ATV Florida Forum

We are looking for land to get this thing going.  It is going to be around the Immokalee area most likely. It'll be a motoplex kind of a thing but further South for those of us who can't travel to Madison. So what kind of things would you like to see there? We are open to all kinds of suggestions.

would like to not see another park open. we already have 3 parks in south area fighting for people to come when they open on same dates and now u wanna make a 4th?


i rember when l cross and c and r where only ones open and you no what they both were slammed busy everytime they opend

now we have redneck yacht club. triple canopany ranches. and l cross and it makes nothing but hard decsion on where to ride.

so i say instead of opening  a atv park or what ever u should just go to park thats already open

if you can afford to do it then I say go for it.  Just keep it family friendly is my opinion.

The 3 places you named off have nothing in common with the Motoplex. They are pay to attend mudholes and that's it.

I think the OP is thinking of something with multiple motocross tracks, harescramble loops, rock garden, mudhole, flat track etc.

-Curtis-

I thnk that the hard core mud riders have plenty of places to go but if you open a park with tracks and hare scramble type courses, maybe hold sand drag races there is a lack of that kind of riding in south florida. Of course you need some mud too for those that like both.
 If you have not been to the Motoplex you should take the time to go. It is a great example of what a riding park should be.  The only thing that it lacks is hills but this is Florida so that is hard to come by.

If I was you I would contact Paul (owner of the Motoplex) and let him tell you some of the things you have to go through and deal with to run an ATV park.

Crom a zone- As much as I love mud, I like to do other kinds of riding as well. Trust me, I love the mudfest type of atmosphere but I believe there should be more diversity in a park.  L Cross does bring some of that to the table, but not as much as I would like to develop.  The motoplex is what I would like to model this after.

I will try and get ahold of Paul to get some advice and ideas. Thank you everyone! I will keep you all updated.

I wish someone would do that in eastern Central Florida.  That would nice :)

u asked for feedback and i just given some if u decide to do it good luck 

If you could get a hold of some property with a good amount of elevation changes and such and make your main "attraction" a national's style MX track, that would be awesome IMO. As far as I know, Hardrock is one of the only tracks in florida with nice elevation changes...for florida lol. I could be wrong though.  Harescramble trails would be awesome too. Especially if you throw some really difficult obstacles in there for more experienced riders! Good luck!

There's not much for elevation changes in south florida though.

Thank you for your input.

We are still looking for land, so this is not out of the question! I will also look in this area.

Between tampa and orlando would be ideal.  ;)

Hi Tori

I will happily pass on some of the things I have experienced since opening the Motoplex.

I think the best thing you can do, if you want your family to still like you, is to open up something else, like a Burger King or something. My wife still isn't talking to me lol. I won't harp on about the reasons, I wouldn't do it, as I don't want to come off like I am trying to stop you for selfish reasons (like additional competition), I will just say that if I had the offer of an azz whooping or an atv park 3 years ago, I wish I would have taken the azz whooping.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

That said there are some good things about it, you get to meet some nice people and have a great place for you and your friends to ride.

First off, how much land you looking at buying? That is quite important, if you don't buy enough you will suffer 2 problems, first off the locals will get bored with your place pretty quickly, second you have a problem drawing people from a greater distance if you don't have the acreage.

Oddest thing in the world to me is the amount of people who drive past my park to go to places like Durhamtown (for the sport guys) and say Creekbottom for the 4x4 guys. Both are great places and much bigger than mine, but we would love to expand. I am not going to expand unless we get more customers and without expanding we can't get more customers.

I really wish people would support us a bit more, the thought of sinking another few million gambling that a larger place is going to stop Florida based ATV riders from going out of state to ride is too risky. With just a few more customers......I would expand in a minute. Unfortunately, we are not going to expand until a few more people make the effort to support us. Durhamtown is a good 6 hours (12 hour round trip) north of us, but we still get members of this, and other sites driving right on past us to go there. If we got a little more support, everyone benefits, we get more business, and the riders get a larger aka Durhamtown sized atv park in the state they live in.

