ATV Florida Forum

Is there any benefit to running a higher octane fuel than 87?

You should never run 87 in a quad. 93 burns cleaner. Here's an example.Run a quad with 87 for 6 months and run one with 93 for 6 months. Pull the piston and there will be buildup all over the head of the 87 octane piston.
You should always run the highest octane available based on what mods you have.

I might have to disagree just a bit. In fact I’d be interested in running that test as you describe.  Reasons I have are this. 87-octane fuel has a very low flash point. This in turn when used inappropriately will cause common condition know as valve ping or spark knock. This occurs as a result of the violent explosion in the combustion chamber and the increased heat of high compression. When introducing the high 93 octane to an engine that does not require it, you will find the accumulation of carbon deposit that eventually lead to port restrictions and excessive carbon build up. If you take your cylinder pressure and divide it by 15(15psi = 1square of pressure) you can determine your compression ratio and therefore determine your need for higher-octane fuels.some other Variables to consider are - temperature,bore & stroke, head volume, additives, deck height, ionization, etc...The only true way to determine this is several hours on a Dyno reading monoxide content non-the less
The engine that I work with day in and day out are of course the FORD units. So my opinion is based on what I have seen in this area predominately in the automotive industry. The 4.6 and the 5.4 liter engines are designed to run on 87-octane fuel. When introducing the high 93 octane to an engine that does not require it, you will find the accumulation of carbon deposit the eventually lead to port restrictions. On an average when the vehicle is diagnosed with this concern is requires the tear down of the upper intake and the dislodging or removal of excessive carbon in the EGR ports in some case the EGR pressure sensor is also affected and replaced, retail price for repair is about $720.00 I found using the search engine that there is alot of controversy over this topic I encourage you to research it out for your self
here a link i found the was interesting
http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/hotrodoctane.html

People Still Run pump gas?? huh i even run VP C-12 in my daily driver  ;D


In short chuck is saying 93oct.=Drive it like you just stole it  ;)
Thats Why they make rev limiters

I geeked out for a second. got to get away from watching the discovery channel and Mr Science ;D

Haha,this 87vs93 is a age old battle!
i wonder what would happen if i put 93 in my quad haha
Ping,Ping,Snap,POW!!! ;)

i run VP's U2 at $68 for a 5 gallon pail i think im going poor.... :-[

All I know is I have seen what a piston out of a stock 400ex looks like after being run on 87 for six months looks like and it is not good, major carbon buildup. I run the least of a 50/50 110/93 mix in mine and even though the 250 doesn't require it it sure makes that air cooled motor run a lot cooler and smoother than it ever did on straight 93.  

Has anyone ever tried AVGAS 100 octane low lead in there guad? ::)

rumor is..... that avgas has an additive that keeps the fuel from freezing... not good on your reeds, seals.....

i run avgas in my 4-strokes, they run the same as they do on 87, but it has a sweet smell. ;D

avgas is rated for a constant rpm like 3,000 rpms for a rage of time.  avgas is not designed for drastic rpm changes.  enjoy the sweet smell while it last.

use a compression tester and call any feul manufacturer and they can explain to you what octane you should run.  VP fuel is a good source to talk to.  

I ran AVGAS in a 89 5.0 Mustang that had stock compression and it ran better than if I ran 93 octane in it. I have been told all kinds of stories about running AVGAS in cars and none of them have come true. It does run hotter but that is the only thing that I have noticed. I wanted to try some in my Warrior. And yes it does smell sweeeeet. ;D

Do you really see in increase in power using Avgas in a stock motor? It is a waste of money. You should use the lowest octane rating possible that allows your motor to run without pinging. The extra octane will only create more heat, (and if you know that whay would you continue to use it??) You should only use Avgas/race fuel if your compression ratio is over 12:1 other than that like is said before its a waste.

$13-14 a gallon for a stock motor, just because it smells good? I think you need to take a few more steps back from the tail pipe.

Where do you get that it creates more heat? I know the higher the octane the slower it burns but never heard of it creating more heat. I know from personal experiance that it causes the operating engine temperature to decrease drastically not increase.  ???

This is what i am reffering to.

i use bp or sunoco 93 for my ride.. cant say that its so much better, but i dont think its a waste of money, time, or effort to use it.

and since i use 93 in the car as well i dont have to switch octanes at the pump saving me milli seconds on each fill up.

BTW: does anyone use fuel additive like octane boosters of marvel mystery oil..

i run avgas in both my quads the 450 runs hell of alot better with it and its only 2.45 a gallon .
and the rumor bout aditives in un true atleast if its for smaller planes i live on a airport and talked to all my neibors taht fly there is no addiitive  in av100ll  just has a dye in it so you know that its diff . blue dye i belive

i would love to take two identical bikes and park them next to each other.  put 93 octane in one and avgas in another and have people tell me which one was which, or see some dyno results from avgas.  I mean I would love to find out what the actual #'s are.  Lots of times, people think it is performing better because they did something.  If I can find the write up on avgas I will scan it and post on here.  

I think its a placebo. You want it to work, therefore you think its working and you think there is a difference, but in actuallity there is not one.
I do agree with dookie though, what I am pumping into my truck is what goes into my ATV.
Next time you are at a atv race ask them what they are using. I bet its not race fuel unless they have major motor mods, i.e. strokers, high compression and big bores. Not just simple pipes, jets and filters.

at the sand drags in saltsdale, everyone is basically running race fuel, i prefer VP racing fuel.  i run 112 in my banshee and 93 in the grizzly.  

