ATV Florida Forum

Who's going to be there? A few of us went out to the track today and it was great!!! Lets try to get an even bigger turnout at this one!

we will be there, hopefully Friday night.  Have they changed the track any?

I'm not sure. I wasn't there last year. I will say that it will  be  a fun race for sure!

Ill be there. ;) Wont be racing but ill be watching.  :( See everyone there!!

I will most likely be there for pictures so hopefully i'll be allowed on the track.  Please please please get in touch with me before you ride! I only take pictures of those who ask, its just too many to go through if i take them of everyone.  It's $20 for pictures for the weekend ($10 for saturday and $10 for sunday if youre only there one day).

we should be there.. im hoping they have made some changes to the track to make it a bit more wider than last time becasue if we get a turnout like we did in lakeland i dont think theres going to be much room on the track for passing!

We will be there. It should be a fun weekend with a great turnout.

MAN!!! its 30 bucks per person to get in on sat!! thats twice as much as lakeland!! i know they have other events but i can care less about that crap! i dont know if we wil make it now

It was the same thing as last season, which is why I also didn't go. Do I have the money? Yes, but I don't like giving it away either. I think they need to possibly charge the average $15-20 gate fee for the MX ONLY riders and if you want to enjoy the other activities then you can pay the full price. I don't see the point in the racers paying the extra money for the concerts, events, and other stuff that goes on if we're just trying to do motocross. I'll be there regardless this weekend, but I know the heavy gate fee will turn people away for sure.

They should give a special arm band for the MXer's and another band if we want to enjoy the rest of the park. Or we shouldn't pay for Saturday practice then if were paying full price at the gate.

This will be a good time for us to prove that our numbers are going to be consistant.  When we prove that then we will be able to do better on the gate fees.

Last year--there were 53 entries.  It is hard for a track or facility to come down on their regular prices with numbers like that.

Now if we can get the 170 entries with all the spectators that brings then we will be able to negotiate.

Yes more entries are great.  But how are you supposed to get more entries charging that gate fee?   If they want more entries they should lower the gate fee for the people that are just utilizing the MX area.  It's a simple way to encourage more people to come enjoy their MX track for a race.  Lower gate fee=more riders=more money.  If they looked at the numbers they would realize this.........53 entries at $30 a head is $1590.  Ok now 170 riders at $20= $3400..not to mention the friends and family that are going to be charged gate fees which is even more revenue.  Riders will appreciate the break and return and again more business=more money.   .......If they look at the numbers they'd realize they are only hurting themselves by charging that much to racers that are just using the MX track!!!!!!

53 entries at $30 each= $1590

170 entries at $20 each=$3400

do the math.........common L-Cross....you're only hurting your own income and losing potential return customers...........

exactly!!! what if the people are leaving sat. night and returning sunday? we should have our own wristband and the people who are willing to pay 30 can enjoy what they have 2 offer. im there to race not to listen to music and whatever else is going on

I know every penny counts these days, but this is $10 more than what some of the other tracks are charging(for Saturday entry, I think Lakeland is $20).  This isn't something they did just for our race, it's their normal gate fee.  This is a track that wants to host races for us, unlike some other tracks. The more entries we have to more leverage we have to negotiate such things as two types of arm bands, etc.  I don't think they did so well with our last race with 53 entries after they paid all their expenses. 

 thirty dollars is pretty  expensive !!!  especially  if you bring  all your family    family of 4 = big money  !! not counting on race fees  they  can lower the gate fee.  but  why should they   l-cross  is all about the money .   ???

I underand what everyone is saying but could you please tell me what you think it cost to put on a race?

Let me see, if I was a landowner in Florida would I want to provide part of my land and my weekends so quads and bikes could have a place to ride? To me the tracks do not owe us anything but we owe them because without people like Lakeland, L-Cross, Amp, Waldo and so on where would we race mx? I could go on and on but I will leave it with this. I hope we have another large turnout so the tracks really want us to return.