Moral of the rant....make sure your place is big enough from the start.

The next thing is location, once you have targeted your audience you need to figure out the best location. I am hundreds of miles from Croom and I still lose a lot of riders to it. I think it's 5,000 acres for like $60 a year or something. So if your targeting sport riders and you are going to build in the center of the state, make sure you have more than 5,000 acres and are cheaper than $60 per year.

If you are going for the mud guys give it a lot of thought. They seem to be broken down into 3 main categories (sorry for stereotyping anyone..no offense meant), first and biggest category IMO is the mud park guys (of which I have enjoyed being one on occasions), who enjoy drinking beer, looking at hooters & generally sitting on the side of a mud hole watching people in trucks and other atvs getting stuck. This is a massive market, one I don't have the facilities or desire to tap into.

There are also a number of mud racers, but truthfully, the days of putting up a few posters advertising a local mud bog and having thousands turn up, are over. There are a few organized race series, but truthfully the racers are so few and the payouts so large it is VERY hard to show a profit. The races work best if you have a large customer base coming to your events anyway and you just view the races as a distraction/show for your customers.

The third group are the people that just like riding in swampy conditions. Seems to be a much smaller group, but that is the group we really try to appeal to. We have had wars with wetland issues, fortunately we have hammered out a workable arrangement with our water management guys, but be warned, the further south you go, the worse they get. If you keep your water features on dry land and flood them yourself, this negates the wetland problems, but you need a lot of customers to justify turning on the pumps, this goes back to the category's above, you have to decide who you are trying to appeal to.

There are also groups of family riders, that don't like mx & don't like mud. They just like driving their atv's around. Truthfully it is going to be hard to snag them, it's pretty hard to compete (with these customers) with the national forests. They have hundreds of miles of trails. Bores the cr@p out of me, but some people love it. I tend to not try to hard to attract these riders, I am looking for the guys who don't like the ridiculous attempts the forestry guys are making to take all the fun out of riding atv's. Our place is small...but fun packed. If you are not going to buy a lot of land, try to think what makes the park fun.

Why do you want to combine riding styles, truthfully I wish I hadn't. People are very hard to please and if you are trying to please 2 separate groups, it is twice as hard. I wish I had chosen one or the other. I ride sports and 4x4's though, so it was natural for me, but like I said, my advice would be to pick one.

MX is another category, most mx riders ride dirt bikes. Dirt bikes hate quads. So if you have quads, you are going to alienate most of your potential customers (dirt bike riders). That doesn't mean you are not going to get mx riders, it just is something to think about.

Me personally, if I was going to open another park and I lived down south, I would open up a nice mx/trail facility..as far from Croom as possible. You might do well. Don't get swayed into opening up too far from your house, people asked why I built the motoplex so far north...simple answer, it's close to my house. I looked at land further away and I am glad after seeing how many trips I make between my house and the plex that I chose it.

The other main thing to look out for is making sure you can exist without camping or you get a place that is by city water and sewer. I am in the middle of a major battle with the Fl Health Dept about the need to have an RV Park License. It is going to cost about a 1/4 of a million to comply and that's with my little park (having just 50 RV style campsites)...I can't fathom how much it would cost for some of the bigger place like RNYC and Triple Canopy to comply, probably many millions. The states argument is that "free primitive camping" is in fact not free at all, but wrapped up in the gate fee. If they prevail, it's going to have some serious ramifications for the larger parks. I have none other than our favorite attorney/moderator slapping around the state guys, but who knows how it's going to end.

Anyway, you can always call me at (727) PlexMx2 if you have any specific questions...I would be delighted to help

paul, fyi croom is 2600 acres and thats some good advice you gave!  Environmental issues seem to be the biggest factor south of lake okeechobee where the everglades restoration project is going on. 

Thanks Jose   ;D

I hope to get that video we talked about!

Paul, I agree it sounds like great advice you gave. for the part about people going to Durhamtown instead of the plex here is my opinion. I belive its just a the dirt and change of pace for the sport guys. I have been up to the plex alot but a couple of times a year I have to do a Durhamtown trip. Its what keps it interesting and the diffrent terrain is nice also.

