ATV Florida Forum

Here is something to ponder, We have a Off Highway Vehicles then why are we paying taxes for On Highway Vehicles. i.e. Off-Road Diesel fuel  & On Road Diesel Fuel. should there be the same for gasoline and racing fuels???

That's what the red fuel is for, but I only know of one off highway gasoline pump in all of South Florida and I'm not sure it is even still there. I don't believe racing fuel is taxed like that either, its just expensive because they can.

If anyone knows of any off highway pumps, I for one would be happy to know about where they hide em, and I promise none of it will end up in my trucks.  ::)

If gas taxes are being used to build highways for cars and trucks, why shouldn't off-highway riders get their share (we are buying the same fuel) of the taxes to build riding areas. There is something called The Symms Act, which is supposed to address this very issue. By the way, that red dye is no good for your motor.   

http://www.aldha.org/symms.htm

Short excerpt.. "I got Bill’s e-mail (testing the ALDHA e-list) and figured I’d try to pass this info on to you concerning the Symms Act, federal funding that helps hiking trails, but also funds the destruction of wild places. Many hiking clubs are promoting the Act, not realizing they are also promoting motorized vehicle intrusion in our nation’s last wild places. 70 percent of the money goes to (motorized) ORV, ATV and snowmobile trails, while the hiking trails get 30 percent. "

If hikers hate it, it can't be all bad.  8)

Honestly, I never heard of it before now, but I know the government would have no problems with us running red gas in our quads, they are 'basically' what it is intended for IMHO.

I don't know about the dye, but I doubt my 'off-road' F-250 would mind...I certainly wouldn't.

I was talking about the the red dye in diesel fuel. It is very hard on the top end of a motor. I forgot about the other fuel with the dye. The Symms Act seems to be a joke anyways.

The red dye does not hurt anything cause any excessive smoke etc.... Allot BS. Do you honestly think farmers would burn this fuel in 1/2 million dollar pieces of equipment if it would in the slightest way hurt them? Not to mention the small skid steer starting at 20-30k on up....I doubt it.

There are 2 places in PBC one in Boynton & one in West Palm. Ive used it in all my diesel nursery motors for years. Never an issue. So why would it hurt a pick up  JMHO ;) Not that your supposed to :( and it is about 30-40 cent cheaper per gallon.

I've always wondered why we are buying gas that's taxed for our off road vehicles and quads.  I'd like to know where I can save money filling both my OHV truck and my quad.  Neither ever see the pavement.  Not sure why I should pay road taxes on something that's not even allowed to use the road.

It boils down to, they do not want red fuel on the road period, and if the few off roaders who know about it have to suffer, who better in their eyes. This sounds like an issue the ATV association needs to address with the government.  ;)

They take it quite seriously when it is found in an over the road truck.

I would think the more north you go, the easier it would be to find, it can be had in Homestead pretty easy.
Broward is a special case as our last farm land was built out a few years ago...

Funny, I just saw a sign today for it in Deerfield near the entrance to the Sawgrass Expressway.  There is a station on the corner of 10th and Powerline across from Quiet Waters.

Gas is cheap! I steal JackL gas from his truck once a week.  ;) Pm me and I'll send you his address.

Bill, I have thought about this before but did not find any answers. A lot of states have forms that allow you to get a refund for fuel used for offroad purposes and in your boats/airplanes. Florida offers it for airplanes and certain other situations, here is the form. It says nothing about OHV's. I am going to fill it out sometime and try.

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2006/dr26.pdf

During my rants about trail maintenance funds I read somewhere months back that some of the funding for the T. Mark Schmidt fund comes from fuel tax / I searched the T. Mark Schmidt act but all I could find was that most of the funding comes from registrations of ORV's.

It comes from both. All the registration money from your OHV goes to the Mark T. Schmidt fund, and I believe 10 - 20 percent from fuel tax goes to the fund. An interesting point is if a certain amount of money from the fund doesn't get used, the government is looking to get it back.

