ATV Florida Forum

I am getting the opportunity to talk with a land owner with 1000 acres that might possibly let us use it for a riding area . He uses it for ag purposes and is open to the possibility . We will have to pay but anything is better than nothing . It is not yet a for shure , but it is in the works . I am hoping to give him an aggressiv trail system with a drag and special 4x4 area while to being able to use some of the land for agriculture .As I said before it is just in the begining . For everyone that wants the Dealers to step up , I'm trying . Keep your fingers crossed . I will keep you informed . I am using Durahmtown as the example

If I needed people to help me sweep his entire property " more than 1000 acres" for exotic plants would some of you in the South FL area be willing to give  some time for the cause?

where abouts and when. with me working 2 jobs its hard for time off but if i have the time when you want to do it then sure. I need to ride.

I would gladly help and could bring a few friends.  Just let me know.
Steve

It is still in the beginning .Cant disclose where and don't quite know when , but it is being discussed .

ILL HELP

count me in JD just tell what to look for.

I'm glad people are willing to help . It is in the beginnings so it will take some time . we will see how it goes .

I'll be there.

We can help too   :D

I just want everyone to know it isstill in the early stages but I am trying to build up a little support to show The landowner just how bad this area is needed . I have alot of ideas that he likes , but it never hurts to have more .

JD: let us know. I have a big crew that's willing and able to do what is needed to better our riding areas in S.Florida

Cool  ,When and if it works out , keep your fingers crossed .

count me in.  

Just got off the phone , They like my ideas . " I have 2 well known biologists backing me up . We will meet on Feb 2nd . I will let you know that the area is south of FT. Pierce . I hope it all works out .

Just an IDEA: if you can crunch some numbers and give an idea of what will be needed ($$$) then I can start to prepare my crew. Perhaps a yearly fee or monthly. Maybe a lease or something. I also have a lawyer friend if you need some legal advice.

After the meeting I will have a little more info . If we could move this thread to places to ride I would like peoples opinion or ideas . It would help . As an ATV enthusiast I have a good idea but tell me what you would like .

you probably thought of this already, but here it is anyway:

One way trails. ;)
Also, dirt roads cutting through the trails to easily access the main area in the event a bike has mechanical problems while on the trails and needs to be towed back. ;)



I will be posting ideas as I get them from my crew.

That is what we want . This is what I have . A one way sport bike trail around the perimiter of the property with table tops , whoops and alot of turns that will kinda double back to stretch out overall distance . Along inside of the sport will be a 4x4 area with some mud but alot of challenges "not just mud "  And a 300 ft drag with 200 ft shutdown . The key is we have to set it up to maintain the integrity of the agricultural land in the center of the property . I know it will not be free like the forests , but we can make it fun and make changes on a quarterly basis .Also I am suggesting the use of flags . Do ya'll feel I am on the right track ? If not tell me it wont hurt my feelings " that much " [smiley=Cry.gif]

I think, you are right on brother. Sounding very good and like  something all ATV enthusiasts can enjoy. What would you think about those new 2 wheel things they call dirt bikes? ::)

 If the bikes dont mid tabletops instead of doubles it is cool with me . I started on 2 wheels . We just have to have flags , that will help out the bikes .

I think you are right on with the plans.  I'm a utility quad guy myself, so I may be making an ignorant statement, but wouldn't dirtbikes really tear up the track and do much more damage than the sport quads? If so, I would probably not want them there.....but then again, I wouldn't be riding on that track.  The one way idea is awesome.

does anybody currently belong to other private riding clubs?  What do they charge and what does that cover?  

I guess no DIRT BIKES. I actually started out on 3 then went to 2 (RM 125 and YZ 250) but I think they would indead tear the track up big time.

Both machines will tear it up pretty good , we will have alot of what if's to cover but it would be unfair not to allow bikes because they need a place to ride also . We will  have a volunteer system for clean up days . Maybe the volunteers will get their own special day of riding , that could possibly help the bikers out if they step up . Anything people do to help will be rewarded .

that is an awesome idea... i really HOPE there is a monthly/yearly fee - it helps keep out some of the idiots that get the places shut down for doing stupid stuff.



please keep us update! we will be willing to help.

Yeah I guess you are right. With the right maintenance plan we should be fine. As well, the bikes will also bring income needed for maintenence. Good idea with the clean up day. GOOD STUFF!!

Our imagination , cooperation , communication is the key to our success.

JD. How far (aprox) will this be from Miami??

Last but not least i think you or whoever is in charge of this riding area needs to appoint a few people i would like the job to police the area for riff raff that can close a place down quicker than anything     ....DRINKING THEN RIDING      NO HELMETS     TEARING UP WITH YOUNGUNS ON BIKE YOU NAME IT     ....TRY TO KEEP THE RANGER SYSTEM LIKE CROOM....ECT......BY THE WAY MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS   WOULD BE VEEERRRY INTERESTED IN THIS AREA AND WILL HELP IN ANY WAY...GEORGE...BY THE WAY WILL YOU HAVE AN AREA FOR MY TOYHAULER...LOL      J/K

I say no drinking at all. Don't get me wrong, I love dem booze but for insurance purposes and safety reasons drinking should not be allowed. And HELMETS, come on. That should be a given. Anyone seen riding the trail without a helmet gets thrown out. That is just stupid

Probably no Barley Pop . It will be up to the owner . If it is set up right people wont want to set around and drink . Its location will be good for people from Miami  close to turnpike  . DOT helmets will be mandatory ..

