ATV Florida Forum

President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on terrorism. But the
mistake was not his decision to go to war in Iraq. Bush's mistake came in his belief that this country is the same one his father fought for in WII.
It is not. Back then, they had just come out of a vicious depression. The country was steeled by the hardship of that depression, but they still believed fervently in this country. They knew that the people had elected their leaders, so it was the people's duty to back those leaders.
Therefore, when the war broke out the people came together, rallied behind, and stuck with their leaders, whether they had voted for them or not or whether the war was going badly or not. And war was just as distasteful and the anguish just as great then as it is today. Often there were more casualties in one day in WWII than we have had in the entire Iraq war. But that did not matter. The people stuck with the President because it was their patriotic duty. Americans put aside their differences in WWII and worked together to win that war.

Everyone from every strata of society, from young to old pitched in. Small children pulled little wagons around to gather scrap metal for the war effort. Grade school students saved their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds to help the effort.

Men who were too old or medically 4F lied about their age or condition trying their best to join the military.

Women doubled their work to keep things going at home. Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap, to butter was imposed, yet there was very little complaining.

You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling the President. Interestingly enough in those days there were no fat cat actors and entertainers who ran off to visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and complain to them about our President. Instead, they made upbeat films and entertained our troops to help the troops' morale. And a bunch even enlisted. And imagine this: Teachers in schools actually started the day off with a Pledge of Allegiance, and with prayers for our country and our troops!

Back then, no newspaper would have dared point out certain weak spots in our cities where bombs could be set off to cause the maximum damage. No newspaper would have dared complain about what we were doing to catch spies. A newspaper would have been laughed out of existence if it had complained that German or Japanese soldiers were being 'tortured' by being forced to wear women's underwear, or subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being scared by a dog or did not have air conditioning.

There were a lot of things different back then. We were not subjected to a constant bombardment of pornography, perversion and promiscuity in movies or on radio. We did not have legions of crack heads, dope pushers and armed gangs roaming our streets.

No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling of terrorism. He made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and fortitude of our fathers. He believed that this was still the country that our fathers fought so dearly to preserve.

It is not the same country. It is now a cross between Sodom and Gomorra and the land of Oz. We did unite for a short while after 9/11, but our attitude changed when we found out that defending our country would require some sacrifices.

We are in great danger. The terrorists are fanatic Muslims. They believe that it is okay, even their duty, to kill anyone who will not convert to Islam. It has been estimated that about one third or over three hundred million Muslims are sympathetic to the terrorists cause... Hitler and Tojo combined did not have nearly that many potential recruits. So... We either win it - or lose it - and you ain't gonna like losing.

America is not at war. The George Bush's military is at war. America is at the mall, or watching the movie stars, zooming around in exotic fast cars, looking up to sports stars with jail records, whining because the government doen't do enough for them, busy trying to give away somebody elses money.... !!!!!.

(Remember Obama said in his book 'Audacity of Hope', 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction'.....what better place for the Muslins to control our country, than in the office of the President of USA .)

Well put, and unfortunatly very true.

im not sure who was president at the start of WWII but i wish he were back in office we took care of japan the same way we shoulda done iraq/afghanistan i want a president whos middle eastern war policy is kill em all and let God sort em out >:(

At the start Roosevelt and then Truman. 

It is disheartining that such a large number of US citizens are not even on our side and sympathize with the enemy.

well i guess roosevelt was the one who was in office then when they bombed hiroshima and those other cities lol

Well spoken Big Daddy,I never looked at it from that angle.

 :ThumbsUp.gif :ThumbsUp.gif

Thats the damn truth!

Amen to that!!

I say AMEN, and AMEN....  Awesome post BigDaddy.... 

I would like to also add, back then, they didn't have Bills on the Senate indicating it was crime to descrate the American Flag, and the current Democratic running for President, voted NO against protecting the American Flag, but voted YES to allow illegial immigrants to access OUR Social Security, and at the same time, his wife,who could be the first lady of this Great Nation, say...  "this is the first time I am proud to be an American"....  Yea baby, we have come along way....

Yea, ole Barrack Hussiem Obama, I support my muslim friends, and that was after they beheaded innocent civilians...... >:(

its all the tree huggers  that wont let   bush do what he gotta do  we need to get ride of all the muslims  and then we will be good   

Sounds almost like we were a communist or a foreign country back then. At least we have the right to disagree now, instead of believing what ever the gov. tells us.

Well its that attitude that we were being told to do it, well the thing was, we were not told to do whatever the government told us, but the fact that we stood up on our own and backed up our country, not doing it just because we have to.

Great post bigD.
Many young people today don't want to study history, to busy.............

i dont stand  up now because its  not worth it.  i am  minority in my own country.   i pay taxes i got job i pay bills  and i get no help from gov,  the people who dont work or anything get food stamps and everything else  for what so they put there car on 26inch rims

Actually, Roosevelt was a democrat as was Truman and it was Truman that gave the order to drop the bomb.

Where did you get your thread you posted Big Daddy because I do not believe you wrote that.  Also I noticed a half quote where some important parts of the quote were left out.  The republican party is noted for out right lies and half truths I hope you are not following down this path.

http://snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp  go to the bottom of the page where is addresses this issue.  I don't mind people posting there opinions but the posting of  half truths just does not cut it.   I could easily post some partial quotes of your savior McCain but I won't stoop that low..........yet  ;D.

Fish, It was obviously not written by BD, for a couple reasons :lecture.gif :lecture.gif. BUT, the point is very clear. The liberal Dems are not the same democratic party from years past. They are not working for the good of this country and fools like you are drinking the cool aid. Fast forward history to a liberal democratic country in a few years and you will be waiting for Al Quida to come through your front door and cut off your head.

A strong military prepared to take on the terrorists where ever they are, is in the best interest of this country.

I can see Obama taking the Oath in his traditional Muslim Garb and putting his hand on the Quaran.

The libs better pull there heads out of there arse's and wake the hell up.


That ought to fire em up.
       

Regardless of who wrote it, that's an excellent post BigDaddy.

x2 so true

:bow.gif :bow.gif :bow.gif

Your drinking the cool aide comment won't work here, that has been a republican talking point for months we have moved past that, stay with the times.

The rest of your comments would make since if they were only true.  Even your beloved president GW has admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 and the dems and most of the country want our troops out of Iraq.  No one ever mentions getting our troops out of Afghanistan because that is where the war on terror is actually being fought but without enough troops or supplies because Iraq has all the troops.

I might have a little more respect for the oh so moral republican contingent here or anywhere else if they could only tell the truth.  You know as well as I do that  Obama is a christian and when he is sworn in it will be on a bible (I won't hold that against him.  From what I have seen of the so called christians on this site and others they don't hold the moral high ground but they do top the hypocrisy heap.).

You are the one that needs to pull your head out of your arse, I suppose the economy, wall street, fuel prices and home market are doing well on your end of the country?  Have your seen the inflation numbers lately or how about unemployment?

So fish, let me ask you few  questions... 

What is your stand on Social Security... 
A.  Illegal Immigrants should have access to our Social Security.
B.  Only Citizens should have access to our Social Security.

Stand on Partial Birth Abortion:
A.  Should be legal
B.  Should not be legal

What is your stand on the "Right To Bear Arms".
A.  Should be Constitutional Right of this Country's Citizens.
B.  Should not to be a Consitutional Right of American Citizens, w/the exception of Retired Police.

