Many Floridians are already experienced with living under Federal rules that do not work any better for wildlife than for people. A prime recent example of this is Federal land managers losing track of an entire deer herd in the Stairsteps Unit of Big Cypress National Preserve after implementation of their ORV plan of 2000 even as routinely reviewed data indicated a problem existed for 5 years. This is what happens when extreme access restrictions allow an agency and do nothing (goof off) while under the impression that eliminating activities is a cure all. It might have worked in BCNP except that the draconian restrictions upon airboat access activities in the Stairsteps Unit there were never the real problem.

Cahaba River Refuge Expansion Comparison
Responding to an information request USFWS supplied a link to the Cahaba Refuge expansion plan. This Refuge is located in Central Alabama. Many issues there are identical to the Headwaters experience in Florida. Local residents were kept in the dark during years of pre planning by USFWS and their Partners as is the case in Florida. All of a sudden locals were given very short notice of meetings about the subject. USFWS according to news articles had never even directly contacted landowners within the massive Federal, targeted acquisition area.

A USFWS meeting in the tiny town of Brent, Alabama was heavily attended (500) and USFWS met with fierce opposition equal to the opposition they met in Florida. Elected officials especially Alabama’s US Senator Shelby also staunchly opposed that project as well as the USFWS methods employed.
As a result of this fierce opposition the USFWS announced via press release in October 2010 that they had decided to delay continuing the Cahaba Refuge expansion process for 6 months.

Alabama’s US Senator Shelby’s words below: October 25 2010
Shelby Statement on Expansion of Cahaba River National Wildlife Refuge
U.S. Senator Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) today applauded the decision by the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) to reevaluate the proposed 279,000-acre expansion of the Cahaba River National Wildlife Refuge.

“I have consistently made clear to the FWS that the proposed acquisition is an egregious and unjustified overreach by the federal government that is unacceptable,” said Shelby. “Today’s announcement indicates that the FWS now agrees that the scope and enormity of the proposed acquisition is not only disproportionate, but also lacking any legitimate justification.”

Actions requested of Elected Officials:

1 Please comment on your official letterhead to USFWS at EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov your support for the USFWS “NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE” (NO Thank YOU), opposition and/or concerns. (Potential concerns/ reasons for opposition and Positive Aspects of No Action Alternative attached)

2 Please take all action possible to see to it that funds are not made available for USFWS to proceed with planning or acquisition for Everglades Headwaters Refuge and Conservation Area.

3 Please amend any appropriations bill with a line item prohibition so that USFWS is prevented from spending any of their funding, grants or donations upon this Everglades Headwaters Refuge and Conservation Area in any manner

Everyone please COMMENT IN WRITING SO WE AND OUR CHILDREN CAN HAVE A BETTER LIFE

Below are some positive oriented reasons for Elected folks and others (US) support the NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE

****************                        **************                         ****************

For those who are serious and comment - Here are some Positive reasons to justify elected officials or anyone including USFWS to support NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE.

NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE = the only choice for Floridians.

************** ******************* **************

POSITIVE ASPECTS
OF
United States Fish and Wildlife Service
NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE
For
Everglades Headwaters Refuge and Conservation Area Proposal

1 Taxpayers will save the $700,000,000 (3/4 Billion dollar) down payment for this 1st phase of the unnecessary and unjustified USFWS vision called Everglades Headwaters Refuge and Conservation Area (EHRCA).

2 The U.S. Congress and voters will not be disenfranchised by USFWS’s decision to choose this particular process to avoid legislative debate as per USFWS’s Mr. Charlie Pelizza at the Everglades Coordinating Council meeting in Ft. Lauderdale Florida on February 3, 2011.

3 State sovereignty over hundreds of thousands of acres of Florida’s landscape will be maintained rather than relinquished to facilitate USFWS’s and their Partners vision.

4 Private property owners will no longer be threatened by known future Federal actions that will devalue and make their properties less useful for the purposes they acquired them for.

5 Counties within this project will maintain their full tax base.

6 Job creation will be greatly enhanced by USFWS and their Partners losing the ability to use EHRCA as a tool to block and escalate costs of necessary highway construction or enhancements and green energy production (wind, solar etc.)

7 Florida’s elected officials Oaths of Office will be fulfilled.

8 USFWS’s will lose the ability to fulfill their promise of Wilderness review and recommendation included in convoluted language at pg 21, section XIV of their project proposal document.

9 Continuation of Customary and traditional uses of and means of accessing remote areas of the region by visitors and residents will be assured.

10 Maintaining local rural cultures will be assured by economic conditions and cessation of speculative land purchases leading to over development feared by USFWS and their Partners.

I recived this from Evan Hirsche, President
National Wildlife Refuge Association
1250 Connecticut Ave., NW
Suite 600
Washington, DC 20036


Phone: 202-292-2421
Fax: 202-292-2435
email: ehirsche@refugeassociation.org
web: www.refugeassociation.org (http://www.refugeassociation.org)
Twitter: @WildRefuge
Facebook: National Wildlife Refuge Association


Dear Mr. Melton,

Thank's so much for your thoughtful message concerning the proposed Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge, and please accept my apologies for the slow response.

As I think you know, the National Wildlife Refuge Association - a national non-profit organization that prides itself on working collaboratively with a diverse array of partners - from the NRA to Defenders of Wildlife - in the service of conservation is working with the Fish and Wildlife Service to make this proposal better and make it work for people like yourself.  Here's the approach we're recommending to the Fish and Wildlife Service:

* That the final Refuge proposal only include willing sellers - this would include eliminating River Ranch from the final proposal.  River Ranch is well managed for fish and wildlife and is conserved through the homeowners association so there is nothing the Fish and Wildlife Service can add to River Ranch;

* That the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission play a leadership role in the proposed refuge and that the Fish and Wildlife Service work to fund the conservation initiative and play a behind the scenes role except for managing important parcels to endangered species with little recreational value;

* That the Refuge be a small part of a larger conservation initiative and that the state, and other federal agencies such as the Department of Agriculture play equally important roles in conservation.

We also share your concerns about deficits; as we envision it, the majority of the funding will come from three sources: the Farm Bill - money already appropriated; the Land and Water Conservation Fund - monies received from off-shore oil drilling; and dollars from the sale of duck stamps (by law, 98 cents on every dollar to directly to conserving wildlife habitat). Therefore, capital cost of this proposal will not impact the deficit.

Again, I appreciate knowing your concerns about the proposal and hope this message helps answer some of your questions. And please don't hesitate to stay in touch as the process moves forward.


Best,


Evan

Lag screw Evan and his Nat'l. Wildlife Refuge Association and the horse that guided him  here.

The Farm Bill funds are what were used to kick out ATV's from the Picayune Strand and threaten Collier County with eminent domain to get their 290 miles of roads. In order to get Farm Bill money for South Florida Ecosystem Restoration this State gave the Sovereignty of the Picayune Strand to the US Army Corp and USFWS. This ass Even's letter basically acknowledges Fla is up for doing it again unless WE STOP THEM which we are well on our way to doing as long as folks don't go for the damn lies in Evans letter.

Oil royalties are hidden taxes that inflate the cost of oil and subsequently gasoline. This Evans must think he is speaking to 3rd graders. Hopefully he will find out differently by the time this is over. Personally I would prefer cheaper gas than the Headwatwers any day.

There is very little land if any inside the Headwaters footprint to utilize duck stamp money as per Charlie Pelizza at the Feb 3 ECC meeting in Lauderdale. Duck Stamps don't really bring in the kind of money Headwaters needs anyway.

It is nice to be alerted by Evan that FWC will take a lead role so as to fool US into believing that they are in charge. Federal laws have already proven that not to be possible in other areas of Fla. FWC will not be anything more than the dog or poney in a dog and poney show to fool us. These 2 scam experts USFWS and FWC have one problem on this project-Many of us have been here before and will NOT be fooled by their lies again. I am one for sure that will hound them as long as I can until they all go away from the Headwaters.  Oh, FWC is going to run things - what are we supposed to do cheer over that??  Any authority less than 100% is useless and merely a scam many of us have seen before.

Hopefully nobody in Remuda Ranch will fall for Evan's flattery over how they manage River Ranch and that USFWS thinks that is good enough. Folks, USFWS staff probably pukes at the sight of an ATV or buggy unless it is theirs on their property.
 
What the hell has already appropriated got to do with how my taxes are used to fund Headwaters.

Bottom line I see in this strategy Evan has explained being developed by USFWS, FWC and their partners is that they will ask for our support up front with a bunch of promises they know they cannot fulfill. Then when it comes time to fulfill the promises FWC will say  - "Oh we didn't know we don't have the authority to do that Sorry Folks."[/i][/u]

Evan, Thanks for the heads up to future BS.

Gladesman, I new it was a bunch of crap for sure. But I new you would want to see it. ;)

I saw it and notified a few others of the upcoming bag of tricks from a corrupt government and their Partners.

Government may be too nice of a word to describe these folks.

Oh wait a minute, they're not the government they're the bureaucracy.

Thanks for the post

Looks like the stage is being set for a modified strategy to convince us how great Headwaters will be but maybe it won't convince many who are aware of the facts related to this Federal intrusion.