I understand Brian, and you are definitely a guy who rides a lot..all over the place. You sir are a good supporter of the motoplex.

I wasn't directing anything at guys like you, who like to ride all over the place. I reread my post and perhaps I could have worded it better.

I just wish a few more people who won't come because we are too small or whatever, made the trip, supported the place like you do...everyone who knows me, will know that we put EVERY dollar plus more that we take back into the Plex and make it bigger, better, cabins, hook-ups  etc and eventually we will all end up with better riding facilities in this state.

Sorry Recon didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Not that I know anything about atv parks, but I'd like to add something to some of the guys "rants"....I for one love to ride at the motoplex...I think Paul is a great guy and offers one heel-ova park for the riding experience. Now, with that being said, I also like what the other parks have to offer as far as being different. Each park has something different to offer the different types of riders not to mention the ability to meet other riders at the different parks too. I like the change of scenery from park to park....its makes riding more enjoyable and ya don't get bored of doing the same thing week in and week out.
Sooooo....if ya wanna open an atv park, GOOD LUCK!
Paul...keep up the good work at Motoplex sir...my son continues to bug the living pisss out of me every weekend about going riding..I am glad your park is one of my options for riding!!!!
Keith

to me, the biggest thing is location of riding area and size, i am a sport quad guy, i rarely get on an mx track but love trails and hare scrambles. Paul make some great points, but even those other riding areas he talks about (croom and durhamtown) the same people dont go every weekend to the same riding areas. people that go to croom (me included) also go to other areas, but i think the more centrally located you are to the better chance you have of drawing more people. for example. i live in lakeland, croom is a 2 hr round trip for me. i can shoot up there in the morning get a few hrs of riding in and be home before i get heat stroke. the more land you have the less chance you have of people getting bored with the riding area. also if you have enough property to hold a FTR santioned hare scramble, that is a great oppurtunity to make some extra cash, plus if you have a big mx track you can set yourself up within some race series within the state, but then there is the extra cost of equipment needed to maintain a mx track. IMO a off-road park is a high risk financial endevour, the thing about it is that once the land is purchased and even if the park fails you can alway resell the land to recoup some of your loses,

I think you should try and model a park like Durahamtown. If you build it they will come. You have to have cabins or rv camping i think to be successful. Durahamtown has something for everyone that is why so many people will pass the motoplex and drive that far. You have to appeal to everyone. If it was cheap you would see parks everywhere. It will take alot of acreage to get people to travel far distances. But the ameneties will keep them coming back. Even Croom has power in there campsites. I think the only thing that would be a added plus would be a nice swimming hole or pool for the whole family.  Havent been to the motplex yet. Seems to be for the mudder type.

The Motoplex is so much more than a mud park. It also has great trails and 4 MX tracks. there is something for every rider. Also I will be up there for the weekend coming this fri after work. cant wait.!!!

what time you headed up  :dunno.gif

We are definitely not just for the mudder type, for sport bikes and dirt bikes we have tons of one way trails all with jumps and big bermed corners, we groom these trails often to keep down the whoops. We have a BIG national caliber mx track, plus 3 other mx tracks, we have a drag strip.

Don't get me wrong...I love Durhamtown, been there many times prior to opening the plex, it has nice tracks and trails too, but we have things that they don't have too. This weekend, there will be 200~300 people who will all get together and have tons of kids and adult events, an xc race, 2 different mx races, drag races, a trophy ceremony (which all the winners and ALL the kids get trophies) then a group BBQ where everyone eats together. The trails are open all night, so a nice cool evening ride (which you can't do at many places) followed by some beverages with the new friends you made is awesome. Most of the guys here know each other and you will quickly become part of a big riding family.

