ATV Florida Forum

I've been entertaining the idea of buying myself my first rifle. There were two models I was looking at specifically, the AR-15 and the M4. I've never shot either of the two before, but I hear they are both very reliable guns for the amateur owner. I probably wont be getting one for another couple months but I'd like to educate myself on the topic as much as possible to make sure I get the most bang for my buck (pun not intended?). Any websites where I could read up on the subject would be a great help. All it would really be used for will be trips to the shooting range, and blasting off a few clips at my buddy's property.

Any of you have experience with either guns? I'm open to other suggestions as well.

Thanks!
Jess

www.ar15.com

An M4 is an AR15. Just equipped differently and a shorter barrel. It's a carbine version essentially.

What are you planning on using the rifle for? That would help provide advice.

Check out the mini 14, fires a .223 round, a little on the heavy side compared to its other .223 brothers, but a nice rifle. AR-15's I've heard are awesome and I've also heard they are unreliable. They are wildly popular though and you have a TON of accessories. I believe FHP has the option of buying AR15 military hand downs. Do research and get plenty of opinions before you make your purchase and you should be happy with whatever you get. GL

If you decide that you like the M4/Ar-15 style , there are many companies that their own variations. For instance here are a couple that looks interesting....
http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/mr556_general.asp
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=69&productid=296

Great weapons. I've had BRD (Black Rifle Disease) for years now.

That's not the only disease he's got, but with all those rifles you can't make too much fun of him or you risk getting shot !  :D

Jacksonville Sherrif Department issues AR-15's...very nice and reliable gun!

Get a PS90.... ;D  you can get a Ar15 or a flat top M4 all day long, but the PS90 is getting hard to find. Cheaper to shoot, ammo is alway on the shelfs and way more fun to shoot. 

PS90 is definitely a neat gun. Can't argue with that at all.

I'm thinking about getting a plinker myself. Thinking about this one http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=66&productid=287
Sig quality and not bad on the check book to get one. Then the ammo is cheap  ;)

Any other suggestions for something in 22LR ?

Pinking is fun but to spend $650.00 on a 22lr ?  No way when you can buy a Ruger 10/22 for $179.99 at Walmart and more aftermarket parts then you can name. Anyway a 22lr sucks for Zombies. Get a PS90 the 5.7X28mm round is one nasty sucker. Just save me the brass ;) 

I have a few more substantial round rifles so I definitely want the cheap ammo of the 22lr to play with. I'll have to look into aftermarket parts for the 10/22 to see what the diff in price would be when it's all done. I found the Sig 22lr for under $500 so figured that was a good deal. Still looking around, no rush, just a toy.

look for a GSG5 (clone of a MP5) One of the best 22 I every own.

They got sue by HK few month back and are no longer imported in to the states as for 2010, but there are still some floating around.

each mag is 22 rounds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crk2Chne4dE

The GSG5 was one of my first considerations, but I've heard good and bad about them and thought the Sig would probably be a better quality, but I've never owned that model Sig either.

Has anyone had any experience with Stag Arms?  Just curious if they make quality rifles.

GSG5 are made in Germany with quality proof marks. I have a second gen model with over 5000 rounds thru the weapon without any problems.

Just of you information Sig are not what they use to be in quality. Triple S/N germany sigs are a lot better and worth more than ANY build in Exeter NH.

All my Sigs are Triple S/N (barrel, slide and frame) all three parts are fitted to the weapon, not the frame build in germany and the slide milled in Exeter. I even own a 1977 Browning BDA in 45acp which is the first P220 and the only weapon to have 3 counties on the slide, W Germany, USA and Canada.   

So triple s/n would be engraved into the parts? Reason I ask is I've always been a fan of the sg552, or I suppose now the better choice is the 553. Nothing beats quality, but is there a significant price change between the two? Thanks! Great thread!

SG 553 has one key advantage, the recoil spring is now wrapped around the piston rod like in the SG 550/551 models, which address several reliability issues encountered in the SG 552

I remember reading that on wikipedia. Now do those rifles (sg553) have an advantage over your other 5.56/.223 rifles? I'm doing research on it, but you guys know your stuff so I like first hand opinions as well. I would assume that they don't have nearly the same amount of support as the AR-15 does. My wifes dad just got a mini 14, and though they are nice, they are a little on the heavy side I think. Anyway, If I answer my own questions before you guys make it on the forum again, I'll post up.