Underlining or bold below by Gladesman

Here are some interesting recent emails including one from FWC director Nick Wiley:

*************** ***********************

To:Nick Wiley Nick.Wiley@myfwc.com

c.c. "LyleMcCandless@aol.com" <LyleMcCandless@aol.com>, "paul_souza@fws.gov" <paul_souza@fws.gov>, "aaron@woodsnwater.net" <aaron@woodsnwater.net>, "captfrankadams@aol.com" <captfrankadams@aol.com>, "info@ussportsmen.org" <info@ussportsmen.org>, "gmwilson8@embarqmail.com" <gmwilson8@embarqmail.com>, "i.armengol@worldnet.att.net" <i.armengol@worldnet.att.net>, "buckcrest@aol.com" <buckcrest@aol.com>, "cbarley9203@embarqmail.com" <cbarley9203@embarqmail.com>, "rodney@thebarretogroup.com" <rodney@thebarretogroup.com>, "bbarry@shutts.com" <bbarry@shutts.com>, "donrbarton@yahoo.com" <donrbarton@yahoo.com>, "capital.ideas@att.net" <capital.ideas@att.net>, "bcsalliance@aol.com" <bcsalliance@aol.com>, "bmason@fmc-slc.com" <bmason@fmc-slc.com>, "chokobryan@yahoo.com" <chokobryan@yahoo.com>, "jim.casselman@lmco.com" <jim.casselman@lmco.com>, "dcharland@trcintl.com" <dcharland@trcintl.com>, "wclark88@aol.com" <wclark88@aol.com>, "kyclk20@aol.com" <kyclk20@aol.com>, "jimcoletta@colliergov.net" <jimcoletta@colliergov.net>, "Collins, Chuck" <Chuck.Collins@myfwc.com>, FWC Commissioners <commissioners@myfwc.com>, "newtoncook@bellsouth.net" <newtoncook@bellsouth.net>, "patsydcooper@yahoo.com" <patsydcooper@yahoo.com>, "Morea, Cory" <Cory.Morea@myfwc.com>, "mike@swampbuggiesfl.com" <mike@swampbuggiesfl.com>, "davisw@windstream.net" <davisw@windstream.net>, "sdeline@abengineering.net" <sdeline@abengineering.net>, "spur0920@gmail.com" <spur0920@gmail.com>, "dudley4pack@aol.com" <dudley4pack@aol.com>, "huntmstr@tampabay.rr.com" <huntmstr@tampabay.rr.com>, "Eggeman, Diane" <Diane.Eggeman@myfwc.com>, "mikeelf96@aol.com" <mikeelf96@aol.com>, "elsid65@hotmail.com" <elsid65@hotmail.com>, "lovingairboats@gmail.com" <lovingairboats@gmail.com>, "DFleshler@sun-sentinel.com" <DFleshler@sun-sentinel.com>, "mikeford@fbclp.com" <mikeford@fbclp.com>, "NWTF.org/florida@aol.com" <NWTF.org/florida@aol.com>, "manleyfuller@comcast.net" <manleyfuller@comcast.net>, "jgarc137@fiu.edu" <jgarc137@fiu.edu>, "karl_greer@fpl.com" <karl_greer@fpl.com>, "jpg2esq@gmail.com" <jpg2esq@gmail.com>, "bushwagon@aol.com" <bushwagon@aol.com>, "cypresshunter99@yahoo.com" <cypresshunter99@yahoo.com>, "cathenson@comcast.net" <cathenson@comcast.net>, "matt.hudson@myfloridahouse.gov" <matt.hudson@myfloridahouse.gov>, "jadon.hull@aimengr.com" <jadon.hull@aimengr.com>, "jkh1212@gmail.com" <jkh1212@gmail.com>, "wayjen2500@msn.com" <wayjen2500@msn.com>, "abcs4578@hotmail.com" <abcs4578@hotmail.com>, "cfkearse11@tampabay.rr.com" <cfkearse11@tampabay.rr.com>, "corporatekim@bergeroninc.com" <corporatekim@bergeroninc.com>, "Looprd@aol.com" <Looprd@aol.com>, "ktuck15@hotmail.com" <ktuck15@hotmail.com>, "legom2@yahoo.com" <legom2@yahoo.com>, "bokeelia@ymail.com" <bokeelia@ymail.com>, "bdmaharrey@yahoo.com" <bdmaharrey@yahoo.com>, "marcoe@prodigy.net" <marcoe@prodigy.net>, "wecmnwtf@yahoo.com" <wecmnwtf@yahoo.com>, "JMccand402@aol.com" <JMccand402@aol.com>, "larrymccandless@windstream.net" <larrymccandless@windstream.net>, "dmccarty16@aol.com" <dmccarty16@aol.com>, "10point2010@gmail.com" <10point2010@gmail.com>, "cmogelvang@earthlink.net" <cmogelvang@earthlink.net>, "LJMoller@aol.com" <LJMoller@aol.com>, "cmorehead@moodyjones.com" <cmorehead@moodyjones.com>, "james.mullen@myfloridahouse.gov" <james.mullen@myfloridahouse.gov>, "murphystruck@bellsouth.net" <murphystruck@bellsouth.net>, "joepalandro@reeforrack.com" <joepalandro@reeforrack.com>, "Ross, Perran" <Perran.Ross@myfwc.com>, "barjnpwll@aol.com" <barjnpwll@aol.com>, "puch@bellsouth.net" <puch@bellsouth.net>, "robert4570@aol.com" <robert4570@aol.com>, "pross@ufl.edu" <pross@ufl.edu>, "craigrucker@gmail.com" <craigrucker@gmail.com>, "RVT4FST@aol.com" <RVT4FST@aol.com>, "scimiamichapter.com@aol.com" <scimiamichapter.com@aol.com>, "rick.scott@eog.myflorida.com" <rick.scott@eog.myflorida.com>, "crazydaveiii@yahoo.com" <crazydaveiii@yahoo.com>, "racedone@aol.com" <racedone@aol.com>, "smyking@cs.com" <smyking@cs.com>, "robertaamende@gmail.com" <robertaamende@gmail.com>, "saveourhardwoods@hotmail.com" <saveourhardwoods@hotmail.com>, "paulasprings@colliergov.net" <paulasprings@colliergov.net>, "estaats@naplesnews.com" <estaats@naplesnews.com>, "pereger1@gmail.com" <pereger1@gmail.com>, "gestephens@twlakes.net" <gestephens@twlakes.net>, "JohnS@ocillarealty.com" <JohnS@ocillarealty.com>, "lane@scggov.com" <lane@scggov.com>, "sloughfootcreek@aol.com" <sloughfootcreek@aol.com>, "thomas_strickland@ios.doi.gov" <thomas_strickland@ios.doi.gov>, "RVT4FST@centurylink.net" <RVT4FST@centurylink.net>, "brigittetaylor@yahoo.com" <brigittetaylor@yahoo.com>, "mtaylor@barneswalker.com" <mtaylor@barneswalker.com>, "t7top@aol.com" <t7top@aol.com>, "kasont@embarqmail.com" <kasont@embarqmail.com>, "lswjth2@yahoo.com" <lswjth2@yahoo.com>, "wildfed@gmail.com" <wildfed@gmail.com>, "junebd29@aol.com" <junebd29@aol.com>, "woodshed1979@aol.com" <woodshed1979@aol.com>, "bishopwright@bellsouth.net" <bishopwright@bellsouth.net>, "David, Dennis" <dennis.david@myfwc.com>, "Wynn, Chris" <Chris.Wynn@myfwc.com>, "Mark Musaus (Mark_Musaus@fws.gov)" <Mark_Musaus@fws.gov>, "Charlie_Pelizza@fws.gov" <Charlie_Pelizza@fws.gov>, "Holder, Greg" <greg.holder@myfwc.com>, Senator Marco Rubio <casework@rubio.senate.gov>, "Monica Aranegui (COLLIER)" <monica.aranegui@mail.house.gov>, "Miguel Otero (DADE)" <Miguel.Otero@mail.house.gov>


On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 4:55 PM, frank <gladesman@gmail.com> wrote:


Hello Nick,

I appreciate your acknowledgement at this early a point in the process that "we may not be able to work this out exactly as Mr.Moller proposed".

From what I am seeing and hearing opposition is growing and will continue to grow in spite of Mr. Mollers premature compromise proposal due to many citizens distrust of and lack of faith in State as well as Federal land management entities abilities to accomodate their needs due to unavoidable Federal mandates (e.g. laws, executive orders etc.) not to mention the projected $700,000,000 cost of this 1st of 4 phases.

The closest land classification I recently learned of that USFWS has to accomodate what Mr. Moller alludes to is a "coordination area" (of which USFWS's description is attached or at link http://www.fws.gov/refuges/about/coordareas.html (http://www.fws.gov/refuges/about/coordareas.html) ) which only affords State agencies "nearly full jurisdiction" which will not be acceptable to many who truly understand the Federal ramifications within this issue. An alternate term used for a USFWS "coordination areas" is "wildlife management area" which USFWS specifies in the attached document is still part of the Refuge system irregardless. That relationship is directly parallel to the Big Cypress National Preserves relationship with National Parks properties -- and we all know where that leads. In case we have forgotten it leads to protection of Wilderness characteristics as per the USFWS planning overview attached or at this link http://www.fws.gov/policy/602fw1.html (http://www.fws.gov/policy/602fw1.html) at item 1.5 H, and the promise of Wilderness recommendation at a minimum as per the Headwaters proposal at pg 21 Section XIV.

I applaud Mr. Mollers efforts but must agree with you Nick, that they are not exactly possible.

Best Regards,

Frank P.S. Please find Mr. Moller's suggestion to USFWS pasted below:

**************** **************** *******************

2-27-11

Mark J. Musaus
Deputy Regional Director
Fish and Wildlife Service
Southeast Region
404-679-4000

Mark

Good morning

I am one who always looks for solutions.

I know you have not had time to digest and develop a meaningful response to the numerous issues and questions I sent you this week. I look forward the agency's response.

I also do not believe the agency will be able to change its history, its culture and attitude about hunting in S FL.

Not wanting to lose this opportunity to help land rich-cash poor landowners and wanting to protect habitat I have a solution.

This solution will hinge on the true motives of the USFWS reasons for wanting to take control of 150,000 acres in central FL. If the agency's true purpose is to protect habitat then it will do what I am about to recommend.

However, if the true goals of the agency is something else; to build a larger agency, more land means more money means more people and to control more of FL then it will turn down this suggestion.

I am suggesting the USFWS grant the $700,000,000 to the FL Fish Wildlife and Conservation Commission (FWC). The FWC currently manages many more acres than the USFWS and is doing an great job. Currently the FWC is the only agency that has legal been charged by the FL Constitution to manage all wildlife in FL. Currently the FWC will have to do most of the management activities on the lands the USFWS wants to purchase and or control.

I also know the Governor of FL, the FWC Commissioners and staff understand that such money comes with a granting document. This document hides the rules, the words, that direct the FWC how to spend and use the money given it by the Federal Government. I would encourage the state not to accept any money in which these rules give the Federal Government and any of its agencies over sight of the management of these lands. The only direction and requirement in the granting document for the use of this money must be the funds can only be used to purchase in fee or via easement with the yet to determined boundaries of the area understudy.

In my opinion most opposition will stop if you give this money to the FWC under such rules.

What is the real reason the USFWS/Federal Government wants this land? To protect habitat or build a bigger agency?

I know some green groups will not like this as they are really federalist at heart but other conservation groups will support such and action.

