ATV Florida Forum

Hi members,
                 Would like to post a new thread on River Ranch. Just received this email from a friend that hunts with on us occassion.
   ******      " P.S... This past weekend I went to River Ranch, it is really I nice place to hunt and ride 4 wheelers. Some of the peoples camp sights are really messy(they leave all there crap out there) and the roads are all that nasty sugar sand and can be hard to bring campers and trailers out, but other than that it is really nice." ******
I know it isn't everyone, but we will be blamed for everyone elses actions . Holy Land is under VERY HEAVY scrutny from SFWMD (they have the final say out there. FWC only manages the land .Too much boozin, accidents AND trash left from the weekends. Trust me if people continue to keep up their bad habits. Holy Land, Area 3 will be a thing of the past. About Big Cypress, the reason the buggies tow the line is they know if they stray too far, Big Cyprees will also be a thing of the past. They are holding on to a very fine thread out there from the way things used to be.. If the atv's in their quest for a place to ride go over the line to often. Say GOODBYE to the Big C. also. The NPS will not tolerate too much deviation from the rules. The above opinion is from tales i hear at the two consevation clubs i belong to. At one time, RR was in the top five of lands to be purchased . Then it was moved out of the top ten. Don't know where it stands now. I'm considering goin in with 3 other hunters to purchase a plot there strictly to run my hounds in the off season. (Don't know if this will be possible but for the few bucks, it might be worth it. The place really turns me off hearing about some of the stuff that goes on up there and the people that don't realize that the little world they live in is on the horizon to disappear. I don't know what it takes for some to sit up and take notice. Things are not what they used to be. I might be in danger of losing my ability to ride my airboat in this state due to upcoming noise regulations.They claim ther are 15k to 18k ( How many atv's ) airboats registered in the state. Does anybody give a s--t. Once the state makes up it's mind. ALL OVER.  Eminent Domain. No one really owns the land they think they own. I don't know what the answer is but or how to get to the people that think they have  a RIGHT to cause destruction and leave trash all over the place. I wish i did have the answer. Things a drastically changing and the politicians are goin with the vote. Some people refuse to change. I have seen a lot of changes around her , things i don't like but my lone voice is in the minority. Either adapt to the rules or lose everything.
                                       Amen.  

you forget that RR got hit by 3 hurricanes ya it really made a mess. alot of people have not been up to there camps becouse of fixing there houses. the clean up takes time :o

Super Dave:

I looked back at my last post on RR and noticed you made some LOL comments and stated you'd bring my post to the board's attention. I hope you were genuine in your post and not taking my comments lightly. As far as the RR board goes, the end decision by the state on whether or not to take RR will depend on how well they govern themselves over the next few years.

Taking this situation lightly, pounding chests, waving the flag and screaming about so called rights will not do it on this issue. I hope you and the board are serious.

Dave,
      The hurricanes were months ago. PISS poor excuse. I'll bet that these same people have found time to ride their ats's. If y'all take notice, the place (RR) has been packed with people lately.  Course , this is just my opinion. When the state does a fly over all they see is s*** piled all over the place. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand. One of these times when y'all come up for air, y'all goin to see a sign by the state saying "NO TRESPASSING "  Your opinion is like many others, thinking they HAVE A RIGHT. Wake up pal we are on the losing end. A friend of mine is on the Governors Board, i hear a lot of stuff and it ain't good. The county, state, and country are against places like RR. Y'all can do what y'all want but with that kind of attitude, the end is inevitable. The board needs to call a work day and get the s*** cleaned up. No work = no play for the land owners. If people can find the time to play, they "must" find the time to work. I notice y'all take time to notice when some area is closed down and get pissed off . Boy, look what some not a very nice person did. Got the area closed down. The OK Prarie, The Acreage, Jog & Belvedere. Want me to go on ?? Look at Underhill, with all his money, being an original born in the county. Did it help. $2.3 million fine. Y'all see the county backin down ? I don't think so. Unless people that rid wake up, it's going to be a thing of the past. PAY per RIDE only and that's if the county or state don't step in and say no more. I can't believe y'all not seeing what's comin down the road. The light at the end of the tunnel is a train comin!!!!!