NICE! Plus alcohol can only really create problems. Unless maybe drinking after hours for those who camp there. WOW: there is an idea: A mini camp ground site for the outertowners.

There may come a day that I will ask people to show up before it all starts . I will have to show him what kind of turnout we can get .  It will be very important for people to show up on that day , even if we cant ride .

Say the word. You can count on me plus 20 (at least)

I like the way you think JD. Good ideas all around. What are you a lawyer, doctor, MBA???? Damn man, good chit!!!

I sell ATV's . But I have spent the last 10 years in the wetlands of Florida . I'm basically just another frustrated 4 wheeler rider .Now that I am in this business I am starting to make connection , and I will take full advantage of them if it will give us more places to play .

Cool man. I just may contact you when I upgrade to the TRX 450...

I feel all dealers should be doing the same . Very dissapointing .

I may be able to help in recruiting some dealers

we can probably do that.

I hope so , no turnout on that day will probably make the owner loose interest .

JD you got the right idea this sounds to good to be true what a great idea man... Let me know if you need anything im in.

JD ,I live close by,would be more than happy to volunteer time for this!!Send me a PM if you need help with scout work on the property.

Until the man says yes it is  too good to be true , But if we do it right , represent ourselves properly , show up in droves the day we need to   It just might become reality .

It does sound great. I have 90 acres and let people ride there occassionally. I have made an 8 acre track for dirt bikes and another one for quads. I have a trail system on the outside including mud and obsticles. I have found that if you maintain the property for riding than the owner is responsible for any accidents that are caused by ?. The owner is responsible and it is very expensive to get insurance. I recommend getting info. on insurance and estimate the cost of building the trails and the tracks. This will be good for the owner to have this info. I own a bobcat and would be willing to donate some hours to help do this.(My property is in Michigan) It costs me $ 1,800.00 for 3 days for up to 100 riders for the weekend. This is a $ 1,000,000 coverage and is not enough. Just something to think of.

I have some contacts .... insurance and a good lawyer , engineer, and a couple biologists . Hopefully we can get it worked out . Only time will tell .

I just opened a computer shop in PSL, and am amazed how many people have quads up here... perhaps a flyer to promote this would get you even more support from people not online. I'd put them on my counter.....and count me in on any help needed.

Zin...buddy, how's it going... Budman the printer for ALL Atv members (I wish) will hook you up with flyers...are you going to MSG in march? I will be going (I Think) later dude...

going saterday to MSG, no RODMAN for me..i'm to shy  [smiley=EvilSmile.gif]...LOL...hopefully ride prairie, and RR and a new place on the west coast before march MSG... but kawasaki willing hell yeah. cya in the mud... bud

NOTE TO ALLL ATV DEALERS!!  NO PLACE TO RIDE= NO NEED TO BUY!!  

Exactly . I am also goin to contact the state to see if there is anything they can do to help remedy this dissaster of no riding areas they have allowed to develope . Maybe some breaks for the owner . Just an idea .

If this does come to happen, and it's begins to work for the good. Is there more land adjacent to this land that could be used for expansion. If so maybe the state could work something out with the landowners for a land lease or other incentives and could still have use for their agricultural uses.

I just sent Gov BUSH a letter . Basicall I told hime we are not criminals , we are just not represented . I asked him if there are any incentives the state could possibly offer landowners ,such as the one I will be meeting , to make it benefitial to them to give us local areas . Dont worry... I had my wife type it up . She is much better at it than me .

The biggest thing the state can do for private land owners is pass legislation to limit their liability, like they have for equestrian sites. The liability insurance is the biggest cost for a private land owner.

I agree , but we really need people to take responsibility for their own actions and stop using the legal system as a way to retire . It is killing all the fun stuff . My dad alway had a saying, 2.things I hate to hear is a grown man cry and a fat baby fart . It took me a long time to figure it out , but now I understand .

Well  Iam   new  on  this  board  but  I  recongnize  a  few names  I n use  to  live  in  PSL  so  I d  be  willing  to  come  and  Help  just  let  me  know  !!!!!

We'll find out more on Feb 2nd .

Not true:

JD: the state has a program where they can assist by issuing a grant. The only thing is, the paper work is very tedious and time consuming. Let me know and I can get you the paper work for your review.

Thanks E , I am new to this whole procedure so any help I can get is greatly appreciated .

I will get it and email to you

Again, [smiley=ThumbsUp.gif] Thanks .

I know it looks like a lot but if you take it piece by piece you shoulod be ok. Let me know if I can help.

i'm going out to lunch with the owner next week . I will let everyone know how it goes as soon as I get back .

I live in Port St. Lucie. If there is anything I can do please let me know. My wife and son also ride, that makes 3 to help.

