ATV Florida Forum

As of this week, Greenways and Trails has closed the Eureka Pit area and all the trails that run under the bridge and south on Greenway property.  They have contracted with Marion County Sheriff's Office to enforce this closure.  This Weekend they will issue warnings and next weekend they wil issue ticket varing from $180 to $300. If you want to ride in this area, you need to ride on the Ocala Forest designated trails.  You can still park on FR 97 (the Pipeline) at where the trails cross andride from there.

you had to know that this was going to happen on the weekend a gathering was planned there... :(

well that really stinks! i loved that pit. :'(

I think that this is the final straw, I'm done with the forest and all the BS. The Eureka pit was the Last place left to ride up there and take the kids where they didn't have to just follow me down a whooped out trail in my dust.  I think I'll sell my place up there now.  :'( :'(. It was fun while it lasted. 

GrizzlyBear how long have you known that this was going to happen?

Sounds like someone reported your planned ride??? Anyone know the reason behind the closure.  >:(

What the fu@k else is the place good for ? :F

They need to start collecting revenue when the permits come out / You can't collect revenue if people ride in areas the Forestry can't control.

why doesn't ONFA do anything to try and stop these closures?

I keep posting on the same subject, they are opening new trails, there just completely incompatible to what we want. They have no ATV users on the commitees or making the decisions, they just have an idealistic view of what they should provide, based on their experiences with horse trails and hiking. Very few people responded to the thread I started, I certainly cannot go to the forestry committees trying to show the members what we need, with only 30 or so names.  :(

Isn't Grizzly is on the board  :dunno.gif , I've asked many of times what the ONFA do to support us with neg results, If its not a positive post about the ONFA or trail system the ONFA will not respond.  They're not trying to make a great trail system they're slowly closing off all area's, implementing more fees to slowly make people not want to go to the forest unitl no on wants to go because of all the BS . For them it's Mission Accomplished

No the ONFA is not the forestry service, they do not make policy decisions for the forest.

 

Maybe not but they are involved a lot with trail system / Not trying to make this about the ONFA. Just want to know why was it closed so suddenly and as stated by Chillinthemost "how long have you known that this was going to happen?"

I was doing a training session Saturday, when a Sheriff's deputy stopped by the OHV Center and told me they were going to close the Eureka Pit area.  As soon as I got home I posted this so people would know.  This pit is not in the Ocala National Forest, but is part of the old Florida Barge canal.  It is run by the State Dept of Greenways and Trails. I was as surprised as everyone that this was closed as I had heard a year ago they were thinking of their own trail system tying in to the forest.

Its total BULLSH!T !!!  :F  They go out of there way to kiss a$$ to the horse people and build them a BRAND NEW area with nice paved parking lots and restrooms out near I-75 and HWY 484 south of Ocala on the Greenway land. Then they go and totally redo the Santos Trail Head at HWY 441-301 and 80th St. with BRAND NEW paved parking lots and restrooms for the mountain bike crowd. They also built a series of asphalt trails for inline skaters  , mountain bike trails to the Marshal Swamp Trail Head and a Frisbee golf course with nice NEW PAVED PARKING LOTS AND RESTROOMS at the corner of HWY 464 and HWY 25 just south of Ocala on Greenway land that USED to be a really cool riding area in the 80s and 90s. What did the ATV community have ? We had a sand pit that was made when they where building the Cross Florida Barge Canal back in the 1940s , cost to them- $0. , that took up MAYBE 20 acres of land with trails leading into the forest. Its a place you can go and ride around with out having to just play follow the leader down a dusty , whooped out trail. If they take this away from us I think I might be done with ATVs. Sell all my bikes and go buy a jet drive jon boat and terrorize the gulf. Im so pissed right now  ..............  :F :F :F :F :F :F :F :F :F :F :F :F

No ONFA is not part of the forest service, but I believe when the ONFA started up they were going to be at the table for the trails to protect them.


Why can't you go to these people with 30 names, isn't that what you and your association is organized for?

Well, now you will have the rally, and names to add to those 30 won't you? Maybe a good project for the new association, get that pit back open! Oh, and Rodman as well?

viper, lisa???  piping up now?  I thought you two were able to leap tall buildings etc?  why havent YOU stopped this from happening?  oh wait, that is right...you come along AFTER something happens and chime in. 

 Actually, this is just another "I told you so" renmus. I have been warning ya'll this has been coming, I just don't have a crystal ball to tell me exactly when or where; nor do I have the financial support to attend all the meetings to know exactly when and where this stuff is coming...and the new association doesn't want my input, hasn't from the start....