What is your stand on Global Proverty?
A.  Should we require the US President to allocate 87 Billion dollars to other countries for proverty;
B.  We should not.

What is your stand on the English Language?
A.  Should the English Language be the Official language of the United States Goverment
B.  Should it not...

Well I feel for now that is enough questions, for now..

Honestly you have the right to answer as you see yourself.  And Honestly if you answer one way, then yea, Obama is your man.  If you answer another way, well then perhaps you should really do a little research on the Senate Bills that have been voted on for the past few years...  A man's word, when it comes to politics means NOTHING, what he or she has stood for, well that is what I look at...

Please don't answer me w/a question, I would like to know the answers to these questions.  Once you answer these questions, I would love to share my answers with you...  I really don't think, or I hope, that they would be much different. 

If you want a yes or no answer from me on those questions it's not going to happen except for.

Yes, the english language should be the official language of the govt and only citizens should have access to social security.

The rest of those questions have too many variables.

But to me, those questions are not near important as other issues going on right now like the war in Iraq, the economy and this countries slide to the right with this administration.   After 8 years of this yahoo GW I'll take any one over another republican right now but for republican McSame is least objectionable.

I think Sara Palin should be the president and Cheropride the vice president. ;D.
 Fish there are no variables in her questions, you either believe it right to kill babies or you dont. You either believe it is the right of every American to own ANY type of arms that he sees fit or you think the population should be disarmed.
 We also are winning the war in Iraq, and every dead Muslim extremist (no matter what country we kill them in) is one that won't come here and wont attack us again.

Excellent point Chillin. And if anyone thinks were not winning the war on terror than their sadly mistaken. In my opinion GW should be characterized as a hero for taking the strong stance he has on the war. What were we supposed to do after 911,sit back and say "one more time and you're going to get it"? I have no problem with the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction found. And whether Bush knew that fact or was ill advised doesn't matter to me either.We needed to make a stand and we did.We would be MUCH worse off had we not acted immediately after the attack. It's the anti goverment,anti religion,anti republican attitudes that are contributing to the sad state of affairs we are currently in. To think that there are some that really believe Obama is a practicing Christian amazes me. Talk about people with blinders on. Notice how you have these Democratic supporters that like to bash McCain or ridicule him regarding his age? I'm yet to hear one compliment him for his service to our country.Than these same people bash Palin for her experience. You never here them praise her for her accomplisments. They are the ones with their heads up their arses. Their only valid argument in my opinion is Obamas plans on resurecting the economy. I don't think Obama has a clue but I would at least entertain that argument. His agenda is to raise the economic status of the lower income / minority families and to cater to anyone of Islamic faith. OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE. You can use the economy as an excuse to back Obama all you want but if we don't continue to support our current president as well as McCain and keep pressure on the terrorists than the economy will be the least of our worries. Dont jeopardize our freedom with your votes because you have anti goverment or anti religious beliefs. It's all right in front of you. USE YOUR COMMON SENSE. The name itself was your first clue. Barack Obama? His back ground.His religous up bringing.His stance on showing respect to our anthem and flag.His statements in his book. I could go on and on but I'm sure the same select few will continue to ignore the obvious. I'm telling everyone that will listen. If you want to secure your freedom and are concerned for the well being of your children than you need to vote for McCain. Don't just count on your lone vote and have the "I did what I could do " attitude. Be persuasive and get everyone you know to vote for McCain so we can sleep sound at night. I'm Cableguy1 and I support this message.

So Chillin your in favor of convicted felons owning guns?   And yes, abortion should be legal until all you right wing conservatives start adapting all the kids growing up in the system

Of course things are different now. People are more educated, more informed, and more observant about what’s going on with their government and society. President Bush just flat out blew it. He had the support of everyone in this country and we all knew he had to strike back after 9/11. He was supposed to get the man who perpetrated the attacks! Remember that guy named Osama? Everyone was ALL for that and this is the person he was supposed to go after! So tell me, how is it that we are the strongest military in the world and we still can’t capture a man that is reported to be on dialyses! We have some of the most advanced military technology in the world and yet this extremist still eludes us. This war in Iraq is just a pointless and endless war. Go tell the mother that lost both of her sons in this unnecessary war that they died for a good cause. Why else do you think that the people enlisting in military services has gone down significantly? Because people are realizing that this war we are fighting is absurd and they don’t want to lose their lives over something that has no purpose. People keep saying, “We are winning the war in Iraq”. How? What do you think will happen when the troops finally pull out? It is going to go back to the same way it was before the U.S. got there because our military will no longer be there to enforce anything. You can’t govern people that don’t want to be governed and surely you can’t govern a country from thousands of miles away. So in the end you end up with countless lives lost in an absurd war, an economy that is now 9 trillion dollars in dept, homes foreclosing at an all-time rate, unemployment that is skyrocketing through the roof, people watching their life savings go up in smoke, cooperate scandals at an all time high, the U.S. indebted to China because we keep borrowing money from them, gas prices out of control, crime on the rise, Mom and Pop to big businesses going under……the list goes on and on.  People didn’t turn their backs on the President because they just “felt like it”. People turned their backs on him because a lot of people feel he turned his back on them.

Obviously felons shouldn't have guns.
 These kids of the system  that you are refering to are primarily offspring of minorities that live off of entitlements that democrats love to hand out.
  This is 2008, I think most everyone knows how children are concieved. There are many ways to prevent having an unplanned child. Abortion is NOT a form of birth control and if it were illegal maybe these mothers would use other forms of birth control.  I have 3 children that I love more than anything and no one will ever convince me that aborting a child OK. How do the doctors that perform these procedures sleep at night? Lucky for them they were not sucked out of their mothers uterus.

 As far as people calling the war absurd. I dont really consider that we are at war WITH Iraq. We are at war IN Iraq. This is a big deal, these extremist want us to die. I dont care where we fight them but they must know that we wont be the easy target that they think we are.
 Osama may not be locked up in a prison but he is holed up in a cave. I would bet the conditions in a prison (air conditioning, hot running water, food,etc) would be more comfortable than where he is living.
  Todays world is not a place to show weakness. There are threats from everywhere... Russia, China, Iran, and terrorists in many other small countries including within our own borders. We need to stick together as a nation and be strong.
 Did George Bush do everything right? No, but you cannot blame EVERYTHING on him. I voted for him in 04 and I dont regret it. 

First in regards to the abortion question, this aint even to bring an end to abortion, it is to banned parial birth abortion.  Partial Birth, which means the child is over 9 weeks, and in most cases well over 9 weeks, like up to six months...  To get into it here, is to graphic and to painful.  But it means that, the woman gives birth, and the child is killed while is basically outside of the womb..  THAT IS MURDER, regardless of you stand on abortion.

As for the economy, rasing taxes is not going to help the economy, and if you Obama is not going to raise taxes, well they ppl are not listening to what he is saying, and ppl are not researching how he has voted. 
Here is some of his plans for the economy.....
*He wants more welfare benefits for the poor, he has sponsored bills and voted on bills just for that. 
*How is allowing non-citizens to access OUR Social Security going to help this Country's economy. 
*Providing grants to illegal alliens to gives medical coverage, educational and housing funding.
*Global Proverty Act - $87 Billion per year
*We should bring even more immigrants into this country so they can work (hello, there is not enough work for the ppl that are here)
*Wants National Medical Coverage, for every cititzen and non-citizen...  While Medicare and Medicaid are already in the whole, it has been projected at the current rate, Medicare/Medicaid will be bankrupt by 2011.