JD ............ What about TRIKES?  Old school needs representation also. Underhill won't/can't allow them on his property.

Just another piece, of our sport.

To me 2 , 3 , 4 , all the same , but it is up to the owner .I dont know yet but sometime this week .

Keep us updated J. Looks we are making progress with the SQUARES as well. Lets keep it going.

We are set up to talk on Feb 17 at 1:00 . I will keep you posted .

I live on the martin hwy outside of okeechobee. I will be willing also to help in any way possible! I too like the idea of fees to access this property, non alcohol only( as for my 5yr old rides his own quad), and helmet law. Thats great!

You may be able to draw up some sort of no liability clause that keeps the owner safe and these forms being notarized for his protection. I am a notary and am willing to donate my services if need be.


Keep me posted on this as for I just lost my riding spot at the praire.


Scott Delaney

Tomorrow is the day , I will let ya'll know what happens .So far this project is taking alot of time and effort , so I hope we can get your support when needed . I hope to set an example for other atv dealers that a place like this is possible with a little effort but as long as people are doing business with them I guess they dont really have the need or desire .

Good Luck. [smiley=ThumbsUp.gif]

good luck man!!

and out of curiousity, what are the "exotic" plants you're talking about???? Not what I think is it?  Definetly wouldn't wanna be caught runnin around with that on my bike! hehe

We may not have to work the exotics , I,m leaving in about 45 min so when I get back I'll let you know how it went . [smiley=lecture.gif] cool , new smilies .

We will be waiting, let us know

Just got back and eberything went GREAT ! We are continuing on , he showed me the land we will be able to use and I think it will be a GREAT starting point . Now we are bringing in the lawyers for the liability issues .  , And drawing up the anticipated layout . Mini worm track for the little guys , Semi agressive " trail " system with jumps and stuff for the sport people , and a 4X4 proving ground that will provide the obsticals that will represent many different parts of the country . One thing that I hate to say is that there will not be much MUD . I know that it will dissapoint alot of people that there is no mud but I think I can set up some stuff that you and your 4x4 will find very challenging .People will have to pay to play but I think we can make it worth the cash .   [smiley=Approve.gif] [smiley=Approve.gif][smiley=Approve.gif]

Thank alot for your hard work on this! I got the cash to ride when everything is setup ;D

OK OK. Sounding great J. All I need to know is how far from Miami/Broward? Estimate? I can get many poeple interested but need to know distance. Also, can we camp there?

I have a "where to ride in the USA guide" that will help you gather some ideas. Let me know if you want it.

On the turnpike from Miami it will take about 1.5 hrs maybe a little less to get there . We have not wnet over the camping part but we will , The guy who owns the business I work for will be on the phone with the insurance MAN  manana . All the people from WEST Palm ,ST lucie , FT p will be driving under an hour .

Ok, that is not to bad. I can get several members if that is what it takes to get this started(40-60). It would be good if we could spend the night camping though. Should not be a big deal. Just let me know.

It should be an easy ride for you . As the project goes along , there are plans for a pro shop , Food and refreshments , potties , ect ... I hope we can get it done and one thing, the more people we can get the more land we can get . So if we get it started and lose it it would truely be a shame .These opportunities dont come around very much .For any people that think I may be full of B.S. , sometimes I am but this time I'm not . Honest Engine .

Hey this sounds great man!!! we really appreciate all the time and hard work you're putting into this and im sure that everyone will be willing to chip in their own efforts to help get this underway!!

Thanks again!

I just want a place to ride close to home , If we get going the person we all need to to thank is the man with the land .

It sounds good but wait until the owner tries to get insurance and permits. If that can be done, that is when to celebrate. WE do appreciate the work that you are doing. I would be willing to help in many ways, if it gets going before May. That is when I go back to my business for the summer.

If it's 1.5 hours from Miami, it's preety close to Broward then huh?  I'll be going there anyways, gotta ride!

So what is this place going to be called?
Lets call it goodluck praire!  Maybe it'll stay open that way,  :P  
And are the permits going to be the same as the ones for Croom, or different?

We are going to run it from a non profit org . The land is zoned ag it may flow easy it may not , but I will not give up ! It will hopefully work somewhat like Durahmtown .But no races just riding .

Dang im down. Ill pay whatever for a riding place hopefully everything go's well im looking foward to it.  :)

No insurance necesary when the properly formatted document is singed by all visitors. There are ways to create waivers that will clear the owners of any wrong doing and/or responsibility as to what happens out. We will have to be the cops.

The waivers help but not completely . Even though they signed a waiver it doesn't prevent them from taking you to court which can still be $ .

JD:

You are doing something really awesome for us people that love to ride...

I live in Jupiter and share the same dream and passion that you have for the sport...However, I lack the knowledge of getting done what you are attempting.  From a financial standpoint I can certainly be of assistance. I know alot of big players with $$$. Best part is that they all have kids that love to ride and they are really cool people.

If you PM me we can chat.

I admire what you're doing and wish you all the success you deserve for your efforts.  