 I have been warning everyone not to trust what these offices are telling you, and I have shown you how the Office of Greenways and Trails has Tom Hoctor advising them. He and Linda Duever are the two who are pushing The Wildlands Project (http://twp.org) here in this state. The more you ignore those warnings, the more this is going to happen.

  Here is a paragraph from a report back in 2005, and Eureka pit was probably part of this report.



 Link: Florida Greenways and Trails Council & Florida Communities Trust
Meeting Summary November 16, 2005  (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:qkaF7DYooh0J:www.dep.state.fl.us/gwt/quick_links/fgtc/pdf/11-16-05%2520Mtg.%2520Summary.pdf+tom+hoctor+office+of+greenways+and+trails&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a)

  If you don't know the key words that are being used in the meetings. If you don't keep an eye on the ones you know are your enemy, they will get this stuff through, and as you see, you lose!

  Afraid of the challenge? With so many people on the board and members, ya'll should be able to get all these types of meeting covered, you shouldn't be caught unawares again!  ???

The association actually represents over 1,000 riders now.  ;)

What I wanted was for everyone who rides to comment on what they wanted from their riding areas and take a few thousand responses, written by individuals to them. PM me if you need further clarification of what the original post was about.


LOL.

actually, when you look at groups like Florida Defenders of the Environment, you see who the real enemy is.  These people use the government entities like puppets.  The push is made very slickly by a large organized group of people.  I think Paul and the Association is the start of our response.  Unfortunately, they have a heck of a head start on us.

  Glad to see you took my reply for what it was, a suggestion. Also glad to see you are ready to get started taking comments and suggestions from the rally....good start!

  Yes they do renmus, but don't let that discourage you. They are afraid that the ATVers will rally behind a strong Association, because you have the numbers. You can get the money, you can get the support. You can sway the politicians. It will take a while, but it can be done! Has been done!

Thanks Remus, that is exactly what the problem is.

Nobody is representing us, so of course they just do what they think is best for the forest.

I put the post on both Fl based atv sites, trying to get people to list out what they want to see in their riding areas, the response was pitiful, I can't go to these guys, with 30 or 40 names and tell them with any seriousness that is representative of all ATV riders.  So they get to do things the way they think they should be done, not the way we would like them done.

Nobody is more pissed about this latest closure than me, but if we choose not to do anything to present any serious opposing viewpoint or some different options to them - then who is really at fault?

Hopefully if we can present a united front, we will have more say in their future plans. If not, we shall have to explore other avenues.

We are making a start though, they definately know us now and have indicated a willingness and desire to work with us. So let's see where we go.

The real problem with this association is that they don't what to do. You got 30 people more than enough to get this open again, or is this too much of a challenge.

Parrie Master - Will find out tomorrow why it got closed.

  *S* actually Paul, yes you could. The trick is to be as slick as they are. Do you really think they represent a large segment of society? Nope... They take petitions to grocery stores, pet stores, festivals etc. to get names. Those folks don't actually belong to the society, they just signed a petition!

 It takes actual work though. Something I haven't had the time to do. Whenever I told my husband I wanted to go talk to the ATVers out here in ONF, he found something for us to be doing that day....(his way of telling me I am putting too much time into something that I am getting little support on, and spending way too much grocery money to do)

  You ride the forest? Take a pen and paper, or a petition and have everyone sign it that you come across....get names, phone numbers, email addresses, etc. It isn't hard, just time consuming....those 30-40 will add up.. ::)

It is easy to put a name on a sheet and sign it --- 1,000 people where, with that many people you should have no problem getting it open again. Imagine if you charged those 1,000 people 5 dollars for fees, you would have enough to hire a lawyer to open it back up, but I forgot you already have a lawyer on staff.

1,000 peple with names on a piece of paper doesn't mean squatt

I have been kinda absent from this site and riding lately because I've been busy with work. It seems that more and more areas are closing down and we haven't heard crap from our good friends at ONFA which I'm a member. Are the Big Scrub trails still a go or is that closing down too? I will not settle for the stupid a$$ trails up at Delancy. Nothing but a bunch of whooped out $hit. I thought we were getting a big loop from Big Scrub up to Delancy. NOTHING has been done for atv riders except inconveniences. I have only been going to ONF since 03 but it seems we won't have anything before it's over. I have never disagreed that there needs to be a handle on atv's in ONF. I've seen some f'ed up stuff in a few years. I just want what is fair, which is a good trail system that can handle the amount of riders we have. I, as others have paid for my green sticker to only hear over and over riding areas are closing. In the past year I bought my daughter a new 125 Grizzly and we just got our new toy hauler last weekend. Another 28k spent to play in this sport. Why can't Florida follow in the footsteps of other states who have provided riding areas. Rodman and Eureka would be great places to have courses like DTP has. Mike built several of them and people enjoy that. Those could have been the places to ride hard and get on your bike and the trails could be for fun riding. That's just my observation of the whole thing. I'm sure some will disagree with me. There is a lot of people spending money in this sport from bikes, clothes, campers and other things. These are jobs mofo!! which we need people working. Just give us some areas and let us have fun and then stfu.