Gator is right. I've tried and tried to tell people the very same thing for quite some time now. Every time I do, I get flamed.

Anoriginal,
            Pretty soon y'all won't have to worry about getting flamed. Cause y'all won't have anything to warn people about.

 to make this short and sweet and not let it tern into a pissing match we can go on an on about the same crap, but this is the bottom line. if the state wants it thay will take it we all know that. they have been trying TRYING for yrs (RR) but have they NO. you know reviewing your posts do you guys get payed for all your negativism or are you owners at RR??? if not my opinion is that your NOT what do you care. do you even go to the woods to enjoy it or see what u'all can b--t--h about?? JUST LIKE MY EX-WIFE. if u'all cared about RR then become a owner and stand up go to the board and your district meetings, find out first hand not from a FRIEND what is going on put some positive thoughts in your posts. o and RRPOA is managed better then the 8 FWMA that i've been to and has a clean up committee dealing with the issue. ::)

Hey Dave..

I was at the Ranch last weekend and I don't know when you went last but some changes (I think positive) are taking place.  A new Gate family has moved in.  They are checking id's 100% at least they were the whole weekend.  They are enforcing the guest rules and cleaned up the garbage can area well.  I was talking to one of the gate people and apparently some positive changes are going to start being enforced.

Super Dave:

Fortunate for me, I spend more time in "the woods" that just about anyone I know. As far as RR goes, I'm not calling BS on anything, I'm just stating facts.

The State has yet to make a run at taking RR. So your comment that the state has been trying to take RR for years is false. As far as going to RR board meetings and getting involved, I've tried.

As far as RR being managed better than a FWMA, you're kidding right? Can't remember the last time I saw burned out, crushed and flipped cars sitting next to piles of old roofing materials and refrigerators along an environmentally sensitive wetland that had been permanently destroyed by idiots mud bogging in a FWMA.

The last board meeting I went to was a joke. You had several guys reading off hunting reports from the previous year that sounded like a report for a 60 acre farm and not a huge place like RR. In the audience you had numerous loud, obnoxious and borderline intoxicated individuals, covered with mud and shouting obscenities every time someone said something they disagreed with. When the subject of cleaning up RR both physically and in image came up the place was like a train wreck. The audience was full of people yelling about their "rights" as "property owners" and hollow threats about "I've got my guns and this is my land....I'll shoot someone....gun battles....etc."

One of the most vivid memories that stands out occurred when someone brought up the idea of raising the RR gate fee to cover the cost of clean up. At this point, a group of loud, drunk individuals became livid. One guy stood up, wearing camo overalls coverd in mud, a beer in his hand and a pack of cigarettes in the other and proceeded to tell the board that he, along with numerous others, were on a fixed budget and couldn't afford another $2-$3 to get in the gate. I laughed as I wondered how much he spent on beer and cigarettes each week.

The meeting wore on with idiots yelling at the board about their "rights" to ride buggies and ATVS where ever they wanted in RR and that the property was their property to do with as they pleased. In short, nothing got done. What the crowd failed to notice was the two gentleman dressed nicely sitting in the rear of the crowd taking notes and quietly discussing the meeting amongst themselves. These gentlemen spent the day driving around RR and videotaping, taking pictures and talking to others. I bet you can guess who they were and what they were doing. Great impression given by RR and its "RRPOA".

So, Super Dave, I've been there. Lots and even recently. The place is still a mess. There is no management of any kind to speak of. It is an environmental disaster that may never recover. As far as clean up goes, it is minimal at best. About the only thing that has happened is that the front gate has become more time consuming to get into.

In searching for something positive to say about RR, two things come to mind. First, it keeps a ton of idiots away from the FWMA's, thereby keeping many safe and the FWMA's open; and second, a lot of people (not just the idiots) seem to have a good time while they're at RR.

Sometimes the truth is not pretty.