Jack Moller




On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Wiley, Nick <Nick.Wiley@myfwc.com> wrote:

Hello Lyle. On behalf of FWC Commissioners and staff, we sincerely appreciate the respect and trust you place in our agency. We do not take this for granted and will continue to work hard to support the interests and needs of Florida Sportsmen and hunters. It is my understanding that Charlie Pelizza with the USFWS is coordinating the scoping process for the Everglades Headwaters Refuge proposal. I have copied him on this email. I believe he would be the most appropriate representative of the USFWS to respond rather than Paul Souza. Also, please note that we have advised the USFWS that we are open to creative partnerships that would address concerns you and others continue to express regarding the new refuge concept. This is one of the major reasons we would like to stay engaged and work through this process with the USFWS. I do believe they are considering this input very seriously. We also appreciate the constructive ideas and alternatives provided by Jack Moller. We may not be able to work this out exactly as Jack has proposed, but his input will certainly help us explore options. Thank you for your interest and input. Take care. Nick



Nick Wiley

Executive Director

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

Office Phone (850) 487-3796

FAX (850) 921-5786

Please visit our website at the following link:

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

************************* ****************************

From: LyleMcCandless@aol.com [mailto:LyleMcCandless@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 2:48 PM
To: Wiley, Nick; paul_souza@fws.gov; aaron@woodsnwater.net; captfrankadams@aol.com; info@ussportsmen.org; gmwilson8@embarqmail.com; i.armengol@worldnet.att.net; buckcrest@aol.com; cbarley9203@embarqmail.com; rodney@thebarretogroup.com; bbarry@shutts.com; donrbarton@yahoo.com; capital.ideas@att.net; bcsalliance@aol.com; bmason@fmc-slc.com; chokobryan@yahoo.com; jim.casselman@lmco.com; dcharland@trcintl.com; wclark88@aol.com; kyclk20@aol.com; jimcoletta@colliergov.net; Collins, Chuck; FWC Commissioners; newtoncook@bellsouth.net; patsydcooper@yahoo.com; Morea, Cory; mike@swampbuggiesfl.com; davisw@windstream.net; sdeline@abengineering.net; Gladesman@gmail.com; spur0920@gmail.com; dudley4pack@aol.com; huntmstr@tampabay.rr.com; Eggeman, Diane; mikeelf96@aol.com; elsid65@hotmail.com; lovingairboats@gmail.com; DFleshler@sun-sentinel.com; mikeford@fbclp.com; NWTF.org/florida@aol.com; manleyfuller@comcast.net; jgarc137@fiu.edu; karl_greer@fpl.com; jpg2esq@gmail.com; bushwagon@aol.com; cypresshunter99@yahoo.com; cathenson@comcast.net; matt.hudson@myfloridahouse.gov; jadon.hull@aimengr.com; jkh1212@gmail.com; wayjen2500@msn.com; abcs4578@hotmail.com; cfkearse11@tampabay.rr.com; corporatekim@bergeroninc.com; Looprd@aol.com; ktuck15@hotmail.com; legom2@yahoo.com; bokeelia@ymail.com; bdmaharrey@yahoo.com; marcoe@prodigy.net; wecmnwtf@yahoo.com; JMccand402@aol.com; larrymccandless@windstream.net; lylemccandless@aol.com; dmccarty16@aol.com; 10point2010@gmail.com; cmogelvang@earthlink.net; LJMoller@aol.com; cmorehead@moodyjones.com; james.mullen@myfloridahouse.gov; murphystruck@bellsouth.net; joepalandro@reeforrack.com; Ross, Perran; barjnpwll@aol.com; puch@bellsouth.net; robert4570@aol.com; pross@ufl.edu; craigrucker@gmail.com; RVT4FST@aol.com; scimiamichapter.com@aol.com; rick.scott@eog.myflorida.com; crazydaveiii@yahoo.com; racedone@aol.com; smyking@cs.com; robertaamende@gmail.com; saveourhardwoods@hotmail.com; paulasprings@colliergov.net; estaats@naplesnews.com; pereger1@gmail.com; gestephens@twlakes.net; JohnS@ocillarealty.com; lane@scggov.com; sloughfootcreek@aol.com; thomas_strickland@ios.doi.gov; RVT4FST@centurylink.net; brigittetaylor@yahoo.com; mtaylor@barneswalker.com; t7top@aol.com; kasont@embarqmail.com; lswjth2@yahoo.com; wildfed@gmail.com; junebd29@aol.com; woodshed1979@aol.com; bishopwright@bellsouth.net
Subject: Headwaters Reserve Proposal



March 2 2011



Nick Wiley and Paul Souza:



In a letter to you dated Feb. 27 2011 I express my support for Jack Moller's solution to the Headwaters Reserve situation. Since I didn't receive an immediate response I chose to take that as a positive indication that you are taking the time to carefully consider this completely proper solution to the problem. Attached is Jack's letter and my support letter.



With the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission in ownership and full control you can expect solid support from the public and stakeholders. The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conversation Commission has gained the respect and trust of the public and stakeholders by conducting business in a fair and proper way by truly involving the public in the process. To put it simply the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is the only friend the Sportsmen and hunters have in the state of Florida.



On the other hand the Federal Agencies including the USFWS, National Park Service, Water Management and others have alienated the public and stakeholders by doing business in a manner geared more toward a desired result as opposed to doing what is fair and proper in behalf of the citizens of Florida. As a result of this alienation of trust in Federal Agencies you can expect an unprecedented push back from the public and stakeholders against the Headwaters Reserve Project as currently proposed.

With Great Hope,

Lyle McCandless

Native Floridian

Pres. BCSA

Member DMTAG

Thanks for sharing.

Renmus try to also share your knowledge of this bad idea with every person you know and get them to comment to USFWS and mycommissioners@fwc.com now that they are on the record working with USFWS that both of them should only support the NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE when and IF it ever sees the light of day..

I just heard yesterday on the radio (npr) that a wind farm will be coming to central Florida, I wonder if the land being proposed is for this project?  I wonder whose greasy hands are involved and dont doubt the land will end up for this project. 

Don'tknow anything about a wind farm but Congratulations to you for listening to Nat'l Public Radio (NPR). We can all learn a lot by doing that and even participate in their talk shows once in a while to support our off road activities.
When I was a lot younger I used to scoff news radio in general and NPR in particular but not anymore.
Gladesman

Woods N Water, March issue, page 69 article on Chassahowitzka Refuge for FWC, USFWS and FDOF mis-management of nature.

Most who are aware of Headwaters probably wonder why Fla's. Fish and Wildlife Commission and Div of Forestry came out in support of this monster so soon.

I can't answer that but I can direct folks where to go and read about another such unholy alliance/partneship between these three mousketeers. It involves another USFWS Chassahowitzka Refuge/ ? FWC? (WMA) in Hernando County.

Get a copy of the March edition (better yet subscribe to) Woods N Waters magazine the best publication about hunting and fishing I've ever read.

When u get it go to page 69 and read how these 3 (FWC, USFWS and FDOF under newly ELECTED 1-tIME Adam Putnam) mousketeers are putting noithing less than a holocaust upon the oak trees and other hardwoods there that wildlife need for cover and food sources. Apparently the mousketeers have unilaterally declared the hardwoods as invasive exotics (possibly USING THE AUTHORITY THEY RECEIVED WHEN THE Invasive Species Working Group -ISWG- was created) and are clearing them out of the 33,000 acre so called (WMA).

Why did I say so-called WMA you ask? WMA means one thing to most if not all of us in Florida and that is a Wildlife Managament Area with Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission in charge. Guess again in the case of Chassahowitzka maybe we Floridians have been tricked into believing that the same way we may be tricked in Everglades Headwaters.

During my research regarding Headwaters I discovered the USFWS description of a land classification they call "coordination area" (at this link http://www.fws.gov/refuges/about/coordareas.html (http://www.fws.gov/refuges/about/coordareas.html) ) that allows States nearly full jurisdiction. In that USFWS description attached they mention "coordination areas" are also referred to as "conservation areas".

I mention this as a possiblity because while doing research for Headwaters I learned that the Feds (USFWS) have refuges seemingly run by States that in reality are not.

These refuges by law can legally referred coordination areas, conservation areas or low and behold as per this link  http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/25-12-what-these-terms-mean-19893650 (http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/25-12-what-these-terms-mean-19893650)    to the legal definition of a "coordination area" the term wildlife management areas is leagl to use.

Let's make sure we don't get tricked by the tricky Dicky terminilogy that will soon be used on us.

Be alert for the Everglades Headwaters RED FLAG   terms "coordination area", "conservation area" and "wildlife management area" whenever you hear them from the government concerning Headwaters.

We will need to demand a written confirmation verifying whether the WMA in question is a State or Federal WMA.

NO more trusting a handshake from anyone State or Federal. We learned that in 1974 in the Big Cypress and it don't work.

Gladesman

Call These Elected Officials - NOW
They need to hear the 11 reasons to choose the NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE

NWR - Headwaters Elected Officials Contact List
These folks represent constituents in the Headwaters study area.
Many phone calls to these elected officials need to be made to explain the down side of this bad idea.
 
US Senators

(Bill Nelson )

Washington DC ph 202 224 5474

West Palm Beach ph 561 514 0189

Miami ph 305 536 5999

Orlando ph 407 872 7161



(Marco Rubio)

Washington DC ph 202 224 3041

Miami ph 305 418 8553

Orlando ph 407 254 2573


US Congressmen


(Dennis Ross) email ross.house.gov

Washington DC 202 225 1252

Lakeland 863 644 8215



(Bill Posey) email posey.house.gov

Washington DC ph 202 225 3671

Melbourne ph 321 632 1776



(Tom Rooney) email rooney.house.gov

Washington DC 202 225 5792

Fort Pierce 772 288 4668


State Senators


President of Fla Senate

Senator (Mike Haridopolos)

Tallahassee ph 850 487 5056

Melbourne ph 321 752 3131


Senator( JD Alexander)

Tallahassee ph 850 487 5044

Lake Wales ph 863 679 4847


State Representatives


(Ms Denise Grimsley) Dist 77

Tallahassee ph 850 488 3457

Sebring ph 863 385 5251


(Matt Hudson ) Dist 101

Tallahassee 850 488 1028

Naples 239 417 6270

FWS is writing the report as if the people who got up and went to these meetings wasted time. 

http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/pdf/20110310SummaryofComments.pdf (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/pdf/20110310SummaryofComments.pdf)

Do not let THEM get away with this cheap trick!  Keep the cards and letters going to all Federal and State reps  ;D

Another cheap trick can be reviewed on the Blue Ribbon Coalition site.  Call it a Wild Land and bypass Congress altogether!!!
http://www.sharetrails.org/public-lands/?section=salazar_order (http://www.sharetrails.org/public-lands/?section=salazar_order)

Land speculators and cattle elite are well positioned to fleece taxpayers in a big way in Headwaters so called enviro-protection project. This link shows a prelude as to what will come to a few folks while most others just pay to make a few richer http://www2.highlandstoday.com/content/2011/mar/15/blue-head-got-34-million-from-feds/ (http://www2.highlandstoday.com/content/2011/mar/15/blue-head-got-34-million-from-feds/)

Maybe we should organize a ride to inspect some of the property our money is invested in now so as to make sure all the new rules are being followed to the letter of the conservation easement. Trust me they don't figure we are capable of doing it but we could. Similar actions have stopped many NPS objectives for years really pissing them off.