I'm excited about this...Keep me informed of your progress..

tvman  

I CAN'T WAIT!!  Two Thumbs Up!!  ;D

I sent a letter to Gov.Bush a while back with my concerns about riding areas .  He sent me a reply and believe it or not he signed it ! I'm going to hang it up at the shop.Anyway , I appreciate the kind words but we still have a long row to hoe .If some of the larger land owners in the ag areas could get the right breaks  They would have options other than just sellin out . It would be awsome if we had different areas competing with each other for peoples money .

New to the area, heard about "Holey Land" would appreciate some directions to it. Need to go ridin. e-mail me @ waterdon@bellsouth.net thanks

holley land is close right now you have to ride AREA 3a across the street, a 4x4 quad is a must!!!  no fun on a sport  atv to much mud..   and when the rain season starts it will be closed, from the high water level............

for more info on holleyland go to the FWC web site look under hunting maps for the south areas

Thanks for the info about "Holey Land" didn't know it was run by FWC

It's dry at Holy Lands , a sport will do fine cool place to ride! [smiley=YingYang.gif]

JD, this place is around Boca Raton or Palm Beach area then right?  What does the area look like?  Is it like Croom with sandy trails and lots of trees, or like Naples with like flatter ground and mud?

You may wanna start a thread or do a search

That is completely false. If you sign a waiver it means very little. If the property is maintained by the owner...like making trails and someone hits something. If they sue waivers do not cover neglect issues. I am speeking from experience with my own property. States with government riding areas do not make jumps, burms or tracks for this reason. Insurance is necessary. Do not get me wrong waivers should still be used.

have you been to croom? alot of jumps,trails&burms.  if this is true what your saying the state of FL will never have a atv park for us to ride on!   just more info on the FL ATV TITLE SCAM!!!   dont  title your used ATVS!!  until the STATE steps up with rideing areas  and croom& ONF dont count!!!   >:(

Most state areas are left natural. The burms are from the atv's riding and creating them. What I mean is that you do not usually see the state making jumps or tracks in these areas. They are made naturally from people riding. Go to a track that is man made and maintained, then ask if they have insurance.

Your statement has valid points. I guess what I meant to say is that the need for insurance would not be as great as one would initially think with a properly drafted waiver. The waiver can, in a way bring the levels of insurance coverage down, therefore keeping the opearting expenses lower. But this is why JD started this thread. The more ideas and opinins the better.

That is exactly right , more ideas more possibilities . We gave an insurance man a few rough figures and are awaiting his reply . I realize this whole thing will not be easy and take some imagination but only time will tell . Actually I hate the fact that we are in a situation where we have to pay to ride , but if we dont start now the 20 acre RANCHETTES will chew up the rest of the land available . THEN WHAT DO WE DO ?

According to the responses J, looks like paying will not be a problem. I have 20-50 that will pay.

I'm another that will pay. Fast trails with jumps and such is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Does anyone know of any others? Anyways, I'm down for whatever it takes to get this done. I live in Central FL, but I don't care   ;D

Sounds great!!  Keep us updated.  I live in Clearwater and am looking for places to ride.  

Will do .

when will this place be opening we rosser riders are getting chased by the cops they are shutting the the places down with guard rails we need places close

by the way no one should mind a fee they charge at croom

  Looking at other post on this fourm, alot of land owners are making $$$$  on there land by having ATVuse.  Icross, & now a place in palmdale.  J.D you might get in touch or go to a L-CROSS event to get info on what you need to do...
:-*

I live off Rosser also . I am just waiting for a quote from the insurance man , then we will go for the next meeting with the land owner .

This looks to me like a jacka$$ without a helmet. This is the reason why we have so much trouble finding places to ride. I hate getting confrontational but this is rediculas. Get a grip jag-off and go buy a f'ing helmet. >:( >:( >:( >:(

Still working with insurance people ........ They dont get in tooo much of a hurry . But we are still on it !

OK OK. Let us know J.

helmets are not the reason for losing riding areas...relax dude.

Not specifically, however it leads to other things and gives our sport a bad name.

This is what happens:

The tree huggers are always complaining to state officials about us. So they say these guys are wreckless, they tear up the land and: here it comes: "dont wear helmets", "they are killing themselves", "they have no regard for life".


I know I am going a little extreme but you get the picture.


WEAR YOUR HELMETS and if you dont wanna, dont be a moron and take a pic catching 30 feet of air without one on.

We are trying to get access to more land to ride. More from private owners than anything else. If one of those owners were to see people getting crazy without helmets I would think that they would never give it another thought. It only take one person to die or get seriously injured without a helmet to screw everything up. I guess you just can't teach common sense.

BALDY i am a real cool guy so i think you should use your words a little better back in the day i would give you a time and place to talk your talk but i am above that now also i ride with a helmet and gear but this was one of those spur of a moment rides to check out the jump on my own property so the way i see it is you should use better wording and dont insult people you dont know ok so be nice we all should stick together

p.s. that was a little bump any way and like i said i was my land also i came from lost lake area and moved up here to buy land so i have places to ride how ever i want so lets just let the insults go and start over

I personaly feel that is nuts bra. You may not care what I think but oh well. You may be cool but if you wanna keep on being cool, wear a helmet. Cause you may not walk away the next time you wreck and dont have a helmet on. Just looking out, If you are going to jump a 10 foot jump and not wear a helmet please do not post the pic. Dont make sense.