Man, What a difference in price if you want a .223/5.56 compatible gun! Looking at weight, The Mini 14 is really only a pound heavier give or take a few ounces, which I guess could be significant, but I don't have enough experience in handling assault rifles to know. Too light and you'll lose accuracy, i know, but too heavy and the same will happen because of fatigue. But even on the light side, I think a 20rd mag will make up the difference lol.

OLYMPIC ARMS INC Model GI16 Rifle $758
Olympic Arms 30 + 1 223 Rem. Semi-Automatic w/16" Black Barrel/Collapsible
Identical to the Plinker Plus model. The GI-16 features an A2 forged upper with A1 rear sight, 16" button rifled barrel and M4 collapsible stock.
SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: GI16

Category: FIREARMS - TACTICAL RIFLES
Action :Semi-Automatic
Caliber :223 Remington
Bbl Length :16"
Capacity :30 + 1
Trigger :Single Stage
Safety :Thumb safety
OAL :31 3/4"
Weight :6.61 lbs
Stock :6 Point Collapsible
Finish :Black
^^AR15 knock off

RUGER & COMPANY INC Mini 14 Ranch/Mini 14 Tactical Rifles $713

Ruger 20 + 1 223 Rem. Mini 14 w/ATI Folding/Collapsible Stock

Rugers Mini 14 Ranch and Mini 14 Tactical autoloading rifles include a Garand style breech bolt locking system with a fixed pistol gas system and self cleaning moving gas cylinder. Ruger patented scope rings, adjustable sights, patented scope bases, non slip rubber buttpad, an instruction manual and gun lock are included in the standard accessories. Mini 14 Tactical includes a flash suppressor.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: 5846
Category: FIREARMS - RIFLES
Action :Semi-Automatic
Caliber :223 Remington
Barrel Length :16 1/8
Capacity :20 + 1
Trigger :Standard
Safety :Garand Type Safety
Length :38
Weight :8 lbs
Stock :ATI Folding/Collapsible
Finish :Blue

That olympic is a deal if the quality is up to par.

what do you guys think?

Get what you can afford. AR are a dime a dozen right now. My advise is to get a PS90 while you still can.  

If you do go with an AR, buy a good one. Not the cheap junk. I am a huge LMT fan. Absolutely the best AR on the market these days.

I agree with Ricky though, if you think you want a PS90, you better get it now.

Matt, we must be thinking the same thing about 5.7X28mm round. For years the store bought ammo has been water down to sh*t. First ATF ban sales of the SS190 ammo (saying it was a cop killer round) second came the SS192. Third they started to water down the SS195 (white box) ammo. Now all you can get is SS195LF and SS197SR sporting rounds. "Hell" you can get AP 223 all day long on the internet. Why the 5.7x28MM ammo? Because the PS90 holds 50 rounds no recoil in a small package and the FiveSeven pistol holds 20 rounds and shoots the same rounds. Matt, have you prices a 5.7 pistol lately? Soon 5.7 rounds will be ban for public sales completely. heres FN ammo site see for yourself

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/ammo.asp

Totally agree with you man.

 I have a Ruger mini 14 and a mini 30 (7.62x39). I've had them both for years and while not as cool looking for those that want to look like Rambo they are pretty neat guns. The mini 30 with quality soft point hunting rounds is a good short range deer/hog gun. I've also put quite a few hogs, gators, and cats to sleep with the mini 14.  I have a ton of FMJ ammo and high cap mags for both guns for zombie killin.
 

Zombie killin's a good feelin'.

I was in a local gun shop today taking a look at a few possibilities for a new toy and was told the GSG-5 was no longer being made due to the lawsuit with H&K. I heard about the suit, but thought they were still making and selling the GSG. Does anyone know if they are still making them ?

No more GSG5 come out of germany, but they still a few a around in the gun stores.

Prices for the used ones are going up every month.