I could go on and on.  This all means higher taxes for all of us.  His stance is every person deserves to live as everyone else.  So we take more taxes, and give it to the needy...  Ah, trust me, we are not the recipicants of that.  And yes, he does want to tax the so-called rich extremly more, this will even more impact Trading and the Stock Market. 

Now your saying "Obviously felons shouldn't have guns", so I guess it is not a yes or no question?  As I stated before the answer to all your questions won't be answered by me with a yes or no and anyone who answers them that way does not know what the hell they are talking about.

I guess taking close to a $1,000,000,000,000.00 in debt like we did this weekend won't cause taxes to go up.  As a matter of fact I think if you add up all the debt we took on in the last few weeks in these bail outs the actual amount will be closer to $1,500,000,000,000.00.

Yea, again you are right....

I clearly remember this "change campaign", I say it was about what 2 years ago, when the Repulicans had control of Congress...  And all the Democrats were promising CHANGE...  Yea, that's some change, 2 years later, we have Democratic Congress...  Wow if this was the change they were talking about, they can keep the change...  I know for a fact, financially I was much better off.  My business was doing good, my house was worth about $100,000 than it is today...  Well, last year lost the business, and this year my house has lost values, banks are going under....  Yea, wow, love that change... 

Congress has more control over the Economy than the President, and think Congress has done a wonderful job!  Just as Obama said today in Orlando, some 60,000 people have lost their job in the past YEAR.... 

Yea, lets bring on some more of that change...

But yea, here's the man you want to vote for, and I quote: 

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, i chose my friends carefully.  The more politically active black students.  The foreign students.  The Chicanos." (Ah, little racist ya think, let's see let me choose my friends based upon their race, so ppl don't think I am a sell-out);  "The Marxist professors (yea there's someone some great political no-how) and structural feminsits (oh God helps all).  "After all, there were thousands of so-called campus radicals, most them white and tenured and happily tolerant." (wow there's a statement).  No, it remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to stike out and names names.
Barack Hussein Obama, Dreams of My Father....

Wow those are some dreams....  do you self a favor, go buy his Book and read it for yourself... 

If congress has so much control like you said then why are our troops still in Iraq?  The reason is simple, it's called presidential veto.  The bill must pass with a certain percantage of votes (and off hand I am not sure what that percentage is) to escape the chance of a presidential veto.  The dems have a slim margin in the house and senate but not enough to push bills past the president.  What does this mean to you and me, it means that the dems have to work with the republicans to get anything passed . 

For the 1st 6 years of the Bushs disaster of a presidency the republicans had control of the house and senate and the white house so they pretty much could do as they wish which is why we are where we are today.  If you think the financial mess we are in happend in the last 2 years then you are so very naive.

Here is something ironic to add to your comment, why are troops still over there....

1st your buddy Obama, states it was mistake, now he's saying the Surge was a success.  Ah, can't have a Surge, w/our troops being there. 

Besides troop discussion other topic. lets stay on point...

WHAT HAS THE DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS CHANGED???????

What SPECIFIC BILLS did Pres Bush VETO...

As of May 2008, President Bush has vetoed only 10 bills since taking office in January 2001; only one occurred before Democrats took control of Congress in January 2007. This is the fewest of any modern President; in March 2006 Bush set a 200 year veto record. Source: US Senate.

1. Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005
H.R. 810.
To amend the Public Health Service Act to provide for human embryonic stem cell research.

Veto Date: 19 July 2006

This was President Bush's first veto since taking office in January 2001. Presidential Message - pdf

The House sustained the veto on Jul 19 by vote No. 388 (235-193).

From About: Bush Position on HR 810 - Stem Cell Research and Bush Threatens Veto.


2. US Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability
HR 1591
Making emergency supplemental appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2007, and for other purposes.

Veto Date: 1 May 2007
President Bush vetoed the bill primarily because of the provisions on Iraq. Presidential Message

The House sustained the veto on May 2 by vote No. 276 (222-203).

From About: Why Bush Should Veto the Iraq War Budget 3. Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007
S 5


Veto Date: 20 June 2007 - Unchallenged by Congress
President Bush vetoed a second stem cell research bill. Presidential Message

From About: Bush Vetos Stem Cell Bill. Again. 4. Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007
HR 976
Would have extended and expanded SCHIP.

Veto Date: 3 October 2007
Presidential Message

The House sustained the veto on Oct 18 on vote No. 982 (273-156).

From About: Does This Truly Represent the State of Politics in America? and Battle Over Insuring Children. See who voted against HR 976.5. Water Resources Development Act of 2007
HR 1495
To provide for the conservation and development of water and related resources, to authorize the Secretary of the Army to construct various projects for improvements to rivers and harbors of the United States, and for other purposes.

Veto Date: 2 November 2007; Veto Over-Ridden
The House voted to override the veto on 6 November on vote 1040 (361-54).
The Senate voted to override the veto on 8 November on vote No. 406 (79-14).

Presidential Message.

From About: Congress Poised For First Veto Override6. Appropriations: Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, 2008
HR 3043
Making appropriations for the Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2008, and for other purposes.

Veto date: 13 November 2007
Presidential Message (PDF)

The House sustained the veto on Nov 15 on vote No. 1122 (277-141).7. Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007
HR 3963
To amend title XXI of the Social Security Act to extend and improve the Children's Health Insurance Program, and for other purposes.

Veto date: 12 December 2007
Presidential Message (PDF)

The House sustained the veto on Jan 23, 2008 by vote No. 22 (260-152).8. National Defense Authorization Act for FY2008
HR 1585
To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2008 for military activities of the Department of Defense, for military construction, and for defense activities of the Department of Energy, to prescribe military personnel strengths for such fiscal year, and for other purposes.

Veto Date: 28 December 2007
Jan 15, 2008 — Referred to House Armed Services Committee
Memorandum (PDF) 9. Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008
HR 2082
To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2008 for intelligence and intelligence-related activities of the United States Government, the Community Management Account, and the Central Intelligence Agency Retirement and Disability System, and for other purposes.

Veto Date: 8 March 2008
Presidential Message (pdf)

The House sustained the veto on 11 March 2008 by vote No. 117 (225-188). 10. Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008
HR 2419
To provide for the continuation of agricultural programs through fiscal year 2012, and for other purposes.

Veto Date: 21 May 2008; Veto Over-Ridden
Presidential Message

The House over-rode the veto on 12 May on vote No. 346 (316-108). The Senate over-rode the veto on 22 May on vote No. 140 (82-13).
11. Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008
HR 6124
To provide for the continuation of agricultural and other programs of the Department of Agriculture through fiscal year 2012, and for other purposes.

Veto Date: 18 June 2008; Veto Over-Ridden
Presidential Message (pdf)

The House over-rode the veto on 18 June on vote No. 417 (317-109). The Senate over-rode the veto on 18 June on vote No. 151 (80-14)..
12. Medicare Improvement for Patients and Providers Act of 2008
HR 6331
To amend titles XVIII and XIX of the Social Security Act to extend expiring provisions under the Medicare Program, to improve beneficiary access to preventive and mental health services, to enhance low-income benefit programs, and to maintain access to care in rural areas, including pharmacy access, and for other purposes.

Veto Date: 15 July 2008; Veto Over-Ridden
Presidential Message

The House over-rode the veto on 15 July on vote No. 491 (383-41). The Senate over-rode the veto on 15 July on vote No. 177 (70-26).

the veto pen seems to have started working more when the dems took over congress...hmmmmmm.