I understand what everyone is saying and I appreciate all the support from the tracks in Florida.  And I know any competitive event, especially a motocross race is costly in both time and money!  BUT....please read my earlier post...they are only hurting themselves by charging that much.  So they go to all the trouble to put on a race, charge $30 for a gate fee, and make half as much revenue....which means smaller profit!!!!!!!  People going there to race the MX track and not play in the mud or watch a concert should not have to pay the more expensive gate fee....it doesn't makes sense and it will hurt them on entries.  And you can also look at the fact that the people watching the concerts and playing in the mud.....don't pay an extra $20 on top of the $30 to play in the mud or watch a concert.  The racers practicing on Saturday will essentially be paying $50 to practice!  Yes we can hope people will show up to race because we need more entries..........you also have to think what time of the year it is.  IT"S THE HOLIDAYS and Christmas......if you have a family with a mom and a dad and two kids (may be only one is racing) that's $120 in gate fees!!!!  Which is $40 more than the average track.  I hope we do have at least 60 entries this weekend :(.   But the gate fee is going to be turning a lot of racers away when its Christmas time and not to mention crazy gas prices these days and the cost to even race quads!
   Sorry to go on a rant and I don’t mean to be stepping on toes here.........but if you think about this from a strictly business aspect......they are only hurting themselves.  If you think of it from a riders perspective, you either miss a race or spend that extra money for something you’re not even doing (concert and mudding)  :(

I wish L-Cross would reconsider.......170 entries would be AT LEAST $1,810 more money coming in this weekend verses the 53 entries from last time.

 ;D

Children 12 and under are only $5.00 not $30. People coming in on Sunday only pay $15.00. Do any of you know how much it cost for let's just say the Ambulance & insurance. Let's not even go into port-a-lets, garbage pick up, dumpsters.

I could go on for days,
Patti

i understan all the fees but why can every other track get away with charging only 15?

for those that attended the amp extreme race it cost 115.00 for fri evenng through sunday thats only 15.00 dollars less than l cross, what people dont understand , is that different places have different overhead than othes some already own the land some dont at least you know what it cost upfront unlike the moroso clusterf@#% we had last season they were all over the road, i understand everyones concerne about money, due to reasons other than the lcross gate fees we wont be there this race but if i could i would be there supporting the track  and more important supporting Brett and the ssqsa racing series, lets face it well spend stupid money on parts and ling for our rides, lets make sure we have a place and series to use them, suck it up quit griping about the cost and go race and enjoy the race and the people we race with because that is what its all about.   just my 2cent    Patrick Cullaton, Brad Cullaton  55 shifter, Corey Cullaton 70 moddified

I agree with ya R450 chick. Some how L cross is going to have to figure out if they want to be a competitive track in Florida. Just look at some other tracks that are successful in Florida Dade city, Bithlo, Sunshine, Riddick, lakeland just to name a few. There all doing pretty good because of there pricing.
 Don't get me wrong here I think its a pretty good deal for all the activity's that there is at L cross, if your there for everything. I think if they gave an option at the gate half the motocross riders would pay for the hole entertainment deal anyway's. The other half doesn't have utility quads and 4wd trucks to play in the mud, we just want to race! ;D

Well, aside from all the arguing, who will be there?
Jack Nitabach #113

Whats the best way to get there from the tampa area? And is there any hotels around?

Eric

Take Hwy 60 to Yeehaw Junction. Go South on 441 @ Yeehaw Junction. When you get to the town of Okeechobee go West on 78. Entrance to the property is about 12 miles. Better be looking for the small sign on the right.....very easy to miss........@ least it was last time. Follow dirt road to the back of property.....don't run over the cows :D

There are hotels and restaurants in the town of Okeechobee.

#12/T.C.'s dad
Tom

Thanks tom, so 441 faster than going 27.

Team TM Motorsports will be there.

Jack N.
Giovanni C.
Blake G.
Josh K.
Shelby Y.
Chris J.
Billy L.
Jason S.
Shawn C.
Jammie J.

Yeah........once you get past Bartow there's not much to slow you down

Good luck to all the riders this weekend.

T.C. and his mom will be there cheering you guys on. As for me I'm going to finally get in some hunting while I can!

 

its ben raining over there today so the track is going to be wet and supposed to rain again tomorow. so you wont catch me there paying $30 for a wet track and might come for the race.

Just finished talking with L-cross.  They have only got 1/4 in of rain and everything looks good.  See everyone in the morning.  Practice starts at 10:00.

It sounds like a bunch of winers on here, if you can't afford to race then take up kniting or something, $15.00 a day is chump change if you consider how much expense there is in making and maintaining a track not to mention buying the property, one piece of equipment is probably more than most make in a year. I am sure that l-cross as with any other track are not doing it because they have nothing better to do, it is a business and most business are susposed to make money...This is just part of the sport and I am sure everybody on here realizes what they are getting into when they bought a bike and started dumping lots of $$$$$$$ into it to be competive........

