ATV Florida Forum

The Record Of Decision for the Ocala National Forest has been released. Read it here-


http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/florida/projects/documents/nepa/oca%20access/Final%20Ocala%20Access%20ROD%2012-15-05.pdf (http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/florida/projects/documents/nepa/oca%20access/Final%20Ocala%20Access%20ROD%2012-15-05.pdf)

Well, we are down to 42 miles of ATV trails. Rodman Pit will remain open as a day use area while they dump lake sediment there while they remove the Ocklawaha Dam.

I think our best bet is to NOT complain. We should be happy they decided on Alternative D. They could have chosen an Alternative that allows NO riding at all. We need to be respectful of the new rules and trails so they don't take them away!!! 42 miles is not alot, but alot better than taking the whole forest away.

Starting tomorrow, there is a 105 day period when the decision can be appealed.

It allocates 86 miles of mixed-use trails for licensed and unlicensed vehicles, 42 miles of ATV/motorcycle trails and 13 miles of motorcycle-only trails. But, will ATVs be prohibited on those 86 miles of mixed-use trails? And, it does not provide an implementation date. It states that implementation will begin after the appeal period ends. And, an appeal must be postmarked or received within 45 days after the Notice of Decision is published in the Ocala Star Banner. So, has this decision, made 12/27/05, been published in the Ocala Banner, yet?

It does away with 1558 miles of existing access "smaller roads"

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/florida/projects/documents/nepa/oca%20access/FEISSummary.pdf

kinda glad I'm moving out next year, too many tree hugging hippies moving in from up north. :'(

I dont like it :(.

Lived  here  and  been  riding  the  forest  all  my  life.  Always  take  out  what  I  brought  in.  Always  lived  by  there  rules.  Now  they  want  to  take  it  away  from  us ?  Catch  me  if  you  can. >:D

i still say that 42 miles of no whoops is better than 1558 miles of those stupid things. i have already said that i am over riding those stinking whoops anyway so if they will maintain the 42 miles i will be happy. if not, i will stick to the tracks and out of state riding ;D durhamtown here i come

I sure hope you guys Like Racing,Before long thats all we are goin to have!!!

I'm not even going to say what my feelings are about all this, mainly because the mods will delete half of what I say because it definately wont be appropriate for a G site, lol... but I will say this:

By allowing them to keep closing off riding areas and just sitting back and taking it... we might as well just say goodbye to all riding besides on a track because that is definately what it's coming down to. Oh well, the ATV community is obviously getting pretty good at just laying back and taking it in the azz. Sorry for the expression, but I'm pissed off.

First they ban night riding - we let that happen
Now they minimize the riding area to truely next to nothing when you consider how many people ride... and of course we're letting that happen to... Nice, real nice.  :cursing.gif :banghead.gif  :F

Look at an the forest on google earth. You dont see any atv trails but you can sure see where "they" let them cut down all the trees. They also admit that the "damage" is caused because of the lack of riding areas. No chit, so open up some more areas and take off some of the pressure.

Well, they do say that there is time to appeal.... but I dont see the ATV community growing big enough balls to do something like that

When they say 42 miles of AT use, Is that 42 square miles??

well, heres the map of the proposed trails.  most of them are in the far north of the forest which sucks for me, and there is a couples miles in the southeast.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/florida/projects/documents/nepa/oca%20access/EIS_altd_map.pdf


By the way, Good Luck trying to appeal.

"Only individuals or organizations who submitted substantive comments during the comment period may appeal."

I got to thinking, I have not read anything that mentions One-Way trails. If these trails are not 1way, I will not be riding. Restricting that many quads to that few 2way trails can only lead to disaster. SCREW what I said about not complaining and just be happy with what he have, the more I read, the more it makes me mad. And I guess Big Scrub is gone. I don't see any campgrounds for riding now

Is there no "formal" organization dedicated to protecting the rights of ATVers such as keeping riding land open as well as opening up new areas?

