ATV Florida Forum

I'm in the market for a new deer rifle. I've only hunted with a bow and shotguns in the past due to the areas I have hunted. My dad just acquired a sizable piece of hunting land and I am now able to use a rifle. I also will be hunting in Alabama at my dads lease. I've looked at several rifles, but I haven't nailed it down as of yet.

What would you recommend out of the following calibers?
.270
30-06
7mm

Are there any other calibers you would recommend?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

X

Hey. The 270 is to small. you will have to be a perfect shot with well placement for the kill. 7mm might be ok. I would go with 30-06. alot of rifles kick up. not so with the 30-06. i kicks straight back. meaning better shots every time with little pulling of angle. also a 35 cal would work for you if funds are tite. but the 35 pulls up, not as much as 270 and some others. and dont forget the 308 cal. great knokdown power, kicks straight back but can be a pricy weapon. hope this helps. :}}

I thought about the .308 but I forgot to list it. I think I'm leaning towards the 30-06 and the .308.
Any more thoughts?

X

I have a 308 auto great gun good knockdown and accurate.The 30-06 and 308 are close to the same guns both good, never had one run off more than 20 yards.

I've been using 7mm Rem Mag for close to 20 years and I like it far better than the 30-06.  You have a higher velocity which translates to a flatter trajectory, longer range and has all the power needed to take down any big game in North America.  I would also recommend the Remington Model 700 as a rifle, as well.  Very durable, highly accurate and not terribly expensive.  You will also need to purchase a scope.  As a rule, you should plan to spend at least as much for the scope as you did for the rifle.  Buy the largest aperture that you can afford; it's the key to a great scope.  The bigger the aperture, the more light it lets in.  I personally use a Burris 3-10x50 (variable power 3x to 10x, 50mm apperture).  Nikon is another great scope as well as Leupold but both are quite expensive compared to the Burris.  Go to a quality shop that hopefully will have all three scopes and compare them side by side. 

I've had a 35 marlin for a very long time. I love it. When I was younger I would take the biggest rifle I could out there. Then I realized they get heavy real quick. So I started taking a .270 and learning some patience.

Any of these guns are great choices. I own several of all of these calibers and like them all.

If I had to pick one, I'd say the 30-06. For the simple reason that it's large enough to do anything in the United States you wish. Believe it or not, it's even the most popular Elk round in the USA. Another good reason to select this caliber is the fact that just about any Mom and Pop store you walk into that sells ammo will have a box of 30-06 on the shelf.

The .270 is an excellent round as well. Let me be clear, it's not too small. That's absolutely not right. Also all of that crap posted about kicking up verses back and "pulling angle" (wtf?) is total garbage and not true either.  In fact, it's been called the best deer round ever created. What's more, the ballistics are on par with the 30-06 (within 200 fps at the muzzle and at 100yrds). Regarding "kick", the .270 and the 30-06 are essentially the same as the cartridges are almost identical, save bullet diameter.

The 7 mag is a wonderful round as well. Like I said, I have several of all of these calibers and sometimes hunt with the 7 mag. However, the 7 mag definitely kicks back quite a bit and damages at lot more of the animal upon impact. Flatter and faster? Yes. Better? No, unless you're in a very specific situation. If you insist on a magnum cartridge, there are better choices available than the 7 mag these days.

Regarding the .308. I think it is an excellent round too. In my opinion, it's as good a choice as the 30-06 in most situations as is the .270. Oh, and it's not any more money than the 30-06 or the .270.

Regarding rifle brands, Diggin is right abou the Remington Mod. 700. It is an excellent gun out of the box and it will not jurt you too bad on price. The same can be said of the Winchester Mod. 70 and even the Savage 7 line which is actually the best performing high production rifle on the market today (the trigger is awesome!!!). Spend the money on a good scope (Leupold, Ziess, Swarovski, Khales, Burris [high end] and Schmidt & Bender) and even better mounts. Don't just go to the local Wally World and buy the Tasco cheapo clamps. They don't hold up.