Possibly the first ride should be to Blue Head Ranch so we can all Thank Fl Senator JD Alexander personally for his magnamous selflessness in protecting Florida's environment. I'm sure the other 34,400,000 reasons only had a minor bearing on his decision making

Yeah, and let's ask those so-called ranches/ranchers/Lykes Bros. how many jobs they've created with those taxpayer monies!

Ok  I  just  spent  way  to long  on  a  Sat  nite reading  all  this   Now  Iam  a  land owner  out  a  Suburban Estates   and  the  SEPOA  has  been  talking  about  this  on  our board   Suburbanestates.net I  came   over  here   cto  seee  what  yall  are  saying  and  it  pretty much  all  the  same   but  you  guys  have  a  lot  more  activity. What  is  the  time  frame  on  this  do  we  have  a  chance in  hell  or  are  they
just   gonna  use  smoke  and  mirrors  and  screw  us all  ?  I  cant  see  them  buying  up  all  the  land  from  192 and  441   all  the  way  to  lake  okeechobee  then  what bulldoze  all  the   little  communities   all  on  the  way ?Please  dont  cuss  me  and   but  rather  educate  me  How  are  they  gonna  do  this  SE is a  little  differnt  than  RR   as  we built  camps  on  our  property   but  I  still  am  lost   

I am going to say we always have a chance.  Public Scoping comments are open until March 31.  Make sure to contact MORE than the FWS regarding this proposal.  Contact each and every public official you can think of.  In Florida, in Washington as well as other states.  The agency is very flip about saying that Congress will fund any shortfall to this proposal.  It is our job to make sure Congress knows that as American citizens and taxpayers we feel our tax dollars are spent on wiser investments.  Please make sure to stop by the FWS propoganda website http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/ (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/)

AintSkeered,  I understand where you are going with your comment.  I do have to say that Lykes is a heavy employer in the state however.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/mar/21/rubio-posey-to-speak-during-indian-river-tea-in/ (http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/mar/21/rubio-posey-to-speak-during-indian-river-tea-in/)

Lets go talk to them in person

Another chance to tell USFWS and elected officials what we think of Headwaters.

Meeting time 10:00am on March 25, 2011 located in Judge William L. Hendry Courtroom at 304 NW 2nd Street in Okeechobee Fl. 34972

This meeting includes representation from 10 Fl counties that need to hear exactly how we feel about Headwaters.

Charlie Pelizza will be there which means we need to be there.

Ernie Barnett from SFWMD will be giving a presentation. Who is he u ask? He is a person who was instrumental in having sovereignty removed from Picayune Strand in Collier county years ago. This character actually admitted to me in front of witnesses that he knew what he did in Picayune was treason but that there was so much money available that it made sense. If he is involved in Headwaters the same type stunt will be attempted. This excuse for an American is way more dangerous than Charlie Pelizza.

This is sort of short notice but folks need to be here. Folks will have 3 minutes to blast them. Let's be sure to take this oppurtunity to do it.

Gladesman

 

I was there with you when he admitted this at the Collier county commissioners meeting. I will do my very best to be there and remind that scum bag in front of everyone.

FWC still seems to be under the illision that hunters will bite on the hunting bone being offered and quit opposing the Headwaters. WRONG PERCEPTION. Headwaters is a bad idea for more reasons than hunting.

Even if hunting were a viable bone let's review FWC's recent comments to USFWS about the Headwaters.

In their comments FWC mentions a couple of times that hunters want more "quality hunting areas". Big unanswered question is "Who decides what quality hunting is"? To some such as myself that might hinge on an area not requiring quota permit hoops to be jumped through in order to hunt a place. The odds now on some WMA's is once in about 60 years of being drawn. Sorry, those junk odds aren't acceptable anywhere anymore.

If FWC wants hunting to be a viable goal in Headwaters Refuge "fee simple areas" they need to skip the quota permit system as their micro management tool that keeps folks out. The area would need to be run as the Public Use Area (PUA) along the Kissimmee in the region. I wonder how far that idea would fly today.

It is also sad to see that FWC lacked the courage to call USFWS out concerning their gobbldygook convoluted language at pg 21 of their project proposal that attempted to hide their promise of Wilderness recommendation. My belief is that by now especially after the whooping they took in the Addition Lands by NPS that FWC fully understands what USFWS words meant. Rather than back we sportsmen who discovered this USFWS stunt the best FWC could do in their comments was to refer to our concerns without directly backing us up using the weight of the agency. FWC's statement near the end saying they would adamantly oppose Wilderness is meaningless since it is not within their jurisdiction to prevent it once the ball begins rolling whether in Headwaters the Addition or anywhere else. The only way to prevent Wilderness recommendation and the crap that comes with it is to prevent Federal authority from happening period. Anyone who doesn't believe this better go get educated. FWC already knows this and is disenguine not to put it in their comments to USFWS.

Another worrisome FWC omission is the mention of off road vehicle access into any supposed Refuge. Hmmmm!!

FWC Comments:

Fish
and Wildlife
Conservation
Commission
Commissioners
Rodney Barreto
Chairman
Miami
Richard A. Corbett
Vice Chairman
Tampa
Kathy Barco
Jacksonville
Ronald M. Bergeron
Fort Lauderdale
Dwight Stephenson
Delray Beach
Kenneth W. Wright
Winter Park
Brian S. Yablonski
Tallahassee
Executive Staff
Nick Wiley
Executive Director
Greg Holder
Assistant Executive Director
Karen Ventimiglia
Deputy Chief of Staff
Managing fish and wildlife
resources for their long-term
well-being and the benefit
of people.
620 South Meridian Street
Tallahassee, Florida
32399-1600
Voice: (850) 488-4676
Hearing/speech impaired:
(800) 955-8771 (T)
(800) 955-8770 (V)
MyFWC.com
Office of the
Executive Director
Nick Wiley
Executive Director
(850) 487-3796
(850) 921-5786 FAX
March 14, 2011
Ms. Lauren P. Milligan
Florida State Clearinghouse
Florida Department of Environmental Protection
3900 Commonwealth Boulevard, M.S. 47
Tallahassee, FL 32399-3000

Lauren.Milligan@dep.state.fl.us

Re: Scoping Notice: Greater Everglades Partnership Initiative, SAI #FL201101195612, Multiple Counties

Dear Ms. Milligan:

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) staff participated in the scoping meetings for the referenced Initiative, and provides the following comments and recommendations in accordance with the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA).

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) is proposing to establish the Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and the Everglades Headwaters Conservation Area under a new partnership effort, the Greater Everglades Strategic Habitat Conservation Initiative (Initiative), in south-central Florida. The purpose of this Initiative is to conserve land, water, and wildlife resources while maintaining the area’s rural farming and ranching land uses. Lands would be acquired through a combination of fee title and less-than-fee title interests in cooperation with willing landowners. To facilitate planning and implementation among the Service, its partners, and the public, the area to be addressed by the Initiative has been divided into three Study Areas. The Service has proposed that the first Study Area, the Everglades Headwater, be developed under the NEPA process that has already started with scoping this past January and that would end in a final plan in the August – September 2011 timeframe.

We are supportive of the conservation benefits and expanded opportunities for public hunting that a new national wildlife refuge could bring to the area, provided the major concerns expressed by Florida’s hunting community can be addressed. Hunters continue to tell us that one of the biggest reasons that hunting is declining in Florida is the lack of access to quality public hunting opportunities. Florida is no longer in a financial position to acquire large tracts of public lands for establishing new wildlife management areas, so the proposed Initiative presents an alternative opportunity to open more public lands for public hunting. We note that some of the national wildlife refuges in Florida do provide quality public hunting. In addition, private landowners are some of the best stewards of fish and wildlife resources, so we are supportive of federal funding for conservation easements that would allow them to continue their farming and ranching practices while gaining long-term conservation assurance.

To that end, we call the Service’s attention to the following key points that we strongly believe must be acted upon in order for this proposal to be successful in Florida.

• The scope and scale of the Initiative is large and ambitious. The proposed timeline does not appear to allow for adequate FWC and partner input and participation. The importance of a thoughtful and thorough vetting of issues among the potential partners cannot be overemphasized, and we believe we can help communicate and advocate for the issues that are central to fish and wildlife conservation and are important to Florida’s hunters and anglers.
• Of paramount concern is the level of public access that would be allowed on lands that would be acquired fee simple. The FWC strongly advocates for them to be opened to public hunting with access similar to that which we provide on wildlife management

Ms. Lauren P. Milligan
Page 2
March 14, 2011
areas (WMA) in this region of Florida. We encourage the FWS to consider developing a cooperative agreement with the FWC to establish fee simple acquisitions as WMAs, whereby FWC would have the lead responsibility for determining and implementing appropriate public uses and be provided resources necessary for administering those uses including hunting. We strongly encourage the FWS to develop a Public Hunting Plan as a component of the Land Protection Plan so as to accommodate opening of fee simple lands to public access, including hunting as soon as possible after acquisition. We urge the FWS to incorporate this into their preferred alternative for this Initiative.

• We have heard the concern of some stakeholders that the lands within the new wildlife refuge or Initiative boundary could eventually be designated as “primitive backcountry” or even “federal wilderness,” similar to the recent proposal for the Big Cypress Addition Lands. Similarly, we have heard the concern that the state-owned public lands within the Study Area boundary may be placed into federal management that would result in public restrictions or even closures. The FWC would be adamantly opposed to any of these actions.

• The FWC strongly supports private landowners’ rights and would oppose any action that would impose land-use restrictions that are not willingly agreed upon by participating landowners.

• The FWC and its partners already have many programs that identify this area as a high conservation priority, and we have a long history of working to conserve it. We recommend that the Service take the adequate time to become familiar with these efforts so the Initiative can make the best use of conservation benefits that they already provide. Example programs include:

• Landowner Assistance Programs;
• State Wildlife Action Plan;
• Cooperative Conservation Blueprint and regional pilot work;
• Florida Landscape Conservation Cooperative effort;
• Regional visioning initiatives such as the Heartland 2060 effort;
• Natural Resources Conservation Service’s programs and focus;
• County resources through their comprehensive development planning process; and
• Florida Forever land acquisition programs and assessments.