It realy does not matter if it was your land. If you wanna do it, do it just dont post a pic like that. Does not give our sport a good name.

Sorry Bro........I just get enraged when I see people riding without helmets. I was riding North Port a couple of months ago and I saw this guy riding his quad with his daughter on the back. Neither one  of them were wearing helmets. Then I saw them roll it into one of the revines. After I saw that the little girl was ok I wanted to pummel the jerk with my helmet. They weren't even riding fast. You never know when something is going to happen even on your own property. So no offense, but I hope you see where I'm coming from.

JD seems to be working really hard on this new place to ride and I would hate to see it all go for not if the landowner decided to see that picture on this thread.  ;)

thats cool you should get to port st lucie area and go riding some times

I think you are real close to the place JD is talking about....

So whats finally going to happen? Anyway I can help?  All I know is that insurance for these types of sports like paintball and skating dont come cheap. So I can't even begin to think how much this is going to be! Besides that, this sounds great!

At this stage, we are still trying to obtain insurance.  Due to the value of the land we are wanting to lease, the risk of a law suit is greater.  If no assets or assets worth very little were involved, this would not be an issue.  Otherwise we could just say, "Use at your own risk" and not carry insurance, but the landowner is at great risk for a lawsuit and we need to insure his well-being.

JD: I know several INS. agents down south that work with a huge amount of INS. companies that may able to help. PM me if anything.

JD As you know I have had to get the insurance for my property in Michigan for when I host riding events. There are insurance companies that handle things like this but they are not the ones that you call for car, home and life insurance. I got mine through Ohio Casualty. I will call tomorrow to get the number for you. I think that they handle most states.
Just remeber that it will be very expensive. You could also PM mudmaster about who handles the L-cross insurance. Tony

The first company to give us a quote is 17,000 per year . Out of about 50 companies they are the first to even say it is possible . Now it is time to break out the calculator again .

Hey, a $10 entry fee to the park, and with 1,700 riders a year (easily done), you're set to go.  Make it $15 and that'll cover other odds and ends, but I'm sure you've already thought this through, for a while now.  ;)
If you haven't asked the Seminole track, maybe they could tell you what insurance they use, that sorta stuff.

Well, that is not that bad JD. If we get 350 members at $50.00 per member (kids ride free), we would have the 17K. the first 350 would have advantage as far as rights to camp there or something like that, just an idea. I think it may feasible. We should take a pole and see how many we can get to pay $50.00 for a yearly membership.

Dont forget we have to pay the landowner . That is just the price of insurance !

Yeah that would be something we would need to include, DUH! I got a little excited there. As it is now, we have had about 100 responses to this thread injcluding those who said: me and probably 2,3,4,10 friends. I still think it is doable.

Count me in I live in port st lucie at the end of Del-Rio

Count me in as well! Over at river ranch acreage you not only have to own a deed there but you also have yearly fees associated with the land. I think that having yearly fees is a good thing and it helps to insure that people are serious is when it cost them so that when it is all said and done you aren't stuck with the bill.  L-Cross is charging 35.00 per weekend and they are only operating once per month. Imagine if you could operate everyweekend!

Keep up the good work and if there is anything I can do to help let me know!!!

JD COUNT ME AND ABOUT 4 OTHER ROSSER RIDERS IN  ONE FRIEND IS BUYING A RAPTOR TODAY SO WE NEED TO KEEP A PLACE TO RIDE

I'd pay 50 dollars a year for a nice place to ride for me and my kids

I also know quite a few other people who would be willing to pay for a place to have a good legal fun to ride and not be hassled

There is a group of us willing to help out. Would love to have someplace close and safe to ride. Let me know what we can do.

Hey:

Have you thought of making a founding members club..Lets say we pay $2500 or so and get some real privileges or something...Like a VIP Club..we get our own reserved camp site...parking, etc.

You could have this thing paid for by tonight...I'm in no matter what the cost.

tvman

I am only allowed 100 riders at one time per 90 acres. J.D. do you know if the insurance company has given you any restrictions. Have you discussed with the county about camping ? I am also restricted on the number of RV's that are allowed per acre. I do this as a property owner not to make money but the love of the sport. Do you know what the land owner is looking for ? In dollars of course. I found out that the company that handles my insurance does not provide insurance in Florida. The $ 17,000.00 sounds good to me. That is cheaper than what I would pay if I was allowed to do it year round. My insurance would equal $ 30,000.00+ a year.