Let me know if you have any specific questions on these guns. Also, depending on where you're located, I'd be happy to let you try out all of these guns at the range sometime.

I have fired many weapons. some military and some civilian. kick up is a real issue and can lead to a bad shot.dont even try to tell me WTF if you have never heard of a pulling angle then you are not a true marksman. 270 is a great round. but to small for my taste. Thanks for trying and have a great day!!!!  <bump>

Relax sparky. You don't know what you're talking about so give it a rest. Please.

Anyway, like I said, Xfactor, let me know if you have any questions or if you're in the Tampa Bay area and want to try out these different guns.

i too am wanting a rifle. i am lookin at that Smith and Wesson 30-06. Smiths are great guns and we have a few already. Never let us down. Before i found them, i was looking at Savage, Remington, and Tikka. I also checked out a Ruger. im gonna get a 30-06. i have pondered wether to get a .308 or a 30-06 alot. but, like mentioned, you will always be able to find ammo and there are more choices.

Fox17, I assume you're talking about a Smith &Wesson i-bolt. That is an excellent gun for sure.  ;) Steve Skrubis was the designer of that gun for Smith and they use the Thompson barrels on the gun (Smith&Wesson bought Thompson a few years back). Skrubis is a long gun god to most rifle aficionados and really made a nice package in the i-bolt.

Excellent fit and finish and a really nice gun. Congrads to you! It will last you a long long time.

I would agree with what Anoriginal has said, BUT would like to add a question to it.
 What type of area are you going to be hunting in? Open areas or heavily wooded areas? That would be the deciding factor for me.
 We also own all of the above mentioned caliber rifles and all are perfect for each specific type of hunting.
 If I were going to open fields or open hard woods such as in Alabama, I would use the .270, just choose wisely on the ammo. We use a ballistic round in our .270`s which gives you the flat trajectory and Knock down power.
 Now if you were going to more heavily woode areas, probaly choose something from the 30 caliber family. The -06 can blow through small twigs with out as much trouble of deflection versus the .270.
 Just something to think before you buy.
 I would try to take Anoriginal up on his offer before you buy, He is an great guy who can help you if you listen.

yea, i couldnt think of what it was called. i didnt even know they made rifles (except assault riflre for police) but they do! and shotguns. i saw it in a field and stream. so i went online and its not too bad price wise either. i was expecting a browning price tag but nope. for the camo weather shield its like $630. i dont know how much a gun store would have it for though. are they more or less than msrp usually?

You and troy will get a kick out of this.  I can John Wayne any gun out there.  Remember that day?  Back on topic here.  I have shot a 30-06 pump for the past 5 years dear hunting and love it.  I am also a major explorer.  One that gets out of the tree stand and walks for 3 or 4 hours exploring new territory looking for signs.  I don't know much about guns and their weight, but the only complaint I have about my 30-06 is it can get heavy as the day goes on.  If you walk alot and hunt deep in the woods like I do, I would consider weight as a major factor in buying a gun.  Then again, I have an office job, so I don't walk alot, that could contribute to it too.
Anoriginal is right about the scope.  Had a cheap tasco on it, and after it fogging up a few times I ditched it.  I would suggest spending the money on a good scope.  Nothing like having a nice deer scoped out and the scope fog up.  Can lead to a frustrating hunt.

Sorry but i do. Just becouse you have a Dumb_$$ opinion does not make you right. just give xfactor real facts and leave your opinion out of it!!! If you have never felt the pull of a rifle then like i said you are not a real marksman and should shut up, now!!! xfactor you should however take up anoriganal on his offer to try out the guns. that would be the best way to make a propper choice. also what dynodon said holds very true. hunting in a field or in thick brush will be very different on the round and how it acts. either way we have a right to bear arms and we should all excersise this right.  :T

OUCH, my side hurts from laughing......... Thats was one funny act of agression that HOT azz georgia day Jason!!!!
 Thanks I needed a good laugh, LOL

Back to the topic now, I usually use my Remington model 700, .270 almost everywhere from Michigan, maine, to Georgia. But I dont usually hunt really thick under brush terrain.
 I have never had a problem bagging an animal with it ( Smokedog can testify to that) , But,being patient is key to a good clean shot with any firearm you choose.

