ATV Florida Forum

croom should have a national dewhoop day where everyone brings a shovel and spend the day filling in the whoops :o

Better yet spend some of that $50 per bike per year and rent a few bobcats and level them all in a weekend without breaking a sweat. Now that would make Merry Christmas for thousands of riders. But then the ACLU and a few anti religion nuts would scream that there is no seperation of church and state and sue to close the whole park down. Danged if you do and whooped if you don't. Ahh America..... land of the free, home of the brave, and tolerant of everyone but the mass majority that constitutes most of it's citizens, founders and their ideals. Put up a manger scene and you get sued, picketed, threatened, mocked, and slandered, but rob someone and trip while running from the cops and get money from the county because there was a pot hole in your get away route.
I apologize as I didn't initially intend to hijack your post, but....

That was great! the bobcat idea is a good one if they will let the machinery in the forest

were u up this way dreth?

not lately

I figured with the bobcats they could navigate through the woods without taking out any trees and we all know the atv's put out more combined exhaust (especially those darn 2-strokes  ;) ) than a few cats would make. It's a nice dream, but not one that I would ever expect to come true. But hey I can dream.

maybe if we all sent letters in to the right people asking them to consider it ,they might.

Use A loudspeaker while you do it ;D

I wonder if a group like us wanted to rent a bobcat with some nice attachment to smooth out those whoops,,,,,would we be allowed to do it?

after hunting season of course.

hmmmmm he says,,,I got a truck strong enough to pull a bobcat and I would happily drive it up from Orlando.

things that make you go,,,, hmmmmmmm

Id@

I've got a buddy that drives a dozer for a living. I'm sure he would love to knock out those whoops as he rides croom too. I they would allow it we could raise the money and labor I'm sure. I'm sure in for a weekend if it makes for better riding.

I think a bobcat would be the best way because it's small,,,,we all know how tight some of the trails at croom are.

I'm looking into this definately.

Id@

maybe even some kind of promotion, or a sponsorship from a local parts shop to put a banner on the side of the dozer or bobcat for "X" amount of dollars.

Id@

I agree that a dozer is way too big for croom, I was just mentioning his occupation to sort of nominate him to operate any equipment that we might get since he does it for a living he is probably better at it than us and would get more done in less time. I don't think we would have to sell sponsorship. To rent a bobcat it's only a couple of hundred dollars. I am sure we would get enough from this site in donations alone to cover that expense. And even if someone couldn't donate money they could offer time to help out. I am sure we would still need some shovels out there too. We would probably need a couple of bobcats and as much labor as we could get. The first step is to see if we can get it okayed before we put any effort into raising money or labor help. I am not sure where to start with that. Which agency is responsible for Croom's maintenance? If we could just get permission the rest would come together quickly.

good post cain, i cant help with the money but my arms and legs and a shovel sure can ;)

I think the first step is to get someone on the ball to find out who we need to speak to about this. That means internet research and/or making some phone calls to get to the right people. If they o.k. it we're good to go with gathering support, money, labor and coordinating the whole thing.
Another consideration might be a petition to show support for the idea before we present it to those in charge. If someone is able to dedicate the time to do the research please let us know so we're not all doing the same work for nothing. I would like to do it, but am usually so strapped for time that it would take forever. Any volunteers ?

Cain write me something up that looks good and send it to me.Or post it here as far as a petition goes.While I'm at Croom those 5 days,dont think I wont walk around the park and have it signed ;DI'm just not good w/words!

Also about us raising money for the equipment.Ya'll are probably gonna get mad at me for saying this.But everyone who rides and camps at Croom is already throwin them a bunch of $$$$$$$$$.I was gonna ask the Park Rangers if they could somehow come up w/something.Fellow riders could join in,bring shovels.

But to rent something out of our pockets I dont really see that happening.Your talking rental fees for more than a weekend,diesel also which isnt cheap to fill a bobcat.

The trails that I've seen can be taken care of w/shovels{back breakin job}but will do.A bobcat would do good on the wider open whooped out roads.You cant get back in the woods on one of those w/o causing more damage.Such as when you go to turn in tight spots,,,,,,,your gonna be digging more holes by doing so.But then again I dunno much ;D

*plus you might wanna add something to the effect, "if the park had to shut down for at least a week,would you be okay with that?-open only to volunteers...

I'll volounteer for calling and research, I've been thinking of this for scrub for a long time,,,,it's the reason I don't go to scrub.

and it would certainly be easy to get a bobcat working on the powerline road around scrub.

I'll start today if I can.

Id@

what kind of research do you want?

The only bad thing I can think of about doing it by hand , there will be alot of large roots inside the whoops . That could be very discouraging . :-/

I was thinking that if the bobcats stayed to the main trails and only where it would fit it would make things better without trying to flatten every trail there which would take more than a weekend. I don't think it would have to shut down croom for a full weekend, We could shut down smaller parts while working on them (reason for the labor) and mark them and even have people out there to make sure no one comes haulling around a corner into a bobcat. The rental fees wouldn't be bad. a couple bucks from everyone would do it. Not everyone can or would have to donate money either.