Well said  :Clap.gif

What I don't get is Rodman and Eureka are barren landscape. Nothing there but sand. Nothing will grow there. The government dug those holes years ago to make those stupid dams that didn't accomplish anything and now I hear they want to tear them down. Closing those areas down only makes the areas a more private dump for the locals as far as I am concerned. I'm pissed off now, I spend a chunk of change there every couple weeks hell I might be supporting a couple families up there. The ONFA ain't doing nothing up there as far as I am concerned. In the almost a year since I bought that property up there I went from riding where I want for free to riding on crappola and having to pay for it. When I first went there you could ride all day and not see a soul now I'm scared to get out out of first gear for fear of a head on. Now I might as well be a trail guide at least twice a weekend I'm giving directions to riders. 

I never thought I would say this but it seems ONFA "IS THE PROBLEM". I was led to believe that this group was going to form a relationship between off road enthusiasts and the forestry service. An informative group to let us know what we can do in the forest and what will be allowed to ride on. One stinkin ride was all that happened.
As far as the pits go I don't understand either. If they were under water all the time or supported some form of life I might understand why it closed. It's funny how the gov't tore the hell out of that place but we are going to be blamed now. That dam was the most unnatural thing to ever occur in that area.
I know a lot of people bashed Lisa but like I said before she is not all wrong. A little paranoid at times lol but she said what was coming. The thing that really really surprises me is some of the people on the board of ONFA are people I thought were for us. Maybe when they were asked to be on the board they were misinformed of the real deal. I see ONFA as a big smoke screen and guess what? The smoke is clearing and it did exactly what it was designed to do. I am not afraid to speak my peace on this. If Terry or Ida would like to discuss this in person to the people who joined this organization I would respectfully do so. I haven't been on this forum in a couple months and I come back to the same story but worse.

ONFA is forest only, why not bash your florida atv assoc, where are they on this.. Isn't that what they are for. I keep hearing 1000 people but yet I don't hear anything...

Yeah, why not bash an organization that is about three months old for something that was already complete before that organization came into being?

Smart Viper..real smart.


You sir are a complete and total jerk.   Care to discuss it in private? PM me and I'll give you my number so we can talk.

Why bash anyone?

We are not paid officials who decide what stays open, what closes or anything like that. We are unpaid volunteers, trying to help and further the sport of atv'ing. You think this seriously think that this is a bad thing....why?

If you think you can do a better job than the ONFA, Florida ATV Association or anyone else who puts their own time and money into trying to help other riders, then why don't you do it.

Just curious as to what is stopping you. What is it that you need, perhaps we can help you? I am being very serious here, unlike you or others who attack unpaid people trying to help, I will help. Let's see what you need to start your own organisations. I think it would be great...I am going to be so happy the day you put a few thousand of YOUR OWN dollars into a venture to improve life for others and some idiots sit there behind a keyboard criticizing you. It will be a good day. So Viper, what are you going to do to help Eureka...what is it that you need from us to assist in that goal?

And Viper, I can do math, obviously if 1,000 people pay $5.00 each you will have $ 5,000, but let me explain a few things. First until we are sure exactly what we are going to do and how we are going to do it, we will not charge anybody a penny. If after we have been around for a while and we need additional funding and decide to charge our members, they will be able to decide if they want to pay - based on performance, not promises.

Second off, we have money. If the problem was as easy as throwing $5,000 at a lawyer and asking him to get Eureka opened up, I would give him the money myself. The association is raising funds without the need for membership fees too, so money is not the problem at this time. Spending it wisely and correctly is the issue. How we decide to do that won't be discussed on an open forum like this neither. Too many people who want to see us fail, like yourself, read this.

Lisa, we are always open to help, and if you feel that you have something to offer the association, again I invite you to e-mail me. laptop@vol.com

Maybe there are spies among us for the anti crowd.

Paul:

Lisa and Viper once again prove themselves by bringing zero to the table, all the while being hum drum and pointing fingers. They are the type of people that not only bring nothing constructive, but leave no legacy behind. They're a waste of time, effort and breath.