The "pull" of a rifle?  As in trigger pull? Or do you mean pull as in rotation from tension when pulling the trigger? Or maybe you mean pull as in rifle sizing for an individual?

And angle? I mean the ballistics on the .270 and the 30-06 are extremely close with the .308 not too far behind. So, I assume you must be talking about bullet drop over distance? Well, that depends an extreme amount on bullet weight and caliber. Not just one or the other. All three calibers are used in Match competition on a regular basis. (But I guess you probably know that already as well as the impact of cross wind, rotation, mirage, humid swell, horizoning, etc...) Yeah, I didn't think so.

Keep posting, you're making me laugh and demonstrating you've got no idea about the subject. I mean, arguing the .270 is too small (umm, it's a 7mm and can be the same exact weight of a 7.62 [.30 cal] round) demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge on the subject. I especially love the part about a 30-06 only kicking straight back while other calibers kicking up. That was funny as he-l.

Oh, and that's funny about me having a dumb-azz opinion too. Especially given my background on firearms. If you only knew, you'd feel so stupid right now. Anyway, relax. You're too funny.

Fox17, if you shop it, you'll probably be able to beat that price at a reputable gun shop. That's not a bad price on those guns. I've seen the same gun sell for over $700.00. Just shop around and I am confident you'll get a good deal.

this might get good.  ::)

Okay, three people have sent me e mails asking me what I shoot regularly. My favorite hunting rifle in my collection (that I actually hunt with) is a Kenny Jarrett Custom Windwalker in .300 Jarrett. Talley mounts and a Schmidt & Bender Precision Hunter in 2.5-10x56 with the No.9 Reticle and the BDC system.

Although, I have a Ed Brown, Bushveld on order in .300 Win Mag. It may surpass my affection for the Kenny Jarrett. We'll see. It should be here next month. It's coming with a Swarovski PV in 3-12x50. Should be a nice rig. :ThumbsUp.gif

X, Anoriginal knows what he's talking about.  I've been around guns most of my life and everything he said is true, including the damage a 7mm Rem Mag sometimes does.  It's definitely a round where you pick your shot unless you want to ruin a lot of meat.  I do my hunting primarily in Alabama, both in woods and across patureland.  I've never had problems shooting in either environment and I've made head shots from over 300 yards (with witnesses) with my set-up.  The one thing you need to consider when you're shopping is to not get caught up too much in going with esoteric brands.  There eventually comes a point of diminishing returns so don't worry if you can't afford that $3,000.00+ bolt action rifle when there are $600.00 rifles that will do reasonably as well.  Only the most accomplished marksman will notice the difference between a Model 700 and some of the brands Anoriginal is naming.  Even if you can't meet up with Anoriginal, try to find a range that might have rental rifles in the calibers you're interested in so you can feel them first hand.  One last point I would like to confirm that Anoriginal made is availability of rounds.  On one of my hunting trips I had to drive 50 miles (round trip) to a store that had 7mm Rem Mag when if I had been shooting 30-06, I could have purchased from the gas station 2 miles down the road.  Just something to consider.  BTW, I shoot the 7mm because I don't think it kicks as hard as the 30-06 in addition to the other qualities I mentioned above, just in case you're wondering.

Not to nit-pick, but weight really doesn't have anything to do with bullet drop.  Every bullet drops at the same acceleration (gravity).  Velocity has everything to do with drop over distance; a bullet travelling 3000 fps will not have dropped as much at 200 yards as a bullet travelling 2700 fps.  The further out you go, the more pronounced the difference.  Aerodynamics also have something to do with drop since a bullet that is decelerating quicker than another will take longer to cover the distance (and thus drop farther due to the acceleration of gravity).  The engineer in me had to set the record straight.   ;)

Should you decide to go with a 270, I have a Brand new never fired Winchester Model 70 .270 with a Seimens scope, synthetic stock that I'd like to sell. I bought it years ago with the anticipation of learning to hunt. But, I already have too many irons in the fire. If you are interested shoot me a PM (no pun intended).