The FWC appreciates the opportunity to comment on the Service’s continued efforts to conserve the south-central Florida region through the Greater Everglades Partnership Initiative. We look forward to working with Service staff as this project moves forward. Please contact our Northeast Regional Director, Dennis David, by telephone at 352-732-1225 or by email at Dennis.David@MyFWC.com if you have questions or for future coordination regarding FWC’s participation.

Sincerely,

Nick Wiley

Executive Director
nw/map
ENV 1-3-2
Greater Everglades Partnership Initiative_3199_031411
cc: Ms. Cynthia Dohner, USFWS, Cynthia_Dohner@fws.gov
Mr. Mark Musaus, USWFS, Mark_Musaus@fws.gov

Gladesman I will be at the meeting in Okee. to voice.

Spit Blue Fire

Report on 10 County Coalition meeting in Okeechobee.

Meeting had about 4 or 5 out of the 10 commissioners in attendance.

Started about 10 minutes late at 10:10am and ended around 12:15pm. Agenda was moved through pretty quickly. These folks move fast through the routine items.

Then we listened to 5 water reports covering many issues around Lake O. which is the main interest of this coalition. Reports were kind of boring to me except for the dike reinforcement report by Lt Col Mike Kinard of the USACE and the Headwaters report by our old friend Charlie Pelizza from USFWS.

Pelizza's report was similar to the usual with the same old powerpoint. Of course as usual he threw in a few twists and curves slightly different than other presentations possibly tuned to the specific audience he speaks to.

Charlie had problems today though. These commissioners didn't seemed too thrilled. In fact one commissioner asked him if any landowners had signed up for the Headwaters easements yet?

Instead of answering the question Charlie told him about the 15 or 20 landowners he had talked to already. A voice from the back of the room Danny B. yells out "the man asked how many are signed up?" Than the commissioner asked the question again and Charlie sheepishly answered the question "Nobody has." Getting to the truth is like pulling teeth with these folks and the commissioners saw it clearly.

Then we opponents were asked to start speaking - there were about 5 of us. We hit Charlie hard on many aspects of his sales pitch. I focused intently on his BS statement that NO TAX money will be used to do Headwaters. I explained to him and the commissioners that money didn't fall out of heaven into the grant fund sources listed by USFWS in their powerpoint. USFWS must really think we are all stupid but they will find out we are not stupid before this is all over.

Other folks focused on giving the money to the State in one way or the other so the Feds could be cut out of the picture. Personally I can't fully agree with that idea because if we are saying the America doesn't have the money for this than it shouldn't happen via the State or Feds. When we do this we look like a bunch of folks looking for a free hunting ride or something. The State doesn't deserve the money - the people deserve to have it left in their pockets for a change.

Everyone did a real good speaking job. I believe we were well received by the 10 County Coalition and that they appreciated our coming there to inform them of what we know.

Commissioner Echols from Glades county even mentioned how the 1st thing the Feds did in Big Cypress was to burn down the hunt camps. So much for Charlies promise concerning recreation, hunting etc. No Sale today in Okeechobee.

That's about it for now.

Gladesman

Gladesman, Today went well I do agree that the commissioners did not buy charlies sales pitch but lets not let are guard down Glad I could be there to speak.
Thanks

NO WAY - The Headwaters has been hit but definetly not down for keeps yet.

Gladesman

 :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif   THANK YOU for giving those that could'nt go a voice at the meeting.  i'll be keeping an eye out for those 2 scumbags in the future!!!!

 :ThumbsUp.gif  Gladesman and RER!
Good info.  Thanks for sharing.  I do not trust CP or any of his cronies on ANYTHING they say.

Comments sent to USFWS a couple of hours ago. Hopefully these comments along with other folks' comments designed to act as a silver bullet to kill this Headwaters dracula in a cloak bad idea NOW rather than later will be successful.

My compliments to all who tried their best to kill the Headwaters rather than play with this thing.

The comment period is open until midnight tomorrow for those still wanting to provide the Feds their thoughts on the bad idea at evergladesheadwatersproposal@fws.gov

*******************                                ********************                              ****************

NWR Comments regarding Everglades Headwaters Refuge and Conservation Area
To: United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS)

From: Frank                                                                                                                                             Hialeah, Florida   33013

Date:  March 30, 2011

Re:  Comments regarding USFWS scoping process and the Refuge concept specifically.

Scoping Process
Scoping meetings were held prior to distribution of any meaningful accurate detailed information that would have assisted attendees that weren’t already collaborating partners with USFWS.  USFWS partners such as The Nature Conservancy (TNC), Audubon of Fla., Defenders of Wildlife, Fl Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission to name a few were well prepared to provide coordinated comments to assist in generating the administrative record USFWS was looking to have established at their scoping meetings. TNC’s comments of March 2011 to USFWS verify they have been involved for over 2 years to develop the suite of properties they recommended to be targeted for inclusion.  On the other hand the general public who the meeting schedule was sprung on with short notice had no comprehensive detailed information to base comments upon except the USFWS’s Headwaters deceptive propaganda available at USFWS’s project web site. This intentional USFWS tactic deprived a large segment of scoping meeting attendees the ability to actually provide comments during their allotted speaking times. Instead they were forced to ask questions due to lack of available information rather than providing substantive comments regarding the Headwaters planning process. USFWS did not even attempt to provide accurate consistent mapping of their Headwaters proposal proven by major changes during the meeting schedule.

The National Environmental Policy Act was seriously violated by these USFWS actions which discriminated against many locally concerned citizens who took the time to attend scoping meetings.

The bottom line result is that all of the meetings should be held over again after real information upon which to comment upon has been provided to the general public.

Everglades Headwaters Refuge

USFWS and their Partners tout that this Headwaters Refuge and Conservation Area are necessary  in order to assist restoration of the water quality of the Everglades and assure the cattle ranching heritage survives and can be passed on to future generations. These two goals cannot be met simultaneously due to the fact that if the cattle remain in the Northern Everglades Headwaters region as they have been historically one of the main water quality problems caused by cattle waste will not be removed  by spending the $700,000,000 dollars estimated to fund the 1st of 4 phases of land acquisition supposedly required. There will be many more millions required in addition to clean up the mess already caused by the cattle heritage proposed to be saved. This isn’t the fault of the cattle but the USFWS’s for not understanding the situation.   Another problem to passing on the ranching heritage not solved by Headwaters is the inheritance taxes faced by ranchers. That is claimed by ranchers Nationwide as the main problem in securing ranching into the future and is not addressed by Headwaters land acquisition.

Endangered species are another reason for creating a refuge in order to provide corridors for movement and more range for species such as the Florida Panther. USFWS is a hypocrite to claim there even is a Florida Panther today since Florida reclassified many years ago that they are only protecting the Panther population in Florida after not being able to successfully prosecute a person who intentionally killed one due to the State’s inability to prove the sub-species (felis concolor coryi) existed. So as to further support this claim I will include an lengthy excerpt from the book titled “Swamp Screamer” authored by Charles Fergus describing how panther researchers discovered the Panther being studied in the 90’s in Florida had already been hybridized at that point in time and since then hasn’t legally qualified for ESA funding.

  Beginning at paragraph 2 on page 118:
Roelke went to O’briens laboratory in Maryland and learned his arcane practices. She applied them to blood samples she had been hoarding from Florida panthers. She compared the genetic material to that of 8 other North American puma subspecies and 3 South American subspecies. (These were all the races from  which biologists and veterinarians had secured tissue or blood samples.) The indicator on which she focused was a distinctive form of an enzyme called “adenosine phosphoribosyl transferase”, or APRT. Roelke and O’brien concluded that 7 panthers in Everglades National Park had descended, at least in part, from Central or South America. Also the South American genes had crossed the Shark River Slough (one wandering cat could have done it) and infiltrated the main cluster of panthers in Big Cypress ecosystem.

Roelke studied the archives of Everglades National Park and learned that a small private menagerie, Everglades Wonder Gardens of Bonita Springs, Florida, had turned loose at least 7 captive pumas between 1957 and 1965. Apparently park administrators had wanted to boost the panther’s population even back then, and no doubt they were under the impression that the imports were pure Florida panthers. Thirty years later, Everglades Wonder Gardens was still in business. Roelke went and checked on their cats. She zeroed in on an ancient female named Fatima. With the permission of Lester Piper, the menagerie’s owner, Roelke trimmed Fatima’s toenails. Also, she snuck a syringe of her blood: South American APRT.

On to  page 119
“ No one wants to admit it.” Roelke said “but apparently a tame female from the East coast was brought into the menagerie in the fifties.” Maybe she came from Central America. Or from French Guiana, where the native puma had such a reddish cast to its coat that it is called tigre rouge. In any event, a cross-bred panther had made it into the wild. Five, six, seven generations later, the chromosomal contributions of at least one foreign cat could still be detected.

Which meant that Florida’s panthers were cross-bred. They were still overwhelmingly Felis Concolor coryi, but they were not purely so. In several scientific papers, Roelke and O’brien referred to the cross-bred cats as “heretical”, which was a polite of calling them hybrids. It seemed that the outside genes had given a boost to the panthers’ overall health. It was as if, say, several Haitian immigrants had been somehow accepted into an isolated Amish community in which, due to inbreeding, half the children were being born as dwarfs. After a few generations there would be darker- skinned Amish plowing the fields, fewer of whom would be three feet tall.
Yet if the panther was helped biologically by this influx of genes, it had been compromised politically. The Endangered Species Act bestows protection on the Florida Panther. It provides funding to aid in its restoration. It disallows the wholesale plundering of its habitat. It scares the hell out of corporations poised to turn thousand acre tracts of panther-friendly pine forest into orderly, profitable rows of orange and grapefruit trees.
The Endangered Species does not apply to hybrids.
End of page 119 of “Swamp Screamer” author Charles Fergus  ph 1 814 692 5097
By the way I installed the bold type in this excerpt.

Nothing has changed to make the claim of protecting a “Florida Panther” any more valid today than back in the 90’s except the refusal of the USFWS to admit they are continuing the fraud to maintain their ability to wield power through the misappropriated funds they distribute to support  the Florida Panther Preservation  industry dependent upon said funds. 

