ATV Florida Forum

it is gonna do more bad than good don't be fooled the only ones that win are insuance companys http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/hOkEeSriBnzibvKVmv

I hope that flat tracker weighs in on this. I think he's one of those EVIL insurance people.

So what does this mean in simple terms for me, the consumer?

One thing that it means is that if you get into an accident then the only people (dr's) that the ins company will pay is the hospital. Chiropractors are sh!t out of luck.

Mike you know QT will post here soon!

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/06/end-no-fault-auto-insurance-nears/?news-breaking more for you to read!!

 feel for her because if she is doing insurance work then business will be dead. Not to mention, Lawyers will stop referring to chiros because they will have to pay them out of their share of the 33%.

Yep

So are insurance rates going down or staying the same?

As no fault insurance stands what happens is your insurance on your vehicle is used if you are in an accident.  Regardless of if you are a passenger, driver, in your own vehicle, or someone elses vehicle.  Your insurance will cover you for 10K in medical bills minus any deductible.  Then the insurance companies attorneys go after the at fault drivers company for reimbursement.  Your companies insurance will go after the other company for both medical bills as well as any damages that have been paid out for your vehicle.

If it changes.  You will be required to get additional coverage, called Med Pay, under your auto policy to cover your medical bills. You will have to add uninsured motorists, as well, to cover a hit and run situation where you can't get the at fault drivers information.  If you do not purchase this coverage then your health insurance will be the ppl that pay your medical bills.  If you have no medical insurance you will be required to get an attorney and get them to sign basically a blank check to the Dr stating that when the litigation has ended that the dr's bills get paid first.

Two problems here. 
1. Medical insurance aka group insurance through work only pays dr's 1/3 of the dr's bill.  In addition you will be required to pay your deductibles and co pays during treatment.  Most of these plans reduce your care by either limiting visits (avg is 20 visits/year), or they limit it by a dollar amount (avg. $2000/year).  Most auto accidents require into the 5-8K amount to  cover the cost of care, and the time of treatment is anywhere between 6 months- a year (avg visits are over 100 in the course of treatment).  So your benefits will run out long before you ever get results.  You will have residual damage to your body that you will have to pay out of pocket or hire an attorney.

2. Attorney's don't write blank checks to pay off medical bills.  Most cases take 2-5 years to settle.  So you will be seen by the dr for 1 year and the dr will have to wait for 2-5 years for payment.  That's provided that the attorney will sign what's called a Letter of Protection (aka the blank check).  This insures that the dr will get paid.  Now from the dr stand point... The doctor will treat you and give you the best care possible and help you.  In return they will wait all this time to get paid.  When the settlement finally comes in years down the road the attorney asks the doctor to reduce their bill.  Generally they ask for a 50% reduction in their fees.  So if your care cost 5K.  The doctor will have to wait 2-5 years to only get $2500.  In the mean time the dr has to cover their office overhead, staff, etc w/o any pay check.

Think of it like this.  Would you like to go to work and do your best to keep your job.  Then not get paid for years for that service that you did.  Then when you finally do get your check it's only for half of what your salary is.  If no fault is eliminated, most dr's will no longer take auto accidents because they aren't getting paid. 

It takes me more time and more documentation on all auto accidents.  This is why I expect to get paid for those services in full.  If we lose no fault I'm supposed to provide those same services and the extended time for almost nothing at the end of the day.  It ends up costing me time and money to treat you because I have to spend years following up, keeping record, and paying staff to see when I'm going to get paid.

From the patient stand point.  As it stands now you don't have to pay for care other than maybe a deductible, and the therapies needed are determined by your doctor.  If it changes there will be more out of pocket expense through your group health plan. Most group health plans limit the number and types of services that can be done, excluding many of the therapies needed for this type of rehabilitation.  So you will no longer receive all the services necessary to get you well in the fastest time possible.  In addition, you will have to hire an attorney on most accident to recover damages and pay your bills.  As of now your insurance company hires attorneys to do that.  Many if not most doctors won't accept you as a patient.  Those that do are gonna be cut rate doctors that are fighting for any penny they can get.  They will most likely be new out of school and have very little knowledge on what treatment is really necessary and in your best interest.  If you have no health insurance and no Med Pay you will be responsible for the entire cost of your care.  As well, many of the better doctors will still require you to pay the full cost of care out of your pocket then let you sit and wait to recover the money your attorney receives in a settlement years down the road.  In addition because of the increased claims against your health insurance, those rates will go up.

Bottom line:  Those who benefit- insurance companies and lawyers.
                  Those who lose- everybody else

Insurance rates never go down or stay the same.  They only go up.

Here's the way it works.  Your Med Pay on your auto policy covers 2K, your PIP covers 10K, at a cost of about $60. When that PIP goes away, either Med Pay limits will have to be increased, or health insurance rates will go up because of the increasing claims.  And this doesn't even include what you might have to pay for attorneys.

If the majority of my practice were personal injury then I'd lose my practice.  I've paid close attention to having a good balance of many types of patients.  So I will not lose my business.  Actually Mike the atty's spend less time w/ the patients than the dr's.  The atty's take their 33% off the top. 

Who has more time and can afford to wait for reimbursement from the at fault party?  You, Dr, Attorney, or the insurance companies?  The insurance industry is raking in money hand over fist and shows incredible profit every year.  Every year your rates go up.  Ending no fault only benefits the insurance company because they no longer have to pay your bills yet your rates will still go up.  They will begin to see even more profit than they already are.