I have $550 into it but I'll take $450.

Absolutely. You and I are 100% on the same page.  A 150gr bullet in the .270 verses in the 7 mag will definitley have different drop rates due to the amount of powder (thus velocity) behind it. Good clarification.  ;)

I'm glad you agree.  As an illustration, you can also compare the 30-06 and the 7mm Rem Mag each in 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, Federal Premium.  Their muzzle velocities are within 95 fps of each other (3025 for the 7 and 2910 for the 06).  However, at 300 yds the difference increases to 173 fps.  The culprit?  Cross-sectional area, creating more aerodynamic drag.  Thus, the 30-06 will have dropped further at 300 yds than the 7mm Rem Mag.  I could do the math and tell you exactly what the difference is but I don't feel like it.  This is a minor difference in the decrease in velocity (18% versus 21%) until you go into some of the bigger calibers.  For instance, the 470 Nitro Express 500 gr bullet decelerates by 33% over the same distance.  There is, of course, a huge difference in bullet shape and cross-sectional area between the 470 and either of the other two.  Drag is the culprit here.  After all, the only two forces acting on any bullet between the time it leaves the muzzle and contacts the target is gravity and aerodynamic drag.  Since gravity only affects the vertical component, the horizontal component is strictly affected by aerodynamic drag.  So there you have it; your dynamics lesson of the day.    :lecture.gif     ;)

Well put!!!! :Clap.gif :bow.gif

Hey. The 270 is to small. you will have to be a perfect shot with well placement for the kill. ?More deer have been poached with a 22 mag than any other gun and it kills them graveyard dead. I shot one last season with a 257 Roberts at 300 yards and it licked dirt on the spot.YZF your an idiot stick to talking about things you know.As for one kicking up and not the rest thats plain stupid and shows how stupid you are when it comes to ballistics. I have a ruger 7mag and like it but dont try to hunt it in thick stuff with it because of deflection.

Great article on "brush guns" from a very noted source.

http://www.sixguns.com/range/Brsh.htm

Its one thing to have an argument with someone who is knowledgable (anoriginal) and its another to have an argument with a jack_$$ like you. When you grow up and can understand this thread then maybee just maybee you can voice you opinion. in the mean time F__K OFF!!
Once again xfactor take up anoriginal about shooting all types of guns so you can make a good decision on what to buy!!!!!!

YZF you know as much about guns as Ted Kennedy.I agee with what Anoriginal has to say he sems very knowlegable on this topic,But I still think your an IDIOT.

Daisy 880 powerline, 10 pump!   :o

 :ThumbsUp.gif

Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle. you'll shoot your eye out kid. ho ho ho merry christmas.


444 marlin. my favorite rifle. my dad has it. very powerfull. not good for hunting small game. more like elephants. ;)

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/444.aspx

I personally shoot a Weatherby 7mm Mag. It suits me and I'm very confident in it in all of my hunting situations. I've hunted in several states and Canada and the 7mm Mag has never let me down. I have several rifles of various calibers, but whenever I go hunting, I always grab the trusty Weatherby. The exception to that is if I'm hunting in really thick cover, then I go for the Marlin 30/30.
I don't care much for the 30.06, but I think that's mainly from the rifles I've owned in that caliber more so than the cartridge itself. There is something to be said for availibilty of 30.06 ammo though. Like someone said earlier, you can literally buy 30.06 shells everywhere you go. 
The .270 seems to be a very controversial round. People either love it or hate it. I've seen guys almost fist fight at hunt camps while arguing the pro's and con's of the .270. I personally don't have an opinion on the .270 because I've never hunted with one. One of my longtime hunting buddies has shot one for years and loves it, although I will say we trailed some deer for a very long way for him. But, in fairness, that has just as much to do with the shooter and shot placement as the gun.
The main I've seen over the years is guys will blow their whole wad buying a nice rifle, and then put a discount dime store scope on it. It always made laugh to see a guy on an expensive hunt, toting a good quality rifle with an el cheapo $99 Tasco scope on it.  My advice, no matter which gun you choose is to not skimp on the optics and put the very best scope you can afford on it.
Just my $.02

Marlin .45-70 carbine is a nice brush gun and promises to put a nice sized hole in whatever its aimed at when you pull the trigger.

