ATV Florida Forum

Went to Badluck this weekend with a couple of buddies and had a short trip. We went out Friday afternoon and had no problems. Good ride, the prarie is really wet.

Saturday we got up, and did an afternoon ride. Had a great time, made it all the way to Boy Scout Camp, even with some people flooding their quads, eehmm Mike. Well on the way back we were stopped by 2 Wildlife Officers right before we got to the T-Canal Campground.

The short story is, we were told that from this point forward there are no ATVs/OHV allowed in the area, it is a Wildlife Management Area. I asked about the ATV/OHV Park they were supposed to set up before the closed Badluck/Squares to riding, and the Officer said that if he were me he would be complaining to someone about that. This was not really a warning, we were told to pack up the bikes and not bring them back.

Well we drove back to camp, figured we would eat and then get a last ride in. Well the Wildlife Officers came into the camp now, to make sure we were loading our quads up. I asked one of the Officers if we could stay the night, he said yes, but he wanted the quads loaded up in our trucks if we stayed. Well, we packed up and left. I'm sad to say that riding at Badluck/Squares is done.

For some reason, the FWC has a different story every other week.  I was out there two weeks ago, and they said we could ride as long as we had helmets!

One department does'nt know what the others is doing.
Department of forestry saids "yes riding"

Fwc                                      " No riding"

That's funny, I was there on Saturday the entire day with my loud-a** blaster and I didn't even see and rangers.  I hope they don't close it down, that would mean driving all the way to Croom everytime we wanted a real place to ride.  :P

From what the FWC Officer said, they agree, one dosent know what the other is doing. He also added that the Forestry dosent have the authority, they do. They said it is a Wildlife Area, and under their control. We mentioned the rules that were passed out and what others were told by Forestry. From what we were told, on Friday they were warning it was comming, and on Saturday they acted on it.

BTW, hey Grizz were you at the T Canal Saturday Night. I thought I saw you drive by in your Jeep that I saw in pictures here. If it was you I drove right by in a Big Red Polaris 500.

Toomey - we were told at about 7:00 or so. The sun was just going down. So you may have left by the time they were telling people.


~ This may be the reason for the sudden closure.

Governor Bush Accelerates Restoration of America's Everglades
--Eight key environmental projects to be completed 10 years ahead of schedule--

AMERICA'S EVERGLADES - Joined by a host of environmental advocates, Governor Jeb Bush today unveiled an ambitious plan to accelerate the restoration of America's Everglades. As part of the $8 billion state-federal partnership to restore the River of Grass, Florida is stepping up the pace to complete critical environmental projects more than a decade ahead of schedule.

"Florida is strengthening its commitment to the Everglades by further accelerating the largest environmental restoration effort in this nation's history," said Governor Jeb Bush. "Completing critical restoration projects more than 10 years ahead of schedule will provide immediate environmental, social and economic benefits."

The culmination of months of discussion with their federal partners, Florida is speeding up funding, design and construction to complete eight Everglades restoration projects over the next seven years. At substantial savings to taxpayers, the projects include construction of more than 8,000 acres of treatment marsh, which use plants to clean pollution from water flowing into the Everglades. In addition, above ground reservoirs will offer 418,000 acre-feet of water storage -- the same capacity as six million residential swimming pools.

"Florida's determination to accomplish results at less cost demonstrates our commitment to this massive environmental endeavor," said Department of Environmental Protection Secretary Colleen M. Castille. "Our strategic investment will revive wildlife habitat, improve flood control and deliver 50 percent of the surface water storage needed to replenish the entire 2.4 million-acre marsh."

Accelerated projects include:

Biscayne Bay Coastal Wetlands will restore the quantity, quality, timing and distribution of freshwater to Biscayne Bay, expand coastal wetlands, revive marine habitat and improve the health of Biscayne National Park.
C-111 Spreader Canal will provide a more natural sheet-flow to Florida Bay eliminating harmful freshwater discharges and revitalizing wetlands and wildlife habitat in the Southern Glades and Model Lands.
C-43 West Storage Reservoir will capture and store stormwater runoff and freshwater releases from Lake Okeechobee to protect coastal estuaries. The 160,000 acre-feet reservoir will also provide a reliable supply of water supply for the Caloosahatchee Estuary along with nearby farms and residential areas.
C-44 Reservoir/Stormwater Treatment Area will capture and treat excess stormwater runoff before it enters the St. Lucie Estuary and Indian River Lagoon. The project includes construction of 4,000 acres of treatment marsh along with a 4,000 acre, 10 foot deep above-ground reservoir.
Everglades Agricultural Area Reservoir Phase 1/Bolles and Cross Canals will protect coastal estuaries and reduce the flow of nutrients into the Everglades by capturing and storing freshwater releases from Lake Okeechobee, along with agricultural stormwater runoff, in a 190,000 acre-feet above ground reservoir.
Everglades Agricultural Area Stormwater Treatment Area Expansion will enhance the performance of 40,000 acres of wetlands already built by the state and construct an additional 4,500 acres of treatment marsh.
Southern Golden Gate Estates will restore a natural flow of water to Ten Thousand Islands National Wildlife Refuge, restore wildlife habitat, improve the quality and quantity of water delivered to coastal estuaries and maintain flood protection.
Five Water Preserve Areas will provide a buffer between natural and developed areas and divert urban runoff into constructed and natural storage areas.
"Sound environmental and financial management is putting Everglades restoration ahead of schedule at considerable savings," said Henry Dean, Executive Director for the South Florida Water Management District. "We are delivering environmental results faster and making water available for nature quicker than originally planned."

With more than 254,000 acres of the land needed to complete Everglades restoration already in public ownership, remaining parcels will be acquired at today's prices avoiding future expenses from rising property values. While creating construction and engineering jobs in South Florida, labor and materials will also be purchased at today's prices.

"The Administration enthusiastically endorses and welcomes the Governor's new 'Acceler8' initiative," said James L. Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality. "It will help us in our joint efforts to restore the Everglades faster and more efficiently and effectively. Our federal agencies will not only be able to help the State achieve dramatic results on a faster pace for these eight projects, but Acceler8 will free up resources to allow the Administration to focus on completing other critical CERP projects and the Modified Water Deliveries Project."

Restoring America's Everglades is reviving habitat for more than 60 threatened and endangered species, establishing a reliable supply of water for more than 8 million Floridians and providing flood control consistent with the restoration -- a benefit underscored by the impact of three hurricanes on South Florida's shores.

Under the leadership of Governor Bush, Florida forged a 50-50 state-federal partnership to implement the $8 billion Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan and has committed more than $2.5 billion through the end of the decade to clean up and restore America's Everglades.

For more information, visit www.evergladesnow.com.

Yes that was me just cutting through the campground.

Grizz

Just wondering where is badluck/squares.  Is it part of onf?  Onf is still open to orvs right?  

No its in South florida... my be quite a drive for you just to ride :-[ :-[

I Camped out and rode friday , sat, and sunday rode all three days didn't get stopped at all guess I was just lucky! We all need to have a big group/ rally ride real soon ... See if they can stop every one just a thought :(

I personally think if we all wrote letters to the FWC and Department of Forestry and they were bombarded with  a couple hundred letters I think that would get their attention.

Just My 2 cents

Grizz

Yeah I don't think either agency has a clue as to whats going on.  The FWC does not have complete authroity there.  It even says it on there website that the Picayune Strand is a cooperative managed area working with DOF and South Florida Water Management.  The rules that DOF has been passing out the last couple of weeks was even posted on the board at the camp site.  I'm wondering if something pissed those FWC rangers off that evening.  If they were really going to inforce the ATV Ban they would have had several agencies involved the whole weekend warning everyone that came in there like they did in 2002.  They also would have made an annoucement in the paper or the news.  I guess we will find out in the coming weeks if others get kicked out.

If they didnt want anyone out there, they would be enforcing like theres no tomorrow, especially since it is a state wildlife project. But until they post something in the paper saying that no atvs are allowed in that area, I will continue to go and argue with any misconception of the actual laws. If they dont want anyone riding out there, they should have a FWC offcer sitting in a truck right over the bridge at the entrance into the squares. But the fact that they dont indicates that they are not fully enforcing "their own" rules yet. I think they should atleast let us ride the squares and part of the prarie.

Heck, let us ride all of the the squares and all of the prarie.
All they gotta do is stop destroying more of the everglades.  They're gonna take away our riding spot, but somewhere else, they are just going to keep on building houses right into the glades.  If they close down the squares, there's gonna be a whole lot of people roaming around illegal riding areas instead.