Ask any dr you know when the last time was that their rate of payment for services increased.

Chiro's been around for age's, the ones I feel bad for now is the people in the Real Estate Industry,

They should get use to it 'cause it's not gonna get any better for these folks untill around 2010.(IMO)

Maybe some might get a job w/ Pro Serv, there doing real well right now, serving Foreclosure papers this year more than double than last year.
There lovin it right now.

Thats what happens when you elect a republican governor like Charlie Crist, that took over 13 million from the insurance lobbyist.

There's one fault in your statement.  Charlie is a republican but he's been pushing to keep no fault as it is.  I have many friends that know him personally.  Charlie keeps pushing the legislation to come to a resolution so he can vote on it.  Not sure if you know the legislative process.  If you have any questions feel free to PM me.  I have politicked in Washington as well as Tallahasse once a year for the last few years regarding chiropractic bills that were up for legislation.  I'm aware of the process. Charlie can't vote for or against anything until the Senate and the House create bills that he can veto or approve.  He's been pushing them to come to some resolution and create a bill for quite some time and asked them to include it in the last special session.  Unless both the House and the Senate create bills no fault will sunset.

read the second post of mine and you see he is pushing it

BTW I copied your second link to print out and give to my patients so they have a better understanding and can come ask me questions about what they are voting for it it comes up for public vote.  You can enhance your local politicians on the way you want them to vote by sending them letters or e-mails.  Educate your friends on what this change means and ask them to write as well.  Your local representatives will vote based on the majority of their constituents behalf

QT, I was being facetious. You know since I'm 1/16 illegal immigrant, I don't have a need for auto insurance to drive in the state of Florida.

I took the same route as you and gave my SSN up to some new arrivals I met on the Fort Lauderdale beach last week.

LMFAO guys that's great!  Sad news is it's the truth.  How many DMV's have ins agencies next door.  Most ppl that are indigent will get the ins to show proof of it.  Then go to the DMV and get their license, and drop the insurance.  How many indigent and illegal aliens do we have here?

Please do yourself a favor.  If no fault sunsets Oct 1, make sure you have a good policy on Bodily Injury that will cover what you personally own in assets so they can't sue you.  In addition, make sure you have a good Med Pay coverage.  These will be the two coverages that will CYA in the case of an accident.  However, unfortunately you'll probably still be sued and have to deal w/ court costs and atty's to CYA.  Atleast they won't be able to hit ya for more if they win.

If it weren't benefiting the insurance company by either saving them money or making them more money why would they be in favor of it? 

every one that does not want it to sunset should waste NO time email Gov. Christ at www.myflorida.com or call House speaker's Office at 305-442-6939 like it says BE POLITE AND COURTIOUS,AND STATE YOUR CONCERN ABOUT THIS VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE. or like QT says get the coverage needed to cover your a$$.

Already been there done that and took a trip to Tallahassee this year to talk w/ many of the local politicians to protect PIP as it stands.  Everyone that cares needs to give input on this so it can hopefully be handled before the October 1 deadline for no fault to sunset aka expire.

thank QT some people dont know how important it is until they will need it or are getting sued

You got that right, when I was younger & didn't have much to lose I would get the cheapest, lowest rate policy I could find, I'm 33 now & have a small business & now I have pretty high limits(50k/100k), hopefully will never need it but you never know, you gotta CYA nowaday's.

Some people get into an accident w/ a company truck & they think since it's a company truck they can put it to you.
As far as Chiro's go, IMO, theres still gonna be a lot of personal injury attorney's that will need there services.

Sorry KB but I won't be taking ANY attorney cases.  Instead of getting paid for my services w/in 30 days of service as it is now.  I'll spend hours on end documenting and caring for the patient.  Then I'll have to go to court which takes time away from my practice and patients that need me.  The compensation to sit in court doesn't even come close to what I'd make in the office for the day.  It'd take me 2-5 years to get paid for the services provided.  In addition, the attoney's always as us to reduce our bill. 

Why should I bother to take any case where it's going to cut into my job and money in court time.  Not get paid for 2-5 yrs.  And when I finally do get paid it's only for half of my bill.  How can I be expected to cover my overhead w/o income?

I'll be letting patients pay for their care in full and they can wait for the attorney's to pay them back 2-5 yrs down the road and actually get paid back in full.

No thanks I don't need that hassle.

I hear ya QT, I like to be able to pick & choose my customers too.

I also know a Chiro in Tampa on Kennedy Blvd. that doesn't do any accident cases like that either.
Can't blame ya.

LMAO, that is if they settle OUT of court..



No one can blame you for that. I wish I could pick and choose my customers based on the hassle factor...and not the hunger factor!

So this means no more free windshields when you have a crack in it?

I better get the one in my van fixed if it is, Lloyd's auto glass will even give you a free box of steaks w/ it.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/local/sfl-flzhlpharriet0916nbsep16,0,317673.column

Someone told me that they raise the price of your insurance if you do that.


Anyone know if that's true?

Last time I told what was going on I was trashed..
Ill think Ill pass this time...

I know what you mean. I never realized the ATV community was so angry.

In fact, I just got banned from THE OTHER SITE for 24 hours. You know, the one with all the gay and racist chat,  FloridaATV.com.

How dare they ban Uncle Rico!

That is crazy...aren't you a Homosexual Racist?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/business/epaper/2007/09/21/0921PIP.html

thanks I was just gonna post it thanks