Don't sweat them. They do not matter in any sense of the word.

~ Matt

No certain the outcome but I have been on the phone with Charlie Crist's office, Bill Nelsons office, Greenways and trails Office. currently talking to Jim Wolf, Mickey Tomlinson, and Buddy Meckenzie. I will post the out come of the conversations.

Definetly a inside job!

 
  Already did Paul, read my last post again.... ::)

  Welcome back stacktester! Missed you.....  :-*

UUUHHHMMM let me get this straight you are saying that you knew Eurkea was going to close " that was already complete before that organization came into being?



Paul S - "First until we are sure exactly what we are going to do and how we are going to do it, we will not charge anybody a penny." Interesting you don't know where this association is going, no goals, no objectives, just 1,000 people. As said before 1,000 mean nothing. In three months you should know exactly where and what this association is going to do. Betime you get organized there won't be any places to fight for.

So you don't need ones money you have enough.. Interesting. Someone once told me you never will have enough money, I guess you never ran your own business. What good is money if you don't where the organization is going, or what it will do. You have mentioned pay based on performance not promises, it looks like the colors of your organiztion should be black and blue. By that you may not get paid very much now will you.

BTW you don't seem to read very well you did not read ms lisa's post. Eurkea is the associations job, it is the association that is getting tired of seeing closed signs, accoring to your website, not me.

But I must admit today is your lucky day -- good luck to your association and to your rally, I hope the colors of black and blue don't show at the rally.

OK Sniper, intelligent post as usual.  ;D

How would we know where we are going? We have not even had our first board meeting yet.

Of course we have goal and objectives, but how we specifically intend to achieve those is still to be decided.

Never have enough money....that is not true. It is quite possible to have enough money to meet your current goals and objectives.  Now if you are still deciding exactly what they are, it's impossible to budget how much money you are going to require. I have more than enough money to cover the Associations current requirements. As situations arise in the future and our needs change, them we will look at other ways to raise capital. We may even look for a sizeable donation from yourself.

Why would the colors of the organisation be black and blue? We have achieved an incredible amount in the last couple of months.  At least we all know the color of your organisation is going to be green, and it's not just the color of money.  ;D

I read very well thank you, although sometimes it is hard to exactly understand the points you guys are making. I do look forward to your posts though, we all have a good laugh and it always causes a little jump in the numbers of people signing up.

I am curious why you continually dodge the question of how you intend to help, are you just a keyboard jockey?

Also what type of ATV do you ride, what style of riding do you prefer? Are any of the issues we are looking at going to affect you. You have to remember this association is for ATV users. We are going to do the best for us and unless you are an ATV rider it is hard for you to grasp that.

This is a problem many of us have with Lisa too, our understanding is she is for equal access for public land for everybody. I applaud what she does, she is perhaps a little too brash for my taste, but I am probably a little to soft for hers, but I respect anyone who is trying to help. But the truth is we could care less about what other groups want (unless they directly overlap something we are working on), that is for them to lobby for. We care what is being done for ATV riders and sometimes there are conflicts. We are already experiencing this now, in the short time we have been formed, we have already been offered opportunities to partner and developer a few things already. We are going to be looking at what is the best for our members only in these ventures.

Well said Paul. As for piper , thats just it. Someone that pipes off. Kind of like gnats around a dogs pecker if you ask me.

No first board meeting – the organization knows where and what it is going to do before it even forms. Obviously you would not know about those things. What did you form this organization on??

What have you achieved in the last couple of months – nothing except organizing a rally that seems to be more of a free for all and that will probably give the association a black eye. Guest speakers are who ?? Newspapers are who??

See you missed the point again, reading is not the problem it is comprehending what you read, or is that word too big for you.

What issues are you looking at that are going to effect me or the ATV population. There was no first board meeting yet, three months and no first board meeting, it sounds like you don’t know what to do. Do you even know who is on the board. With that how is the association going decide issues, remember no board meeting.

Now this association is about just ATVers before it was all about all off road riders, you have changed your tune. Is the rest of the OHV world too good for you, they know who the organization is and don’t want to become part of it. What do you think??

We could care less what other groups want, but won’t that grow your organization?? So you don’t want other groups to help, that is interesting.

Who is going to look at what is best for the venture, board hasn’t been formed. It looks like this association is what you want, forget the rest of the OHV world. Partner with you sure, remember words are cheap.

My riding doesn’t make a difference, keyboard jockey doesn’t make a difference, I have nothing to prove, only your association does.

You just keep avoiding the questions. You are not an ATV'er are you?