Simply put you met up with some a-holes on sh@$ patrol who hate being out there.
Ya see, no ATVs= We can go back to sleep or back to Waffle House.
Jeb Bush needed to be voted out years ago but people just won't get off there sorry asses.

Him and his retard brother.

Riding at a local Miami spot this weekend when several trucks  pulling RV's and quads pulled in and set up camp. I was amazed that someone would want to camp out there after talking to one in there group they said they planned a weekend of camping and riding at the squares but got sent home and told they where not even allowed to camp out,  ???. There is something going on at the Squares for sure... :-/

We saw a few Rvs and Quads leaving Saturday morning.

Well I have emailed both the Forestry Division and Department of Enviromental Protection (Wildlife) trying to get clarification. Ill let you know what they say.

If you want to email them here is the info:

Forestry:

Florida Division of Forestry
Picayune Strand State Forest
2121 52nd Avenue S
Naples, FL 34117
(239) 348-7557, Fax: (239) 348-7559 or durrwas@doacs.state.fl.us

DEP:

South District: Lisa Douglass 239/332-6975 X175
Counties: Charlotte, Collier, Glades, Hendry, Highlands, Lee & Monroe
Lisa.Douglass@dep.state.fl.us

The last time FWC started warning people about riding in the squares and Badluck, it was numerous calls, E-mails, letters etc. to the Governers office that took the heat off.  This is where the policies are made and can be modified, the local offices just say they are doing what they are told.
Lets make Gov. Bush understand our situation including the
differences between FWC and Forestrys positions and promises
for a riding area, and see if pressure from the top down will either let us have our access back or make it very clear the current administration doesn't care if they stand by their promises.

I think there bluffing trying to send you packing... I got a friend who is a wildlife officer .. He said you can't be told to leave just yet.. Unless your breaking the rules! You were heading back to the T right? were you on the road? He said until the deal goes though with foresty they can't make you leave. He also said ,  its just a matter of time , and they  will be able to go as far as impounding your bikes. the 2500 acres we are suppossed to get is part of there deal so until we get that it is still open just what I was told

it seems that all the $$$$$ that  FL has made from the ATV title fund, has help speed up the closing of the rideing areas. i saw right thur this B.S  2 yrs ago.  the state of P.A did the same thing took $$$ to open ATV parks. had everone title there ATVS open 3 areas and in a year closed 2 of them to make them into a mountian bike area only.  stop wasting your $$$ by titleing your atvs, were just going to have to ride on pay area like ICROSS  were you dont need all the red tape B.S !  STOP giving JEB BUSH your$$$  to give to FWC to throw you out of riding areas!!!!!

Hi all where is Badluck at im near Tampa Fl

500runner is absolutly right, I've been saving the same thing about what a scam this atv titling thing was.

Well I guess I'll find out if they are closing it cause I'm goin out there on Thursday. Anyone want to join us? We'll have two Polaris Sportsmen..a blue one and a green one.

PM me and we'll set up a spot to meet at.  I have never been out there.

As far as where its at, I highly recommend the Florida Atlas by Delorme. It's got topos of florida showing the WMA's.

The directions I got were exit Alligator Alley north on 29, turn left at gas station, turn left onto Everglades, then go south of 595. That's about all I know.

take 75 to rt 29 n about 10 miles i think it rt 858 there a citgo on the right you make a left to everyglades blvd then a left for 20  miles at the last stop sign and your there

Coming from Tampa take I-75 to exit106 Pine Ridge Rd., Naples.   Left off the ramp on Pine Ridge Rd. approx. 4 miles where it intersects CR 951(Collier Blvd).   Left on 951(North)
1 mile then right on Golden Gate Blvd.  10 miles on Golden Gate Blvd. to Everglades Blvd. (at 5 mi there is a convienence
store/ gas station/Subway on the left, where all the locals stop on their way to the Prairie ). Right on Everglades Blvd.
go South approx 10 miles.  You will cross I-75 at about 5 miles
which is where you enter the Picayune State Park, (The South Blocks/ Squares) then continue until the road ends at a T stop (Lynch Blvd) , right on Lynch ,you will pass a sand (when its not under water) parking lot just before a canal bridge.  Just past the bridge the tram road entrance on left

Have you gotten any Emails back yet Bystander?  I sent one to FWC's website and have not heard back from them.  I also complained about the fact that they have a bunch of WMA's in South Floruda but don't really allow any ATV's/ORV's on them.  Technically if they wanted to give us the boot at Holeylands they could because it says only during hunting season in the rules.  They also own that entire area by the FPL substation by Holiday Park where everyone used to ride in the 80's.  That area will never be used for anything so I don't see the harm in letting us ride there.  That area is in the Everglades/Franics S Taylor WMA and has the same rules as Holeyland.  So since we can ride at Holeylands why not there?
If they don't respond in a week I'm going to call there West Palm Office which manages the South Florida WMA's.

