ATV Florida Forum

Perhaps PBSO or someone else can respond to this dilemma.

I have a friend that owns 10 acres of property in Jupiter. He has made a small track through his property and the place is really cool..

Recently, neighbors started calling the police because the noise from riding was making their Saturday and Sunday afternoons less than perfect. After several complaints, the Jupiter Police responded and threatened to ticket the owner for disturbing the peace...Obviously the owner felt that since the property was "private", the police had absolutely no jurisdiction by coming on to his property.

Well, people contined to ride after the police left the scene and they returned again and ticketed the owner. This was at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon...This will go before a judge in Jupiter....Landmark case or what??? Ha! HA!

Let me add that there were supervising adults, no alcohol, no fires or destruction..Just families having fun with their kids. There were 6 people riding...

Do police have jurisdiction to come to your house and tell you to lower your radio too??

tvman    

That's BS!!!!!!!!!!! I can't see how they could do that during the day. People are out of control.

cops have come to my house before and given me warning, but they say its out of their jurisdiction to give me a ticket  because im legally riding on my own property and they said as long as i ride it durin the day then they have no problem with it, but they usually come out to tell me when they have been called and just say they cant really do anything, but they have said the guy has said the thing about me disturbing the peace, but havnt heard anything about that recently, they usually just come out and say ive been complained about, they have come out about 10-12 times so far :-/ and i only ride at like 1/4 throttle now to try to compromise with the old fart

i think it is wrong for some old fart or some old bag to complain about you riding on your property and complain about the peace.the bike are not made to be super quit.if they dont like the noise then they should leave the area.

Hey Tvman
Put a fence around your property and get yourself some
mean pit bull's put signs around the fence on your property
that say private property no policy beyond this fence
if your coming to tell me to stop riding forget it go and tell
every one thats cuting grass or making noise to stop,  its disturbing my peace.this is the USA were is my freedom  >:( >:(

That is bullchit! But it's ok for some senior citizen to fire up his lawnmover and cut the grass at 7am on a weekend. Nobody seems to complain about that. Noise is noise. The old farts in St.pete were complaining a few years back when the St. Pete Grand Prix comes to town. Loud F1 cars. Whaaa, they don't like they should move.  -Mark

Tell your friend to measure how many decibles the quads are putting out then fire up a lawnmover and show the comparison to the judge. There is not that much of a difference.  Or better yet give the me address of those neighbors and I'll swing by with my mustang with open headers and rev it up to 7000rpms at 4 a.m.   ;D   -Mark

Maybe the judge will throw it out.. ???

Was the ticket for violation of a noise ordinance, or for some type of moving (traffic) violation?  Im guessing it was for noise.  Law enforcement can not enforce traffic statutes on private property or gated communities unless there is an agreement with the owners of the property to do so.  

On the other hand, depending on how the noise ordinance is worded, they CAN act on that if it is an unreasonable amount of noise (which we all know that old farts think anything is unreasonable).  Usually, the ordinances cover night time hours, or parties with Live DJ's , or bands that will emit loud music.  

I dont work down south where you guys are, so what I am telling you is how it is up here.  Hope this helps. -Andy

Thanks for the replies.

I'm going to tell my buddy to measure the noise decibels of a lawn mower and the bikes ans use that comparison.

My own personal opinion of this is that the Court cannot act on this and must throw the case out..The property is zoned agricultural and it's okay if you put 100 cows out there making noise and stinking up the air, but a few bikes gets the old farts all bent outta shape..

I like the pitbull thing too...His yard is fenced and gated, so that sign thing might get the police to think twice before driving in again... Only kidding!!!

I'd like to see the legal opinion if the owner posts the land with "No Tresspassing" signs.. Does the law have the right to enter?? Obviously if there was a crime being committed, and they were called, they would have a reason the enter, but for a noise complaint in the middle of the afternoon?  

Some people just have nothing better to do than complain and make noise.. What do they want our kids to do...go rob their house or something. This is just honest fun and nobody was bothering anyone....

Stay tuned for the details....Nice responses so far.

tvman

WOW! Ed That Sucks  :o  
How loud is a gas powered chain saw or a gas powered weed eater?  My neighbor cranks up his gas powered pressure washer to clean EVERYTHING!  >:(  But that's OK....right?

