ATV Florida Forum

Okay, so I am beginning to get bored. Nobody is arguing or posting idiotic stuff that warrants sarcasm and mental flogging. Come on folks! Can't someone start some in depth debates on a subject near and dear to many?   :D

I believe that our society becoming dumber. The number of intelligent people are declining. There is is just too much idiocracy in the word to ignore this epidemic.   :banghead.gif

  How about how the hell can we stop the price of crude oil. After all, we freed a Dam country and we're killing all their scumbags for them. You'd think somebody would break us off!!

Garfield, Re: the oil crisis

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/splinter6/Garfield.jpg)

A lot of folks can't understand how we came

to have an oil shortage here in our country.

~~~

Well, there's a very simple answer.

~~~

Nobody bothered to check the oil.

~~~

We just didn't know we were getting low.

~~~

The reason for that is purely geographical.

~~~

Our OIL is located in

~~~

ALASKA

~~~

California

~~~

Coastal Florida

~~~

Coastal Louisiana

~~~

Kansas

~~~

Oklahoma

~~~

Pennsylvania

and

Texas

~~~

Our

DIPSTICKS

are located in

Washington, DC!!!

Any Questions???

..... Didn't think So.

Hmmm, thats all good stuff and I can't disagree with any of it.


How about this????

I think the Catholic Church is inherently evil and promulgates falsehoods based upon religious beliefs.

 :o

Yep. Catholicism is a total lie.

I have to disagree, Catholicism, along with most other religions, are not a total lie, it's the interpretation and use of the religion on an organized basis for personal/political gain that's a total lie.  The same people you see in Church on Sunday are the same people trying to screw over their neighbor the minute the leave.

Maybe the use of the word "total" was stretching it a bit.

Religion period, is all BS. ;)

There's a bill in front of Congress right now that they are trying to pass a law that makes it illegal to have a Catholic church within 500 ft of an elementary school.... ;D

When Clinton left office gas was $1.42 a gallon. :'( I miss those day's

But cigar prices were on the rise  :-\

Well, my point on the Catholic Church is that they base their interpretations on complete falsehoods.

And, I am not making an argument for any of my personal beliefs here. Just pointing out hypocrisy.
 
Examples:

The word "catholic" is not in the bible.

Bible says nothing about Jesus being catholic.

No such thing in the bible as a pope

No such thing in the bible as mass.

No such thing in the bible as confession.

No such thing in the bible as purgatory.

The Bible never says anything about tithing to "buy" your way out of purgatory and into heaven.

Bible makes no mention of Mary being catholic.

Catholicism advocates "praying" to dead "saints"....the bible prohibits this entirely.

Catholicism basically instills the belief that one can "buy" their way into heaven with giving to the church and through good acts. However, this is the same Church that made (and is still making) conscious attempts to cover up rampant child molestation through it's ranks. In addition, you can't find a place in the bible where giving will get you into heaven.

Anoriginal, I hate to say this but your point about the Catholic Church was faced during the Age of Enlightenment. We all know what happened then. Old News good friend.

perhaps this is why I am a lasped Catholic.

If I can elaborate.  When a plague spread across Europe, people went to the Catholic Church praying for help from God. When the people realized that the church could not help them they stop believing the church and people like Martin Luther became popular because they brought new ideas.  I could use this a a reference to GWB. People became wise to his BS and  are very ready for new ideas..change.

Good point, but I am not sure how an 18th Century push in western philosophy impacts today's ongoing issues. The only thing that happened to the Catholic Church at the end of the 18th Century was an increase in membership and control [albeit to a lesser growth rate than previously enjoyed].

Now, if we're talking the 16th century and the era of reformation, Luther, Calvin..etc. That's a different story. However, the only thing that resulted from reformation was a split in the church into equally bizzare religions not based on the bible (like  the Lutherans, The Reformed, The Calivinists, Presbyterians, etc.) with the Catholic Church remaining the most powerful and bizzare of all. All of this started with Luther challenging the Catholic Church's creed and practices by posting his own set of "rules" on a catholic church.

God I love world history.

Very well said!!  You were very loaded for the response you gave. Critical thinking.

Being Catholic I would love to engage in this conversation but unfortunately work does not allow me the time to respond right now.  I will put together a well thought out response later tonight to address Anoriginal's concerns.