Pasted below is a comment made to a March 14, 2011 article about Florida Panthers from the National Park Traveler web site. More proof if one cares to look reality in the eye. Here is a direct link to the full article and all comments   http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2011/03/florida-panther-next-extinction7746 (http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2011/03/florida-panther-next-extinction7746)

Comments
Submitted by MRC (not verified) on March 16, 2011 - 7:37am.
The news about the "eastern cougar" and the biological data is a big mess. I read the FWS press release as a confirmation that the eastern cougar did never exist at all, not now, not before. The headline thus seems to be missleading. The five year review of scientific data and reports of sightings concluded that there is no eastern subspiecies of the cougar. Given their limited terminology determined by legislation, the FWS has to call this result "extinction".
Biological studies seem to show that there are no subspiecies at all in North America, meaning not even the Florida Panther would be a subspecies but merely a population with a insular habitat: http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/91/3/186.abstract (http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/91/3/186.abstract)
This does not deminish the need for protection for the Florida population, but it confirmes that exact terminology is important.
•   reply


USFWS and all of their so called partners are nothing more than a gang of co-conspirators engaged in a criminal enterprise  by not shutting down this junk science based program.

My apologies for being blunt but the eternal tyranny caused by this sham requires plain English.

Hunting and access to hunting lands are of great concern to me and many others. Hunting in Central and South Florida includes unique vehicular systems (e.g. airboats, swamp buggies, ATV’s, mud boats, etc. etc.) to access remote hunting areas in difficult terrain. Without the acceptance by USFWS of these unique vehicular access systems that come in many forms being declared compatible within the proposed refuge any public access or hunting plan developed by USFWS or Fl Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is a farce and will not be supported in any way by the well informed public.

As far as any USFWS rumor that a State agency being given full control over the refuge and hunting goes – it cannot be believed due to USFWS document s that specify otherwise.

Hopefully Florida hunters will not fall prey to this State and Federally coordinated deception only to find out later that they have been lied to as usual concerning the devils in the details that will come out when it is too late to stop this terrible idea and concept.

My personal belief is that we have sufficient hunting lands in Florida without any Federal help to get more. If we need more hunt land at some point the State is quite able to acquire it when economically feasible. In view of current economic conditions it is not proper for Federal or State agencies to be suggesting any land acquisitions for any reasons such as the ones mentioned to justify the Headwaters bad idea.

USFWS  expressed intent to recommend Wilderness in areas of this proposal is more proof of restrictions that will only allow foot access to any Refuge which is totally unacceptable in this region of Florida due to weather and terrain conditions.  The Wilderness issue alone should justify scrapping the whole Headwaters project especially due to the crafty language USFWS used in their propaganda to camouflage their intent to recommend it in the future if this bad idea proceeds forward.

A few closing comments to the Refuge idea being proposed will follow and be put forth in as positive as manner as possible to suggest that USFWS choose the No Action Alternative now instead of later and facilitate a decision to forego development of a Land Protection Plan:


11 - POSITIVE RESULTS

OF CHOOSING

United States Fish and Wildlife Service’s

NO ACTION ALTERNATIVE

For

Everglades Headwaters Refuge and Conservation Area Proposal

Now Rather Than Later

1 Taxpayers will save the $700,000,000 (3/4 Billion dollar) down payment for this 1st phase of 4 phases of the unnecessary and unjustified USFWS vision called Everglades Headwaters Refuge and Conservation Area (EHRCA).

2 The U.S. Congress and voters will not be disenfranchised by USFWS’s decision to choose this particular process to avoid legislative debate as per USFWS’s Mr. Charlie Pelizza at the Everglades Coordinating Council meeting in Ft. Lauderdale Florida on February 3, 2011.

3 State sovereignty over hundreds of thousands of acres of Florida’s landscape will be maintained rather than relinquished to the Feds in order to facilitate USFWS’s and their Partners vision.

4 Private property owners will no longer be threatened by known future Federal actions that will devalue and make their properties less useful for the purposes they acquired them for.

5 Counties within this project will maintain their full tax base.

6 Job creation will be greatly enhanced by USFWS and their Partners losing the ability to use EHRCA as a tool to block and escalate costs of necessary highway construction or enhancements and green energy production (wind, solar etc.)

7 Florida’s elected officials Oaths of Office will be upheld.

8 USFWS’s will lose the ability to fulfill their promise of Wilderness review and recommendation included in convoluted language at pg 21, section XIV of their project proposal document.

9 Continuation of Customary and traditional uses of and means of accessing remote areas of the region by visitors and residents will be assured.

10 Maintaining local rural cultures will be assured by current economic conditions and cessation of speculative land purchases leading to over development.

11 Prevention/reduction in the ability of environmental organizations to litigate over Federal land management issues will be facilitated by currently private lands remaining in full private ownership. Federal ownership and jurisdiction opens the door widely for these opportunistic/predatory law suits.

Thanks for the opportunity to comment even though USFWS has chosen to fast track this proposal beyond the capacity of State agency’s ability to keep up (as per Fl Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission comments) much less the public.

Frank

Gladesman, I email some more tonight lets hope for the best.

Yes, a head shot and a quick end to the Headwaters. Hooray

 Major hunting & conservation umbrella group has recently voted to oppose Headwaters 100% including any so-called WMA managed by FWC since they (FWC) will never be fully in charge.



At least one meeting with another Congressman will happen the week of Apr 18, 2011



Anyone who missed commenting to the scoping process may have a chance to tell USFWS what they think around May or June if this bad idea isn't dead by then.



All previously suggested comments will still be valid to be used for USFWS's Land Protection Plan should it be produced

keep the info coming.

United States Department of the Interior
FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE
1875 Century Boulevard
Atlanta. Georgia 30345
In Refer Reply To: MAR 2 5 2011
FWS/F4/R4/Axea II
Mr. Pete Edwards
President
River Ranch Property Owners Association
18550 Circle 630 East
Lake Wales, Florida 33898
Dear Mr. Edwards:
The Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) would like to thank you and the members of the River
Ranch Property Owners Association (POA) for your interest in the proposed Everglades
Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and Conservation Area. As you are aware, we held
several public meetings and another face to face meeting with your organization to listen to the
comments, concerns, and interest that the public and the River Ranch POA had with the
proposal. Public comments and concerns that have been received on the proposal are being
addressed during the next steps of the planning process.
Upon further evaluation, we have determined that the River Ranch properties will no longer be
included in the boundary of the proposed project area. This is based on our commitment to only
work with willing sellers and from the input we have received to date, it is apparent that the
majority of landowners within the River Ranch area would not be willing sellers. The Service
also recognizes the importance of the River Ranch area as an area of high conservation value,
and the important role that the POA has in managing and maintaining the area.
We look forward to continued discussions and the opportunity to build a working conservation
relationship with the POA. We do see the opportunity to work collaboratively on conservation
projects through landowner assistance programs such as the Service's Partners for Fish and
Wildlife program which offers assistance to landowners on conservation planning and habitat
management activities.
Sincerely yours,
Cynthia K. Dohner
Regional Director
TAKE PRIDE TBESLJ
IN AMERICA ^S?^

cool beans!!  I bet they are happy!!!

Gladesman, Renmus et al deserve much credit for their involvement with action vs. lip service or excuses!

 :bow.gif :bow.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif

X2 !!!    :ThumbsUp.gif

LOTS of people were involved with this.  I thank everyone who took a stand and reacted to this issue.  Many times you read it, shrug and figure it is not your yard that is being taken.  I think we need to start educating some riders about life in the woods so that all of us can continue enjoying the time we spend there.  It is not always about being drunk and going fast.  Time and place for everything. 

We all many times suspect conspiracies against our activities. People look at us like we are a little or maybe alot crazy.

I'll tell you one thing for pretty sure after reading the article pasted below from ECO-Voice.

We aren't being screwed by a conspiracy regarding the Headwaters, The Wildlands Project. FWC's Comprehensive Wildlife Conservation Program (CWCS) and FWC's Florida Wildlife Legacy Initiative (FWLI) but what the government calls coordination is the tool being used.

Read the article below and go to the meeting even if u have to skip work to see how what is being done to us is accomplished.

Don't forget to RSVP at the number below quick if u are going.

My apologies for short notice - just spotted this tonight. Hope some of y'all can go to tell them what u think of their possibleaccess robbing plans, since I cannot

Gladesman

SAVE THE DATE April 20, 2011 10am -3pm at the Southwest Florida Regional Planning Council, in Ft. Myers for a Southwest Florida Blueprint Working Group meeting
I would like to invite you to attend a meeting of the Southwest Florida Blueprint Working Group. The working group is part of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's (FWC's) Cooperative Conservation Blueprint project.
Meeting Purpose:
The Southwest Blueprint Working Group is engaging stakeholders in nine counties to begin to identify and prioritize an interconnected system of wildlife corridors. The starting point for our work is the moderate connectivity scenario from The Babcock Ranch Regional Connectivity Study and theSteering Committee's final recommendations. The Babcock Study identifies a potential system of connected habitat corridors that extends northward to Tampa Bay, east to the Kissimmee River Valley and south to the Big Cypress. A rapid assessment of threats to these wildlife corridor opportunity areas will help us to begin to prioritize. We would like ultimately to gain consensus around priority corridors in the regional and develop a regional implementation plan to make conservation of these corridors a reality.
Background:
The FWC launched the Blueprint process in 2007 to develop and build agreement on a compelling incentive-based and long-range conservation vision for Florida - a core element of implementing the FWC's Florida Wildlife Legacy Initiative. The goal is to couple non-regulatory market-based incentiveswith the conservation of a connected system of working agricultural and natural lands that form the Florida landscape and that conserve fish and wildlife. The approach supports maintaining the land in private ownership and producing an economic return while sustaining the best of natural Florida for future generations.

The FWC initiated the Regional Pilot Project in early 2011 to field test the Blueprint approach at the regional scale. The blueprint pilot covers a 13-county section of South Central and Southwest Florida - an area that includes all or part of Polk, Osceola, Orange, Okeechobee, Hardee, Desoto, Highlands, Glades, Hendry, Collier, Lee and the eastern halves of Charlotte and Sarasota counties.

Please RSVP and let me know if you are able to attend this meeting, from 10:00am to 3:00pm April 20th. (I expect that lunch will be provided.)

Julie Morris, Wildlands Conservation, or myself are available if you have any questions. You may contact Julie at jmorris@wildlandsconservation.org or 941-2347201. My contact information is below.
Hope you can make it!