FYI....


 ;)

if its during the day, i don't think there is a noise ordinance problem.  You can be pretty much as loud as you want until whatever time the city enforces noise levels until.

What about when we have heavy duty construction equipment on private property? Or pressure cleaners (as mentioned), or lawnmowers, jackhammers, or anything like that?

Tickets BS...goto court and WIN.  Easy as pie.

First step is to see what statute they have you violating, (see statute number on your ticket).

The 2nd District Court of Appeals in Florida has determined that legal wording of certain "noise ordinances" in Florida are too subjective and vague, and can not be legally enforced without violating certain civil rights.

If your statute is for "noise", you may consider doing the following...

1) Look the violation up by statute number and look for any precedent setting cases in your area.

2) Hire a lawyer to research this for you, or if that's not affordable, you may consider making a minimum donation to the ACLU, and once you become a member, they provide free assistance in legal matters that they deem to be in violation of your civil liberties.


If the law enforcement officials didn't use any "decibel measuring" instruments to give you an exact number of decibels you achieved, the arguement of "subjectiveness" may apply. What's to say that a roofing contractor, or a landscaper, is any different from a recreational ATV rider with regards to excessive noise.


Typically noise ordinances are written with specific hours in the wording of the ordinances. If I remember correctly it's 10pm to 8am here in Lakeland, FL.

Good Luck

In my experience, some people get annoyed when they see others having more fun than they are. Thus, an ATV is more annoying to them than a lawnmower or chainsaw at the same noise level. I can lend you a dB meter if you need one to help your case.  

This is only one side of the story though.  I'm not an old fart, but if every weekend I had to listen to quads running around all day I'd be pissed too.  There should be some mutual respect between neighbors.  It may not be illegal, but it's pretty rude IMO.

dude thats messed up,,,i would in return call the police on them when they start there lawnmower......what the hell is this country coming to,,,your nieghbors are probally raft riders who have no business being here anyway.......i feel for you man...now i'm pissed off!!!!!!!!!!

What makes you think police have no juristiction to enforce laws on private property. Can you not get a speed ing ticket in the mall parking lot, that is private property.

I am not saying I would not be upset too, but the cop asked them to stop and when he left everyone started up again. What did you expect was going to happen???

And if you are playing your stereo so loud that i tdisurbs your neighbors, they can ask you to turn it down.

Why don't they go down and confront the neighbors directly and find when would be a time that would be good for both of the concerned parties.

It seems lie their must be a prior history between these folks.

then ask the cop when would be a good time to ride on my private property,maybe you need to find a cop that likes to ride and invite him over for his kids to ride,,that would solve the problem,,maybe a sgt.or the captain!!

2raptors you need tp relax, but it's ok when your neighbor has two figgin' roosters that call all the time and a horse that stinks and makes noise and creates tons of flies. That's ok????? But it's part of living in these areas, you agree? He likes to ride, it's not like your living on a zero lot line.

 A pair of ear plugs or walkmen can help stop the problem you are having. Try talking to the old farts.tell those old farts to get a life. This is what I think of them  [smiley=Clown.gif] [smiley=Clown.gif] [smiley=Clown.gif] [smiley=Clown.gif]
nothing but a bunch of clown. I would ride my atv before the cops get to where your riding. Then put your atv away wait until the cops are gone then ride out again. after a couple of times they will not come back [smiley=Cool.gif]

if the neighbor aint got the balls to come and talk to you directly and work out a compromise before they call the cops I would not even bother talking to them. some people need to get a life. they move out to the country and still think they live in the city. they sit in there house all day becuase they have no life and are just jealous that someone living around them is having fun and they are not. THere are also folks that live to stir trouble for others.

TEll your buddy to invite everyone from this site for an atv rodeo one day. That would be cool.  

Hey Don that's pretty funny.

Maybe start playing SlipKnot or Pantera albums outside your house all f-in day. Or maybe the sounds of rabbits being slaughtered! The neighbors might not think the atvs sound that bad after all.    