Is the property fenced ? If you charge $ 200.00 a year membership this including all fees and camping. I feel that you could easily get 200-500 members to buy in. This would bring in $ 40,000.00-100,00.00. to pay owner, insurance, port-o-lets, garbage dumpsters, lighting (at parking area),fence repairs etc.

how far of a drive would it be from psl and where is this place?if its close i got about 5 people who could help

Right now the people who were backing me are getting nervous . Here is my idea " A group a people create a non for profit org ..... " this would be the riders "....Get enough of us together to cover the insurance an a profit for the landowner .The problem I am running into is the money people want to make money.....we need to take them out of the equation and make sure the only person to profit is the landowner . Some of my partners may be getting cold feet because of the money , but I just want a place to ride ..
We as a company are still working on it and it is a very frustrating experience but I am starting to feel that we need to handle it amongst ourselves . We have to knock out the middle MAN . I will talk with the landowner soon " Joey " I think we can get around some of our hurdles if we work together and not with the middle "money "man involved

i know at least 10 peopel that would pay like 50 a year for entry

Hey JD:

I think you're seeing here that you can probably get enough players on ATV FLorida to give you the initisl investment you would require to fund this project.

Collectively, we are all just looking for a place we can call our own to ride and enjoy..

A Non-Profit Co is a good idea...Great tax benefits and the ability to have a large membership to fund ongoing expansion of ATV riding in the State of Florida..Finally, a voice that will be heard...

tvman

If we could get our 35 bucks back it would be a good start . When someone tries to get a park like this going , if you do not own the land yourself the fees you must charge to cover your expenses get ridiculous . We would have to charge 50 bucks a day just for people to ride and it is just too much $ .It almost seems like we are going to have to do it with small groups. We will have to find a willing landowner , get our own insurance as a group , construct our own area . It is just not fair that the state will not help us out. If the state would simply limit the landowners liability our problems would be over .  Their committee on riding areas including MR. Bronson have not done anything but waste our money and close more of our trails . How much worse can it get ? We should not have to go to these extremes to have places in our areas to ride. Our rights are being stomped all over and nothing is being done about it .

HEY JD I'M NEW BUT I CAN HELP WITH ANY WORK TUESDAYS TROUGH FRIDAYS AND I CAN ASK MY BROTHER IN-LAW, BECAUSE HE HAS A NURSERY AND KNOWS ALL NATIVE FLORIDA PLANTS BECAUSE THATS ALL HE DEALS WITH.

like i said before in manys posts,  STOP THE FL ATV TITLE SCAM!!!  they taking out $$$$$$$  and giving us 000000  dont buy NEW atvs  and dont TILTE your used ATV!!!!   >:(

We got some new insurance numbers that are a little better .Up to 250,000 riders per year . Now we go back to the land owner , He said he had another piece of land a little bigger . Size matters . We are still working on it .

Where is this place?

yea i would like to know where this place is i got friends that would pay whatever the hell u ask

INDIANTOWN !

INDIANTOWN???? where is that sorry i am alittle challanged

west of jupiter east of okeechobee north of west palm bch in the middle of no where  8)TEXT

J.D. I forgot to mention that I require that the atv has insurance. I found that many atv owners do have insurance. I know that this may not be welcomed at first but it is to the advantage of everyone. First it reduced the price of the insurance for the event. Second it provides medical and theft coverage. The property insurance covered anything that the bike insurance did not. I have been lucky and have not had to make any claims. We have had injuries but no lawsuites or claims. I have progressive insurance on my bikes and it costs me $ 180.00 a year for both bikes.

thanks for that bit of info Custom, I was unaware hat you can have insurance on our 4 wheelers and for about .50 a day thats a great deal. You did say that covers medical and theft right

JD: is there anything we (the clientele or riders interested) could be doing in the mean time?

It is just like motorcycle insurance. I believe that it is listed the same way on my policies.

EWORM , Just showing support on this web site helps alot right now !

JD just your info im in also have other friends interrested to help or whatever needed can even put my son to work hope it works out THANKS

JD WHAT EVER I CAN DO LET ME KNOW I SENT LETTERS AND EMAILS TO THE LOCAL COUNTIES AND STATE OFFICALS TO TRY TO GET LEGAL RIDING SPOTS CLOSE TO SOUTH FLORIDA

JD: looks like you have strong backing here now. Together with the respect you have gained on this site and the responses to this post, I think you are pretty close to getting what you need. Where are you with the process?

It is tough trying to run a dealership, answer the phone , turn the wrenches, be a salesman ect.....What I truely need is time .The insurance people are very slow to communicate....and this whole process may take quite a while from what I have seen .We have a cooperative landowner but it is a very slow process . A couple of simple law changes and we would have been riding already ! I know ya'll would like it to roll quickly and so would I , but please be patient and continue showing support. It aint over till we're riding. But in my situation time is crutial. I just had shoulder surgery monday so responsibilities are piling up .

good luck on your recovery and i will give you a call some time about what we talked about this is jack

That leaves my family out. Why the gay insurance rules? I've never had a problem with not having insuarnce other places

how much could it cost

A lot of dough. read the whole thread, the numbers are there.

i did read the whole thread why are you so sarcastic i was stating how much could it cost like money should not mater to have a legal place by the way the topic changed so much and what did i do to have you all over me with smart words be nice PEACE

by the way how much per person or veh. reg could it cost i am not talking total for the insuance for the land i meant per person   HOW MUCH COULD IT COST

HUH? Dude, we are in this together. I was in no way being sarcastic. On many ocasions people reply without reading the entire thread. And money is an obstacle for some. Perhaps not you, but for some it is.