..and here I thought I got 3mpg because I needed an air cleaner.  :o

:ThumbsUp.gif  I'll be right by there today.

nice find!!

why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?

Id@

the sunoco in ocala on the corner of   sr 40  and 27 th ave sell off road fuel

If you have a new truck, Warranty will not cover it if they find red dye in the system. I have been asked if it would hurt it and my diesel mechanic said that it can harm these new injection systems. I would hate to know that I had a $50,000 truck and now I need to put new injectors in it because I was trying to save 30 cents a gallon. You also got to think that tractors do a different job then a truck that on the road every day. Especially with these new emissions on these trucks, you would be asking for troubles.

I was just talking to the guys at my shop about this. One of our mechanics is from Michigan. He was a founding member of the Michigan Snowmobile Association. His group found a congressman who would listen & they lobbyed him hard on this issue of "on road fuel" vs "off road fuel". After a year of this, the state of Michigan passed a bill that gave the Association, .01 cent on every gallon of fuel sold in the state. They had tons of money to fund trail placement & group rallies and such. This was such a coincidence that this came up because he is going back to Michigan tomorrow. I hope this information can help the FLATV Association. If the Association could get something like this, think of the funds it would make. In a couple years the association could buy a few thousand acres in FL. and we could all have our own place to ride like they want. If anyone on the board of the association is interested I can talk to him to see if he could lend some advice, just LMK. Like I said before he was a founding board member of thier assoc. & they made it happen.

First of all, any station that sells off-road diesel is not going to allow you to pump it into your truck.  Yes, you could pump it into your own tank and transfer it over but if you ever get caught, woooo doggie; you're in a heap of trouble.  Both the IRS and the Florida Department of Revenue will be all over you.  We used to run some of our trucks interstate and I had to do the IFTA reports.  Florida Highway Fuel Tax rate on diesel at that time was $.27 per gallon (the Federal government gives a credit on their $.244 per gallon tax as well).  You would have to buy a lot of fuel to offset the penalties should you get caught ($10.00 per gallon of fuel assumed to have been used).  Plus, you don't even get full credit.  If you check the price at the pump, the discount is usually less than the full tax rate.  The other thing is that dye will last quite a while in the tank.  They can detect it at extremely low concentrations.  Realistically, unless you are a commercial vehicle, DOT cops aren't going to pull you over and test your fuel (they, FDR agents and an IRS agent have all stopped at our jobsites or pulled our trucks over in the past checking fuel).  Where you are going to get into trouble is bragging about it and somebody tells somebody who tells.....  Bottom line, it's not worth the hassle.

 One other thing I just found out.  To qualify as an off-road diesel application, the unit must be rated at least 70 hp.

DIESEL FUEL DYEING
 A confusing situation for both refiners and purchasers of diesel fuel has arisen because both the IRS and the EPA require the addition of red dye to certain classes of diesel fuel. However, each agency requires that the dye be added to a different class of fuel, at a different concentration, and for a different reason.
 The EPA wants to identify diesel fuel with a high sulfur content in order to ensure that it is not used in on-road vehicles.
 The IRS wants to ensure that tax-exempt low sulfur and high sulfur diesel fuel are not used for taxable purposes.


The EPA Requirements   Originally, the EPA's low sulfur diesel regulations required the addition of blue dye to noncomplying high sulfur (>0.05% mass) fuels. But after the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) expressed concerns that blue-dyed diesel fuel might be confused with the most common aviation gasoline, which already was being dyed blue, the EPA changed the dye from blue to red.

The EPA regulations require "visible evidence of the presence of red dye" to identify high sulfur fuels intended for off-road use. In practice, this requires refiners to add a level of red dye that is equivalent to no more than 0.75 pounds/1000 bbl (ptb) of a solid Solvent Red 26 dye standard. Solvent Red 26 was chosen as the standard because it is a unique chemical available in pure form. Diesel fuels are actually dyed with liquid concentrates of Solvent Red 164 because this dye is more fuel soluble and less costly than the standard. Solvent Red 164 is a mixture of isomers that are very similar to Solvent Red 26, except the former incorporates hydrocarbon (alkyl) chains to increase its solubility in petroleum products.