I live in Jupiter farms and have had PBSO at my house before because of riding atv's. I was cutting down trees and dragging them to the road with the 4-wheelers but according to PBSO their is alway's a noise ordinance in effect but playing loud music and having a keg party is different than "engine noise". If you have a live band plaing in your frony yard then yes you can get a noise ordinance ticket, But if it is engine noise which technically is noise you cannot control then it is legal. They told me as long as i am on MY property i can ride my 4-wheeler as long as i want. (Granted they did not have any exhaust mods either ::)). dont let them see tire tracks on the dirt road in front of your house though!! even just turning around.

you said they were Jupiter cops though right? if he is inside of the town of jupiter's city limits then all bets might be off.

City has many more noise reg's than county does.

hope this helps  

I would check and see if there is a noise ordinance in your area. It may be that you can even get a permit for the weekend and still ride if they do. I live in the city and they have a noise ordinance at night but you can go to the city hall and purchase a party permit and play your music all night long if you want to. Imagine that. I would check the statute and ordinances to see how they are worded and you may find out that its to your advantage and you may be able to make all the noise you want, when you want. Plus, if its a noise ordinance then I would think that they must have a decibel limit and without checking the decibels, they may not can enforce the ordinance. My two cents.

No disrespect to your local law enforcemen, but I wouldn't ask them for accurate advice on this issue.

You need to get that statute number from your citation and check it yourself or have legal counsel find a way to get around it.

Cops don't always tell the truth when it comes to certain matters, and they are not compelled by the law to do so either. Contrary to popular belief, cops are entitled to lie believe it or not, when they are  in "investigative mode"...you can thank your legal system for that, all the way upto and including the Supreme Court.


(However if YOU lie to the police, that's against the law..how messed up is that?)

That is messed up Vegas.  Wait until someone steals your ATV (or anything for that matter), and Im sure the first thing you will do is call the police.  Then you will probably complain about how they do nothing.  Then after that, when the police set up a sting operation to retrieve your ATV, they will have to "lie" to the bad guy that stole it (oh no!).  "Mr Bad Guy, can you please come meet us so we can retrieve Vegas' stolen ATV?  We know you have it and he wants it back."  How often do you think that would work?  Criminals lie, cheat and steal.  Therefore the police are forced to make it an even playing field.  You can also "thank our legal system" for criminals having so many rights, and them getting away so easily.

Until anyone walks in the shoes of  law enforcement officer, they have no right to make judgments.  

Honda rider.how do you know they were old,and if they dont like the noise they should leave,what if they were there first........come on honda........I ride too,but thats not the answer

That's so messed up!!! i was thinking about buying 10-15 acres just for riding quads and build a home in the next few years. so now you tell me i can't ride on my property.

Like Dead mullet stated, cities have stricter ordinances. I would visit the Jupiter Police Dept. and request a copy of the ordinance you were charged with so you can fully understand the charge. You may also request a supervisor to meet with you and discuss the issue. Ultimately, if a court date was issued, present your case to the court and let the judge resolve the issue.

Woah Andy!  Ease up on the caffeine, bro. I'm merely stating facts.

I'm suggesting that asking the people who are issuing the summons may not be the best option, as they would not be the most "objective" of sources to consult.

As far as your hypotheticals, with ATV's being stolen, and me calling the police...get real bro, you have no idea what I would do or how I would act.

Stick with the topic.

Peace out.

VICTORY IS SWEET!!!!

Just a note to thank everyone for giving constructive anbd supportive advice on this thread..

Yesterday my buddy met with a Jupiter Police Leiutenant and discussed the situation rearding the summons. Yes, Jupiter does have a noise ordinance, but since the citation was made during the middle of the day, the general consensus is that it will not hold in Court.

Based on the consultation with the attorney, the ticket will be "thrown out". It appears that the officer issuing the citation was just trying push his weight a bit. AS for the neighbors, they have vowed to call the police until the situation is eliminated....According to the attorney, they will need a petition if they can ever hope to make any progress.

My friend has tried to discuss this with them, but they just want their peace and quiet. He's even asked the neighbors to call him when they are going to be out and he will ride then...These people are in their 70's and have been in Jupiter for 30 years....They just hate kids...

Anyway..it appears to be a victory for the ATV riding public..

tvman

Chalk one up for the ATV crowd!