Michelle, I will type something up a little later today to take around to other riders. I will pm it to you to print out.

And remember that the more people we have together behind this the more pull we have and the more likely we will be to get it done. talk to other riders even if they don't belong to this site. We won't know if we don't try.  

If there were no whoops at croom people would be mad about how fast every one was going and the amount of injuries would go up due to increased speeds .Whoops are like speed bumps,if the whoops didn't slow people down the trees would.
Whoops seperate the men from the boys!!!!!!!!!!!

 i agree with Hot dog . on the long fast straights leve some patches of whoops , just not 4 or 5 miles worth of them

a bobcat is not the right tool for the job! you need a box blade! its the same size and designed for grading. im in for donating some $ for the cause since i did start this post.

as far as the whoops being speed bumps and slowing people down goes is a very true statement but it also discourages alot of riders. if croom was smart they would set up 1 way only trail systems of different skill levels and lenghts and then you would not have bike on bike collisions and they could widen the trails by a few feet and reduce the risk of bike on tree collisions which would enable machinery in to maintain the trails periodically and open up rescue lanes for those occasional accidents.

just my opinion so im open to feedback on this idea. i enjoy the challenge but i also enjoy my life

box blade?

never heard of it, but I will add it to the research list.

Id@

Box Blades work ok but most of them are on the back of tractors and you have to back up more than go forward. I used 1 at my house and talk about a stiff neck. :(...A Bob Cat with the rubber tracks would be the way to go. The Bob Cats with the tires get stuck real easy in the lose stuff.

My .02

I agree with hotdog as well. We already had this topic a while back. If you don't like the whoops go to a track.That's right they have whoops too.  $50 dollars a year isn't anything to ride somewhere all year long. There are a lot of places to ride in croom without all the whoops you just have to go off the main trails. If you like the one way Trail idea that eliminates all your freedom of choice and croom isn't large enough. i've seen plenty of dumb@sses fly down the main trails and without some of the whoops you asking for serious trouble .Think of it as natures speed humps or natural selection (which ever you prefer).We ride at least twice a month if not more up there and if you expect something completely flat it's up there but not where eveyone rides.Look at the road on the way in, i'd rather have that graded more often.

my .02

It's not an issue of having completely flat trails, or one way trails. However I for one would like them at least reduced in size as they are not anything like track conditions. If they were no one would want to change it. Those of us that think it needs grooming at least seem to be in the majority. If most of the people that ride Croom would like a change then your go to a track comment is over ruled. We aren't complaining about the annual fee either as it is reasonable. But we should have the right to attempt to better the riding conditions if we want. We aren't saying to raise the price to pay for it. The fee would be nominal and could be raised privately as well as the labor and equipment. And admit it or not, if it is ever done you too would enjoy not having the mountain size whoops to navigate all day. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't mean yours is always right. Don't try to rain on the parade. No one knows if it's possible to get this approved by the state. We are just voicing ideas about how to find out and what to do if it is approved. Constructive criticism appreciated. If you know anything from past attempts or discussions on the subject please post it.

just a side note: i like the whoops! but not all my friends that ride with me do!
i started this post as a joke, just to see what kinda response i would get. suprised to see all the interest and effort that is willing to go into the project.
i just dewhooped a track that is a 1/4 mile long with a box blade in under 2 hours and im not an experienced operator. someone might pose the .......which equipment is best for the job question.......to an expert operator of some kind. and yes the whoops were every bit as big as croom whoops because it had not been seen to in over ten years . its not a leagal track and that is why it recieved no attention.
as far as majority rules goes, make a poll on this site asking the question .....would you rather keep the whoops at croom or get rid of them? i dont think its even close.
lets stay positive and continue to try until a decision has been made one way or the other ;D

Keep the whoop's, they keep the stupid people from getting stupider, this is why they sectioned off the main road with no riding sections.

It's amazing when dreth likes the whoops ,admits he hasn't been there in a while and started this to get us going you want to take over. I have been going  to croom since  the late 80's ,there were whoops back then as well, I think they have always been there. I've been there after the rains they aren't as bad and I've been there in the dry season when they get big. Maybe on a ds thet are mountain like but on my pos warrior  they are a not that big in size or issue.  
Croom is a very large area and you know ,if you ever get off the two lane dirt trails and actually ride in the woods it is not that bad. If it was, I think a lot more people would be offering support. My guess is they don't really care.
As far as the fees you said they could spend our money better or some of it on that.  I never brought up you using fees or said anyone wanted to raise them( I believe someone said donate). The state can do that on their own. As far as closing the park to let you all do maintenance or even certain trails, never going to happen. If you want to help out volunteer. They are always looking.
As far as my being negative about this issue that's me. I have two children, a wife and alot of friends that ride with us and the day some jack@ss hits one of them on it's not going to be a good day. It has happened almost already and that's with the way it is now. So if you don't like my opinion T.S.
You all spend all this energy on whoops , why not riding areas or education so safety wouldn't be an issue. I was there a month ago when the idiots arrived and commenced to riding on the road doing donuts and wheelies. Stupid hurts them and us(atver's) . So if you want to help start there.
So to end my rant , I didn't know I couldn't post my negative opinion but to quote a friend and my 9 year old  " whoops seperate the men from the boys "  so take your side.