I look forward to an educated debate. One rule though, no Ad Hominem.

Don't hurt yourself. Thinking can be very painful for some people. Just look at our President!

2 Rules. Never forget the Godwin Law!!!

Oh Great! a Hitler reference

IS there something wrong with that?

I will sit this one out due to my often controversial views on organized religion, I will however be watching very closely.

...and to add to Anoriginals "Catholic and not in the Bible" list:

no eating meat on Friday...it used to be EVERY Friday.
Praying to statues... what about the whole "Idol Worship" thing....


don't get me started....

a former catholic.

I had an Colonoscopy the other day.  :P

And another thing to ponder...

It pisses me off to no end the continued pussification of the American Male!!
Political correctness, getting in touch with your inner child, and all that crap!!

Oh come on man....pitch in. Although I think this is a place where you, Trx#9 and I all share common views.  ;)

I hope your not billing some poor bastard for all your internet research / discussion time?

ugh, i went through that a few years back.  i feel you

Thats what the Dr said.  :o

...as the doctor had one hand on each shoulder.... :D

lol........

exactly...any time someone is near my rearend when I'm unconcious, it's something I don't like to remember...and if i find out the dr was smiling during the procedure, watch out brother

I think there have been studies that show that the higher educated people in society do not reproduce as much as the high school drop outs (not to stereo type) 1 kid vs. 9 BaBa's kids

 Fish...Finally something you and I can agree on. Carry on Matt...I also will watch from the side lines to see what information wanders into the arena to be crucified

My first one was a little rough but after the 3rd or 4th one I almost enjoyed it  ;D.................ok, I lied, I was just trying to connect the dots the priest and the molestation thing.

Nevermind.............

amen, are you going to the HS this weekend?

You are right, sounds like we might agree on this but I don't know anything about the Catholics except I don't agree with most of the things they do.

those rules are called the 95 theses,

Out of love for the truth and the desire to bring it to light, the following propositions will be discussed at Wittenberg, under the presidency of the Reverend Father Martin Luther, Master of Arts and of Sacred Theology, and Lecturer in Ordinary on the same at that place. Wherefore he requests that those who are unable to be present and debate orally with us, may do so by letter.

In the Name our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

1. Our Lord and Master Jesus Christ, when He said Poenitentiam agite, willed that the whole life of believers should be repentance.

2. This word cannot be understood to mean sacramental penance, i.e., confession and satisfaction, which is administered by the priests.

3. Yet it means not inward repentance only; nay, there is no inward repentance which does not outwardly work divers mortifications of the flesh.

4. The penalty [of sin], therefore, continues so long as hatred of self continues; for this is the true inward repentance, and continues until our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

5. The pope does not intend to remit, and cannot remit any penalties other than those which he has imposed either by his own authority or by that of the Canons.

6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring that it has been remitted by God and by assenting to God's remission; though, to be sure, he may grant remission in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in such cases were despised, the guilt would remain entirely unforgiven.

7. God remits guilt to no one whom He does not, at the same time, humble in all things and bring into subjection to His vicar, the priest.

8. The penitential canons are imposed only on the living, and, according to them, nothing should be imposed on the dying.

9. Therefore the Holy Spirit in the pope is kind to us, because in his decrees he always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity.

10. Ignorant and wicked are the doings of those priests who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penances for purgatory.

11. This changing of the canonical penalty to the penalty of purgatory is quite evidently one of the tares that were sown while the bishops slept.

12. In former times the canonical penalties were imposed not after, but before absolution, as tests of true contrition.

13. The dying are freed by death from all penalties; they are already dead to canonical rules, and have a right to be released from them.

14. The imperfect health [of soul], that is to say, the imperfect love, of the dying brings with it, of necessity, great fear; and the smaller the love, the greater is the fear.

15. This fear and horror is sufficient of itself alone (to say nothing of other things) to constitute the penalty of purgatory, since it is very near to the horror of despair.