I have been riding at two FMWA (Florida management Wildlife Area) in South Florida to find the same, burnt up stolen cars, trash of all sorts, etc etc. One, Superdave prolly knows about, as its in his area. And for thinking that its the people who ride in the area that are dumping the trash is completly ridiculous. 90% of the trash found is from people that dont ride, looking for a secluded are that no one will see them dumping their trash at. As far as I know, no one I ride with would want to block trails that they ride with trash and stolen cars.It seems you are against anyone riding in Florida, with the exception of yourself.

TRX -

Your post makes it clear that you are missing the point.

First, If I was totally against riding in Florida, why would I bother? My posts are all designed to inform everyone of what I know. I (for better or worse) happen to be in a position that allows me access to lots of information on the subject of public lands and government interest in private lands. I try to pass this information along so that more people can help preserve a sport we enjoy. What you choose to do with the info is up to you.

Second, the issue isn't "who is dumping the trash," it's the fact it is dumped that matters. Do you think that the "powers that be" care who put the garbage out or who did the most doughnuts in the saw grass? Image and environmental improvement comes from fixing not just your own mess, but the mess of others as well.

Finally, regarding FWMA's and their conditions, some do have problems. However, none as catastrophic as RR. Pointing the finger at me and insinuating that I am "anti-rider" is ridiculous. Your concern should be focused on what you can do to save places to ride. Who cares who makes the mess or caused the original problem?  I don't. What I do care about is how we can make things right.

the landowners need to stay involved the gate has forms to sign to protect your land as an owner!! "or call your board member"if u own land u should know who that is! as far as clean up we use to have several rides for clean ups we pulled   trailer behind buggy  and rode off to deferent areas on atvs and picked trash up. maybe we could  get somepeople together and do the same! the state has taken land from us before ,anybody been to "tic island" lately? there was alot of land taken by state . we must stand up as owners and clean up behind ourselves and the people we bring there! if you bring guests u r responsible for them. as far as burnt cars and trailers  maybe we can call a scrap yard or something like that and haul it there! we must protect the land or it will be gone!!  the state seemes to be able to do what they want! as far as the dues being raised for clean up this is great idea if they dont want to pay, then they must be the people that just dont care! i mean come on who would not want this to be cleaned up! respect the land i was "raised"up out there and now take my kids there i sure would hate to loose it!  my .02

Do you want to know why you get flamed. Because almost everything you have to say on this site has negitivity towards ATV riders. All you posts are well put but they all point fingers at us like we here on this site are the ones that are ruining it for everyone. Take a look around and read some other post more and you will see that we know that there are problems with Idiots and ppl dumping trash all over and somthing needs to be done before we loose all our riding spots. You point you finger at everyone else like there the bad guys **Thats why you get flamed**    

1fast -

Please, point out one place where I've pointed fingers at ATV riders in general or in specific. Excluding instances of simple factual and truthful observation. You can't do it.

My posts are not negative, just factual. If the facts are negative, I can't help it.

Ok so if you dont want to get flamed after every post then maybe try posting something other than "negative facts" all the time. No affence but try a  :) once an a while... :-/    

1fast -

I appreciate where you're coming from and don't take this the wrong way, but being flamed does not bother me. I say this because if being flamed is what it takes to get the word out, I'll do it.

I can't sugar coat things that are wrong. People need to be informed and take action. I'm glad to see people like you care.

i agree river ranch is very dirtied up. people leave trucks and buggies and junk campers, muchless the amount of just junk and garbage out there. i buought a place and went maybe three or four times, just isn't good dnough for atv's IMO. too many buggies with no lights and no brakes and things of that sort. :(

I have a camp,but dont spend much time there but I may sure my camp is clean when I leave. I have 28s on the my quad and when you see the wet lands sign that means STAY OUT . I couldnt make it to the meeting but I wish I would have now.