Go for it Gamer.  I'm going to the squares this week. If I get run off, then I'm starting a letter writing / phone /email campaign.  

Why did they close down the Holiday Park area?

They closed the MUDHOLE, which was east of US27 because somebody wiped out pretty bad and sued FPL and Florida Water Management.

I am assuming you are either a young person with little political knowledge or just ignorant.

The truth is that George Bush is friend to outdoorsmen and offroaders. He has repealed many of the laws that outlawed ATVS in parks put in place by the Enviro former president Clinton. Read on:


http://4wheeldrive.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=4wheeldrive&zu=http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/102348_roads01.shtml

http://www.cal4wheel.com/alerts/campaign.htm

300exstangboy, look boy, I'm 36 years old and far more educated than you will ever be.

No, I havent. I sent another with the same heading and I added '2nd Attempt'. If I don't get a response I will be writing my Congressmen and the Gov asking why we can't get any response from our State Officials, I suggest you do the same if you get no response. I'm giving them till Wednesday.

I emailed the FWC before with no reply. I don't know if they use their email service. Or if they just trash the emails from the public.

 I'AM NOT GONNA GIVE UP ON THE BLOCKS YET, WE WERE TOLD TO LEAVE LAST WEEKEND ON FRIDAY NIGHT, WE POLITELY SAID WE STILL HAD RIDERS OUT AND COULDN'T LEAVE THEM.ONE OF OUR GUYS WAS TOLD AGAIN ON SATERDAY NIGHT AROUND 8:30 AT THE T BLOCK CAMPSITES,ONCE AGAIN WE HAD RIDERS OUT AND WE COULDN'T LEAVE, AND WE COULDN'T PACK OUR QUADS BECAUSE WE SLEEP IN OUR TRAILERS. WE DIDN'T SEE THEM AGAIN. WE DID LEAVE ON SUNDAY ,BUT THERE WERE 15-20 NEW RIDERS COMMING IN.IA'M NOT GIVING UP YET. I'LL BE THERE ON THE WEEKENDS, PARKED AT THE TURIST PRAIRE OR AT THE T BLOCK. RED DODGE RAM 1500. X-CALIBER RIDING TEAM..HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE..

fwc could care less about ATVs, once the state took away the $10.00 yr sticker fee to ride on MGT AREAS. FWC lost a $$$.  STOP THE TITLE SCAM!!!!!   if you buy used ATVS dont spend your  $$$$ on this scam.... >:(

We camped twice this month at the Squares with no problems all weekend.  The squares(Picayune) is considered a State Forest and you are allowed to ride atvs in it.  The only area and unfortunately the funnest that may be closed is the prairie due to being a wetland.  I'm going to start contacting people in the different agences to try and get our facts straight before we start fighting it.  Keep posting info if you get replies from the agencies.  

Not to make this site about politics.  You guys bashing Bush need to do some homework.  The Bush brothers are way more friendly to outdoorsman like us, just check their records.  If you read the papers, it is something they are constantly criticized for by environmentalists.  If you think we have it bad, head out west, where Clinton closed millions of acres to anything with wheels on it, even mountain bikes.  

I'm new to the site but whoever put this together thanks, It's great!!!

I finally got a reply back from FWC's website.  It doesnt sound like this person knows much about Picayune and whats going on there.  I should have sent it to the South Region FWC site in charge of Picayune but atleast I got a reply.  I'd also like to know exactly where you can ride in all the WMA's he has mentioned there.  The Everglades and Fracis S Taylor is huge and I have no clue where your allowed to ride.  I'll have to take a look at that handbook that hes talking about.
Here's the reply.


Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us regarding the use of ATV's on public lands. The Division of Forestry has been the lead agency in the effort to find public ATV riding areas.  The Forest Service has identified several sites around the state and they are still working on the project.  They expect to have something like the motorcycle area in Croom WMA on several areas around the state. The FWC is lead agency on only a few of our WMA's. We do allow ATV use on some areas under our control like Bull Creek and Three Lakes. ATV's are allowed in the south region during hunting season on Big Cypress, Holey Land, Rotenberger, Everglades, Dinner Island Ranch and Sprit of the Wild.

Regulations adopted for Picayune Strand prohibit ATV's or any unlicensed vehicle. Why DOF is not enforcing existing regulations is a question for them.  Area regulations specifically prohibit ATV's. Which wma's allow ATV's is in the hunting handbook and in the online version of the hunting handbook.  The handbook has a section about wildlife management areas and there is a list of each area and types of recreational activities allowed.  The last column is for ATV use. Most of our wildlife management areas were purchased as environmentally sensitive lands, opening them to unrestricted use by atv's is not an option, but we are looking at finding  ways to accommodate atv use on public lands.



Eddie White
Quota Hunt
(850) 488-8573

Well right after I sent my 2nd notice, i recieved a reply. She said she was out of the Office the last couple of days, and Ill give her the benfit of the doubt. Although I do believe that you will not recieve an answer unless you stay on top of it. She said that she is researching my questions and will get back to me. So, again, Im waiting...

we road at badluck/squares last sat. and sunday had no problems at all their was about 20 in our group 11 4x4s also road the state park and saw panther tracks (still wet)

Just spoke with Lisa Douglas at the Division of Forestry.  She was a super nice lady.  They are not certain what is going on with the Squares and said there is 3 agencies claiming authority of the area but that they have not been restricting ATVS.  She promised to try and get back to us today with some better answers.  

I also just realized that the times I stopped to speak with a FWC officer I was in a truck or jeep with a license plate. Everytime I've been on my 4wheeler they just wave, so I may stand corrected on the State Forest laws and OHVs.  In the past we used to get a OHV permit for State Forests but I believe that with the exception of Croom that has been removed.

where you the group with a lot of hondas and loud pipes? (no offense)I was out there on sat. night till about 2:30am.

rode the squares today with no problems. met some forestry dudes, they just waved.

saw a bunch of buggies but no atvs.

going back thursday if anyone wants to meet up.

Headed out sat. late afternoon again. Ride till the sun comes up maybe. Ill be singing till the fat lady starts ;D 2tone Chevy x cab 4x4. Honda Rancher w/ red cooler full of BL.

Lisa Douglas emailed me today. This is what she said:

You will need to contact the Division of Foresty
Contact us at:
Florida Division of Forestry
Picayune Strand State Forest
2121 52nd Avenue S
Naples, FL 34117
(239) 348-7557, Fax: (239) 348-7559 or Email Us

Here is some information from their website that
http://www.fl-dof.com/state_forests/Forest_Fees.html

You may also contact their district office at
Caloosahatchee District:
Lee, Collier, and Hendry Counties
Caloosahatchee District Office
Florida Division of Forestry
10941 Palm Beach Blvd.
Ft. Myers, FL 33905
Telephone: 239/690-3500 Suncom: 715-3500 Fax: 239/690-3504

District Manager: Hank Graham, email: grahamh@doacs.state.fl.us

Administrative Assistant: Bertie Berczik, email: berczib@doacs.state.fl.us



Looks like its back to the emails...

from  the DOF link, posted above looks like a FEE menu . the DOF charges    soon they charge a FEE for restroom T.P fee .    what next ???

I was just looking at that site before I saw this message, it is a fee list, correct, but there is a section that says:

"Off Highway Vehicle Fees:
Motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles (ATV's) are prohibited except at the Croom Motorcycle Area at Withlacoochee State Forest. "

Also on that page, under "Other Information", "In Keeping":

"Motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles (ATVs) are prohibited, except as noted under 'Off Highway Vehicle Fees'."

I agree with everyone that this is really confusing, some say one thing, others say something else. I hate to make a trip there and not be able to ride... But then again a lot of you have gone and done the "wave" thing, hehe...

Hey 1fast250r  are you that guy I heard bout flipping his Red rancher over in the hole in the wall mud hole lol  aka  "gator hole"!!!!!  Maybe that cooler should be full of pepsi insteed of BL  lol   j/k [smiley=Dead.gif]

That was a test. well 2 tests. 1. to see if the Rancher runs upside down. ;D..  2.  see if the cooler can hold 2 bags of ice,  3 full B/L's and 9 empty's. hehe and it past both tests.