16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ as do despair, almost-despair, and the assurance of safety.

17. With souls in purgatory it seems necessary that horror should grow less and love increase.

18. It seems unproved, either by reason or Scripture, that they are outside the state of merit, that is to say, of increasing love.

19. Again, it seems unproved that they, or at least that all of them, are certain or assured of their own blessedness, though we may be quite certain of it.

20. Therefore by "full remission of all penalties" the pope means not actually "of all," but only of those imposed by himself.

21. Therefore those preachers of indulgences are in error, who say that by the pope's indulgences a man is freed from every penalty, and saved;

22. Whereas he remits to souls in purgatory no penalty which, according to the canons, they would have had to pay in this life.

23. If it is at all possible to grant to any one the remission of all penalties whatsoever, it is certain that this remission can be granted only to the most perfect, that is, to the very fewest.

24. It must needs be, therefore, that the greater part of the people are deceived by that indiscriminate and highsounding promise of release from penalty.

25. The power which the pope has, in a general way, over purgatory, is just like the power which any bishop or curate has, in a special way, within his own diocese or parish.

26. The pope does well when he grants remission to souls [in purgatory], not by the power of the keys (which he does not possess), but by way of intercession.

27. They preach man who say that so soon as the penny jingles into the money-box, the soul flies out [of purgatory].

28. It is certain that when the penny jingles into the money-box, gain and avarice can be increased, but the result of the intercession of the Church is in the power of God alone.

29. Who knows whether all the souls in purgatory wish to be bought out of it, as in the legend of Sts. Severinus and Paschal.

30. No one is sure that his own contrition is sincere; much less that he has attained full remission.

31. Rare as is the man that is truly penitent, so rare is also the man who truly buys indulgences, i.e., such men are most rare.

32. They will be condemned eternally, together with their teachers, who believe themselves sure of their salvation because they have letters of pardon.

33. Men must be on their guard against those who say that the pope's pardons are that inestimable gift of God by which man is reconciled to Him;

34. For these "graces of pardon" concern only the penalties of sacramental satisfaction, and these are appointed by man.

35. They preach no Christian doctrine who teach that contrition is not necessary in those who intend to buy souls out of purgatory or to buy confessionalia.

36. Every truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt, even without letters of pardon.

37. Every true Christian, whether living or dead, has part in all the blessings of Christ and the Church; and this is granted him by God, even without letters of pardon.

38. Nevertheless, the remission and participation [in the blessings of the Church] which are granted by the pope are in no way to be despised, for they are, as I have said, the declaration of divine remission.

39. It is most difficult, even for the very keenest theologians, at one and the same time to commend to the people the abundance of pardons and [the need of] true contrition.

40. True contrition seeks and loves penalties, but liberal pardons only relax penalties and cause them to be hated, or at least, furnish an occasion [for hating them].

41. Apostolic pardons are to be preached with caution, lest the people may falsely think them preferable to other good works of love.

42. Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend the buying of pardons to be compared in any way to works of mercy.

43. Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better work than buying pardons;

44. Because love grows by works of love, and man becomes better; but by pardons man does not grow better, only more free from penalty.

45. 45. Christians are to be taught that he who sees a man in need, and passes him by, and gives [his money] for pardons, purchases not the indulgences of the pope, but the indignation of God.

46. Christians are to be taught that unless they have more than they need, they are bound to keep back what is necessary for their own families, and by no means to squander it on pardons.

47. Christians are to be taught that the buying of pardons is a matter of free will, and not of commandment.

48. Christians are to be taught that the pope, in granting pardons, needs, and therefore desires, their devout prayer for him more than the money they bring.

49. Christians are to be taught that the pope's pardons are useful, if they do not put their trust in them; but altogether harmful, if through them they lose their fear of God.

50. Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the pardon-preachers, he would rather that St. Peter's church should go to ashes, than that it should be built up with the skin, flesh and bones of his sheep.

51. Christians are to be taught that it would be the pope's wish, as it is his duty, to give of his own money to very many of those from whom certain hawkers of pardons cajole money, even though the church of St. Peter might have to be sold.

52. The assurance of salvation by letters of pardon is vain, even though the commissary, nay, even though the pope himself, were to stake his soul upon it.

53. They are enemies of Christ and of the pope, who bid the Word of God be altogether silent in some Churches, in order that pardons may be preached in others.

54. Injury is done the Word of God when, in the same sermon, an equal or a longer time is spent on pardons than on this Word.

55. It must be the intention of the pope that if pardons, which are a very small thing, are celebrated with one bell, with single processions and ceremonies, then the Gospel, which is the very greatest thing, should be preached with a hundred bells, a hundred processions, a hundred ceremonies.

56. The "treasures of the Church," out of which the pope. grants indulgences, are not sufficiently named or known among the people of Christ.

57. That they are not temporal treasures is certainly evident, for many of the vendors do not pour out such treasures so easily, but only gather them.

58. Nor are they the merits of Christ and the Saints, for even without the pope, these always work grace for the inner man, and the cross, death, and hell for the outward man.

59. St. Lawrence said that the treasures of the Church were the Church's poor, but he spoke according to the usage of the word in his own time.

60. Without rashness we say that the keys of the Church, given by Christ's merit, are that treasure;

61. For it is clear that for the remission of penalties and of reserved cases, the power of the pope is of itself sufficient.

62. The true treasure of the Church is the Most Holy Gospel of the glory and the grace of God.

63. But this treasure is naturally most odious, for it makes the first to be last.

64. On the other hand, the treasure of indulgences is naturally most acceptable, for it makes the last to be first.

65. Therefore the treasures of the Gospel are nets with which they formerly were wont to fish for men of riches.

66. The treasures of the indulgences are nets with which they now fish for the riches of men.

67. The indulgences which the preachers cry as the "greatest graces" are known to be truly such, in so far as they promote gain.

68. Yet they are in truth the very smallest graces compared with the grace of God and the piety of the Cross.

69. Bishops and curates are bound to admit the commissaries of apostolic pardons, with all reverence.

70. But still more are they bound to strain all their eyes and attend with all their ears, lest these men preach their own dreams instead of the commission of the pope.

71. He who speaks against the truth of apostolic pardons, let him be anathema and accursed!

72. But he who guards against the lust and license of the pardon-preachers, let him be blessed!

73. The pope justly thunders against those who, by any art, contrive the injury of the traffic in pardons.

74. But much more does he intend to thunder against those who use the pretext of pardons to contrive the injury of holy love and truth.

75. To think the papal pardons so great that they could absolve a man even if he had committed an impossible sin and violated the Mother of God -- this is madness.

76. We say, on the contrary, that the papal pardons are not able to remove the very least of venial sins, so far as its guilt is concerned.

77. It is said that even St. Peter, if he were now Pope, could not bestow greater graces; this is blasphemy against St. Peter and against the pope.

78. We say, on the contrary, that even the present pope, and any pope at all, has greater graces at his disposal; to wit, the Gospel, powers, gifts of healing, etc., as it is written in I. Corinthians xii.

79. To say that the cross, emblazoned with the papal arms, which is set up [by the preachers of indulgences], is of equal worth with the Cross of Christ, is blasphemy.

80. The bishops, curates and theologians who allow such talk to be spread among the people, will have an account to render.

81. This unbridled preaching of pardons makes it no easy matter, even for learned men, to rescue the reverence due to the pope from slander, or even from the shrewd questionings of the laity.

82. To wit: -- "Why does not the pope empty purgatory, for the sake of holy love and of the dire need of the souls that are there, if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a Church? The former reasons would be most just; the latter is most trivial."

83. Again: -- "Why are mortuary and anniversary masses for the dead continued, and why does he not return or permit the withdrawal of the endowments founded on their behalf, since it is wrong to pray for the redeemed?"