I just hope we have a good safe race and that the rain stays away.......

KEN

We are here, it's raining lightly but the track is still in good shape.  I think it will be fine - they haven't had any rain here since the FTR race in November.  The rain will help the dust.

Good I'll pass this on to the other tracks. :D

Hmmm...may be some people don't get the basics of business and making a profit....ha ha ha  ;D.............May be if you look at my earlier post.........I can't really break it down anymore.  lol.   The thing is.....whether 50 entries show up this weekend or 170 entries show up, the track will have the same fixed costs!!  Ambulance, flaggers, port-a-potties, trash cans, extra personnel, and concession stand(*cough cough*  track usually doesn't pay for that because it's someone else coming in and making money :-) )      I don't think L-Cross is going to rush in some extra port-a-potties if more then 60 entries show up  HA HA HA.   But who knows, charging that per person plus practice....they may have some on call :-).   If you understand what I'm saying here, it's pretty basic.  Whether the track has 50 entries or over 170 entries, their fixed expenses will be the same!!!!!!!!  Only thing I can see changing is more people=more trash so may be a little more money on trash pick up.  No matter what, it costs the same to get the port-a-potties rotated out, cleaned out, etc.  There will be the same amount of flaggers and an ambulance or paramedic if they're not so cheap they don't pay a medical guy to be out there for us :-) (which is a big No No not to have some type of emergency help there). Again, go ahead call us WHINERS or CHEAP or the more money you have the faster you will be (HA HA HA, it's who gets over the finish line first though the extra $$$ does give you a nice push) or super rich racers that like wasting our money (wealthy people don't squander money)or whatever other name you want to say..............but if you look at the basics of it.....it doesn't make sense for you to argue for the $30 gate fee.  That equipment you speak of, wasn't just purchased for this weekend.  And as for the use of real estate issue.......it is in the middle of nowhere!  They are a business and smart....running a track while sitting on a real estate investment!   All that surround those lands are small towns and sod farms for now.  They are pleasing guests by being gracious and letting us pay to enjoy their land, but it is a business.  But I’m done repeating myself.....if you don't get it...read my earlier posts.  The track will lose money and business by charging that gate fee.  Hope everyone has a safe and fun weekend :-)....and the rain holds off....  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Yo Brandon, Clear out your inbox...

Well like I said before $30.00 for a 2 day event is nothing, If you were to cheap to show up then you missed some good racing. 

Had a good turn out and no major accidents.  the weather today also turned out pretty good.....

Hope to see everyone at the next round..........KEN

WHAT A DAY !!!!

 Congrats to everyone !!! And congrats to the ATP Racing riders and customers !!!

There was a lot of great racing out their today. If you didnt come, you missed out.

Lets keep up these great turnouts. Heck ya never know, we might actually become a real quad series or somthing, LOL

Mike

i never heard a total number today.  hope it was good it seemed good but that place is spread out we had a great time and as far as the cost that was the cheapest to date for a family of 4 2 adults 2 kids under 12 $70.00 for two days keep up the good work lcross we will be back to practice

 :-*

Great race, Great event!! Hope everyone had a good time!! Thank you for letting us host your event! Look forward to many more. Don't forget the FTR Hair scramble
in January for those of you that are interested the dates are January 4th-5th. Racing on both Saturday and Sunday. Hope everyone has a SAFE & HAPPY HOLIDAY!!!

Thanks,
Mark and Patti Pearce

I don't know about gate entries, but I was told 111 race entries  8)

There were 108 entries.

That is just about double from what we did at their last race.

To: Everyone who has read this post, everyone who posted on this post and the Pearce family.