I'd recommend photo #7; http://photo.newsweek.com/content/photo/2009/9/photos-weirdest-coolest-weapons-in-the-us-arsenal.html

Very cool pics

unlikely you going to be able to put that on a form 4, but very cool. Just buy a Ruger 10/22 and change the trigger group and barrel. It will out shoot any of the rifle you are looking for.

I went a gun store today somewhere in the middle of Hialeah to check out some prices, and I think I'm set on the AR-15, I'm deciding between bushmaster and Riverrock, but I'll probably get the Bushmaster. They had some really cheap prices on the good manufactures, however their store policy is 21+ to buy anything. I'm only 19 so they wouldn't let me walk out with a freshly bough rifle.


Quick question though, When I inquired about the M4 I was told that it's illegal to own one. However there is an AR-15 M4 style carbine that they've told me about. Any validity to that? I thought it was legal to own since it was a semi auto rifle.

Jesse, I post pictures later of both, but can own a M4 if the barrel is 16" and semi auto without going thru the Form 4 BS.

I forget what the real name for it is, but cabela's sells a, what I call gatlin trigger for the 10/22 ruger. I forget how many rounds it fires per-rotation, but you should search around on YouTube and find the demo's if you don't know what it is already. Bought one for my Father-in-law a while back and he loves it.  ;D

That is technically correct.  The "M4" manufactured by Colt for the military is a select fire weapon (full auto or 3 round burst) and you cannot own with out the proper licensing.  You can buy an AR15 (semi-auto only ) in an "M4" configuration.  Every thing but the receiver will be the same.

Barrel carrier is different to.....  ;D

i wills ell my gsg5 just make me an offer gun shoots sooooo smooth

I did some research and made my decision. I had to do some looking to find one with the flash hider so it's threaded if I ever wanted to add a suppressor.  ;)
Found a great new dealer to work with in the process. Low prices, family owned, and they make a donation from every sale to charity (a % of the profit goes to All Childrens).

Nice S&W M&P15-22.

exactly. I considered several others, but really liked what the S&W had to offer, including the price. Got it for well under MSRP out the door.

You need to have a custom thread adapter for it the normal 22 cans have 1/2 x 28 by .400 threads. Also no sub sonic ammo and Remington thunderbolt will feed thru the S&W without jamming, they like federals and CCI.  
 

;)
  

ya found out the gsg does not like remington thunderbolt either

Yeah it even says in the manual that you can't use subsonic ammo and they don't recommend Remington. I'm fine with that. I know it has a 1/2 x 28 thread on the barrel. may have to start looking around. I plan on going to shoot it early next week. See how it does then.

if it as 1/2 x 28 threads, then all 22 cans we fit. But make sure the depth is .400

good luck with your new toy

thanks,

Now does anyone have a good place to buy some bulk , high grade, 22 lr ammo ?  8)

here is what S&W recommend for this rifle:

• CCI Standard Velocity • Federal American Eagle
• CCI Mini-Mag • Federal GameShock
• CCI Stinger • Winchester Super-X High Velocity
• Aguila Super Extra High Velocity • Aguila Super Extra Std. Velocity


and they specifically suggest NOT using this:

• Remington Golden Bullet • Remington Thunderbolt
• Remington Target 22 • Winchester Wildcat
• Any and all sub-sonic brands and types

I dont think you going to find value packs at wal-mart for a few more months ;) 

Try Pro brass shop as CCI, but 100 packs. You can use Remington GOLD BULLETS on your rifle without jamming, just dirty stuff.

ive got a bunch of value packs  ;) just gota look at every walmart you pass ... if you havent bought it yet i would skip on the M&P and but a dedicated .22 upper and a lower that way you can swap calibers down the road .... BRD is a bad thing and its not if you catch it .... in when

We need to start a BRD support group.

I have a disease, and the only cure is more COW BELL! (sorry, I just couldn't resist)

OK I'll bite... "BRD" ?

Buy,

Its my understanding that BRD stands for Black Rifle Disease.

thanks

 ;) lol

point taken, but all I saw was Anoriginal write the word disease and that was enough for the response  ;)

That and a "waiting for a stamp" support group ... these wait times are killing me

I've heard they can take a while. How long have you been waiting ?

lol it seams like im always waiting ... got two out right now and i think its been about a month ... getting ready to send out another one here soon