Yes I have noticed an increase in power in my Mustang, that is why I asked about running it in a quad. The motor was not stock in the Mustang. but the compression was. BTW AVGAS is not $13 to $14 a gallon, it is more like $2 to $3. It seems to burn very clean and that is one of the reasons I like it not the way it smells. Try it sometime you might like it.
::)

This is how I arrived at the price per gallon, I'm glad to hear you don't pay as much. I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. If it makes you feel better then just do it. I can see using it for a purpose built racer i.e. sand drags,  but not an everyday trail bike. But if you feel you need it and inhences your bike then its all yours.

I was talking about U2 not avgas....

U2 is way more expensive because it is oxygenaited. ( has liquid oxygen mixed with the fuel)
regular race fuel isnt....

I think VP's 110 is 5.50 a gallon so thats 27.50 for 5 gallons.


U2 is for 2 strokes and U4 is for the 4 bangin fellas...
also since U2 and U4 have oxygen you have to fatten up the jetting there for you use more fuel which = more $$$.

call bullfrog performance in dade city (might be zephyerhills)
he sells all kinds of VP fuel.

i ran 110 in my 450r 2 times and i will never do it again. it ran noticeably hotter  and was much harder to crank. that was my experience

that sounds about right.. its gotta be hurting something at that point(higher octaine

I thought so, I'm looking for an old article I have on the subject. if I find it I'l post it.

Looks like I created a monster starting this thread. The reason I asked was I saw on another forum that a guy's Kawasaki woudn't run after switching from 87 to 93. I used to run 93 in my 86 Suzuki intruder and it ran great. I would switch if I thought it would help but it looks like there is no clear cut answer.

What kind of proof do they have? Any dyno results or SETP reports?

No need anything more than 87 octane in a stock engine. Higher octane rating does not mean more latent chemical engergy. The higher octane rated fuels have additives to stop he pinging or knocking associated with pre-detonation.

The octane number is a measure of a fuel’s resistance to pinging/knocking. This pinging or knocking occurs when a fuel does not burn consistently across a combustion chamber. Instead, while the flame is spreading across the chamber, others areas of the fuel beginnng burning spontaneously, causing a violent collision of the flame front. Which is what causes the pinging. Raising the octane number of the fuel makes the fuel burn consistently across the combustion chamber. Severe damage can occur if an engine pings or knocks for long periods of time. Up until the mid-seventies, tetra-ethyl lead was added to the gas at the refinery to raise the octane of pump gas and to provide a protective barrier for valve seats. It was phased out after it was found a health hazard. Today’s valve seats are hardened and do not require this protection. The old valve seats are soft and will micro-weld. And the slow recession of the valve seat under high temperature conditions.

octane links:
http://f.about.com/z/js/spr00.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm
http://www.cyber-north.com/autotipnet/octane.html


This was posted by Txdoc2 in the Highlifter.com forum, so I will not take credit for it.

Check out the links for the CORRECT HONEST THIRD-PARTY info.

Below is an exerpt from the second link written by the Federal Trade Commision (FTC):

Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?
As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.

Use this info and judge for yourself.

Shotgun- This was a great topic it got every's blood going. We get to see that evreyone has an idea or point to make right wrong or indifferent.

the spark knock was the reason i ran the 93 and the heat was just so apparent when i used the 110 that i went back to the 93 and wont change again unless it means walking ;)

Higher octane is suppose to make and engine run cooler .. Though when I was running like 100 octane there for a while  i was running like  50/50 93 and 100 and it seemed to run better , but Def. was running warmer ... Now I run like 10% 100 and 90 % 93 and it runs great , I can run Pure 93 and it runs fine also but it does seem that the 100 gives it little more kick ....

Also Running Vp in a stock mustang thats is like 10/1 cr is a waste of the time/money only difference your noticing is in you head !


I run 104 at the Track in my car  when I running a big shot of giggle gas and not to mention its a 12/5/1 cr  Motor , The reason for this  is to prevent denation and leaning out of the motor while spraying .... When I drive the car on the street I run pure 93 If I know I'am going to be racing I'll throw a few gallons of 100/104 in the tank ..


I know quite a few guys who run AV gas in there cars and none of them have had any problems .. also know of a few engine builder who put 100+ octane on cars with freshly built high CR motors that are untuned to prevent detnation on start up ..


ED

We run 110 with 175 lbs of compression in the banshee.  I wouldnt run anything more than what it needs compression and timing wise, because it is a waste of money.  I have ran on the same motor 93 pump, 50/50 race gas mix, 110 vp. 112 vp, and 116 vp and noticed no difference in my 300ft times.

you have to be kidding badcompany....i mean when i run 100 octane instead of 93, i swear I am picking up a 1/2 second in 300 foot.....i can just feel it man......

Thank you lord that someone has actually put some truth up on this topic.  Thank you badcompany.  This is exactly what i was referring too.

Yea a bunch of people think just by increasing octane you are automatically faster, i wish we could run 87, it would be alot cheaper.

BTW, smoke, too bad you don't get a half of a second, you might actually be able to keep up, i doubt it though.