This is kinda old but stil interesting: http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/articles2/commissioners_could_move_to_give.htm

I thought I read somewhere on this website that some property rights group was organizing a protest ralley and they were coming from all over the country to meet here in naples. I failry sure it was supposed to happen in October or November....   ???

Lets not forget about this article either.  We need to remind FWC and DOF.

http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/news/article/0,2071,NPDN_14940_2672018,00.html

Herd this morning from the inside that FWC will be inforcing no ORV starting today.... >:(    I live 10min from here. I will let everyone know....

Collier County is gettin slim on riding spots. Fellow ATVers are starting to feel like wild animals froced out of there territory

I'm gunna through my bike in the back of my truck and ride out there tonight. I gotta see if the chase me off ....we got a group ride on sat. will report back tonight

Got a response from Hank Graham, District Manger, DOF:

There seems to be some disagreement between DOF and FWC with regard to enforcement of ATV use.  Our policy has not changed.  We are still allowing ATV’s to be used in the Forest.  However, FWC officers are enforcing their WMA rules which do not allow ATV’s.  I have spoken with their Regional Director in West Palm and asked him to address this issue.  He assures me he is working on it and hopefully we will get this resolved soon.  I apologize for any problems.  Thank you for your correspondence.



Hank Graham


We need to press them for an answer. This proves that DOF and FWC are screwed up and are not together on this, thats comming from the District Manager.

Great work Inno.
Thanks

Grizz

hmmmm... thats why I keep the "Standard" buds in my cooler....the added calories not only help in the spare tire department, but keeps the rubber down, where it belongs. Whenever the Bud/Miller Lite ratio goes too far to the left of bud, we do experience some "handling problems".  ;D

Finally, a Government official admitting that one department has no idea what the other is doing. Now, who has the authority in bad luck/squares FWC or DOF or both?

i bet you will hear soon that FWC takes complete controll and kicks the DOF out of there.  theres goes more of our great amout of $$$ from the title scam to pay  the FWC, to purchase AIRBOATS,&ATVs to use to patrol out there!!!!!! and at this time it looks bad for the OCALA N. F there going to take most of the forest away from atvers and will be allowed on 13mi loop trail system!!    we need ban together and buy are our rideing areas  because the TREE HUGGERS will not go away.  croom will be the next TREE HUGGER attack !! the DOF cant fight the big FWC ....  again please stop the title scam  dont send in your $$$$$$$$$$$$$

I can't believe some of you guys are still in the denile stage.  It's coming and it's right around the corner.  Why would badluck be any different then the other half dozen places they've locked down this year?

Face it riding in Florida is over with the exception of Croom, limited ONF area, and the couple of private locations such as SE etc.

The writing has been on the wall all along.

Attached is an E-Mail I sent tonight to Gov. Bush (jeb.bush@myflorida.com) and the Naples Daily News.  I urge all of you to also keep the letters, phone calls and e-mails flowing to all agencies. Let them know we are a cohesive group and are determined to keep State land open to us.

Gov.Bush,
  I feel I can speak for many of the recreational atv/swamp buggy outdoorsmen and women in our fine state.  I feel this is especially poignent on this the weekend of the Swamp Buggy Parade and races, here in Naples.(Billed as a Florida tradition)  
  Most of us in the above categories consider ourselves a strong portion of the Conservative base and cherish our rights afforded us constitutionally.  We enjoy the outdoors and all strive to raise our children with the same amazement for nature we hold so dearly.  
  The reason I feel Swamp Buggy weekend holds so much importance at this time is myself as many others, no longer own woods buggies.  Why?
  State, County and Federal agencies have systematically and aggressively closed basically all the lands once enjoyed by the recreational buggyowners and atv'ers.  
Recently FWC(Fish and Wildlife Commission) began warning ORV (off road vehicles)that they were not welcome in the Picayune State Park, and would be subject to fines and impoundments of their vehicles. They were further warned the prohibited area included the Bad Luck Prairie lands.  During the same time-frame DOF (Forestry) were handing out leaflets to those partaking of the Picayune State Park, that we were welcome there with the understanding that Helmet and Camping regulations would be enforced.  DOF advises they share jurisdiction with FWC but are the primary jurisdictional agency per the State Park charter, FWC officers claim their jurisdiction is primary over DOF always, and will continue to enforce as they see fit.  State agencies not knowing "Who's on First", makes our state government seem disorganized and non-cohesive.  I request your intervention to keep our heritage and lands open for recreational ORV use.
Sincerely, Jeff LeBlanc, Naples,FL

But the DOF website says ATVs are prohibited:

http://www.fl-dof.com/state_forests/Forest_Fees.html

Has anyone found documentation that can be printed and carried with you if and when stopped?. Or perhaps an e-mail from a good source with a number to be called as backup?