What makes you so important that you think we have to prove anything to you. I only answer you as it helps our membership grow. So you are useful for that purpose, granted.

Dude, why do you keep trying to pick apart everything, buy a playstaion or something and go zap some aliens, you could pretend you are saving the world.

Our little association is rolling along very nicely, far better than we had hoped. If you can do better, good luck, you go Tiger (http://www.floridaatv.com/smf/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/tu2.gif) Look forward to your progress reports, me I choose to keep a lid on what we are doing so little idiots with nothing better to do can't sit and destroy the work we are doing. You can believe me not, I doubt you will find more than 6 people who care what you believe, I am certainly not one of them.

If you do go with the playstation idea, game fly is a great place to rent games.

IMHO.....Bart & Lisa are picking you guys apart & putting up walls for the association to bang their heads on. They will keep slamming you guys as long as you let them. They always take the pessimistic side of things & the association could sh*t $50 dollar bills in their pool & they would b*tch for $100's. I beleive they are lurking on this board & using all the info against this group for personal reasons. Taking posts out of context & forwarding their "take" on it to the people who will shut us down. It is easy to be paranoid from reading all of this crap & seeing closures happening right before group rides. I say either bring them on into the association & make them work with it as commited members or ban their IP address & be done with them totally!!!!! I beleive lisa has had some valuable input, but bart(aka viper) is worthless & is always trying to stir sh*t! Either get on the bus or get the heII off!!!
IMHO it appears that things are getting roadblocks every step of the way.

On the other hand, I could just be wayyy too paranoid, but if it quacks like a duck, its usuall a duck.

I agree 100%.

If the membership join up rate did not go up, every time we respond to them, I would do what the ONFA do and ignore them, but if someone does not mind making themselves look like the way he does, then who am I to stop him. Sniper has done great work in bringing the association up and making more people aware of it. As to working with him, I seriously doubt our board would consider this, that would just destroy our membership base, now if they started their own association and wanted to work alongside us, that might work.

I have a couple of minutes to answer his rantings, so they are not doing anything to harm us, in fact between the laughs he provides and the bumping of the association topics, I look forward to reading what words he is trying to jumble together, but I feel that attacking people who are trying to help, just discourages other groups from trying something and the Playstation option would be best.

Perhaps we could even arrange to buy it.

It is painfully obvious Viper and Lisa are full of crap.....They claimed to be the All Knowing On our side people when it came to the Forest and surround areas...Lisa even used the term Expertise. We have a case of 2 overzelous idiots trying to pick the Association apart. Leave them to their idiotic ramblings. I can not stand  people that offer nothing but negative....Lisa , Viper...Put the Natty Ice down...and sober up.....


They have nothing to offer...and Probably are working against us....

working against us.

This I believe. >:(

It is Obvious...and quite frankly I am pissed...seeing you folks Wasting such energy on people like them.....Grizz and the ONFA speaks we listen....Dreth and The Association has something to say..we listen...

Who are they and why should we care?

I dont care who you are, that is funny right there^^^

  *S* wait a minute....I haven't bashed, trashed or put up any walls in this thread. In fact, offered advice on what to do on this thread and another one......Why are you guys dragging me in the mud this time? (FYI, Anoriginal started the mud slinging this time, not me...)

Mudslingin ? Ya can't sling mud with all the land closed !  :'(  I just had to say something  ;D

Mudslinging? No, it's teling the truth. Lisa and Viper came here with no purpose other than to stir the pot and start crap. Neither has accomplished anything with their lives or time and now want the rest of the world to be miserable with them.

They are insignificant in all aspects. Nobody in any power position capable of benefiting us listens to either of them. Wastes.

Okay...let me see here I gotta write this down so I can add it to
quad's list of qualification's, um #1 can ride a quad really er... kinda fast #2 an expert on Gnat's and Dog Pecker's, ya got anything else I can add?
I know this post is silly and irrelevant, but what the hey, so are viper's.

Beer swillin !  Dont forget beer swillin ! :Clap.gif

Right then, beer swillin it is.
I think I could give ya a run for your money in that department though ;D

LOL

Not to break up your bashing on each other party, But has anyone looked into the closure of the pit area, specifically the reason behind it and how long ago was it proposed to be closed.

  Hence my point, the association doesn't want any input from me. Here I have given some ideas, and this is the kind of response anyone who doesn't agree with the association gets; even when they try to help. I guess my suggestion of challenging the news station, that ran bad press about ATVs, to attend the meeting was too.

