ATV Florida Forum

http://www.miamiherald.com/416/story/93664.html

The newspaper is obviousley a bunch of illiterates. "car fixer"???, how about "car repairman", "automotive technician" , "auto repair business owner". I cant beleive the editor allowed the term "fixer" to be on his headline.

I am surprised the Ignoramus that wrote this article...did not find a way to say an ATV started the fire on the Buggy. :tsktsk.gif

LMFAO!!! HAHAHAhahahaahHAHAHAHHAAH

A friend of ours knows the guy that owns the buggy.  We were talking about this a few days ago, now I don't know whole story, but for whatever reason, there was a game wardon on the buggy with them, at least this is what I was told.  They were going out to check on some camps or something to that nature.  Also, told that and this was right after it happen, that if they fined him, it would be the end of him financially.  

You know something is seriously wrong with our justice system, and our State.  Let's see you shot some pour soul in the head, and you only get what 3 years, and they now want to let him out early.  But an accidental fire, without malice, without intent, and they want you to $44,000.  Heck you kow what, if somebody actually intentional set that fire, they even wouldn't get fined that much.  Please, gets me ticked  :banghead.gif :banghead.gif :banghead.gif  

All this is....trying to make people stop going out to the glades, scaring them so bad that they won't even ride out there.  I mean think about it, this means everytime you ride out there, you take a risk of losing everything that you worked so hard for....  

Like I have said before, lets put some of the blame on Water Mgmt, come on, they are the ones that drained out the Lake, and pumped al into the ocean.  That's the truth, that's more liable than a poor guy out there riding his buggy..... :banghead.gif :banghead.gif

This should really piss everyone off, cause it is soley directed at keeping people out of the Holey Lands...  They can call what they want, but please......

To me, all the different associations (like airboats, buggies, atvs), should hold a rally for this guy.  The money should NOT go towards paying the State back either, it should go to hiring some serious lawyers to fight the State.  

This is bull!

I agree that all the clubs down there may want to hold a rally/fundraiser to help the guy if all this is true. Why were they "checking on some camps"? Dont even try to fight the state, most lawyers wont even hear a case against the state. It is a no win situation. The state will use taxpayer money to defend it to the millions & we pay for it & the guy will still lose. If you know him well why dont you have him contact the clubs & organizations & try to get something going down there.

Like I said, I don't know the whole story, but the weren't checking on camps in bad way.  I'll talk to my friend (if you all remember Vicki who told you all about w/her fight w/cancer - it's her husband that knows the owner of the buggy).  If anyone interested I will get the whole story....  The guy that owns the buggy is from what told, a really nice guy.....

We all know what happens to people who 'check cabins' in the Holeylands here on ATVFLORIDA Cheropride. ;)

For the record, this is total BS. The thing needed to burn anyway. They should pay the guy for doing their work.

$44,000 does seem cheap for all I saw going on out there...at least they cut him a deal. That helicopter and bucket rig must cost big $$ to run..

if they were checking on camps,,,,what were they checking for, and if there WAS a game wardon with him,,,,wouldn't that be considered official business if it was something they were checking in the course and scope of federal business?

just speculation, but questions need to be raised if this was the case.

Id@

Yea, it's really weird about the game wardon being with him.  Like I said, need to find out more about what they were actually doing.  I just remembering Ernie (the friend) saying "man it's total b/s, there was even a frigging game wardon on the buggie w/him"...  and then he went on to say about how they guy was freakin out w/facing the fine deal....  I was like yea... I would be too.  When Ernie gets home tonight I will get some more details, also ask and/or suggest that some of area associations try and do something.  I know few of the people involved w/airboat association, see if they have heard anything..... My take from the conversation w/Ernie it wasn't like they were just out there joy riding, but I really don't recall the specifics, but again, this is second hand information - so I will see if I can get the whole story if anyone interested....

I am interested for sure.

Id@

Kawa3

Please keep us updated. I have better things to do with $44,000 after a ride...really sucks.