I would also like to add, that Congress has the sole power to tax and appropriate fund, not the president.

Furthermore, did you know, that the Bush Tax cuts are set to expire in 2010. 

Funny how know one will admit that the Democratic Congress has increased the deficit even further since gaining power 2 years ago...  Also when Clinton took office, the economy was growing, when he life it was in a recession... 

Obama is clear he wants to raise taxes....

more tax breaks and more stimulus check plans will definitely boost this here hurting economy.  Just to clue in a repub reading this, that was all sarcasm-because, uh that dudn't work folks.  Of course the current tax plans will change because they need to. 

Regardless of your political affiliation, Demo/Reb... 

How can someone, that takes a long hard look at Obama, really want him as President.   Fishaholic, did you even view the YouTube Post, those were his own words, this is a man you want leading this Country.  That states in his book, "In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, have a more urgent quality"...  Ah what.  Not the victims of 9/11, not the fact that this Country could very well be attacked again....

As so pointed out on the video...  He's states' ah, well, while I was in Church, ah he never preached that.  And goes onto say his Grandmother is afraid of just a passing African American on the street.  It is not because he is black that brought race into this election, it is him, Barrack Obama who brought race into this election. 

He writes in his book, and gets away with it.... Read these words carefully.  He wrote them....  "I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race". 

People look at that sentence that is huge.  And this ain't just passing conversation he had w/someone.  He wrote these in a book...  What he is saying, is he found peace in nurturing the grievance and animosity (hate) against the white race.  Dude, that is wrong about any race.  If someone told me they found peace in nurturing hatred against African Americans, or anyone for that matter, I would say, you are one sick puppy.  Then he calls him self a Christian.  He is an Extremist, he is the Malcolm X of our generation, and he might just be our President.  If that don't scare the crap out of you, nothing will..  And it should really make you wonder how the heck did he get so far.

Democrat/Republican, I could care less.  But it also makes me wonder more about the Democratic Party to come out and endorse him, know where he stands.  It has to make one wonder....

He says wasn't in Church the day the Rev Wright preached that stuff....  Every video I have seen, Rev Wright has something else on, unless he goes back and changes every 10 minutes, those are a variety of sermons.  One does not preach stuff like that one day, and then next preach on love thy neighbor.  Obama has quoted a direct link to one of the Sermons he says he wasn't at, you know the where we bombed Hiroshima, then you go find the video, and their is that same sermon, but goes onto say that US Gov blew up the World Trade Centers, and also invented HIV to take out the black man....  Wow, that is scarey.... Also goes on to say the US Gov caused Katrina....  Hello.....

Wake up America.  Sure change may be what you want, but what cost, and what is the change he so passionately speaks off.  What thoughts really run thru his mind..... 

:Clap.gif :Clap.gif :Clap.gif

Please get your facts right before you spread negative lies like that. I have read Obama's book and John Mcain's book as well because I want to be informed about the next potential President. The quote you stated is NOT in his book and was actually lifted from an article in the American Conservative. Obama never wrote those words. The author that wrote the article did. Those are the facts.

He has not had to veto any bill that I remember but that is not the point, the dems know that he can and will veto a bill he does not like.  Why would they put thru a bill they know he is going to veto?  They work with the republicans to pass a bill that both sides can live with.
The point is your blaming everything on the dems because they control congress but they only have a slim majority and cannot do whatever they like, hence the reason we are still spending billions of dollars a month in Iraq.

Oh really okay...  Then do this, got onto any search in, and type that statement in, and see how many freakin times it comes up....  No I did not buy his book, but I have also heard this on an audio book, and it's his voice, it his words.

The weak minded believe everything they want to hear.  http://snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp  abouut 1/3 of the way down read and weep

I guess this ain't him either...... :o

That's an old one too.  I can't find the article about that one but I know I saw one recently.  Those clothes he has on are not even muslim garb like you are trying to imply, I believe they are of African decent and not all Africans are muslim but they are almost just as bad they are christians.

If you want to argue about Obama that is fine but lets not use lies and half truths like you have been doing, try to stick with the facts.

Funny how there's excuse for everything this guy does and says... 

I guess too, this ain't his voice, and if so, I guess you are also going to tell me, there are nothing racial about it....  But then again, you read the book....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI77cU3jsFs&feature=related

(http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/c/G/2/mcdesperate.jpg)

Mchopenot  :)

So perhaps you like this better....

(Click on the picture to make it Larger)....

Oh, and cause I am sure you will ask me, where do you get your information, it's so wrong.... 

Check it out yourself, and I encourage any who hunts, and/or believes in their 2nd Amendment Rights, to check it out as well...

http://www.nraila.org/barackobama/barackobama4.htm?gclid=CKf2gqSp7ZUCFQFqxwodXX_GfA

(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/25r30wi.gif)(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/25r30wi.gif)(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/25r30wi.gif) , that is too funny.  Who is dumb enough to believe that idiotic picture you posted when comes from the NRA.  You try to act like your such a great american but yet you must support an orginazation that called federal officers "Jack Booted Thugs" because they raided some crazy right wingers compound.

Your weak and your lies and scare tactics won't work with anyone with above average intelligence.  Now, the average home grown republican that sits around and waits for someone to tell them who to vote for your crap your spreading will work.

anything to get one more vote......
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3679/obamaid8.jpg)

OMG YOU ARE A TRIP....  I even gave the web-site..... :dunno.gif :dunno.gif :dunno.gif

Here let me give it to again, take a look for yourself.....

http://www.nraila.org/barackobama/barackobama4.htm?gclid=CKf2gqSp7ZUCFQFqxwodXX_GfA

There I even put it in bold for you....

Now go to that site, click on gunbanbama.  And there you can all bills that he has put on the Senate...  Oh but let me guess, there is no such of that either....  WOW....


BTW here is the direct link for the picture....

http://www.gunbanobama.com/Default.aspx?NavGuid=e7a4e2d7-1dff-47cd-9d6e-ef10cbb9623b&ID=308

Enjoy..... :-*

SUPERFOOL
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6472/supergb8.jpg)

Oh yea, that logo in the corner of the website...  NRA, ah I think that stands for the National Rifle Association...

And trust me, I wish what I posted was scare tactics.  But unlike what you believe, I do my research!!!!

Here is another tid-bit....  The true power of the President is that he appoints Justices to the Supreme Court. In case you don't know, the Supreme Court rules on our Consitutional Rights, that is HUGE...  The President cannot pass laws, only Congress can do that, but Congress cannot appoint Justices... The Congress still has to vote on the President's Appointee. 

cheropride, so you asked what bills president douche...excuse me, bush vetoed, so I showed you.  Exactly what has he done for the lower, middle, upper middle class families???  Do you think medical and healthcare insurance is going to get better if we vote repub.  The tax breaks bush has given hasn't stimulated the economy or my enthusiam for the repub. vote?  What tax breaks is McSame going to give us that would make me want to vote republican??  Do you really believe that they are going to give us more riding areas because you think they believe in the same beliefs you believe in?  Do you think our gun laws are going to be better if a republican gets in office, and if yes, how so???  Do you believe if Mccain gets into office there are going to be no new taxes?  Ask bush sr. for the answer to that question.   Do you believe our economy will be better by cutting middle class taxes and giving middle class tax breaks?  Resort back to our recent 6 yrs on the tax breaks for that answer.  Are you going to watch the upcoming debates with an open mind?  The first one begins this Fri. at 9p.  Just because some mom has a pic on the news, internet, etc. riding on a utv doesn't give me a warm fuzzy and make me want to vote for some old man running for office.