Anoriginal> Do you ride ? You do not post what you ride or where you are from. I agree with what you are saying 100 %. I do get a negative feeling from your posts and that is expected from the facts that you bring to our attention. I do wonder if you go out to these areas and haul away the cars, buggies and garbage that you see ? If not than what do you want all of us to do ? I always bring a garbage bag with me when I ride and bring my tarsh back with me. I can not see me towing a burnt car out of the woods and bringing it home with me to get rid of it. Please let us know what projects that you have in place and I bet that we would be willing to help you.

the truth is FL is making $$$$$ off us by stealing the money from the title FEE taxes every time you buy a ATV. the FWC is not getting any of the $$$$.FWC use to get $10.00 a yr for buggies /atv  sticker fee. now they get 0 .  look for the FWC.SFWD to band ATV use in the mangent area SOON. the ATV dealers need to step up! NO PLACE RIDE= NO NEED TO BUY!!!!! >:(  

I ride. That's all that is important.

As far as projects to clean up, etc., take your pick. Better yet, start your own. There is no better way to leave a good impression than to organize and implement a ride/meeting/get together/picnic.... focused on bettering the environment you ride in.

Examples:

1. A clean up day. People come out ride around, haul stuff out, pick up trash, pay dump trucks and tractors to be there to load and haul off crap. Give prizes to the kids hauling out the most stuff. Sounds corny, but I've seen it work.

2. Start a designated trails system. I know this one will be met with huge resistance in RR. However, like it or not it is becoming a necessary item for proper management. It has to be started somewhere. If you can't get them to listen, run and get on the board yourself.

3. Designate large areas as ORV free and walk in only. I know this sounds like you're giving up riding area, but by doing so, you are showing the State and the others who want to shut you down that you really care. You care enough to set aside sensitive lands to protect and preserve them. Big bonus points if you pull this off.


If anyone gets a negative feeling from my posts, GOOD! You should get a negative feeling. I know I do as I write them. But, it is always the cold facts that come back to bite you. I just post what I know. I offer suggestions, share my experiences and hope we can all pull together.

I agree with you in some areas, and others I do not. The only reason I replied in the sense of negativity is that it seemed that you were putting the blame from the trash floating around River Ranch on the ATV riders. Yes, I do agree that no matter who dumped it, it was wrong, and WE, not only put the blame on whoever dumped it, but show responsibility and commitment and clean it up. And  Gator, yes, although the hurricane was three months ago, maybe you should take a look at Punta Gorda, and see how destroyed it still looks, You cannot clean up a large area in three months, especially considering the amount of damage done and how large the area damaged was. To me, you have a piss poor excuse, especially to just sit down and complain about the issues. Maybe your home was lucky, and had a few shingles ripped off, while others are still dealing with cleanup and money issues. Not meaning to rant, but things are awfully negative around here lately, It seems that this is becoming a news broadcast, feeding off the negative. Maybe, instead of complaining how dirty these areas are, you should start a cleanup topic in open discussion, ask your Fellow atvers for a favor, and help save our riding areas. It has been done once before in North Port, it canbe done again and again in other areas as well.

I know Im hosting a clean up at 5a and have not gotten any reponse except from my club members

5A overall is in pretty good shape luckily

there spots that are not we will be there on feb 12 if you would like to join us.

Where is this place located?

Anoriginal> Ok...You say you ride !! Most riders post what they ride because they want others to see what they are riding. They also want to meet other riders etc. You seem to only want to complain. You have great points and I agree with most. I do not see you doing anything about what you are saying. I asked you to list somethings that you do and you said do it youreslf. Well I do !!! I am a volunteer for a 60 mile trail in Michigan where I live in the summer months and I am a seasonal riding park owner. I just would like to see more action from you than talk. My personal oppinion is that you are not here to ride or meet people. Are you going to the Rodman Ride or any rides ? Well I have said all that I need too. I believe that this site and areas like RR need to do more to clean up our image/areas of riding. If this is your point than it is well taken.

Custom-

If you search my posts, I've told everyone what and where I ride. Currently, I am considering switching to a Grizzly. However, I like the Kawasaki 750 too. Most of my riding is done on private property. However, I spend time in the Big Cypress as well. I've spent more time than I can remember at croom and hernando hill climbing. I've sand dragged in Bithlo, Zellwood and numerous other small tracks that are now history around the state.