I sure will, Ernie lives near my home, and when he gets home from work, I will talk to him directly. I want to make sure that we all have the exact events that took place.  Ernie and I had this conversation the weekend before last, I specifically recall the issue w/the Game Warden, I just don't recall the entire conversation.  I will talk to him this evening, and will let you all know what I find.  Perhaps too, Ernie has spoken w/the buggie owner since this time, and we can even find out more....

Will keep you all posted....

Okay just got back from Ernies, and from what he told me is...

They where out there, they knew the game warden, and the game warden either had some people or knew them, asked the guy if they could ride out with him.  They weren't checking camps or anything, just wanted to ride out there.  The game warden knew the guy that owns the buggy, so thats why he went with him.  Evidently they stopped and went to start the buggy back up, and it started an electical fire on the buggy.  They got the fire out on the buggy, but with it being so dry, well we know the rest.... 

The owner of the buggy was told that he could also served time, but he ONLY has to pay restitution.  Like Ernie said, it's just a big media thing, cause anyone knows damn well he can't afford to pay that kind of money. 

Apparently this guy comes around here alot, and I am sure that I will here more, and I will let you know.  He goes to my husband's friend shop alot, and I will see if my husband can find our more information. 

Well that's about what I was told....

Hubby home, spoke with him, he knows the buggy owner too, he said yea it's a bunch of b/s.  Apparently the game warden and him are good friends, and that's why the game warden was on the buggy.  And it was just an electrical issue with the buggy.  I will let you all know if anything else developes....

When an automobile has an "electrical issue" which forces the fire department to extinguish the fire and the police to manage the traffic jam, etc., does the automobile owner get fined to pay that bill? If the answer is yes and his insurance company pays the bill then how can we OHVers think we get a free ticket to thrust the bill onto taxpayers? Was it an electrical issue or was there no flame arrestor on that buggy? Regardless, we should support the buggy operator that the fine is excessive and support any rally or fund-raiser to help him pay the fine.

what does...."checking camps"mean?!?!

   I think everyone should get involved with this.It has a lot to do with our sport having a bad name.Are you saying that if I happen to crash and my quad starts a fire, I'm gonna lose everything because of an accident?That is total BS!!
   There screwing him and we should fight this too.And, if the game warden asked him to go out there, then he shouldn't be held accountable for helping out a government official.Would they of sued the game warden if it was his vehicle that started the fire? Of course not!!

LOL, out there it means riding on the trails, because you can't miss them when you do.

Here's the Dept of Forestry e-mail address, let yourself be heard!!!!


Email: dof_support@doacs.state.fl.us

Here's my e-mail to DOF

Dear Sir/Madam



Yesterday I read an article in the Miami Herald where it talks about a swamp buggy operator fined $44,000 dollars for an "accidental"fire out in the Holey lands area. I find this as nothing more than a concerted effort on behalf of the state into intimadating people to stay out of public lands, lands that we as tax payers paid for and continue to pay for their upkeep. What happens if this persons vehicle caught fire on 1-95? I dont think the state would be sending him a bill would they? Again nothing more than discrmination against the "historic culture" of the Gladesman.



Let's then think about this, is the swamp buggy owner entitled to his tax money back when there are no fires being fought? I mean all those people are getting paid to sit around for something to happen. Accidents do happen, and this seems to be one of them.I ask that you please reconsider this fine as this will financially ruin this individual, and at the end of the day, the land will still be there.

You are the man. My version of your letter is on the way as well.

Thxs, we need EVERYONE to e-mail them.......C'mon folks, help out this person in need, this could be any of us one day.Do good, if not evil will prevail....

When I get back from riding the EXACT spot where the fire occurred today, I am actually going to pen/paper another one and send it via USPS.

The pictures of how fire helps the swamp will also be posted.

I think I'll carry a fire extinguisher from now on though..:)

As lswjth2 so elegantly stated, this COULD be ANY of US one day. Remember who actually paid that firefighting bill people. I know I would rather have had the tax money in my pocket....

Just to answer a few questions...

The checking camp things, is like what jack said, basically the game warden & buggy owner were friends, so they were basically out there just as a friendly ride.