Duh, no shite, NRA =National Rifle Association which called federal authorities "Jack Booted Thugs".  The picture you posted was from the NRA like I said.  Show me somewhere from Obamas website where he plans to do anything that the pictures says.  You can't and you must know something the rest of the free world does not like a super secret plan to take away everyones guns, give me a break.  

Wow, did you just learn that one on the true power of the president?   Go back to school for  a few more years and then come back and try to tell me something I don't know.

Fish,I copied and pasted these from the site Cheropride posted. Surely there are no variables to the answer to my question. ARE THE STATEMENTS BELOW TRUE? Lets see if you can give a yes or no answer or if you will put a democratic spin on it. All I need to know is if it is true.
 



Obama endorsed a ban on all handguns
Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, 9/9/96
Politico, 03/31/08.

Obama voted to allow the prosecution of people who use a firearm for self-defense in their homes
Illinois Senate, S.B. 2165, vote 20, 3/25/04

Obama supported increasing taxes on firearms and ammunition by 500 percent
Chicago Defender, 12/13/99

Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting
United States Senate, S. 397, vote 217, 7/29/05

So since I go the info from the NRA web-site it has to be wrong...

It's 8:30, and I do have a job, so I will be calling it a night...  But many of these facts can be researched, so why don't the two of go look into these bills yourselves...  Here's a site that is pretty good, I know it's links to the Senate Bills so I shouldn't believe that either...  I have previously posted & quoted many of the Bills that Obama has either Sponsored or co-sponsored...  Perhaps if you would like a list of them, well I will be happy to post that too...  
(opps forgot to post site - just little tired.... ;) http://www.govtrack.us/congress/

Here's just a couple to add to the list that I had already posted
SB 1790 Community of Color Teens Act - Provide Grants only for ethinic minority or immigrant communites (why can't this just be Community of Teens Act - Why do these bills have involve race?

SB1513 Predominantly Black Institute Act of 2007 - A grant for low-income African Americans to Higher Educations....  Why does this grant to have to excluded, ,why can't this grant be for all low-income families...

AGain, would be happy to provide a complete list of his bills...  But my point is that is what I go by...  Sure I might poke some fun w/funny photo's and videos, but I do my research.  And I will go out and buy Obama's Book, Dreams of My Father, cuz you said he never said that, but I never heard you come back and say the audio clips where NOT him.

Then let continue, you want to blame Bush for the Economy.  Tell me, specifically what did Bush do to hurt this Economy.  Where do you think most of Deficit is really coming from, do you believe it's the Iraq War, have you checked the Dept of Treasure Website to see what we spend.  

How about this - Spent
Dept of Defense - Military YTD $543 Million (That's all of the Military)

Dept of Health & Human Services YTD $654 Million
Housing & Urban Developement YTD 46 Million
Grants Medicaid $YTD 185 Million

What is my point, it is this, to give more services to the "needy" and "low-income" and "medicaid" type of services is going to cause more taxes.  These are the type of Bills currently being introduced into congress, as a taxpayer I say no more.  Enough is Enough.  The mahor drivers of our growing debt is not the war in Irag, it is more and more entitlement programs, and of course the interest on the debt itself.  Now Democrats want to expand National Healthcare Coverage, do you have any idea what that is going to cost us.  This year alone we have already spent on Medicare/Medicaid Coverage 802 Million $.  Where is this $ going to come from, OUR POCKETS.  

We spent another YTD $431 Million Dollars just in the interest alone....

Now w/energy, I didn't know this until recently, HR 547, Congress mandated ultra-low sulfur contact in all dieself fuel, that explains why diesel is now more expensive than regular gas.  I am not saying that we need to do things to help the enviroment, but Congress needs to becareful w/it's timing.  

As of June 2007 we have spent for the "War Against Terror" (Afganistn,Irag) $600 Billion, within that time span, the deficit has gone up 2 Trillion.  

Honestly, I don't know why I even bother, it will all fall on deaf ears anyway....

Here do your own reseach, I know I shouldn't trust this web site either....

 http://www.ustreas.gov/

Good night....

Thank you... they wearing me out lol....  Thought I was all alone here, well except for Big-d.... LOL  Good night......

One more think, then I am going to bed....LOL

In 2004, when I heard Obama for the first time, I was really impressed, so impressed that I said to my husband, that man needs to be President some day.  And then I made a joke, but dude he needs to change his name...  So when it came about that he was going to run, I was cool.  See I am not a Registered Rep, I am an indepent.  I actually like a candidate that mid-way, and what I mean, votes on the issues, not the party.  So being the person that I am, I LOVE Govermental Issues, and I love to reseach, (also to add I have a degree as a Para-Legal - so yea, to your point fish that I am not educated >:(). 

Anyways back to my point.  At that time, I was no big fan of McCain, and again, as I had said before, he aint my 1st choice.  That's when I started researching the Candidates, and thats when I started to see things that as a person, as a Citizen, goes against who I am.  Then when I would hear remarks such as, "This is the first time that I am Proud to be American", or "The Black Voters need to wake-up", something else hit me, ie, if McCain wife said, the White voters need to wake up, OMG, it would be game on.  Everything that has come out about Obama, bounces right off him, he is the rubberband man candidate.  Heck the Media almost linched Clinton when he said, "he didn't inhale", but Obama openly admits to drug use in his younger days, why the double standard.

I just want ppl to take a hard look at the issues, that is all.  Cause I too was once thought great of Obama, but the more and more I uncover, the more it really pisses me off!!

As for the debate, it is about damn time.  And I pray that who ever is leading the debate, ask the hard questions, to both candidates, and when the candidate responds, and if ain't in line with what they have voted on or done in the past, I pray it comes out.  We have that right.  Not once I have I heard someone ask either candidate, what is your stand on Admendment 2.  I have heard it asked to McCain his stand on Abortion, and he gave an honest answer, cuz he records shows. 

And yes, I can not wait for Friday, going to have a debate party.......  Let's just hope it is truly a debate, and not just some other forum for each candidate not to be put to the test...

God Bless the NRA
(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1977/avatar2695132ah3.jpg)

No you're not alone,infact I think the majority on here believe as you and I do. We just get tired of pointing out the obvious only to have the same select few continue to dance around the truth and only answer the questions that they can put a twist on. There are so many faults in Obamas past actions and words that it's easy for anyone with a patriotic bone in their body to see, but yet the same people keep making excuses for his actions or keep denying them or just flat out refuse to touch on or go into depth on any of the subjects that reflect negatively on him.. I would give people like that more credibility if they ever admitted that Obama has said or done anything wrong but that will never happen.Instead they would rather deny or ignore the facts or better yet insult the intelligence of the person that posts the truths. I for one thank you Cheropride for researching and posting your findings and hope that you can sway a few before it's to late.As corny as it sounds you're doing a great service for your country.

I for one would have a lot more respect for anyone that at least did not post known lies.  But when you cheropride post something that is known to be a lie and then you post something from the NRA about what Obama is saying then how can I or anyone believe what you say.

I'll say it again, show me where Obama is saying he will take away your right to own guns, or any of the other nonsense you posted from the NRA.  You won't do it because you can't.