84. Again: -- "What is this new piety of God and the pope, that for money they allow a man who is impious and their enemy to buy out of purgatory the pious soul of a friend of God, and do not rather, because of that pious and beloved soul's own need, free it for pure love's sake?"

85. Again: -- "Why are the penitential canons long since in actual fact and through disuse abrogated and dead, now satisfied by the granting of indulgences, as though they were still alive and in force?"

86. Again: -- "Why does not the pope, whose wealth is to-day greater than the riches of the richest, build just this one church of St. Peter with his own money, rather than with the money of poor believers?"

87. Again: -- "What is it that the pope remits, and what participation does he grant to those who, by perfect contrition, have a right to full remission and participation?"

88. Again: -- "What greater blessing could come to the Church than if the pope were to do a hundred times a day what he now does once, and bestow on every believer these remissions and participations?"

89. "Since the pope, by his pardons, seeks the salvation of souls rather than money, why does he suspend the indulgences and pardons granted heretofore, since these have equal efficacy?"

90. To repress these arguments and scruples of the laity by force alone, and not to resolve them by giving reasons, is to expose the Church and the pope to the ridicule of their enemies, and to make Christians unhappy.

91. If, therefore, pardons were preached according to the spirit and mind of the pope, all these doubts would be readily resolved; nay, they would not exist.

92. Away, then, with all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, "Peace, peace," and there is no peace!

93. Blessed be all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, "Cross, cross," and there is no cross!

94. Christians are to be exhorted that they be diligent in following Christ, their Head, through penalties, deaths, and hell;

95. And thus be confident of entering into heaven rather through many tribulations, than through the assurance of peace.

yes this is a cut and paste job, it is a english translation version.....

source: http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/web/ninetyfive.html

Wow what started as a joke has gotten really serious.

Alright Anoriginal, here is some fuel for the fire.  Some of my responses are short only because I have been working 14 hour days since January and its starting to take its toll on me.  But nonetheless, enjoy.

Well, my point on the Catholic Church is that they base their interpretations on complete falsehoods.  And, I am not making an argument for any of my personal beliefs here. Just pointing out hypocrisy.
Response: Your belief in the falsehoods and hypocrisy of the Catholic Church are founded on your misinterpretation.
 
Examples:

The word "catholic" is not in the bible. 
Response: The word catholic comes from the Latin word "catholicus" meaning universal.  In a Biblical sense Christians are united in our belief in Jesus Christ.

Bible says nothing about Jesus being catholic. 
Response: This comment is irrelevant as Jesus followed the Jewish tradition.  Only through Jesus' fulfillment of the prophecy and will of God by dying on the cross for our salvation did he essentially start the Christian movement.   

No such thing in the bible as a pope
Response:  The church traces its origins of the Pope to the Twelve Apostles, and sees the bishops of the church as the successors of the Apostles in general, and the Pope as the successor of Saint Peter, leader of the Apostles, in particular Saint Peter was the first Pope. The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 16, gives the account of Christ's consecration of Peter with the words "...you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven".

No such thing in the bible as mass.
Response: The word mass comes from the latin word "missa" meaning to send away or dismiss.  Throughout the Bible, Jesus' teachings to the people often carried Christ's command to his followers to go into the world to teach all nations when He said "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".  Thus, Jesus effectively led "mass" every time he preached his message.  The fact that the Bible does not specifically mention a "mass" is irrelevant as the concept is clearly evidenced.

No such thing in the bible as confession.
Response: Throughout Jesus' encounters with prostitutes and other sinners in the Bible, they would often feel ashamed of themselves and ultimately "confessed" their sins to Jesus.  The purpose of Catholic confession is to have the priest provide guidance with your shortcomings and help lead you from temptation to sin again.  Sins cannot be truly forgiven unless you are truly sorry with all your heart.  Therefore the fact that the Bible does not specifically mention confession is irrelevant as the act of confession is clearly evident.