Congrats on the good news.

Vegas, what do you mean stick to the topic?  Youre the one who flew off on the tangent about cops being able to lie.  

And when/if your ATV does get stolen, why dont you handle it yourself?  That will save the taxpayers some money......

Hey PBSO, this is worse than working the 'hood.  There are a ton of cop haters in here.  

Andy,

I just stated a fact, that the cops may not be telling the entire truth, when trying to get people to comply with their desires. I merely advised that legal counsel or further research with regards to local statutes, would be appropriate.

I never said anything about hating cops.

You're awfully defensive, buddy.

And if you refer to the post where the original poster spoke of the resolution, you'll in fact see that he stated it was a case of a cop attempting to "throw his weight around".

I just think it's important for people to know that just because a cop says something with regards to the law, it doesn't make it so.  

I take it your in some form of law enforcement. If you want to give me your address I'll send you a dozen doughnuts as a peace offering (bad joke).

Anyway, I'm glad the issue was resolved.

Peace out

Bad Cops Get No Doughnuts!

P.S.

You keep bringing up the theft of my ATV.

Do you know something you're not telling me?


Peace out Andy

Hey guys, there was a similar situation a few weeks ago printed on the front page of the Ocala Star Banner newspaper. A family in Belleview has an atv track on their 5 acres for the kids to ride then a New York family moves into their newly built home next door and complains about the kids riding and all the dust its creating and ruining their property value. They have called law enforcement several times telling them that they feel they are a prisoner in their own home because of the riding next door. These people have lived here in the woods for the last 15 years. The newspaper states that Marion county officials cannot enforce riding of atvs on private property so they are instead going to create a noise ordinance to deal with loud atvs and dirt bike riding on private property. Too many complaints of these bikes being a nuisance. My wife is a waitress and waits on one of the county code enforcement officials and he told her that they are indeed working on this issue.
A week after hearing this I decided to bring in the heavy equipment and start digging some pits. My back yard now looks like a mining quarry. I was thinking that if Marion county decided to have a say so about atv tracks then I would be grandfathered in. To many polititians and their bullcrap have made us think about moving to north Florida far away from anyone.

Before running out and checking out the decibles of noise that things are creating I'd agree w/ everyone else to check the statute.  If there is an ordinance and you have a decible level measured you could be burying yourself.

I know in Sarasota the noise ordinance is in effect from 10pm till some time in the am.  I also know that the north port police talk about us being above the noise level.  They also have nothing to measure it.

Know the statute and law.  If they want to enforce it if there is one in place let them measure it.  Don't do the work for them.  Most of the time they have nothing to measure it with and can therefore do nothing.  Also, by the same token if they do measure it then I would consider asking them to measure the other gas powered tools that were listed in this thread.

Best bet is to meet w/ the people and try to resolve a compromise before ww3 starts.  It's hard for people to get upset with you if they see you as a polite and kind person.  Key is that they have to see you as a person, not just and obnoxious noise maker.

Th real test comes this weekend when they go back out here riding on the property...

They have a copy of the noise ordinanance statute on hand..I guess they will force the police to get a reading if they want to issue another citation... However, I feel the police LT. has had a chat with the officer involved...

Jupiter is still a small enough town that politics goes a long way..

tvman

Thanks for the donut offer, Vegas.  If we ever hook up for a ride, make sure you bring them fresh!  

If the ordinance has a certain time frame and you are not in it, then they do not have a foot to stand on. Keep riding and take them to court. Then call your neighbor and let them know that if they call the police again, you will start earlier and end as late as possible.

Welcome to politics 101!! I am assuming that either one of two things are involved. 1). The neighbors that complained have more money than that of your buddy that got the ticket or 2). The neightbor that complained owns the Doughnut shop that the officers attend regularily.

i think you should have a neighborhood party,get to know your neighbors,leave the quads in the garage,let people get to know you and your family for who you really are,not that you just get out the toys and make lots of noise..this way when the old farts go around the neighbor hood trying to get a partion signed,your neighbors will remember the family that had a great party and were very friendly and nice people and not sign the petion....anotherwards butter up your neighbors,make them think your way kool....