As far as this comment goes "This is the first time that I am Proud to be American", Obama did not say that it was from his wife.  His wife is not running in case you did not know but if you want to bring wifes in on this then why don't you talk about the fact that McSames wife is a drug addict and a thief?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_McCain , you can scroll down to where it says Drug Problems.  Or the fact that McSame cheated on his first wife with Cindy so he is a cheat and she is a homewrecker.

Again, when someone knowingly lies about the issues I have a hard time trying to be nice and civil when the other person stupes to the level you have.

The fact that the majority of the people on this site may or may not support McSame means nothing to me.  You know as well as I do half the people that post on these subjects (in this case in support of McSame) don't know squat about anything, they say Obama will get a bullet so what does it matter or some other asinine comment.  Most of those people don't know squat about McSame but they are scared of Obama because he is black.  There are exceptions to this rule including you and yes even cheropride and others are at least doing some research.  Also, there are more than a few of us democrates that are also speaking up, but we all know this is mostly a bunch of good ole boys that there main concern is where there next beer is coming from.

Some of the stuff you are accusing Obama of being for today was stuff he did or said 9 yrs ago, things change man.  If I pulled stuff up about McSame from 8-10 yrs ago like you guys are doing I guarantee you he has flip flopped on many issues, or as your current screw up of a president calls it change directions.

Show me anywhere on Obamas 2008 presidential campaign platform where it say anything about all that gun crap from the picture from the NRA and we can discuss this again.

Cheropride are you kidding me?  Have you seen what has been happening in this country the last 7+yrs.  Have you not noticed the housing market collapse, stock market collapse, unemployment up, gas prices at record highs, bank failures or the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan that are not going that well?  Your kidding me right?  How could anyone with half a brain sit here and say the current president is doing a good job is beyond me and McSame is just 4 more years of Bush.

It's the democratic congress Fish, come on get with the program. ;)

I will be the first one to admit that Obama has made some mistakes in the past. With that being said, I don’t know a single person on this earth that hasn’t made mistakes. I actually like McCain and I thought he would have made a good leader back when he ran before but now I am just not sure he is the person we need right. Obama may not be the best one either, but at least he realizes that the country needs to be reorganized and wants to do things to change it. That has been his stance since day one. McCain didn’t start talking about change until about a month ago. The things that matter to me the most are the issues and I for one like Obama’s plan better than McCain’s. McCain just has too many ties to Bush and it scares me deeply. Just step back for a moment and look at the state of our country. Our country is in a state of disarray and we just can’t continue on like this. Everyone always seems to say things like Obama will raise taxes and McCain won’t. I would be completely surprised if the next president that got into office didn’t. What do you think is going to help pay down this deficit? Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember Pres. Reagan saying that he wouldn’t raise taxes either, but when he realized that wouldn’t work for our country, he ended up raising taxes several times and it helped our country tremendously. The point is we need to put somebody in office that is going to help out our country the most and tackle the issues. Who knows, maybe McCain may pull out a trump card before voting day and swing my vote, but for now I am leaning over to Obama.     

Again, this debate goes on and on. I believe we all have some good points to make on both sides. I also am an independant and truly believe we must vote on the issues and not because we are hard core democrats or republicans. I am not a fan of John M. or Sarah P. But I can assure you that Obama's team has orchestrated the most influential and extravagant campaign in the history of the U.S. This campaign was not based on the issues, but on Hollywood Style Heroics. Its scary that the voters here will actually buy into this type on Showmanship. This reminds me of the Wizard Of OZ. When you pull back the curtain there is nothing there. No substance, no history, no accomplishments, nothing that would qualify this guy to be the President of the USA. And for his connections and his affiliations with Muslim Nation, this Rizzuto criminal dude, Rev Wright and the Black Panthers, this is all to close for comfort for me.   

Its going to be the most important election in our history, lets not screw it up.

IF AMERICANS put this much effort into there jobs ;) instead of useless debate over internet chat rooms  8) This country may have a fighting chance. :box.gif How much money is wasted by employers every year for the employees who SURF the web? ::)  :lecture.gif :ThumbsUp.gif CL

I wish I had some work, what a great economy this adminstration has achieved. >:(

the democratic party has been too scared to make a move for the past 2 elections, but now is the time.  The republicans took in an unknown governor from alaska and made her their own.  Like she has been some one there from the beginning. How can one feel secure with the running mate that has taken over the presidential card?  The card is Palin/McCain, right?  If I take a pic of my wife, myself and my son on an atv, would you vote for me??  Bush's tax breaks haven't really done anything for me, how 'bout you?? What has Bush done that is good that McCain is going to more of the same of???? cher o pride?? I used to like McCain too, back in 2000, but he lost to ur current loser bush and I can't see having that same mistake happen again---ya know 8 yrs older and 4 more years of senality.  Where does it stop? 

Karl Rove won that 2000 election for Bush because of a black illegitimate child for their own candidate-McCain. You can't get much dirtier than that-but they will!  How dirty can the republicans get to win another election-not enough, because they're enough smart people that won't vote republican again.  McCain had a shot in '00 but couldn't beat the dumbass in office now, so guess what, new candidate.  The repubs. had 8 yrs to pick a new one and didn't.  just because they made a mistake  8 yrs ago, doesn't mean they get another re-count!!  Now what?

 A lot of Americans have become so insulated from reality that they
>> imagine that America can suffer defeat without any inconvenience to
>> themselves.
>>
>> Pause a moment, reflect back.
>>
>> These events are actual events from history.
>>
>> They really happened!
>>
>> Do you remember?
>>
>> 1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim male extremist.
>>
>> 2. In1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and
>> massacred by Muslim male extremists.
>>
>> 3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by Muslim male
>> extremists.
>>
>> 4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon
>> by Muslim male extremists.
>>
>> 5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim
>> male extremists.
>>
>> 6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year
>> old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his
>> wheelchair by Muslim male extremists.
>>
>> 7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver
>> trying to rescue passengers was murdered by Muslim male extremists. (
>> remember the pilot of this flight was from Richmond, MO)
>>
>>
>> 8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim male extremists.
>>
>> 9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim
>> male extremists.
>>
>> 10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by
>> Muslim male extremists.
>>
>> 11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as
>> missiles to take down the World Trade Centers and of the remaining
>> two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and
>> crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by Muslim
>> male extremists.
>>
>> 12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against
>> Muslim male extremists.
>>
>> 13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by-- you
>> guessed it-- Muslim male extremists .
>>
>> No, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?
>> So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics
>> intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be
>> allowed to profile certain people... Absolutely No Profiling!
>>
>> They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids,
>> airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are
>> members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen
>> with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winner and former Governor Joe
>> Foss, but leave Muslim Males alone lest they be guilty of profiling.
>>
>> According to The Book of Revelations:
>>
>> The Anti-Christ will be a man, in his 40's, of MUSLIM descent, who
>> will deceive the nations with persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE
>> Christ-like appeal.... the prophecy says that people will flock to
>> him and he will promise false hope and world peace, and when he is in
>> power, he will destroy everything.
>>
>> And Now:
>> For the award winning Act of Stupidity Of all times the People of
>> America want to elect, to the most Powerful position on the face of
>> the Planet -- The Presidency of the United states of America.. A Male
>> of Muslim descent who is the most extremely liberal Senator in
>> Congress (in other words an
>> extremist) and in his 40's.
>>
>> Have the American People completely lost their Minds, or just their
>> Power of Reason?
>>
>> I'm sorry but I refuse to take a chance on the 'unknown' candidate
>> Obama...
>>
>> Let's send this to as many people as we can so that the Gloria
>> Aldreds and other stupid attorneys along with Federal Justices that
>> want to thwart common sense, feel ashamed ofthemselves -- if they
>> have any such sense.
>>
>> As the writer of the award winning story 'Forest Gump' so aptly put
>> it, 'Stupid Is As Stupid Does'
>>
>> Each opportunity that you have to send this to a friend or media outlet..
>> do
>> it!