  Actually, I am doing something for the OHVs in the Black Bear Byway meetings. I am working to keep OHVs involved and upfront in the Corridor story
  But you are right Anoriginal, I don't get anything accomplished.

  Good questions Prairie Master. My guess, it was at least 2-years ago, and probably because of "ecological damage" to the area. Remember Tom Hoctor was doing reports for the Office of Greenways and Trails.

I could zip out there in the afternoon and ride with my daughter cause Im only 20 miles from there. Im going to reopen it myself. ;)

It was closed because nobody had objected to the closure. The only voice raised in any objection to the closure was believe it or not, our old adversary the SFWMD, they spoke in favor of keeping it open.

Hence the need for the association, hence for the need for all this crap to stop.

Office Of Greenways called me and promised to keep the association in the loop in future projects. We even discussed some areas they manage that the association may be able to help them open for ATV use.

I commend you Paul for staying on top of things and REALLY doing something to help. :ThumbsUp.gif

 :Clap.gif you da man Paul

Your full of BS paul -- who did you talk to..

Thanks for the reply Paul.... Now for Grizz How come the ONFA wasn't aware of the meeting to vote on the closure, I know it's not the Ocala Forest but its in the same area ONFA helps to represent. I'm tired of seeing more and more restrictions and closures. What are you guys (ONFA ) Doing ? Correct if I'm wrong but you want people to join these associations to help promote and stop these things from happening and all we can see happening is more closed areas.  >:(
I'm not bashing anyone I just want the associations which recieve grants and funds from the state to do what they are suppose to do. That money being used (in regards to grants) in these associations are coming mine and everyone elses pockets.

Paul_S  please post if you hear of future meetings

  

    :R 2:L :L

  And you believed them?!?!?!  :R Oh, and we are supposed to believe you have such power that this agency called you?  ::)

  Okay, that is enough for me....I am not going to debate that issue, if Paul believes that the Office of Greenways and Trails is going to work with ya'll, more power to him and the association (and if you believe that Office of Greenways and Trails called him about this, out of the blue, because the association/rally is so powerful already ya'll need a CAT scan) Just folks, don't give up the idea of selling your home here and moving to another state where they are more ATV friendly. If the fight down in Collier County isn't enough to show Paul and the rest of NPORA that these agencies are not to be trusted, then nothing will.

  I truly am sorry to be slinging mud here too, but I just can't let Paul's post pass.....  :L

   I am done with this conversation....  :N

Do you think it may be possible that the association has contacted them, and they called because of that? We have actually done allot as an association. Mostly gathering facts about Atvs (sales, injuries, damage to land, etc.), and figuring out the proper contacts for our problem.

:oo :dunno.gif

Actually the Brett Bush from the forest had mentioned to Mickey Thomason from the Office Of Greenways that he should call the association regarding the closure of Eureka, and he did. Rather than run your mouth and look like a troublemaking fool again, CHECK YOUR FACTS!!!!

As you are universally hated, I guess this concept of people working together does go over your head. While he was on the phone he also invited the association to get involved on a new project with them.

And Lisa, you were being so nice this week, I guess a few days of civility was all you could manage before you had to lie and try to deceive everybody again. You cannot resist throwing mud - any opportunity you get.

I pray you are done with this conversation, but somehow doubt it.

I will make sure Vipers Playstation has 2 remotes.  ;)

And everybody, please take note, this is why ONFA or hardly anyone else bother to answer your questions. I answered a question, posed by Prairie Master and it's met by that cr@p from that nasty piece of work.  Basically accusing someone she has never met of being a liar and out to decieve people.

From now on my standard response to those 2 clowns is going to be Blah Blah Blah, I am done with them.

Thanks for getting out there and getting something done Paul. It's much better when people put their minds to focusing on the problem instead of running their mouths, talking cr@p and bashing you for making an effort. I say if you aren't out there busting your a$$ like Paul and Chuck trying to get answers and keep our riding spots open then you should just shut you hole and quit finger pointing.
atvdramaforyamomma.comma  :o

atvdramaforyamomma.comma  :o
[/quote]
now thats funny !!!!!!

Paul:

Thanks for the info and keep up the work. Like I said before, Lisa and Viper are idiots who really have accomplished nothing(Wow! Lisa submitted comments from someone else to a board......big deal. Hope that helps make up for failing to show in front of Gov. Bush and rattling off the wrong info at a black bear ONF meeting. LOL). So, they like to bash everyone else's attempts and spout gloom and doom before you get started.

They're not unlike flies at a picnic. They don't necessarily ruin the whole event, they just annoy you a little.

~ Matt

Oh thanks for the typo correction Lisa. You're a genius!