Browning A-bolt 270

The .270 is a nice round; it's quite capable of killing any deer.  The rifles tend to be a bit lighter since you're not shooting a magnum round and the recoil is fairly soft.  That's why all the women and children in our camp used the .270.    :R :R :M rolback1 rolback1

I would like to take you to Maine during rifle season sometime. I will carry my .270, and you your 7mm mag. Either your going to be a hundred yarder ( leave the truck and turn back after a hundred yards and sit in the truck) OR, your arms are going to be 10" longer than when you left the truck.
 If you have never hunted in the north east, You have NO idea. Maine is VERY hard to hunt, nothing but mountain after mountain and they are not easily walked carrying nothing let alone a rifle.

It was a joke, Don.  In any event, I would still rather take my 7.  Ever hear of a sling?  On top of that, ever try to kill a deer on the next ridge, 300+ yards away with a .270?  Didn't think so.  That's what makes the 7 such a nice round; killing power at long ranges without having to adjust your elevation 11 inches and versatile enough to work well in the woods.  On top of that, a Model 700 7mm Rem Mag is not much heavier than a Model 700 .270; maybe a pound or two.  By the way, I've been to Maine (latest trip just last July) and bicycled those mountains so I'm pretty sure I can walk them just fine.   ;)

We need to meet at the range and settle this.   digginfool

Why are you being mean to Busta anyway? He only answered the question in the subject matter. When it is all said and done does it really matter? What you are comfortable with and proficient with is the answer.

Hey fastrnik, is it a Weatherby in 7mm Rem Mag or a 7mm Wby Mag?


And you guys all know there is truly no such thing as a "brush gun" right?   ;)

I shot some today actually. Shot my .257 Roberts, a .300 Win Short Mag and a 221 Rem. Fireball.  ;D

Always a fun time.

??????

you called Busta out. you even saw it fit to put 5 smiley gimmicks in there.

Are you sheeeet faced?

Actually YES I have shot a deer 300 yards away with my .270 without a problem.
 A sling helps, but doesnt change the fact of the extra weight. You say only a pound or two, but that makes a difference at the end of the day.
I think I am safe to say, you never hunted on chairback mountain, only due to the fact that you arent walking much in rifle season, more like crawling.Same with B-pond, or the Sterling range.
 Sure there are areas that are walkable, but to get to them with snow on the ground AINT gonna happen.
 Anyway, I would like to get with ya sometime when you are planning on going again depending on where or what area you go to.
 We go the Katadin ironwood forest area way up by the "golden road", nearest town is Brownville.

I should have been specific. It's a 7mm Rem Mag.

You have a short mag? What's the deal with the short mag cartridges? Good, bad? Better than normal magnums? Just curious.  

fastrnrik -

I have a few of the Short Mags and I really like them. I'm especially fond of the 300WSM. It's got excellent ballistics across the board and, with equal bullets, it carries more velocity and energy than the 300 win mag or the 7 mag from muzzle to the end.

I've been quite impressed with them so far. I've got two 300WSM's (one in Winchester Mod 70 Synth/stainless and one in a Kimber 8400) and a 325 WSM in a Browning A-Bolt. I haven't hunted with the 325...yet. But, I've been happy with it at the range.

I've killed lots of deer with the 300WSM's and really had great luck. All of the WSM and WSSM cartridges are essentially factory wildcat rounds. Cool stuff and fun to shoot too.

When I hunted I had 3 guns that I choose from.

12 gage pump 3 1/2 shell
30 / 30
Rem 7 mil

12 gage is used for dog hunting

30 /30 is used for in the woods.  I do not have a scope on it so the target is easy to find when the gun is brought up.  Longest kill shot with this gun was 130 yards (iron sights)

7 mill is used for open fields.  Longest kill with this gun was 340 yards.