Be nice? I could understand if I put something like

"read the whole thread moron"

or

"dont you know anything, it takes a lot of money to do this"

I did not because you asked a simple question that generated a simple answer.

If you thought I was being rude and/or sarcastic I do apologize.

Perhaps this response is better suited:

This project will cost a good amount of money. I believe the numbers are in the thread.

Somewhere around $200-300 per year per vehicle. Depending on what kind of place it is, it may be worth it.

JD: hope you recover soon. Make sure you hit the physical therapy hard

EWORM no problem i am here to try and help out the cause as much as posible i should not take things the wrong way

again, I do apologize if you did. So, yeah we need to stick around and wait for J to say the word......

It is going to take a while so just stick together . I'll give Joey a call next week , he said he had a bigger piece of land for us to look at ,and that is very important! We have to have enough land to make all the numbers click , we can't expect to meet the insurance , landowners fees with 50 acres of land ......That is where the whole thing gets tricky .It has to be entertaining with enough room so people will show up in numbers sufficient to make enough profit to be worth the investment . IT's tough being the middleman ! lets try to keep this topic on topic because last time we met I printed up ya'll's replies for him to keep and read . We are a team even if we don't realize it , words are a powerful thing  if used properly and honestly ! Keep in mind he is a straight talkin country boy .

J: keep in mind, that with minor changes to the track and/or trails it can make it a comepletely different expirience everytime the clients (us) go out there. A new twist here and a different turn there along with a new jump or something like that every so often... U know what I mean??? IMO it does not have to be that big of a place as long as it is maintained and it does not seam the same everytime. But dont get me wrong: THE BIGGER THE BETTER.

Did you hear all the comments about MSG last month being over crowded  ?The land size is one of our biggest hurdles so far ! I will definately keep it interesting , alot of stuff that no park in fl has to offer . The 4x4's will be introduced to a whole new type of riding ......Technical . And for the sports , a toned down moto x track . But it's going to be a bit .

I hate to say it , but we have to put our efforts on pause for a bit . I know some of you will be Pi$$ed but I cant help it ...I'm sorry . We just cant get enough land to support enough riders to make all the numbers click. If someone can get a group together with 40 riders or so willing to pay about $ 750 each let me know and I will help as much as I can . That will cover insurance and profit for the owner .. without me "middle man "
Again I'm  very sorry but my time and resources are spent . :-/

So can we safely say that if we get 300 members at $100.00 per member we can do this?

Probably but ....everything will have to be constructed by vols. Potty...Track ....Again I'm sorry but I just cant get it done as a middle man .

So taking the pottys and bath rooms out of the picture, we would just basically have to groom it with tractors and bobcats? Is this what you are saying J?

And get it worked out with the owner ...Probably not enough room for 300 members .

JD how many acres is i could tell you if that is enough room

hey man im up her in vero id be more n happy to get a crew n come help just give me sum directions thanx

Count me and little rednec in if it is within a 100 miles of Orlando

>Probably not enough room for 300 members .<< 

I hardly think 300 people would show up at one time.

>>40 members willing to pay $750<<<

 And what do those 40 'members' get?

If a person or corporation had the land.......they could easily, for a yearly fee......get more than three hundred people and charge a couple hundred bucks  ($20 a month is not too outrageous.....considering the mileage I would expend going to Ocala Ntl. Forest or to croom.)  Porta potties would suffice for restrooms..........sure.........water fountains would be nice...........but lets get the riding area down first.
   My next thought is this sounds like a scam.........allot of hype, then backing out.....
     But for $750...what do we get?  (you not being a middleman and all..............)

             Chuck

hey yuall is it in pbc if not where is it i would love too go and what terain is it mud trails tracks???????????????????????????????

JD  ,   count on me and I'll get more people.

i think this idea has been tossed in the garbage, too expensive to happen right now.

We live in St. Lucie and I'd be interested in joining. We just got 3 4-wheelers and need places to ride. LMK if I can help.

any one heard about cops giving tickets out at seaword was planning a ride onthe 21st

dont go (seaworld ) you'll be finger printed and maybe fined

I'm in PSL and can help out if needed. There are still a few places we ride here but soon they will be gone. The need for a club is growing here. The club can get vouches for acquisitions like this one.

so is thing out the doors id be willing to help not all the time but i can help if the land is still avible and everything u know

Hey folks, we (http://www.fl-atv.com (http://www.fl-atv.com)) have enough people to start our first park. All we need to do is identify some land for a purchase. Our group will put it all together and it won't be temporary. Remember we're about fractional ownership FOREVER.

So, anyone who is aware of some real riding land "for sale" please let me know via email purchase@fl-atv.com

We'll take care of ourselves and create our own riding land.

How much land are you looking for, what areas and what price range?

I have a friend with some heavy equipment. Maybe there could be some kind of contract for frequent land grading to keep the grounds ridable. Maybe even help build a track!

Any updates?

hey Raptor660R, I didn't receive an email telling me there was a response here(sorry).