Aorginal - at least she submitted comments from somewhere, what have you done. You get on and try to make amends to make the association look good, and prove nothing. A think somewhere I saw a post that you were real busy and didn't have the time to answer -- UUUUUhhhhhmmm It doesn't look that way.

NO! What have you done? You keep questioning what we have done in yet when you are asked the same question you have no answer ???I was the one that said " I am to busy to respond to you knuckle heads"!

And Paul, the 2 controllers for the playstation about made me fall out of my chair :D

I'll second that.. ;D

Viper:

Here's the funny part. You and people of your ilk (like Lisa) dodge the truth like it's a plague. The association is hardly a few months old. The Eureka pit closure is over two years old. But, then again, if you and your ilk were as informed as you claim to be, you'd already know the following:

1.  The proposed closure was published as far back as 2004.

2.  Other than a comment made by the water management district in favor of keeping the pit open for ORV use (yep, you read that right, they were in favor of keeping it open for ORV use) nobody made any comments pro ORV.

3.  Prior to closing the pit, input was sought directly from ORV organizations such as FTR and numerous "Jeep oriented" associations/organizations. All of these inquiries went unanswered. (Hey, isn't Lisa a big "Jeep Club" guru?----Oh, that's right, they ostracised her because she pulled the same crap with them as she tries here.)

So, Mr. Viper the almighty and all informed, Dreth is right. What have you done? Where were you and Lisa when this was going on in your own back yard? The ATV association wasn't even a dream at the time this all started. However, if you and your ilk were truly involved and concerned the way you claim to be, it is you that has some explaining to do as to why you let this happen without opening your mouth.

God I love making you and Lisa look like the morons you are. Now go away or I'll thrash you again dummy. Boooo-yaaahhhh!

Ok now that NPORA has been mentioned, I must respond

We have to work with all state agency that oversee the land that want to aqiure for riding areas period.

I believe that a temporary riding area has been established in Collier County and a permanent site is in the works thanks to Rick, Brian, and Dennis for getting the riders of SW Fla organized.

Ill leave it at that............. Im done with the naysayers.
 

You just don't seem to get it - I have nothing to prove - never have.

ScooterB thanks for the post - I know there was a previous thread with a conversation with one of the local newspapers in that area. Again thanks for the update. I hope everything works out for Rick and Dennis who have spent alot of time working on people down there.

Then what makes anything you say credible? or Worth acknowledging.

Well he has demonstrated the amazing ability to incite folks with only 78 posts under his belt. Took me nearly 600 to get there.  ;)

Viper/ Lisa:
 I eagerly await the response to the question of the hour. That being; Where are the fruits of your labor?
Forget the 2 stepping and the games of dodge bal & name calling or to Paul’s point Put the PS2 controller down. Here is why.
 If a nobody like me can pick a phone, write a few Emails and fax a few documents to raise attention and be enlighten of several down falls of communication within the OHV organization, then you 2 have no excuse not to produce results. Period! Lisa you whined and cried that you put to much time in and sacrificed you family time. That being said surely you would have something to contibute other than what we have

During the duration of this Thread I have probably talked with,emailed,faxed and had one on one conversations with representative of several political offices the OHVCC,AMA, Greenways and Trails and the F.T.R  just to name a few.
 Here are the Fruits of my Labor. The closures boil down to the lack of communications and representation (am I wrong or was that your job) One comment that speak droves of truth is   Here is why. After a lengthy conversation with Wayne Briske of NOHVCC I was enlightend that the representative Jack Torelle was tasked with ensuring that all the information regarding Eureka was to be put out to representing organizations for objections. The Representing organizations ias a whole were to submit their Objections.  Being that this was not done and the representation was not present to include an absent Jack Torelle curing the vote of closure. We had no foot to stand on. That is truely unsatisfactory.
 I can assure you that I am not done. Anyone who knows me and the diligence I have when tasked, will attest to the no prisoners type approach that I posses. Now aside from all the Hot air you 2 have belched in lieu of results might I suggest developing an action plan and working with the Florida ATV Association for the benefit and positive resolve. Other wise I think I speak for many here, pack your crap and divorce yourself from this site. Because when you bring nothing to a relationship you get nothing out of it.  

Has anyone spoken with Jack Torrelle?

   Yes bigscrub, I had thought of that before I posted; but then I read Paul's post again and didn't see him say they called him back. Without meaning to sound condescending, I do thank you for pointing that out.