I have hunted all my life and have a variety of guns to choose from.  But it all boils down to what you are comfortable with.

For example.  My dad has a 30.06 and that is his choice riffle.  He has taught his self how to shoot with it.  One Day I thought I would try it.  So I take a couple shots with it to see where the scope was with my eyes.  First thing I noticed was that the hairs were wrong.  I mentioned it to him and he couldn't see it cause he was use to it.  Now I know that is wrong but my point is this.  You get accustomed to the equipment you use.

Hey Anoriginal.  Is there any truth to the rumor that rifles chambered for short mags are heavier due to the extra metal required in the chamber area and reinforcement of the action? 

diggin-

I hadn't heard that. But, when I read it, I went back and checked weights. They make no varied change in weight between the short mag and regular calibers. However, that weight might have been made up in other places besides the chamber. Interesting theory tough. I am definitley going to research it a bit more. ;D

I do know this. The reason the short mags work so well isn't because of more powder. For instance, the 300 WSM carries less the the standard .300 Win Mag. However, the difference is the fact that the WSM calibers burn less powder more efficiently. This results in higher performance. I find the WSM's to be pretty cool for this reason.

 Hornaday actually builds a series of rounds they call "light magnum" for several calibers, including the 30-06. With these rounds, the performance on the 30-06 goes through the roof! Same theory is used in the light magnum cartridge as in the WSM. Change in powder burn rate, etc. and you get more efficiency and thus more power. Take this technology to the extreme and you get into you belted magnum calibers (like a .458 Win Mag, etc.). Granted, head space and overall size also dictates the belt.

I've heard of the weight issue with short mags , but dont believe there's any major difference between the two .I've handled both ,same make ,model ,one short other standerd and didnt notice any difference.
A short action might save a few ounces but possibly gain it at the barrel with heavier chamber.
Regardless a short mags performance outweigh any negatives IMO.

WOW! I leave for the weekend to go fish and I come back to 50 posts! Thank you very much for the replies and information. Anoriginal I really appreciate your offer as well but I am on the NE side of Orlando now and with diesel fuel prices it would kill me to take a ride over there. I think I have narrowed it down to a 30-06. My brother has a Remington 7400 with 10 rounds through it that he is looking to part with for $600. It's got a Pentax scope, not quite sure of quality of the scope. What do you guys think of that?

Thanks,
X

I have to say, many people do not like the 7400. However, I have one (imagine that, lol) and think it's a good gun. The key is keeping it clean. It's a gas operated semi-automatic gun. So, you must be sure to keep the moving parts very clean and the gas chambers free from build up and debris.

The gun is somewhat heavy and not as accurate as a bolt action. But, it does have the benefit of fast second/third shots and little recoil. Keep it well maintained and you should have no problem whatsoever.

With respect to the Pentax scope, it's not a bad scope at all. While not on par with a Zeiss, etc. it's much better than a Tasco/Bushnell type. Check the mounts real well. Holden makes a very solid set of mounts for the 7400 that offer see through ability while really securing hte scope very well. Moreover, the Holden mounts are not too terribly expensive.

$600.00 with a scope isn't bad at all on price. These guns in good shape sell for $450 and up without optics. So, if you know this gun and the seller and you're getting optics, I'd say that's a fair price for the gun. Good luck to you. Stay safe and enjoy.

Thanks for the reply. There is also a Remington  Model 770 .270 that is up for grabs for $400. New in box with papers and never been fired. Blued with Camo composite stock and Bushnell 3X9. I'm not too wild over the scope, but what do you think about the package?

X

XFactor -

The 770 is the exact same rifle as the 710 with some dressed up parts. Stay away from it at all costs. The action is horrible and cheaply made. I've heard of people breaking off the bolts on the rifles among other things.

Most people believe Reminton made this rifle just to have something in Walmart to sell. It's not a good gun in my book. Stick the the 7400 and you'll be more happy.  ;D

Taken plenty hogs and whitetails with my Savage .270 here and W.Va. and Michigan, awesome Walmart gun