No such thing in the bible as purgatory.
Response: Purgatory is a temporary place for purification of souls who are not free enough from sin to enter directly into heaven. The church asks for and encourages prayers for these souls especially at Mass. Those who freely chose a life of sin and selfishness, were not sorry for their sins and had no intention of changing their ways go to Hell. Hell is everlasting separation from God. According to church belief, no one is condemned to hell without freely deciding to reject God and his love.

The Bible never says anything about tithing to "buy" your way out of purgatory and into heaven.   
Response: This comment is irrelevant as The Catholic Church does not teach this either and your comment is based on speculation.

Bible makes no mention of Mary being catholic.
Response: Irrelevant as Mary is the mother of Jesus and undoubtedly believed that He is the Son of God.

Catholicism advocates "praying" to dead "saints"....the bible prohibits this entirely.
Response: Catholic belief holds that the church exists both on earth and in heaven simultaneously and thus, the Virgin Mary and the saints are alive and part of the living church. Prayers and devotions to Mary and the saints are common practices in Catholic life. These devotions are not worship, since only God is worshiped. The church teaches that the saints "do not cease to intercede with the Father for us... So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped".


Catholicism basically instills the belief that one can "buy" their way into heaven with giving to the church and through good acts.
Response:  Irrelevant according to my response above regarding tithing.

However, this is the same Church that made (and is still making) conscious attempts to cover up rampant child molestation through it's ranks.
Response:  This comment is a generality and assumes that child molestation only plagues Catholic priests.  I invite you to visit the FDLE website and see that child molesters come from all creeds and backgrounds.

 In addition, you can't find a place in the bible where giving will get you into heaven.
Response: This is not the teaching of the Catholic faith either and is based on speculation.

Whether or not you agree with Catholicism, you can't deny the fact that they are the hottest girls.  I thoroughly enjoyed my Catholic education.

I'm watching an other episode of SMOKE AND MIRRORS. :Dead.gif
I'm too lazy, It's all you big A

That was well thought out.. its like you was writing an essay for school lol

   This is getting to be too much to read.  I was in a Foster home when I was younger.They made me go to Catholic school.I thought it was a great place to meet hott chics!!
   I made out a couple of times in the confession booth.

 The single cause for atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door and deny him by their life style. That is what an unbelieving world finds unbelievable. The greatest sin of the modern world is its lewdness & its busyness.  We live in the most Distracted, frenetic society of all time.  It is tempting in such a society to think we are good Christians and deserve applause because we look at God from time to time out of the corners of our eyes.
But the fullness of truth, the fullness of life, the fullness of grace deserves our full attention.  Jesus really cannot be merely a part of one's life, but must be the center of one's life.  It does not mean that our lives can't be full of activities.  But unless we preserve some quiet time each day to sit at His feet as did Mary, our action will become distraction

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=240ad5b9b413aa7346a1
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=d1345dd8fe4e481144d8
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=3bb12d203f45a912eeaf
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=c5e5d1c6e28598e8cbbe
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=7b7e580d659feb6f60c1
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=7e407752fe773eed2063
 

So whos going riding this weekend?



No, I wish I was. I'm busy helping my mom sort of everthing since my father past.

Subject: Taxes For your information
 
 
Since it's Income Tax time, here's something about your Taxes.
This is interesting. Just compare the taxes.
 Source:  www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

      Taxes under Clinton 1999           Taxes under Bush 2008

      Single making 30K - tax $8,400            Single making 30K - tax $4,500

      Single making 50K - tax $14,000          Single making 50K - tax $12,500

      Single making 75K - tax $23,250          Single making 75K - tax $18,750

      Married making 60K - tax $16,800         Married making 60K- tax $9,000

      Married making 75K - tax $21,000         Married making 75K - tax $18,750

      Married making 125K - tax $38,750       Married making 125K - tax $31,250

If you want to know just how effective the mainstream media is, it is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is
screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever.
If any Democrat is elected, ALL of them say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen.
This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.
Additionally, Hillary says that she will, '...garnish wages...' for more taxes.
Liberalism is a mental disorder!
 
 
Just saying!!

GOOD POST

That site has their numbers wrong. I made between thirty and forty thousand last year. I paid over eight thousand for 2007.

Forrest for the Trees.

And   

As far as the Catholic discussion:  There is no right and no wrong to this discussion. There is no one true doctrine. Only majority belief and faith. This all comes down to each individual persons personal beliefs. No one on this planet can tell you what you believe is right or wrong unless there are facts to say other wise.

What I mean in my last statement is for example: A lot of people believe OJ Simpson is guilty, however he was found innocent, this is a fact.

Okay, I can partially respond to the Catholic Church Debate at this time. I'll get to the rest when I can.

First: About there being no Pope in the Bible and the entire mess about Peter being the Pope, etc.

The Pontiff title is a religious title stolen from the high priest of the temple of Jove. Peter never was a pope and never was the recognized leader of the Christian Church. He was given the keys to the Kingdom in Matthew 16:19 but these when used on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2 ), in Samaria (Acts 8), and in Caesarea (Acts 10), afterward ceasing to be needed. According to the bible, once the gates to the Kingdom were opened no man could shut them. No where in the Bible did Peter pass these keys on to a successor.

Jacob (James) the firstborn son of Mary by Joseph after Jesus was born is the one the Bible calls the father of the New Testement church. Peter never was the head of the Christian Church so he could not have been the first pope of a fictitious Catholic church. The invention of a Gentile pope to run the Catholic church was in the fourth century. The title Pontiff is not in the Bible any where (it is another Catholic falsehood).

The whole idea, theory, and development of a succession of popes from Peter to the present pope is a complete fraud. There is no pope in the Bible and there never was a pope over the true Christian Church. You will not find a religious system with nuns, monks, archbishops, cardinals, prelates, and popes anywhere in the Bible.

Second: Mass and the manner the Catholic Church uses it.

Granted, if you use the latin meaning, it's applicable. But, lets face it. Catholic's don't use the Latin meaning in practice.  The whole priest drinking from the cup and eating the IHS wafer exists no place in the Bible. Rather, its another pagan ritual stolen from the worshipers in teh temple of Jove. Yep, this is the way they worshiped their dieties. Not a Christian practice. It's nothing more than a false sacrifice.

Third: Confession per Catholic.

I probably shoudl have been a bit more detailed in my first dash at this subject. Confession certainly exists in the bible.  However, not as practiced in the Catholic Church. In the bible, confession is treated as something to be done privately between you and God. That's it.....nothing more. No place in the bible does it say you have to go to a minister, preacher or priest to confess in some little wooden box. Then, you can't find any place in the bible where saying a bunch of pre-scripted verses (hail Mary, etc.) will somehow wash your sins away. So, confession as practiced in the Catholic Church is a total lie.

Fourth: Purgatory, Neverland and Narnia.

Like I said before, you cannot find any mention or argument anywhere in the bible that supports purgatory. It's a lie. That's that.

Fifth: Buying your way into Heaven.

I should have been more clear here too. Because the falsity of purgatory is followed in the Catholic Church, tons and tons of catholics get priests to say a special mass for their deceased loved ones who may have dies with "immortal sins" on their soul. Becuas eof thier beliefs, a catholic thinks that the only way for these loved ones to escape purgatory is to have these special prayers and masses completed. So, they pay tons of money over the years to get these special masses performed.....thus buying their way to heaven. Many Catholic Churches encourage pre-payment arrangements for these types of masses. Good business huh?

Not sure anything else needs to be addressed.

Shouldn't we be paying more taxes during a war period rather than borrowing billions from china?
I've made roughly the same amount since 97' and I'm paying about the same. I rather pay a little more in taxes than have the country fall flat on its face in a few years!
Chuck Norris please don't post anymore of those dumb ass video's, which really hurt your cause rather than help it. ;) If I need to get brain washed I'll go to church.

Could not have said it better myself  :Clap.gif