I'm not saying that I think Obama is a Muslim extremist capable of doing any of the acts outlined in that letter.I just thought it was interesting.

Well I did it...  I bought his book, cuz according to Fish I was mistaken, and that he had read the book...

Not even half way thru it, and it honestly sickens me.  It mainly sickens me that the Media, or someone has not pointed this stuff out.  You can't say he is being misquoted, it is his book. 

First of all, for a man running for President, God help us if this book every made into to our schools.... 

You ain't my bit$h, ni$$er.  pg 73 (conversation between friends)

"There are white folks, and then tere are ignorant mother$#$@$$ like you", I finally told the coach... pg 81

That's just how white folks will do you. page 80

Sometimes I would find myself talking to Ray about white folks this or white folks that, and I would suddenly remember my mother's smile (81)

These girls are A-1, USDA-certified racists.  All of 'em. White girls. Asian girls - shoot, these Asians worse than the whites.  Think we got a disease or something. (quote by his friend) page 73

And yet, even as I imagined myself following Malcolm's call (ya know Malcolm X), one line in the book stayed me.  He spoke of a wish he'd once had, the wish that the white blood that ran through him, the by an act of violence, might somehow be expunged.  page 86

Here's one that i was like wow...  In 1983, I pronounced on the need for change.  Change in the White House, and he goes one, about that no big deal.  Then....  paragraph onto itself...  That's what I'll do, I'organize black folks.  At the grass roots.  For change.  page 133

Then he goes on how he wrote every civil rights organization he could think of, to any black elected offical in the country with a progressive agenda.... page 135

Worst part is, newspapers acting like it was black folfs that started the whole mess.  What you expect from the white man's paper? pg 146

***********************************************************************************************************
commentary....
I honestly couldn't read anymore, though I will force myself thru it, cuz knowledge is power, and knowledge is truth.  Besides the numerous racist remarks about white folks, I also found whenever he would talk about anybody, how I would say, I saw this woman walking down the street the other day....  he would say I saw this Asian woman, or this jewish woman, or this white woman.  Every person seems to have a label according to their race, and THAT IS WRONG!!!!  There is much more that I didn't quote, but it's there...  It is honestly sickening....

I really find it odd, and scary at the same time, that they media has not jumped all over this book.  It is a very race driven book, and his agenda is clear.  You know Fish, you say I lie about the 2nd Admendment, and yea I will get back to that later (will actually go and pull the freakin Bill no's so you can't call me liar!), but how can you say you read this book from cover to cover and didn't see anything wrong with it.  Hey I heard of reading between the lines, but this is clear.  And on top of all that, this book had more explecitives than I would appreciate from a man running for President....  I think it is really funny he got all pist off about the Nappy-head comment, but you ain't my bit$h ni$$er, and the p-word, and the m-fu$$, give me a break. 

I still have to look up some words.... neocolonialism, Eurocentrism, partiarchy (well I get that one), and who the heck is Fran Fanon....  That's would they would hang out and discuss in college, w/so well chosen friends....  "To avoid being mistaken a sellout, I chose me friends carefully.  The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The chicanos.  The Marxist Professors...... WTF And we are going to elect this guy as president, (oh, so that I am not called a liar, page 100)..


I end with this........

WAKE UP AMERICA - WAKE UP!!!!!!  Cuz this man on a mission....  And apparently is not politically correct to question his motives..... >:D

Found this interesting in his book, and yea, it'a read between the lines if you want...  But it takes place after a barber shop, after a long discussion on how it has been for the blacks, and how white folks spit in there face,ect, ect...  At the end of the converstation...

"Barack, huh, You a Muslim?"
Barack replies, "Grandfather was."

That's it, don't go into say anything else, just that...  For me, I believe there is a point behind that.  Just found it interesting that he put that in the book, and left it like that...  Now I ain't done w/the book, but he has already stated his contemplation to follow Malcolm X, extremist and a Muslim, and goes on to mention how he met this guy Malik who moved to Hawaii (ya know where barack lived)....  And quotes this guy, "You all talking about Malcolm, huh? Malcolm tells it like it is, no doubt about it." hmmmmmm

Lets get this right Cheropride, I never said I read his book.  I shot several of your lies down so I don't remember which one your talking about but if anything I referenced snopes.com that dispelled your lie.

This is a long story, but if you have any interest
in what's going on in the financial markets, I think
you'll find it a more useful analysis than you're
likely to find anywhere else in the media.

Also, it's an important set-up for today's video.

Without this article, you'll still get value from the
video, but with it, you'll REALLY know what's going
on better than most people on earth...including
financial news reporters.

I encourage you to invest the five minutes it will
take to read this. If not, you can skip to the link
at the bottom.

- Brasscheck

=========================================

*** A short explanation of how we got to where we are

Today's banking crisis is the THIRD trillion dollar plus
US-caused financial meltdown in the last twenty years.

Each one of these crises came into being through the same basic
mechanism...the fraudulent over-valuing of financial assets by
Wall Street - with a "wink and a nod" (and sometimes a lot more)
from the White House and Congress.

The fraudulently valued assets stimulate the economy, impart
the illusion of health and then, inevitably, the fraud goes
too far and the whole house of card comes painfully crashing
back to earth.

The three trillion dollar plus frauds were:

Fraud #1: The so-called "Savings and Loan Crisis" of the late 80s

Fraud #2: The so-called "Tech Bubble" of the late 90s

Fraud #3: The so-called "Credit Crisis" of today

*** How the scam works

The mechanism of these frauds is simplicity itself...

...Take a shaky financial asset and blow up its value
and then sell as much of it as you can.

In the "Savings and Loan Crisis," the instrument was junk bonds.

In the "Tech Bubble" it was Internet stocks.

In the "Credit Crisis" it was individual mortgages collected
into pools and then re-sold to investors.

In each case, normal, well established "bread and butter"
financial principles were consciously thrown away by Wall Street
with no hint of protest from federal regulators.

***The "Savings and Loan Crisis" dissected

Junk bonds caused the Saving and Loan crisis which
resulted in the US taking over the assets of hundreds of
banks and selling them back over time to the marketplace
at fire sale prices.   

Junk bonds, which caused the "Savings and Loan Crisis" were
shaky bonds that were pumped up by deliberate misrepresentation
and what I call "staged dealing."

Bonds get their value from two things: the amount of interest
they pay and how safe they are.

"Junk" bonds have to pay higher interest because they are less
safe. Therefore, until the "Savings and Loan Crisis,"  savings
and loan banks banks were not allowed by law to buy them and call
them assets.

Reagan/Bush changed all this and then a group of Wall Street
fraudsters used the new loophole to kick off an orgy of junk
bond creation and junk bond selling to banks and insurance
companies.

The crooks would deal the junk bonds back and forth
amongst themselves thereby establishing their "value"
and then they'd sell them to outsiders. The bonds
then became "assets" which could be borrowed against
and leveraged to buy even more bonds.

When the bonds failed, the banks failed and in stepped the
US government to "fix" the problem that it created at the cost
of at least one trillion dollars to US tax payers.

Deja vu, eh? 