Christine Small
Endeavours Together, LLC
Total Project Management
850-274-2641
christine@endeavourstogether.com
http://www.endeavourstogether.com (http://www.endeavourstogether.com)

I notice that the meeting's being held in Lee County and Lee County is included in those targeted "habitat corridors", folks. Need I remind you SW Fl folks where you like to ride?

anybody going??

SMP63 - if you go and let'em know what u think of wildlife corridors that smell like Headwaters ; that is what counts.

rsvped today, just wanted to know if anybody wanted to carpool!

I can't go but mayber u could write a report of the meeting tomorrow so everyone knows what went on and who said what.?

That would be great.
Gladesman

No problem gladesman. I sorta did the same thing about the ohv park south of mulberry. I just got into the wonderfull world of atving back in January. I don't like the fact of them trying to shut us out of places to ride.

SMP63 also cant make this one thanks for going lets us know (P.S.) watch them close there full of tricks.

Here is the USFWS notice of a Land Protection Plan (LPP) and Environmental Assesment (EA) due out in June.

It is very very important for everyone to request these 2 documents (LPP&EA) in PAPER - Please do that by emailing your request to EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov.

This Sample request that can be pasted in the email with your address - Please send paper copies of the draft LPP and EA for Headwaters to the address included in this email.

*******************************************************************************************

USFWS Notice
Would You Like a Copy of the Draft LPP and EA for the Proposed Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and Conservation Area?

The US Fish and Wildlife Service is pleased to announce the upcoming release for public review and comment of the draft Land Protection Plan (LPP) and Environmental Assessment (EA) for the proposed refuge and conservation area (anticipated for mid June 2011). To help save money, a digital copy of the draft LPP and EA will be available for download on the Internet at: http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/. (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/.) If you would like a paper or CD copy, please select one of the listed options below

Please send me a paper copy of the Draft LPP & EA for the proposal,
Please send me a CD copy of the Draft LPP & EA for the proposal, and/or
Please remove me from your mailing list

and please

Email your option to us at EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov or
Phone your option to us at 321.861.0667 or
Mail your selected option on this sheet to Everglades Headwaters Proposal, US Fish and Wildlife Service, PO Box 2683, Titusville, FL 32781-2683.

Please include your option (paper and/or CD copy), your name, and your mailing address in your correspondence so we can be assured to send you the proper selection.

For more information or if you have any questions, please contact us at EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov or phone us at 321.861.2368.

Cheri M. Ehrhardt, AICP
Natural Resource Planner
US Fish and Wildlife Service

 
 
Site Supporter - II
 

Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:08 pm
Posts: 300  This link http://www.friendsofindependencelake.org/ (http://www.friendsofindependencelake.org/) shows what type of friend The Nature Conservancy (TNC) actually is.

Just Say NO to Headwaters and the TNC.


 
 

USFWS showed their true colors in the Dunn unit of their Refuge in Vermont.

Could the word bigot apply here?

What ORV access can we look forward to in Headwaters even under so called State (Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission) control as a Wildlife Management Area (WMA)?

This Federal National Wildlife Refuge unit in Vermont is an example of a State managed WMA that HAS to follow Federal rules, laws etc.
The Excerpts below are from the US Fish and Wildlife Service's Environmental Assessment Appendix C - pg 61 of final EA for Eagle Point Unit of Missisequoi Nat Wildlife Refuge - here's a link http://www.fws.gov/northeast/planning/e (http://www.fws.gov/northeast/planning/e) ... A_Maps.pdf

My research indicates that qualifying special circumstances may only be applicable State & Federal agency management activities in coordination areas [WMA's] with MOU's). Special circumstances do not require compatibility determinations by USFWS.

from pg 61

It is the policy of the Service not to allow ATV/ORV use on National Wildlife Refuge
lands, except in special circumstances, none of which apply here. We do not intend to

permit the use of ATV's from the unimproved parking lot near Hall's Creek, or on any other

portion of the property. We understand that Mr. Dunn allowed limited access across his

property to the lake by ATV's, but this is not a condition of acceptance. Similarly, the new

Agency of Natural Resources policy allowing connector trails to cross State lands on a trial

basis will not apply to this property, if it is accepted as part of the National Wildlife Refuge

System. We are not proposing to prohibit ATV use on Lake Memphremagog; we are

proposing to prohibit ATV use on the Dunn property. ATV users will still be able to use

their equipment on the lake; however they will have to use other access points to do so.

We understand in talking with many people that such access is available

Since Federal ownership is required by the Dunn Trust, the Service has agreed to accept the

property and enter into a cooperative agreement for management by the State. The only

way to do this is to accept the property into the National Wildlife Refuge System. While

the property can be managed by the State in a manner similar to a WMA, it will be

necessary for management of the property to comply with all laws and policies required of

refuge system lands. Hiking, camping, and other public uses such as hunting and fishing

will be accommodated where they are compatible with the primary purpose for the refuge

system, which is wildlife conservation. We have discussed this matter with the trustee of

the Dunn Trust, who has spoken with those individuals closest to Mr. Dunn during his life.

These individuals and the trustee agree that the proposed plan coincides with Mr. Dunn's

philosophy and intentions.

From pg 62

Two organizations, the Vermont All Terrain Sportsman’s Association Inc. and the Vermont

Traditions Coalition, voiced major concerns regarding ATV, snowmobile, and fishing

access, and withheld support unless certain conditions are met. Concern was voiced about

ATV prohibition and the possible future need for a trail connector through the property.

Both groups pointed out the importance of snowmobile and ATV access to the lake for ice

fishing, noting that it is an important traditional activity important to local economy. VTC

also listed additional conditions to be satisfied to obtain their support, including the

following: no easements should be granted to private organizations; fishing access is

needed; a long term contract is necessary between agencies; the towns must support; and

agricultural use must continue.

It is the policy of the Service not to allow ATV/ORV use on National Wildlife Refuge

lands, except in special circumstances, none of which apply here. We do not intend to

permit the use of ATV's from the unimproved parking lot near Hall's Creek, or on any other

portion of the property. We understand that Mr. Dunn allowed limited access across his

property to the lake by ATV's, but this is not a condition of acceptance. Similarly, the new

Agency of Natural Resources policy allowing connector trails to cross State lands on a trial

basis will not apply to this property, if it is accepted as part of the National Wildlife Refuge

System. We are not proposing to prohibit ATV use on Lake Memphremagog; we are

proposing to prohibit ATV use on the Dunn property. ATV users will still be able to use

their equipment on the lake; however they will have to use other access points to do so.

We understand in talking with many people that such access is available

End of Excerpt

As you can see the name of the game here is denial of vehicular access to the general public - even the use of existing traditional access sites (unimproved parking lots) but the agencies can go where they want on ORV's.

Let's see how up front and transparent (abundantly clear) State and Federal entities are when the WMA bone and ORV access to it are discussed in the near future.

Anyone with a brain somewhere other than between the seat they are sitting in and themselves (including elected officials) knows that a bankrupt Nation shouldn't even be spending money on discussing a stunt called Headwaters much less actually doing it.

Gladesman

Here is the notice of the USFWS Land Protection Plan being unveiled.

I hate to say it but it is time to start thinking about writing comments against this Federal bad idea again.

I will read it as quickly as possible and get suggested comments up for folks to review and possibly use.

Hopefully considering how fast they produced it it won't be too many pages.

If you haven't demanded your copy of the plan on paper and CD please do it as soon as possible. They need to see our high interest level and this is a way to document it for future use.

******************************************************************************************

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Proposed Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and Conservation Area

Public Review and Comment Period to Begin in August 2011

The US Fish and Wildlife Service is pleased to announce the upcoming release for public review and comment of the draft Land Protection Plan (LPP) and Environmental Assessment (EA) for the proposed Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and Conservation Area (now anticipated for August 2011).

To help save money, a digital copy of the draft LPP and EA will be available for download on the Internet at: http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/. (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/.) Copies will also be mailed out to those who request them (please call 321.861.0667 or email EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov to request a copy if you have not already done so and wish to receive a copy in the mail). And, copies will be available at the public meetings, which will be scheduled during the public review and comment period.


For more information or if you have any questions, please contact us at EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov or phone us at 321.861.2368. Additional information can be found at the project’s website: http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/. (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/greatereverglades/.)
Cheri M Ehrhardt, AICP
Natural Resource Planner

US Fish & Wildlife Service
PO Box 2683
Titusville, FL 32781-2683

Cheri_Ehrhardt@fws.gov
321.861.2368 office
321.861.8913 fax

FYI - So folks now what is happening in Washington D.C.

It would be very wise for all to watch the web cast of this entire meeting at this link  http://naturalresources.house.gov/Calendar/EventSingle.aspx?EventID=246553 (http://naturalresources.house.gov/Calendar/EventSingle.aspx?EventID=246553)  to understand what may be driving decisions we hate.

Think $$$ and listen close to a guy named Garamendi from California.

Mr Amador from Blue Ribbon Coalition explains really dispicable tactics used by one group of land managers to screw folks out of a popular area.

ARRA Partners Promote OHV Recreation to House Subcommittee

Yesterday, June 22nd the House Committee on Natural Resources, Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands held a hearing titled “Opportunities for Outdoor Recreation on Public Lands.” The focus of the hearing was on access to federal lands for recreational use and the economic benefits of recreational activity on federal lands.

OHV leaders from several ARRA partners testified about the economic benefit of motorized recreation, while others focused on specific access issues. Testimony was provided on H.R. 1581, which would release all Wilderness Study Areas and Inventoried Roadless Areas that have been deemed not suitable for wilderness designation for management for multiple-use, and on the closure of the Clear Creek Management Area in California.  A full witness list and the written testimony for each witness can be read here.  An archived webcast of the hearing can be viewed here.

ARRA would like to thank Chairman Rob Bishop (R-UT) and the Subcommittee for holding this important hearing, which showcased many of the positive benefits of OHV recreation on public lands, particularly the positive economic impact that motorized recreation can have on neighboring communities.  thingy Lepley, who testified on behalf of the Pennsylvania Off-Highway Vehicle Association, summed up one of the major themes of the hearing when he said, “If I could deliver just one message today it would be that OHV opportunities equal jobs. Where trail systems exist, the powersports industry and dealerships thrive, and local communities flourish.”

 

IT'S ON NOW

Headwaters Enviro Assessment at link http://www.fws.gov/southeast/everglades (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/everglades) ... raftEA.pdf

We have made an impression on these folks and need to continue doing so until the end of this process.