Yes it was electrical problem, malfunction, it had nothing to do with a spark arrester, the buggy's electrical system actually caught on fire.  Apparently they did have a fire extinguisher or something, cause they were able to put the fire out on the buggy, but "it just spread" so dang fast.

After talking to a few more people, I really don't think that the game warden was out there on "official business", it appears they are just good friends.


I also agree w/lswjth, we all must email and make a stand.  Honestly, I really feel this all has to do w/keeping us out of there, period!  And just like Jack had said before, man the glades burn all the time.  Whenever we get our summer storms, lightning and boom, there goes another fire.  Fire is mother natures was of maintaining.  Sure, this fire was an accidental, but what are they going to do next, start giving fines to God for causing lightning....  Come on, we ain't that dumb..... still makes me :banghead.gif :banghead.gif

Saw this article a few minutes ago - (highlighted in green) no one is charging this guy because it was an accident started by A CAMP FIRE!

This poor buggy owner does not deserve this!! I have sent my email in as well hopefully we can all help this guy not have to pay $44,000.00

Anyway heres the article -

St. Petersburg, Florida -- It could be a long, hot and dangerous summer. The governor and Department of Forestry are sending out an urgent message of caution.

Wildfires have already broken out in parts of the state and the situation could get much worse in the coming weeks. Governor Charlie Crist said dry weather conditions are forecast for the foreseeable future, and the danger of additional wildfires will increase dramatically over the next 90 days. [Full Story]

The governor has also placed all aviation and other firefighting resources under the operational authority of the division of forestry while this executive order remains in effect.

One of the largest fires in the state is burning along the border of Volusia and Flagler counties. It started Tuesday and has already scorched 2,200 acres. As of yesterday it was about 40 percent contained. Three hundred and fifty homes were evacuated in Flagler County, but officials lifted that restriction yesterday. No injuries have been reported.

In Manatee County, 21 campers were forced to evacuate Lake Manatee State Park on Thursday. Firefighters say a camper accidentally sparked a 20-acre brush fire. After five hours, the fire was put out and campers were let back in.  
***notice this was state park as well**

State officials are urging everyone to use extreme caution. At the first sign of thick black smoke, you are asked to call 9-1-1 or forestry officials to have someone check it out.

10 News anchors Mario Diaz and Ginger Gadsden interviewed Patrick Mahoney of the Florida Department of Forestry. To see the interview, click on “Video Interview” to the right of this story.


Heres the link...
http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=54176

Heres another clip if you read the above story there was a spot to click on full story. This is what it said...

Bradenton, Florida - Don Morris came prepared to campout with his wife
Linda and dog Moe.

But upon arrival to Lake Manatee State Park, “They're keeping us from checking in.”

And 21 others were forced to check out, including Bud Kinsey.

“At first I smelled some smoke [and] thought nothing of it," Kinsey explains. "Then ... here it comes, and I started jamming everything in there, trying to get my boat hooked up and got out.”

Florida Division of Forestry firefighter Mike Keegan says some campers accidentally started the fire.

SInce the governor declared a State of Emergency, it makes it easier for firefighters to evacuate people and get help from other agencies.

“Any ignition source can start a fire right now. Because of severe conditions, we're concerned about controlling fires,” says Keegan.

Park Manager Kurt Wolbert, is temporarily banning campfires, after such a close call. As for Don Morris, he'll have to toast marshmallows on another day.

“We enjoy the camp fires that's what we really look forward to, but I'm not going to start something we can't finish." Morris then adds, "Play by the rules.”

Firefighters recommend people avoid throwing cigarette butts out car windows and be careful when using barbeques. They say homeowners should also keep vegetation 30 feet from their homes.

Hey lovinit - great point.  Thanks for the information, I will be sure to past that article along.  That's just bull, I mean come one the buggy driver was less at fault than that.  Go figure.....

When a doctor does not properly respond and treat a patient's emergency, he can be sued. Why can't we all sue the DOF, SFWMD and FWC for not being prepared to rapidly and effectively control fires on public lands? And, those fires have burned every year for decades, but, this is the first person fined for it.

It is DOF, SFWMD and FWC not practicing proper fire management out there. When is the last time they had a controlled burn...10 years ago..?