Not that sore of a subject,  just a shame to put all that time and resource into such a trivial thing. I got the lighter side of it from the start . Some people just take it to far and then ignore the bigger issues. All this time could have been spent writing represenatives and people in charge of our future riding areas. Be happy with what you have and work towards the bigger picture. I've written the people on the links hopefully everyone else has as well.

the pic was an accident

I run heavy equpiment and if this got approved I would be more than happy to help out... DONT RAIN ON OUR PARADE!!

I think Dreth had a great idea about a poll to see how the majority goes. And if those people want to get together it's their decision. everyone has an opinion, but that doesn't mean that someone that has a different one should be negative and continue to post on a thread where most people agree and want to discuss a topic. I agree about the need for better education and training for beginers, but turning the whoops from mountains into mole hills will not make or prevent accidents. My friend was hit by a 14 year old on a 300 ex not looking and paying attention. my friend was unable to ride for quite a while and needed surgery to fix his hand. Yes it was a bad day, but had nothing to do with whoops. like has been said don't rain on our parade. if we want to look into improving croom and put our time, money , and energy into it you should leave it alone. you have posted you 2 cents. enough said. we respect that , but you should also respect the opinions of others that may differ from yours. if you don't agree with the obvious consensus of this thread don't read or post. If you do please do it constructively even if you don't agree. Be respectful. If that bothers you start a negative attitude, pro-whoop, dictator run post of your own. ::)

Here's a suggestion put your time and energy into a gym membership and your money into new shocks.If you ride at Croom and don't get sore you have not rode hard enough.   ;D

If ppl are serious about this get ahold of Tammy at Croom.

Was told FTR does alot of volunteer work out there,by the Park Ranger.He said that would be another way of going about it.Maybe get w/them,is what he said.

I went,I asked,now I'm out ;DIm not gettin' into some big pow-wow :P

how are things going?

how are things going?

I know Dreth has posted ,and I know I postED before that.BUT I CANT see a damn thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 ???

VERRY WELL SAID!!!! I appreciate the flow of words, THANKS,good to know some one feels the way I do.

    -Jeff/Shadowmman

Sorry to be so negative, but if I'm paying $50 to ride there.
They need to fix it. I have never been to an MX track with fees that "you" have to maintain.

How about just a Croom boycott? If they don't fix it, don't ride there. I'm sure one season with less $$$ will make them  listen.
Unlike Ocala Croom is privately owned....

My opinions are obvious, but I think a poll is in order to see what other members think. This is not something that can or should be done by a few. Take a poll and see if there is a consensus and if anyone is interested in getting together on a cooperative effort to do something.

Michelle,
I tried that email you sent me (before you went to croom) but it came back saying it was not valid.

I agree with mars .Even though it's not privately owned and every track you ride has a gate and race fee(wonder what they are for?)Everyone should boycott it until they  fix them. Thanks in advance and flame on. ;)

See Cain I can be positive ;D

ok , im not a computer guy so who knows how to start this pole and maybe even a petition like they are doing for the squares down south. there is strenght in numbers.

i just voted

Boycott thats a good ideal.Less people in the way.If they close Croom I still have a place to ride. ;D

Hum,I have givin that e-mail to several ppl.And have recieved e-mail back.Dont know why it didnt work with you.Here it is again,not sure when I will be going back.I'm wright in the middle of moving.But please send it to me and I'll put it to good use when I do go back.

                 mdh58789@earthlink.net

Poor wording on my part.. I ment I pay fees at the local tracks but I don't have to pick up shovel there.

I was wrong about it being private or contracted out. They are just screwing you like at B.C. ($50)

the only real problem i see with fixing the whoops(other than the fact we use them for building endurance)is its florida,its really soft sand....you fix them perfectly smooth this weekend,next weekend they're back....ever go out on sat morn in the front pit and spend a couple hours laying out a small track to race your buddy on,get it perfect,come back on sunday and its gone....ive been riding at croom for over 20 yrs,we used to be able to hit the main road and relax when the whoops got to be too much..that was stopped because guys were running 70plus mph up and down the road and causing accidents...if the trails are smooth and the speeds are faster people will get hurt more often,end result will be loss of privelidge...just remember how annoying it was a few mos back when they shut down for the hurricanes,imagine if they shut down for good...croom used to be predominately dirt bikes,take a look next time you go out,looks like atvs are taking over...everyone wants to ban atv riding,lets not hurts our sport anymore than necessary...jmho