Please watch the attendance #'s for the rest of the series. No one who spends 10-20-100k or even more a year to race or for their kids to race is going to get upset about 10,20 or 100 dollars. It's the principal of the whole feeling like you were taken for a ride. If I was given one opportunity for 1 complaint, it would be making my 4 year old son sign a waiver of his rights which he can't do because HE CAN'T READ!!!!!!!! The judge who ruled the 8 year old that was killed at the other track "should have signed their own rights away because they're old enough to understand" is an idiot, should be removed from the bench and will be overturned on appeal (hopefully). 4,8,17, doesn't matter the age, if you're under 18, you can't waive any rights you have and that's why police can't question a minor suspect, even in a murder investigation w/o a parent's presence. For all of you wishing for a large attendance to prove Brett's point, you may just get what you want w/o getting your wish. Large attendance #'s at other, more competitively priced tracks will prove the point and maybe that's what needs to happen.
Emily has given an economics lesson that no one it seems has paid much attention to. Let me expand on this example:
Supply and demand;
The most basic of all economic laws which govern business, the larger the demand, the smaller the supply, the higher the price. The smaller the demand, the larger the supply, the smaller the price. So which end of the spectrum is the best for a business owner and the economy? Neither, it's the middle. Every business owner, conscious of it or not wants to realize the greatest profit in money, not in a % point. I don't know about you but I've never eaten a % and don't really want to try unless things get really bad. Somewhere in that "happy medium" is the greatest profit. With that being said, it takes some trial and error. Do you think Randy Yoho started this yesterday? He's the example of largest amount of riders @ the lowest price but I'm sure he's confident in the fact that that serves a greater purpose (ad revenue, sponsorships, kids going pro and getting your publicity for facilitating that, etc.,etc., etc.) and I'm positive he's reviewed the pricing @ his track many times over the years and has a strong belief that his plan is best for him. Just one example.

You get what you pay for;
There is another basic principal in economics, maybe not a law but if you look @ the way it works it's simple and effective. If you don't get what you pay for, you're not very willing to come back. This is very much a matter of opinion but relevant. If you do get what you pay for you should be more than willing to return for repeat business or to refer others. If you get way more than what you payed for, you can't wait for the opportunity to repeat the experience w/ that business owner. This principal however is very lopsided as it is emotional and opinion driven ("Treat me great and I'll tell 10 people, maybe 1 of which will listen. Treat me poorly and I'll tell 100 w/ a majority at least not willing to even try it and give the advice blindly to others.") and as a business owner, this is a hard lesson to learn; Try your best and hope you are rewarded, pi$$ a couple of the wrong people off and watch them attack like "Dog the Bounty Hunter" got his. Now he has to take little black kids out Chrismas shopping that just 2 months ago he was calling "little n's". Like I said, "tough lesson to learn".
So what's the point?
The point is, L-Cross may have gotten it wrong. Do you get what you pay for? Sure do, if you take advantage of it. Most didn't though and instead of making everyone who practiced buy a membership, charge everyone an insurance surcharge "due to a spike in recent MX related fatalities and serious injuries". Just a suggestion on how to word it so people are happy. You can still charge the same amount but differently, the way car dealers charge the"lowest price", then beat the rest of your money out of you in the "box" w/ ad fees, dealer fees, prep fees, surcharges, etc.

Our attendance will be weighed, like it or not, by several factors:
#1, How did we act as a group compared to other events that L-Cross puts on.
#2, Did the event turn a profit and is there a potential for a greater profit in the future.
#3, How much work went into planing this event.
#4, If there was a profit, was it worth the effort?
#5, What are the liabilities or potential liabilities for putting on such an event?

These are just a few of the considerations but some of the greatest. Just remember that a promoter can use their emotion to overrule business logic too. It's just as easy for a promoter to say no to a race or series as it is for a person to say "I'm not coming because of...". Although very little consideration should be made by what's said on here or in other forums, the fact remains that it could. My opinion, after consideration of what our experience was and what others have said, was an overall positive. 2 seasons now, 2 races total and no ambulance rides out? Maybe it's because no one wants to ride out on their back down that road to the highway, maybe it's because of the start, maybe it's a safe track? I don't have the answers but we will be back either way.
A few suggestions;
#1, Talk to the Flamingo Motel about a track discount, I don't think anyone would have a problem staying there (and I still can't understand why it's a Motel, not a Hotel?).
#2, Get the grading under control.
#3, Advertise!!! That doesn't mean spend money but on the web site the race was not even listed along w/ the whole month of December being listed as "To be announced" the day before the race, while the event was known months ahead of time. Learn from AmpXtreme. Those people promoted their own track and our event together and we had people from all over the Southeast US there to race.
#4, Don't clean the porta potties for at least an extra week. I went on a turd counting expedition and found very few and I personally think they could go an extra week. You could save a bit of money that way. Good job though, they were the cleanest ones I have ever been in and I've been in a lot.
#5, Stop whistling at people, we're not cattle dogs and dont respond to high pitched coded commands.
Thanks to all who expressed their opinion here or in person in helping me to formulate my own.

John W. Holliday #68 Adult Stock
Hunter Holliday #1 Still racing the "Special Olympics Class" where "everyones a winner" 50cc stock 4-6