What I believe us as a group will buy into is around 400 or so acres. Fortunately, the price has been dropping in recent months. I believe we'll be able to find prices in the $10-14,000 dollar per acre range (roughly 4-6 million per riding facility). The real plus with what we're doing is everyone owns. They can sell, trade - whatever with their share of the land.

I believe we can support several riding areas we just need to join forces and open our first one. Then we can add more and those who purchased a little far from home initially can trade or sell out to buy into one closer to their home (or own into multiple locations).

I've found acreage that has been cleared...I'm sure we don't want that. I've also found (but haven't been able to research) 400+ wooded acres off Hwy27 near hwy 64 (near Sebring and Lake Placid).

For the heck of it...how does something like that sound to you (in the $3-4,000 per owner range)??

Will you be able to pay to get in, or will you have to have pitched in for the land to ride there? And where might the riding area be located?

Well it all depends on what they will get in return. It will be hard to find people to dish out $3000-4000 without anything it it for them. Will they make anything overtime? This could be done with having a seperate entity set up basically an LLC and everyone owns shares in the company, and the company owns the land, that way everyone is protected. Also, are you still looking in the Ft. Pierce area?

I'd respond more timely but I'm apparently not receiving the email notification (sorry).

The $3-4,000 is for ownership. The technique is an LP with a GP. In English, the LLC doesn't provide the protection or the wide ownership needed. Our attorneys have already designed the LP (Limited Partnership) where owners of the land will be "Partners" of the LP and can buy and sell their interest at will and are not personally at risk of any law suit that may arrise out of an injury (short of it being their own fault of course). The GP (General Partner) is a requirement for the government of the LP - this furthers the span of liability issues for the limited partners. It will be a corporation for further protection for those people responsible for the operations. Since we obviously live in a suit happy world we'll all need as much distance and protection against that 1 injury that we all hope never happens and this will give much of that.

After dishing out multiples of $3-6,000 just for our machines this investment is the icing on the cake! A place to ride whenever and forever. You also asked "will they make anything over time?". Of course our desire is for everyone to purchase with useage as their primary intent. We all will have a marketable stake in the property. We can buy and sell individually or we can all vote to sell off the whole thing. I personally would buy and use (hold). Who knows what 10-20 yrs down the road could bring as a return-on-investment though. I think it's all good!

In response to MachineDog , we wouldn't be allowed to charge on a per usage basis. That would make this an operational business (instead of simple ownership) and the obstacles/liabilities would be tremendous. Our current technique is tough for municipalities to stop us from riding because it's our land we're riding on and we have that right. I've found no county that has prohibited the use of our own land for this purpose (with the exception of the city of "PALM BAY") Funny people they are. The city passed a law that (without coming out and saying it) requires approx 17.84 acres just to start your ATV (in the middle of the property) which is 500' from your nearest neighbor [pie r(squared)]. Who needs Palm Bay though.   400 + acres will resolve any of those issues.

To answer what I believe may be at the root of your question, we will be seeking out the ability to offer financing. Fractional ownership can be a bear to secure financing for, but we'll try.

One of the more recent statistics about ATV'rs in Florida is that there are 100's of thousands of us. We can easily open ownership riding areas all over Florida with a nominal investment. The majority of people who have signed up at our web site  www.fl-atv.com (http://www.fl-atv.com) with the desire to own their own riding land are from the areas I-4 and South. The north half of Fl still needs areas because we have plenty of folks in those areas but based on the majority our first group of facilities will be South.

"the majority our first group of facilities will be South" your last line has caught my attention. When you say south do you mean south of like Ft Myers area. Southwest Florida has no legal Family ATV riding areas. Hope its this way. Croom is just too far and thats the nearest non mud pit place. We have lost so many areas due to overdevelopemnt and a county commission that only cares about themselved. At least Naples is trying.

I'm watching the Naples thing too! It appears to have a lot of promise. Maybe even the begining of state land for more parts of Florida.

To answer your question, in short - "yes". I'll guess Croom is about 2-3 hrs from you. The area we feel that will get the most initial support is more like 1 to 1.5 hrs from you probably along or near the hwy27 corridor.
 

Not interested in riding with a helmet on.Willing to pay and or help with the site.If it has to be with helmets though I will pass.

sbripple: I'd have to say you have contributed nothing to this forum but negative posts. I don't know you, but I can guess you are one of the riders that screws it up for everyone else.

We *always* ride with a helmet, except when doing yardwork which consists of staying under 4mph.

machine dog ,That was uncalled for....you are beginning to get on my nerves.I am trying to be positive about this but I am entitled to my input ,whether you agree or not .Please dont be a thingy head.all I said is all I said.dont add to it or start that other poop again.

you hit the nail on the head

there goes sbripple agian..
do you come on here just to anoy people??
 >:(
ugh
stop starting stuff and being negative

link=topic=2166.msg217697#msg217697 date=1155779023]
there goes sbripple agian..
do you come on here just to anoy people??
 >:(
ugh
stop starting stuff and being negative

[/quote]


 hey were u at underhills in the first pick  just wandering

yessir i was

good times...good times  :)

Id pay to ride...long as it wasnt too far away...