I spend a great deal of time on four different boards dealing with Florida's natural resources. I'm currently the president of two of the organizations for which I am a board member. I hesitate to name them because I appear here in a personal capacity and not on behalf of these organizations. I am heavily involved with Florida's Fish and Game and spend a great deal of time, money and effort on wildlife habitat issues.

I cannot begin to tell you the number of projects I've dealt with over the years. And I mean that honestly. Anything from offshore artificial reef work to building duck boxes for okeechobee. I've done game counts for the state on properties all over the state, both private and public. In the past, I've helped identify environmentally sensitive lands for purchase and/or intervention by the state. I've spent a lot of time over the last few years drafting addendums to environmental plans for private and public property on the county level. My wife says that if I get on one more board or volunteer for one more project she's going to kill me.

When I'm not working or volunteering, I spend my time fishing, hunting and enjoying the outdoors. I've have other hobbies, but those are not important. As far as the Rodman ride, no, I'm not going. Group rides really are not my thing. I have a few friends who ride with me from time to time and that's fine with me. I'm glad everyone else is going to Rodman and I am aure everyone will have a great time.

Custom, I hope this answers your concerns. As far as complaining goes, you're missing the point by a mile. As I've said before, all you have to do is read my posts with an open mind. If you do, you'll see that I am clearly not complaining. I'm just pointing out the facts.

Anoriginal,
       After sitting here reading all your posts and everyone elses basically everyone has a good point. Your mainly focusing on one area here RR. I've been a member at RR with my father for 10yrs. The first couple years it wasn't our cup of tea. With all the buggies driving around in the hunting area and how many members were there. Plus at that time i was learning to hunt and my dad didn't want me in that evironment cause i was bow hunting and not gun. Well over that 10yr span I did notice trash building up but it wasn't until a few years ago it got bad. It got bad due to storms and natural fires. So no one had any place to dump this trash but were you see the trash now on the side of the road about a mile or so into camp there was 3 camps right there damaged and that basically started the pile. So now everyone has dumped there trash there and its caused a big mess. Such a big mess that theres no place to bring them campers up front and no one will pay to have it removed. Why? Because they do still belong to those people that haven't been there for years that RR probably doesn't have there new phone numbers or address. Thats the main reason why that hasn't been moved and the other reason for the additional trash being built up there is cause the new members coming in think thats a trash drop off. You think i like driving past that in order to take family and friends out for a days ride let alone camp near it. My camp is across the street right before it so i see it everytime i hit the sugar sand road. Theres a couple of us members on this board that would love to see RR clean up but we can't make a difference even though you might think we can. We can try but it might not help and as we clean up one weekend the next weekend someone could be dropping more in that spot. Now for the garbage up front by the dumpsters were its suppose to be. Theres 5 dumpsters. On a normal week not a hunting week or season those 5 dumpsters don't get full so those don't get empty as quick. But at least most of the trash is being put in the right spot. You don't see trash bags in the other pile were the 3 trailers, numerous BBQs, mattress springs, and tires are. Its the people that don't care, that don't go to meetings or know whats new going on that do the dumping of the big trash that no one can really get to help. But yes RR should organize a clean up day to make RR a little bit cleaner in order to keep it what it once was. If RR don't do it then we who go there and try to comprimise with RR to organize such a day. I must say they do make special events every now and then so maybe we should talk to them and say its getting outta hand and try to come up with something.
Anoriginal: I'm not pointing fingers at you I'm just stating my facts that i know of.

02Yamaha-

I didn't think you were pointing fingers at me at all; so, no offense taken.

As far as focusing on RR, this is a RR thread.

Regarding the abandoned trailers, trash, etc. The county has ordinances that can be manipulated to allow you to remove the junk. All it takes is a little effort by the members/owners/whatever. As far as not being able to do something. That's not true. You can if you actually put some real effort into it. Last I checked, with the exception of only a few (and i mean a few) "property owners", nobody's camp was actually located on their own property. Therefore, if the junk is located in the general camp area, why can't you remove it? Abandoned property is abandoned property. Florida's Statutes has numerous sections devoted to the same. E-F-F-O-R-T.