Like I said, this build it and they will come statement is not exactly true...it takes a lot of work to get people to come and even more to get them to come back. Plus of course, this economy sucks, so while it might not seem the best time to do anything..it may be a good time to acquire property and start getting your feet wet. Just make sure you don't rely financially on the people saying they will be there all the time, many people intend too, but sell their bikes, start boating instead, move out of the area...there are a million reasons why the customer base is decreasing, and with the economy like it is, very few newbies are starting out. Like I said though, if you can financially stand low attendance, it's not a bad time to get things started.

Best part of all is like I said earlier, you meet some cool people, Brian, Keith, Matt & Matt, Pete  and many who commented are all good friends of the motoplex and pretty cool to hang out with. 

I get off of work at 5:00 so my wife and I should be heading up there by 6:00-6:30

build a big ol mudhole with minimal rules and u will fill the place   look at the semi annule mudfest before they went under they had people driving from all over the states   and it was amzing party and some crazy trucks running around

Rules are #1...

Enforcing those rules should be #2...

Nobody wants to bring their family someplace where people just run amuck.  Nobody wants to fell like they are in danger.  The biggest complaints you hear is speeding and wreckless driving, underage kids on bikes to big for them, and people with too much to drink.  These are all things that make people fill unsafe, and if they fell unsafe they will not return.

Make rules and enforce them.  Upsetting one or two people that can't cope with these rules is better then keeping families of responsible people from coming back.

see thats where i am wrong i guess i dont have kids, nor do i want them. thats y i love the 18 and up events because i dont wanna be rude drinkin and cussin and stuff wit kids around its just not good role modle to set for kids and thats my biggest thing with a place like ryc they have evrything same weekend and some like me that dont like kids akmost feels bad when kids are seeing what i do not that i do it on purpose i just am who i am and cant change that

so i guess another idea would make few event adult type events to so us older crowed can get rowdy and have alot of fun too

I wasn't just talking about kids.  A lot of adults feel the same way.  When some people's fun threatens other people's well being then something needs to be done.  It's too late after someone gets hurt.

I'm not pointing fingers, I never met you, you're probably a very nice guy.  But if the above represents you or anyone else on here then I would have a problem feeling safe around them. 

The main thing is; Have rules.  Most times if someone breaks the rules then a warning is sufficient, if that doesn't work then maybe a suspension from the property ( a time out ).  One or two things will happen.  The offenders will conform to the rules or the offenders will get fed up and not come back.  Overall everyone will be happier that the rules are in place.  If mellowing down for one event is too hard for someone so that everyone else can have a good time then maybe a place with rules is just not their place..?

Chaos will never work to keep a place where people will feel safe and come back again and again. 

Sorry if I hurt any feelings, that is not what this post was meant for.

I agree that there should be adult type weekends and there should also be family weekends. I would like this place to be open every weekend for general riding. But there will also be specialized events such as a Mudfest, adult weekends, concerts, childrens scavenger hunts and events. Hopefully there will be something for everyone because I see both sides.

Oh yeah... Acres of trails that allow UTVs.  I would love to ride croom.  The only legal riding areas around here are mudholes.  Us land lovers need a park too... :(

that is one reason you dont want to have drunkfest weekends. If you want to make a go of it, you have to be responsible. People who want to have a place to be reckless and wasted will mean it is just a matter of time before you get sued and shut down.
they can always go to Lcross and the underhills

well said :Clap.gif

Going into business for yourself is a big investment. (you may already know) You will miss the days of just going to work doing a good job and going home knowing you did a good job.  (at least I do)  Looking at it strictly from a business standpoint I don't think I would do it.  Seems to me a big liability with everyone being "sue" happy.  I know some places make you sign stuff to get in but from what I understand it wouldn't matter what you sign to get in.  The right attorney would still find the business liable.

With that said if you still want to try to do it.  I would go one extreme or the other, offer bare minimum or make it an hotel experience LOL

Good Luck what ever you decide to do!

Paul,
    The TBRD weekend was the first time I had been to the plex and I will be back often. To get back to the subject. My son has been riding for years, but never on tracks or long trails. The TT tracks are nice and close to the main parking. The trails are ONE way, Unlike Ocala were you have to worry about somebody coming around the corner at you. My family liked the trails and I liked multiple tracks. And paul just made me feel relaxed as did all of the riders and assistants. I had been debating were to take my family to go ridding since ocala got so overwhelmed. Key points multiple level MX tracks, one way trails, and family focused.