Thanks...

Some VERY interesting reading...:

T. MARK SCHMIDT OFF-HIGHWAY VEHICLE RECREATION GRANT PROGRAM
1. SPECIAL TERMS, CONDITIONS AND SPECIFICATIONS
A. INTRODUCTION
The growth in the use of off-highway vehicles [all terrain vehicles (ATV) and off-highway
motorcycles (OHM)] has steadily increased in Florida over the past several years. According to
Florida’s 2002 Statewide Comprehensive Outdoor Recreation Plan, four-wheel ATVs have had a
dramatic increase in popularity and are gaining widespread use in all parts of the state among
hunters, competitors, and those who merely enjoy riding them. An estimated 110,000 ATVs alone
are in use in Florida according to figures developed by motorized recreation groups. However,
with this growth, there are a very limited number of legal areas to ride on public lands. In order
to accommodate the increasing number of OHV users in Florida and adequately protect
sensitive Florida ecosystems, more areas need to be identified, planned, and developed.
B. PURPOSE
The purpose of T. Mark Schmidt Off-Highway Vehicle Grant Program (hereinafter referred to as
the OHV Grant Program) is to provide financial assistance to governmental agencies or eligible
applicants (see Section F - Eligibility Requirements) in order to provide or improve off-highway
vehicle recreational areas or trails for public use on public lands. Through the Off-Highway
Vehicle Titling Program, the State of Florida has been allocated $726,000 for state Fiscal Year
2004-05. The primary purpose of the OHV Grant Program is to provide and/or improve offhighway
riding opportunities on public lands by establishing and/or maintaining existing or new
riding areas; provide environmental protection and restoration to affected natural areas in the
system; provide enforcement of applicable regulations related to the system and off-highway
vehicle activities; provide safety, training, and rider education in the operation of off-highway
vehicles; and if funds are available, acquire lands to be included in the system and manage,
maintain, and rehabilitate such lands. Total funding available for grants will be recommended
by the Off-Highway Vehicle Recreation Committee on an annual basis and approved by the
Commissioner of the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and appropriated by
the Florida Legislature.
The OHV Grant Program is intended to help state, federal, and local governments, state and
federally recognized tribal units with lands in Florida, volunteer groups, and nonprofit
organizations to plan, develop, and rehabilitate facilities and lands associated with off-highway
use and not meant to be a continual funding source for staffing such areas.

-------------------------------------------

Source: http://www.fl-dof.com/Recreation/OHV/Grant0405.html

Any comments?

I just wrote Mr. Graham and put my 2 cents in, this is what I wrote:

Dear Mr. Graham,

I understand you are working on finding out information regarding this topic. I would like to know if you have been able to find any relevant information. Also, would you provide a letter, via e-mail, that we can print and carry with us, in case we are pulled over by DOF Officers. Perhaps one with your name, title and phone numbers.

As you probably already know, there seems to be much confusion and/or jurisdiction issues between DOF and FWC, one agency says "come in and enjoy, just make sure you wear a helmet" and you are waved on. The other says "you are not allowed to operate ATVs in this area, you have to leave".

What is being done to take advantage of the "T. Mark Schmidt Off-Highway Vehicle Recreation Grant Program"?, What is being done with the $726,000.00 allocated to the State of Florida for this purpose?

Looking forward to your prompt response.

More info found in the South Florida Water Management District website regarding Picayune:

Off Road Vehicle (ORV) Use

Past ORV use has been primarily associated with access for hunting and allied activities. Swamp buggies and four-wheel drive trucks were used, while all terrain vehicles (ATVs) have been utilized in more recent times. ORV’s and street legal vehicles may be allowed in conjunction with recommended public uses. Vehicles will be restricted to designated roads. When public access is established in Flint Pen Strand, several existing buggy trails will be designated for use by vehicles. All other vehicle regulations will remain unmodified.