You have to consider the irony of RR. You can bet the state and numerous private agencies have. You have only so many members who each own a realtively small parcel of land "somewhere" in RR. In exchange, you get to ride all over RR on property that does not belong to you and does not belong to the RRPOA. The fact of the matter is, the way RR is set up, you basically have a small group of people dictating how property (that does not belong to them) is utilized. I'm not flaming RR here. That's just the reality of whats going on.

Too many people take the position that they'd "like to help or do something but can't." I hear it all the time. If you have dumpsters in place, why do you think they are not being used? Location maybe? I can't answer this one for you. Perhaps asking those who use RR on a regular basis might help?

Creativity, effort and preserverence are necessities when dealing with these issues. Like it or not, unless the folks who "want to help or do something but can't" make an effort, RR will be lost in the long run.

my camp was a old burn out camp before I got it. now theres a motor home and no trash around my area. But if we dont take time and get the people together were gonna end up loosing it and beyond a doubt that is the best place to ride in my eyes. I dont make it down there that often due to owning a business but I still take time help when I can.

February 19th at 12:00 at gate 1 is the general meeting to elect the officers of the board so lets make a difference people and the district meetings are:
east district meeting sat. Jan 29th gate 1 1:00pm
west sat.Jan 22nd gate 1 12:30pm
southwest B sat. Feb.5th 1:00pm thatcher park
southwest A sun. Feb.13th 2:00pm Labelle womens club

I got to river ranch once a month if not more if i have time. My dad on the other hand goes up at least 2 to 3 weekends a month. As far as people putting camps on property thats not theres when they purchase the land there told where it is.If its on there piece or not its still there camp and therefore those burnt down or damaged trailers won't be removed by anyone else but the owner. In order to do any help you gotta have more then one person or else there won't be any change. Like i said things can get done if RR has a clean up day or a group of us members get together with RR and make one.

okay i got my own opinion there

lets clean up river ranch...have the board make a day where you have to pick up your share of trash and get a ticket from it or what not before u ride everywhere. second. the state can go kiss my @ss (no offense to anyone) but their the ones who ruint most of the wetlands in the first place. once summer comes it will be flooded to hell and the wet lands will grow back. no worries. to disturb it a little actually does more good. Never give into the government. fight those tyrants till we die i say! I would like to see them try to take river ranch, id be the first to stop them in arms. don't take that a bad way but there is only so much of a tyrant you can take till you defend what is yours.

AnOriginal-

How about this... an anti-flame!

Boys and girls....  I have spent many ears as an ATV and 2-wheeled rider. In my younger years I rode.. whereever.

Now that I am a responsible adult (mostly) I have come to realize that management is the key to keeping public or private areas open.

Some states such as MD, GA, ME have riding areas in them that area managed by the state and maintained by local clubs. And it works!

Areas like River Ranch, although private, need management too. Clean-ups, designated trails, protected wetlands and such. RRPOA, of which I am a member, Perhaps should appoint a RR-DEP liason to communicate with DEP and the state on topics such as these. See what we could do as a POA to make the state LIKE us and see that we are trying to "make thing right". RRPOA make millions of dollars a year through members and guests. Maybe its time to hire someone to deal directly with the state. Maybe they already have someone and I don't know.

Long story short... AnOriginal, in my opinion, is right!

I rode River Ranch for the first time this weekend.

The place is huge and for the most part, WHOOP FREE!

Don't get me wrong, I love Croom and Ocala National (Big Scrub, and Delancy) but River Ranch was, in my humble opinion, far better.

Once you get past the first mile or so of burnt out and littered campsites, the riding is AWESOME!

I highly recommend it.  30,000 acres plus, of open riding without all the whoops of Ocala and Croom.

River Ranch is ideal for utility quads as it has flat hardpacked trails.

I ride a 450R which sucks up the whoops of Croom and Ocala, and I couldn't imagine riding a utility quad at either of those places.

But River Ranch is perfect for flat out smooth riding.

Give it a shot if you haven't already.