Any red dye observed in the fuel of a vehicle in on-road use triggers a measurement of the fuel's sulfur content. Penalties are assessed based on the actual sulfur content of the fuel, rather than simply on the presence of dye.

The IRS Requirements   The IRS regulations require that tax-exempt diesel fuels, both high sulfur and low sulfur, have a minimum level of a Solvent Red 164 dye that is spectrally equivalent to 3.9 ptb of Solvent Red 26 dye standard. This level of dye is more than five times the amount required by the EPA regulations. The IRS contends that the high dye level is necessary to allow detection of tax evasion even after five-fold dilution of dyed fuel with undyed fuel.
 

FEDERAL DIESEL FUEL EXCISE TAX
The federal government imposes an excise tax on diesel fuel, currently $0.244 per gallon. However, certain fuel uses are tax-exempt or subject to a reduced rate. These uses include: heating; farming; use by state or local governments or nonprofit educational organizations; and boats engaged in fishing or transportation.
Because Congress believed that there was considerable evasion of this tax, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 changed some of the diesel tax procedures. Briefly, under the new procedures, the tax is levied on diesel fuel removed from a terminal's truck loading rack unless the fuel is dyed.
Dyed diesel fuel may be used only for nontaxable purposes. Anyone who knowingly sells or uses dyed diesel fuel for taxable purposes or who willfully alters the concentration of dye in diesel fuel is subject to a minimum $10 per gallon penalty. The 1993 Act gives the IRS authority to enforce the diesel fuel tax, including the authority to inspect terminals, dyes, dyeing equipment, and fuel storage facilities; and to stop, detain, and inspect vehicles. 

 

I spoke with my friend. They have a website, MichiganSnowmobileAssociation.com. If our board is interested in finding out how they did this, you can reach their board thru email on this site. Also, one of the founders now lives in Zephyrhills, named Bill Baker. He would have a lot of info on this as he helped in making it happen. If anyone is interested  in this info just PM me. This is definitely something to spark interest during the rally as well. If Michigan did it, wouldnt it set some sort of precedent that we could use for our state. There will be a lot of gas burnt on rally weekend off road that we all payed highway tax for. Think about it. Every boat, airboat, atv, utv, dirtbike, swampbuggy, half track, full track & non street legal mud truck is paying for the highways we are not allowed to use.

I know most of the places around here that sell the off road diesel won't let you pump it unless you have a tank..thats not the problem. If DOT catches you, you get a $10,000 fine and you have to clean the tank on the side of the road. Not to mention the hour or 2 it takes them to test it on the side of the road. We have a friend who used to run it b/c he hauled cattle all over the US and DOT burned him good on it.

I told you they don't take it lightly. Any time the DOT pulls over a dumptruck in Miami you can rest assured the stick will be going in the fuel tank.

IMHO, diesel prices are staying pretty consistent right now, so why take the chance. 

Stewards has mentioned this before - here is that link 

http://www.atvflorida.com/forum/index.php/topic,21744.msg272637.html#msg272637

Don't want to burn off road fuel in newer diesels cause of the low sulphur content. Gas stations were posting signs on pumps about  a new lower sulphur content fuel a whille back. Older diesels actually run better on higher sulphur fuel the way i was always told. The DOT can pull anyone over (commercial or not, though unlikely if not). If they were to check your fuel you sure aint gonna save any money! My partner hauled cattle to sale one day in his old truck cause his other one was broke down and the one time he used that truck to go to the sale, you guessed it, we were burning off road fuel and guess who was at the loading chutes checking fuel?! DOT with a $1500 fine! You can buy off road (no road tax) gasoline at alot of places but I ain't tellin where 8)

The new low sulfur 15ppm diesel is required in ANY diesel model year 2007 or newer. The other diesel you can still buy in certain places is 500ppm and can only use in 2006 or older diesels.