Pgs of interest to STUDY
305 no orv's
307 orv promise in future w/o guarantees
316 no orv's?
317 off trail orv's = no ?
322 hunting at HISTORIC ledves IF owner selling land to USFWS authorizes it. Same scam used in other places to get rid of hunting and blame it on seller. Seller shouldn't have any future control right.
324 fishing pretty conditional with bias towards electric motors.

Thses may be good places to start studying this plan.

I won't be able to start studying much more until next week so anyone finding important stuff Please distribute it to all here.

Gladesman

The specified URL cannot be found.

Try this one http://www.fws.gov/southeast/evergladesheadwaters/ (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/evergladesheadwaters/)

Then scroll down about half way and clik on Environmental Assessment and check the pages listed plus more.

Any hunter thinks there is a bone in this waste of money for him is going to be disappointed.

Oppose  Oppose  Oppose and save much time and effort for a disappointment 10 or 15 years from now.

Better to save we taxpayers money and not be indebted over this bad idea.

So far one of the advertised purposes to spend $700,000,000 for this 1st phase of a bad Headwaters idea is to improve the water quality flowing South into the Everglades.

What a crock of BS. The excerpt below from the Headwaters Environmental Assessment acknowledges that claim is at best a stretch at worst a downright lie to the American people and the US Congress.

The excerpt below from pg 261 is explaining the effects of USFWS's preferred alternative Alternative C upon Manatee habitat.


West Indian Manatee

Alternative C would likely do little to protect or conserve manatees. This is mainly because the

species is present 30 miles downstream of the southernmost Alternative C lands in the extreme lower

Kissimmee River and Lake Okeechobee. There may be some small water quality benefits by the

protection of 50,000 acres of land, and the 100,000-acre conservation easements, but there would be

other opportunities for water quality to be degraded after it leaves Alternative C lands an before it

reaches waters occupied by manatees.

Go to this link http://www.fws.gov/southeast/evergladesheadwaters/ (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/evergladesheadwaters/) clik it and then go to Environmental Assessment about half way down the page and clik that, then wait the few minutes it takes to open and go to pg 261 to see the above words in this US Government document for yourself.

This excerpt exposes "the water quality improvement portion" of the marketing strategy of the USFWS and ALL of their Partners to steal this $700,000,000 as an attempt to deceive everyone concerned about this bad idea.

Everybody reading this should copy and paste this post and send it to their US Congressman and US Senator so that they will never be able to use the excuse they didn't know that the Headwaters was a scam.

Thanks for caring enough to read this.

Gladesman

Public Hearings to be held on Headwaters.

 

These hearings are a bigger deal than previous meetings.

 

The key word is Hearing which means all comments are transcribed verbatim into the record of this bad idea.

 

Dates, places and times below:

 

Two public hearings have been scheduled.

 

One will be held 1-5 PM on Saturday, September 24th at the South Florida Community College Center for Performing Arts, 600 W. College Drive, Avon Park, Fl.

 

The second hearing will be held 1-5 PM on Saturday, October 1 at Osceola Heritage Park, Exhibition Building Hall A 1901 Osceola Trail, Kissimmee Fl. 34744.

 

Hopefully even more will attend these meetings than before.

 

The same opposition  messages need to be conveyed to USFWS whether u think this bad idea will hurt u or not if for no other reason than to reduce the amount of debt that will fall upon your children and grand children because of it if it proceeds forward. Headwaters type programs are what causes it.

 

This can be stopped if people stick together for at least this once in our lifetime.

Just a Reminder

The meetings mentioned in the previous post happen THIS Saturday in Avon Park and NEXT Saturday in Kissimmee.

These are meeting folks better be willing to skip a day of hunting, airboating etc. to attend so as to get rid of this chunk of FEDERAL CANCER coming to Central Florida.

Gladesman

Hearings such as the ones happening this Saturday in Avon Park and next Saturday in Kissimmee are a very very BIG Deal.

These Hearings are where USFWS will have court reporter types in the room with steno machines to produce verbatim transcripts of everyone's public statements to keep on record forever. They will not be allowed to para-phrase our statements as was done in earlier comments. These transcripts are amazing - if you scream your opposition they will note in the transcript that you were screaming. A transcript really puts the reader in the room as if they are there. That makes it important since elected officials who don't attend can be directed to these transcripts at a later date to gain a full understanding of how local people feel about this bad idea called Headwaters.

This is why it is so Important for our voices in the room to be many and loud. Danny B. style will work well.

If one doesn't quite know what to say "NO - Hell No" in many languages will work.

Please be willing to sacrifice one day to protect our heritage from this Federal Cancer.

Hearing Attendance is absolutely Critical to Defeating this bad idea.

The last sentence in bold in the quote is NOW wrong.

Having read some of the LPP it is evident our exposure of their intent to do this has caused USFWS to remove this Wilderness trick from their bag of tricks.

USFWS Partners are BEGGING/GROVELING for Headwaters Support


Partners of USFWS are begging from all quarters for us to back off and support their bad idea. Many emails have been flying today from very high altitudes requesting us to disregard the truth and our true values to support their bad idea.

 They will be offering many bones in the near future to try to entice and divide us but it is up to all of us who understand those offering the bones and crumbs today will NOT be around in the future to keep their promises so let them know there is NO SALE Here of the Headwaters.

 COMMENT   COMMENT    COMMENT    to EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov and let them know again. This is extremely important at this critical time during this Land Protection Plan comment cycle. Now is the time for all of us to gently squeeze our comment triggers to fire the comment shots needed to  kill this marauding Headwaters predator and rid ourselves of it once and for all.

 Even if the Feds truly wanted to keep their promises; their own laws, regulations, Presidential executive orders will prevent them doing so.

 On top of that the same type so called environmental/conservation organizations that have filed 2 lawsuits this week against hunters and ORV users in Big Cypress WILL be doing the same thing in the Kissimmee/Headwaters area.

 
A giant thanks to everyone in advance for helping because without your tireless efforts USFWS would get away with their bait and switch rip-off as they have before.

Please folks, send your comments to the link provided above. You'll know they received it when you get this;
Thank you for contacting us at the US Fish and Wildlife Service. We appreciate your interest in the proposed Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and Conservation Area. This response confirms that we have received your message. The Draft Land Protection Plan and Draft Environmental Assessment are currently available for public review and comment. Please visit our website for more information about this project, to get on the mailing list, or to view the proposed map and the draft documents: http://www.fws.gov/southeast/evergladesheadwaters/. (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/evergladesheadwaters/.) Comments are due on or before October 24, 2011.

Check the map, any recreation past hiking and birdwatching is at stake.  I personally would rather see the monies used for teachers, firefighters, law enforcement or heck, for OUR benefit, not to take even MORE land from our use.   This email was in my inbox this morning:

Comment Deadline Extended to November 25, 2011

The US Fish and Wildlife Service is pleased to announce the extension of the public review and comment period for the draft Land Protection Plan (LPP) and draft Environmental Assessment (EA) for the proposed Everglades Headwaters National Wildlife Refuge and Conservation Area. The October 24, 2011 comment deadline has been extended to November 25, 2011.

To ensure consideration of your comments in the development of the final LPP and EA, please ensure that we receive your comments on or before November 25, 2011. Comments may be emailed to us at EvergladesHeadwatersProposal@fws.gov; faxed to 321.861.1276; or mailed to Everglades Headwaters Proposal, PO Box 2683, Titusville, FL 32781-2683. Names and addresses should be included with comments, with the understanding that the material is subject to the federal Freedom of Information Act and may be released to the public upon request.

Copies of the documents and additional information are available online (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/evergladesheadwaters/ (http://www.fws.gov/southeast/evergladesheadwaters/)). Paper and/or CD copies of the documents can be requested by calling 321.861.0667.

Cheri M Ehrhardt, AICP
Natural Resource Planner

US Fish & Wildlife Service
PO Box 2683
Titusville, FL 32781-2683

Cheri_Ehrhardt@fws.gov
321.861.2368 office
321.861.1276 fax

DO NOT Miss Watching the live video feed from the Hearing noticed below by Congress.

Headwaters Will Be Discussed - Our People Will Testify See Below

 This Week -  This Thursday, November 3 feed starts at 9:50 a.m.

To watch go to this link and click on "Watch Live Hearings at 9:50 am this Thursday. Nov 3

Hearings
Subcommittee on Fisheries, Wildlife, Oceans and Insular Affairs Oversight Hearing on "Florida Everglades Restoration: What are the Priorities?"
Thursday, November 3, 2011 10:00 AM
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SUBCOMMITTEE ON FISHERIES,WILDLIFE, OCEANS AND INSULAR AFFAIRS
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Thursday, November 3, 2011
10:00 a.m.

OVERSIGHT HEARING ON:

    * "Florida Everglades Restoration: What are the Priorities?"

WITNESSES AND TESTIMONY:

Panel I

The Honorable Jo-Ellen Darcy
Assistant Secretary of the Army (Civil Works)
Department of Defense

Rachel Jacobson
Acting Assistant Secretary for Fish, Wildlife and Parks
Department of the Interior

Panel II

The Honorable William P. Horn
Past Member, National Academy of Science’s
Committee on Independent Scientific Review of Everglades Restoration Progress

The Honorable Rick Dantzler
Co-Chairman
Northern Everglades Alliance

Eric Draper
Executive Director
Audubon of Florida

Bishop Wright, Jr.
President
Florida Airboat Association

Jorge P. Gutierrez, Jr.
President
Everglades Coordinating Council

BACKGROUND:

The hearing will examine the impacts of the Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan, a component of the Water Resources Development Act. In 2000, Congress enacted the Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan as a component of the Water Resources Development Act, committing to spend at least $13.5 billion for the restoration of the Florida Everglades. To date, none of the 68 projects of the Comprehensive Restoration Plan are completed. Despite the fact that the Fish and Wildlife Service has an operations and maintenance backlog in excess of $3.4 billion, they plan to acquire 150,000 acres of land in Central Florida for inclusion within the National Wildlife Refuge System at a cost of more than $700 million. The focus of the hearing is to examine how the 150,000 acres acquired will contribute to the overall goal of restoring the Florida Everglades, how the Service intends to pay for the 150,000 acres it intends to acquire through fee titles and conservation easements, what assurances they will provide in terms of public access and wildlife dependent recreation within the refuge and conservation area, and how the four locally affected Florida counties will be compensated for lost tax revenues.

Any update? The threats remain and will never go away.  http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=7186 (http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=7186)
We must remain vigilant!

I'm not an owner yet. I was looking to buy a lot next year, how I can help? Maybe sending letters or e-mails to governor Scott or this is a strictly federal issue?