  I know that these agencies don't just call groups/associations/clubs because of posts like this, let alone individuals. Even folks who have way more influence than this association has (an association that hasn't even had their first meeting yet as Anoriginal keeps pointing out....) don't get called up like Paul was insinuating. Now, if Paul contacted them to find out why Eureka was closed, and they returned his call that is different. But to cold contact, as Paul suggested; nope won't buy that with a wooden nickel at all! And neither should you!  :-\

  Chillin, his name is Jack Terrell and if you want, I will call him.....it has been a while, but unless he is swamped with an emergency, or out of town, he will usually take my call.

 

I can't see what difference it makes, but obviously he did not just dial some random digits and was lucky enough to speak to me. But did I call his agency first, no.  Was he returning a call from me or someone else from the association, no.  Best I can gather is that the US forestry service were discussing the closure of Eureka and the US Forestry service advised the Office Of the Greenway to call me and let me know why.  Had a very interesting conversation with him too.

Was I planning on calling him anyway to talk about Eureka, yes. Does it matter who called who first...well I guess it does to you and Sniper, I seriously doubt anyone else here cares and probably wishes they could just get the time back, they just wasting reading this schoolhouse cr@p. I sure wish I could.  :(

The Problem is not with Jack Torrelle, And to answer the question efforts to contact him have been made. He is no longer the President of the F.T.R. He is at the National level for NOHVCC. As soon as I hear back from him I will let you know. Paul S. had conversation with him at the last committee meeting. Paul spoke highly of him.

Jack is way cool Chuck...and he gets things done.

 again, okay Paul....  ::)

I just want to know one thing........What is an ilk? :S

Its french for mofo

(http://www.floridaatv.com/smf/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/icon-1_4.gif) (http://www.floridaatv.com/smf/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/icon-1_4.gif) (http://www.floridaatv.com/smf/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/icon-1_4.gif) (http://www.floridaatv.com/smf/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/tu2.gif)

He is land chairman for ftr anyone can pick that off the FTR website. The name is Jack Terrell, he is founder of ftr.

Now the truth behind the closure, to you paul and others it won't make a bit of difference, but i will speak anyway.

From OGT - The eerosion and downhill flow of sand into the river floodplain combined with the USFS designated trails next door all combined to make closure the decision.

Now if you really want to get it back open, there is a real easy way to do that, but you will have to work real hard, and from what i can see none of you are willing to work that hard, you want things handed to you on a silver plate.

Shame we can't all be great like you.  :( :(

Sniper, your mom asked me to pick up your supper tonight, I hope this will do;

(http://www.nathanwilson.com/views/why/hater_tots.jpg)

Here is something to wash those down with viper.

AND I THOUGHT THE PLAYSTATION CONTROLERS WERE FUNNY :D

Well I'll be danged, I tought an Ilk was one them long horned critter's I saw at the zoo when I stopped in Mississippi for some Pascagoula.

it means "group of people", or family.

and usually with a derogatory connotation attached thereto :N

Why isn't the news about the closure of Eureka not up on your florida atv association forum? Why isn't the newspaper article about collier county up on florida atv association forum? Collier county is in your neck of the woods.

I got this one Paul.........................blah blah blah blah blah blah blah :R :R :R :R

I try not to get involved in these discussions, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask you directly viper... What is the real easy way to get the Eureka pit back open for OHV use? I don't mind working for it. I'm a contractor for both Greenways & Trails and USFS, so that may help as well. 
Please let me know.

Viper:

Why aren't you going down the pipe? I keep flushing and flushing and flushing........

Oh, and where's your website and association? Why didn't you step up and comment on the Eureka Pit closure? Oh, Nevermind, it's the ATV Association's fault, even though it wasn't formed.

You're really an idiot. I mean that.

I want viper to answer fastrnriks question. Well ? Where waiting !

Viper: Give me some info on Eureka. If you don't want to post in the forum, PM me with it.

The heck with this! I'm closing up early and headed to my place in the Keys! Have a good one everyone.

Even you Viper and Lisa.

Your English Composition Teacher called and said to tell you never to list her as a reference :lecture.gif
and that isn't not the truth.

And I thought Ilk was the last name of a famous actress..... :-\

Smart move!

Still no reply from viper???

He's a little tied up right now with all the ilk he's gotten all over himself from posting on this thread.

griper is still trying to figure out how to answer it without sounding like a dumb @zz.

:L :L :L

I dont think he'll find a way

What I want to know is what does he/she do for a living ? Does he/she ride a 4-wheeler ? Does this person WANT to see good things happen for us , the riding community ? Answers would be nice. What do you say viper and lisa ?

griper got burned

:T  Thats is funny stuff right there