Paul wrapped it up nicely. AmpXtreme was on my family's property, I was a 1/4 interest owner in the business, and I dealt with the vast majority of all the BS personally that came from local municipalities, pissed off neighbors, nosy newspaper people, water management, etc.



There is money to be made in doing it, but there is A LOT to be lost from it as well. If you don't have hundreds of thousands in liquid assets sitting in the bank, don't even bother. Someone else with more friends in the right places and more money will squash you like a bug. And they wont even think twice about it. It was a very rewarding experience, and I met a lot of people that I never would have had the opportunity of doing before.

Thank you sir, it was good to meet you.



Hey Billy...how are you?

Billy is right, maybe someone somewhere is making money..but it is not as lucrative as you might think. We are lucky, we have hundreds of acres of pine trees we are growing, but if we viewed it strictly as an ATV park...I would have shut it down a long time ago. Right now, I have my trees growing, a really cool place to ride for myself and my friends and a small income to help offset some of the bills. If that is the way you are viewing it, then I say go for it.

Hey Paul,

I'm surviving. I do want to come over and ride sometime, I just never seem to get the time and have stuff running good enough at once. I'll get over there sometime. I miss riding on a real track a lot.


I loved having my track open. Its a very special and personal part of my life, but it also has made me a bitter @$$hole too. I grew up as a young teenager reading DirtWheels and all the other magazines and seeing names like John Natalie, Doug Gust, Joe Byrd,  Jason Dunkleberger, and then later on seeing names like Josh Creamer, Chad Wienen, Jeremy Lawson...I got to meet all of those guys. All of those guys rode at MY track. Want to talk about surreal? Grow up dreaming of having your own track and riding park and then take a stroll around the pits of a 170+ entry SSQSA race on YOUR property where you've grown up riding. Ground you've been across yourself a thousand times, I still get goose bumps thinking about it.

 I was just barely 19 years old when I got the permit for my track and I had just turned 23 when it was pretty much all finished up and "done". I learned a lot about having business partners, responsibilities that I didn't particularly want but HAD to deal with, how naive I was, how "business" is done in the real world (aka, grease my pocket, I'll make stuff happen for ya, wink wink wink, nudge nudge). I've been written about in the newspaper over a dozen times (Not nicely, either, I can assure you), had my name ran through the mud, watched people get hauled out in a meat wagon wondering if they were OK, Seen riders hit the dirt and get knocked out cold and my heart sinking wondering if they were alive or dead, had people stand up at a meeting of 200+ people and talk about how bad and "evil" my family is, that we ruined an entire corner of a county, compared to the trojan horse of troy. I've hired attorney's that quit because they knew they couldn't win, I've had county officials lie to me and the results cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. I've had 3 Foreclosures in the past 8 months.  My parents will be paying for it financially the rest of their lives and I will more than likely too.

Bad business decision? Probably. Not having the right friends in the right places? Probably. Made me an un-trusting not a very nice person of a person for the rest of my life? Probably.

Worth the pain and suffering? Wouldn't have it any other way.

"Build it and they will come" is a dream unless you have won the lottery or something. I may be wrong but Durhamtown was first a farm/plantation and successful high dollar hunt club. Their property, and this is a guess, was probably mostly already owned prior to the off road park. Sure it would be great for Paul to just throw up some nice cabins and have all kinds of amenities with a snap of a finger. But i don't think he has pile of $$$$ laying around (well he used to until he got addicted to sausage). I agree with the idea of LOTS of land to keep things interesting. I also agree with the further south you go the more the environmental aspect comes in to play and we all know how expensive that can be, heck get a price for a simple well or septic tank. Unfortunately one key to a successful park in Florida is to build it as far from people as possible, which in turn makes it harder to make it successful. Damned if ya do damned if ya don't.