JeffP I can't believe your talking like that.  The new Mark T Off-Road highway act is a law that requires the state to find new riding areas.  DOF is in charge of finding the riding areas.  Picayune Strand is a State Forrest and DOF has already promised to find an area to either ride in Picayune or somewhere close by.  There's a reason Hank Graham says that DOF's position has not changed and is going to continue to let ATV's in the forrest.  Hank Graham appears to be on our side and fighting to let us continue to ride in there.  I say the next thing everyone does is call that FWC office in West Palm and ask for some clarification.  I still believe in that ATV Park in Picayune and we need to fight for it.

Here's the number to FWC's South Office.  I'm going to call them first thing Monday and ask for the person in charge of Picayune.  If they can't get me in touch with that person then I'll ask for an email address and let you all know.

South Region
8535 Northlake Boulevard
West Palm Beach, FL 33412
(561) 625-5122

hey this is sean i had just gotten off phone with the florida diision of forestry he told me that they dont mind the riding and gave me some info that there is a lawer in your area named Douglas L Ranken realastate lawer we need to get with him and he had also told me  that ther is a lot of atv shops in your area that want to get to the bottom of this the DOF said to form a ralley and see what they do about then they will back us see if you can get any of your freinds out there i know i can round up about 100 or so maybe even more

if any ? feal free to call 305-216-4932

The FWC is not allowing ATV use, because of the hunnters that got the 1st time permmit to hunt there , the FWC said there game is getting to much pressure from ATV use.  i bet after hunting season, FWC will let up a little that is when the DOF HAS TO STAND UP AND GET IN THERE!!!

Smells like poop to me. People have been hunting out there for years. The area is listed as "poor" in the FWC hunting guide. I'm sure it will get better when the water table is three feet higher.:(
I have had more deer and bears in my yard than I have seen out there in 10 years.

well for years Big cypress has been shared by hunters and pleasure riders, so that is not the issue, i was in the national parks office today and they says its all up to the DOF,  what i feel is 'we who do ride out there need to tread lightly and not draw attention as to give them a reason to kick us out, now as for the FWC  my boss is an ex officer an he says since it went from game and fish commision to FWC they really dont have much communication between departments, most FWC officers out there are part time guys lookinf to make there hours for the month,  from an FWC employes mouth"write to a senator, or someone else besides the FWC"..................

Any answers from this Lisa Douglas lady?

Just sent an e-mail to governor Bush, here is what I wrote:

Dear Mr. Bush,

There is a riding site located at Picayune State Park, seems to be much confusion and/or jurisdiction issues between DOF and FWC, one agency says "come in and enjoy, just make sure you wear a helmet" and you are waved on. The other says "you are not allowed to operate ATVs in this area, you have to leave".  We need your help regarding this issue, the bottom line is that apparently the patrol officers are not aware of the decisions being made by higher commands. In the end the officers on patrol are the ones enforcing the rules, but they seem to be getting different orders other than the information being given to us, the public.

I have sent messages to both agencies, but have not received a concrete response. The only response given is that the information has been passed on to the appropriate person or persons, but have seen no results.

I would like to know what is being done to take advantage of the "T. Mark Schmidt Off-Highway Vehicle Recreation Grant Program"?, What is being done with the $726,000.00 allocated to the State of Florida for this purpose?

Looking forward to your prompt response as well as some results.

keep on going we may get somewhere

are you still allowed to ride out htere if so were do you get the permit at?

YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you feel now, JeffP..., haha! We got them on our side now, this is GREAT!

LOL I'm not the bad guy.  So far this is like a temporary stay of execution.  Nothing is in writing yet but I hope it works out.  It's the only place in the southern half of the state where people can ride.

I'm still of the opinion Jeb is on the side of the popular vote right now and will sign whatever it takes to get that populus vote.  Which woln't be us.  We make up maybe .05% of the population.

Enjoy it and respect it as long as you can.  Some time is better then none.

AWESOME riding last weekend along with Grizzlysp and other, great time...

that it was even after you got stuck in the slop

Me stuck, you must have been dreamin' I'm the tow truck, remember, hehehe...

so i guess the tow truck got stuck

Guy's and Gal's I just bumped this topic because there is alot of info here and I started a new topic to get everyones attention. Check it out lets get togather and ster up some sh*t again. We all need too.

Thanks,
Matt