***The "Tech Bubble" dissected

The instrument of fraud in the "Tech Bubble" was Internet
stocks, start ups in particular.

A stock gets its value from the underlying company's sales,
its growth and its overall prospects for the future.

Pre-tech bubble, companies used to have to prove themselves
by being in existence for several years before they could
be sold on major exchanges.  That standard was thrown away
during the tech bubble.

To pump of their values, the companies engaged in
"staged dealing" just like the junk bond crooks.

Company #1 would "sell" 20 million dollars in banner
ads to Company #2 which would in turn "sell" 20 million
in banner ads to Company #1. 

In fact, nobody sold anybody anything. Company #2 ran
ads for Company #1 and billed it for them. Company #1
ran ads for Company #2 and billed for an equal amount.

These should have been called media trades not sales, but
Wall Street was happy to claim them as legitimate cash sales
and then use the sales numbers to fraudulently value these
companies - many of them totally worthless - in the
hundreds of millions and sometimes even the billions.

***The "Credit Crisis" dissected

By now, you see how the scheme works.

It's not complicated at all.

You take near worthless pieces of paper (junk bonds, stock
of start up Internet companies, etc.) and declare them to
be good as gold.

Then you create as many junk bonds and Internet start up
stocks as you get and sell them as fast as you can.

In the case of our current crisis, the instrument of fraud
was so-called sub-prime mortgages.

Previously, sub-prime mortgages had very little trading value.
Only people in the sub-prime industry itself dealt in them and for
good reason. They're tricky to value and packed with financial
peril.

But Wall Street changed all that.

Wall Street said: "If we take LOTS of these mortgages and assemble
them into large pools and then slice and dice the pools in various
ways, we can sell the slices to banks and other investors as AAA
paper."

It sounds crazy, doesn't it?

If the underlying pieces of paper are garbage, how does assembling
a whole bunch of garbage into one place make it "better?"

It doesn't, of course, and this is a principle even a three year
old child can understand.

But greed and the need to pump up a shaky economy for propaganda
purposes are two very strong motivators.

Banks created these mortgage pools, sold them to each other,
and they by virtue of these "staged sales" declared them valuable.

Do you recognize the pattern now?

If you do, then you are now smarter than all the assembled j@ck@sses
who do financial reporting because they apparently can't - or
won't. 

This is the THIRD trillion-dollar plus fraud driven financial
meltdown in twenty years and apparently no one in the financial
news media can see how it happened.   

***But there's more...

Junk bonds were mass manufactured as fast as the crooks could
invent them. Ditto for Internet stocks.

But how did hundreds of billions of dollars worth of "toxic"
mortgages suddenly come into being?

Why did the mortgage industry change its lending standards so
radically and so suddenly to make their creation possible?

And why did real estate lending regulators in all 50 states - 
because real estate lending is a STATE-level issue not a federal
- go along with it?

Here's where it gets very interesting...

The fact is state-level lending regulators were VERY concerned
about what was going on.  They have been for years.

And they not only expressed their concern clearly, they also
took SERIOUS concerted legal action to stop lenders from making
bad real estate loans to their citizens.

(Most of the sub-prime loans in the news so much today were
designed to screw the people who borrowed the money and can
rightly be called "predatory" loans.)

Guess who stopped the states from enforcing their own time-proven
real estate lending laws and thus created the raw material that
made the current "Credit Crisis" possible?

*** The trillion dollar plus question

If you're a US taxpayer, you're going to pay for this fraud
so you might as well know who did it to you.

His initials are GB.

You know him well.

But perhaps more interesting is the name of the person who
single-handedly rallied first state attorneys general and then
fellow governors to fight the creation of these loans and who
in the process became Public Enemy #1 to the Bush Administration...

His initials are ES.

If you follow "silly" US political scandals, you'll recognize
his name instantly when you hear it. 

And you will *finally* understand why he was quickly and
permanently assassinated politically earlier this year.

Had ES been allowed to "live," he would have been in position to
remind everyone every day of who made the current meltdown
possible.

Instead, he was silenced very effectively. Not with a bullet
in the back of the head, but the net effect was just the same.

So effective was his assassination that no one can even
mention his name in connection with today's crisis without
risking ridicule, or worse. 

Last note:

The crisis this fraud has created is *exponentially* bigger
than the S & L and Tech Bubble combined.

It's not going to be resolved by a quick "patch up" and will
likely have the same impact on the current generation that the
depression of the 1930s had on its parents, grandparents and
great grandparents.

On that cheerful note, here's the big story everyone missed
this year and now you'll finally know what REALLY happened
and why:

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/291.html

Well I am sorry that I directed it at you...  Someone came back to me and said they "read" the book and it didnt say those things...  So sorry about that..  But what lie...  You keep saying I am lie, where do I lie...  Are you saying that this is a lie, that this are not from his book...  Dude, just went out spent $14.95 on some guy's book.....  I have the book, I am reading it..  It's in there...

No, everything you say is not a lie and without going back over several threads to figure it out I am not sure how many times you lied but maybe 2-3 times.  My point is when someone is known to lie why should I or anyone else listen to what they say? 

(http://www.significantudders.com/deficitbypres.jpg)


You might want to check your facts about when Clinton leaving office the country was in a recession

1st!!!  I never lie.  What I do is research.  Yea, when it comes to Dreams of my father, yea that exact quote I have not come to or perhaps aint in the book, but at the same time, there is enough in that book to piss anyone off...  I can only think that the previous quote came from this (for I ceaed to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I begean to suspect that by doind so I was ingratiating myself to whites)...  Okay, I had misquoted that.  And when he said I did, I said, okay I will buy the book, and I did....

2nd - I DO NOT LIE.  I am not saying I am perfect, that something may be wrong.  But I research, if what I say is wrong, than I am wrong.  If you are talking about Iraq, I am sorry that is a matter of two different opinions...  Personally I do not like being called a liar, cause that is something I am not.  If I am mistaken about something, surely point it out to me, heck I could be wrong, I would love to research further.  But honestly, can we lose the "lie", cuz, I happen to think that is wrong.  I have never called you a liar, or come against you personally at all..  Apparently we have different opinions about the upcoming election, and that's how I see it.  

So again, where have I lied to you....  Definition of a Lie is knowing saying something that is not true.....  Newsflash, I don't post something that I don't believe in my heart to be true, I have never come on here and say, hey, I am the one w/all the answers, I am always right.  And if something I find is wrong, then I will research more....  When I can, I go directly to the source, ie Congressional and Senate Bills.  

You think I am wrong, well fine, then research, just perhaps I have missed something.  Also, just bcz I post something from NRA, does not make me liar.  I happen to stand behind the NRA, and I KNOW that this candidate is after our 2nd admendment rights....

Why don't you do a little research and prove me wrong.....

I thought China was just giving us money to support bad ideas by the republicans.  We (USA) has to pay this money back?  I thought the stimulus payouts were going to work-I can't believe the economy still sucks and everyone is scared to spend money.  Where did that stimulus check money come from-US..don't say it's true....China.  Most wars boost our economy-this one went wrong-economically speaking.  The presidential election was wrong from the get, back in '00.  Now we have close minded republicans that have a conspiracy theory.  Are you serious??  Most republicans can't get an original thought or idea without stealing it from some other source. Thru the debates the repubs. have got a lot of "'splainen to do Lucy". 

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2741/zzzzzzcd4.png) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2741/zzzzzzcd4.f66c2bc9c2.jpg) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=526&i=zzzzzzcd4.png)