I guess Big Scrub is out of the picture. Not even marked as a trailhead or any thing at all. The entire area is West of 19 around Delancey area. Is a nice area to ride, but not enough trails marked. Also ATV/MC trails are red and green and they interconnected with black dotted trail. According to the map these are unsurfaced roads for mixed use. Are with allowed to ride on those roads? Anybody knows. Because if not it s***s.

Currently the only ares affected by this decision is the area in WHITE on the map.  The other areas are still unrestriicted and as such, no changes have been made to those areas.  That means that at the present time no changes have been made to the Big Scrub area.  The new trail system is only in the area north of Hwy 316, East  and South of the Ocklawaha River and west of Hwy 19.  These trails (pending no appeals will be started in May 2006.  This will include Trailheads for parking, bathrooms at the trailheads, marked and maintained trails. They should be done by August.

Saying that, you can expect that once this system is in effect, the Forestry Service will be looking at the areas in yellow on the map and deciding what to do in these areas.  This may mean temporay closings of areas and temporary trails in certain areas.  Their is not contemplation of closing Big Scrub.  However,  there has been damage to the environment in this area, and when they come up with a trail system for that area, this willbe taken into consideration.

What I am telling you is as a result of a 4 hour meeting I attended today with Bret Bush, the head of this project.

Thanks for the information G. B.

i say we have a large group ride to check out the new trail system, that is if the trails have been dewhooped. lets flood the trail with riders.

jeff

I guess they  need create more atv private owner parks like what they do
up north.I guess alot people are doing that. ;)

I'm with Dreth on this one, the whoops suck and they destroy our machines. Please note the numerous references in the Plan to periodically re-evaluate the trails. They're suggesting that if environmental damage continues and unauthorized areas/trail use violations continue, they'll close more areas/trails. So, I say let's prove them wrong by obeying the rules while constantly asking for more trails. It's a hobby for 99.9% of us, not a source of income. So, don't ruin it for us all.

Grizzly, from what I see on the map, the WHITE area is unrestricted, it says nothing of the yellow area.

It says nothing of the white area.  If you check the legend on the right, the colored(close to yellow) is unrestricted.

Not to sound like a thingy but its a 4-wheeler not a daily driver if your worried about your machine than maybe keep it in the garage and not ride it,These machines are designed for this type of conditions,You said it best its a hobby,Myself Personally  More than likely will not Ride ONF when this Go's into Full Swing,Scrub is bad enough with the whoops and people being idiots,Now Take away the whoops put all of them on One trail system,What do you GET?? a Bunch Of Morons Hauling Azz in Every Direction W/ you and your Kids,Love ones and Family STUCK in the MIDLE OF IT!! FATALITY CITY IMO

Maybe when they are done using that huge bombing range one day we could claim that place for off road vehicles? Bet they have the nicest hills in all FL in there ;)

The Ocala Star Banner and THe ORlando Sentinel should have the ad out in Saturdays paper.  Everyone is jumping the gun on this.  I know one of the rangers that works the scrub area and she says the initial trails are just that.  There will eventually be 140 miles of trails throughout the forest but initially they will be in the Delancy area and in the Paisely area.  They have to start somewhere and they know it will be a slow process but the trail system will expand.  They are really determined to provide trails for us but it will take time.  She said they have had tons of input from atv/jeep folks and this was the agreed upon option by those who were involved.

The trails will be one direction- so no more head on collisions.

Thats not true the trails will be 2 way. What stinks is that ATVers want challenges: mud, water, hills, some kind of obsticles. Riding on a trail through the woods is OK but it gets boring if there is no fun destinations.

UMMM ...What about all the unexploded ordinance???? NO THANKXXXX!!!!

LOL, true but I hope some of the new trails at least lead us to some clay pits or something fun.

They will be one way trails-except for the people who screw up and go the wrong way.

One of the things that stinks is that apparently only Rodman pit will be open-no other pits- and it already gets nuts in there. 

I am kinda surprised Eureka Dam is not listed as a trailhead. That is a great place to ride out from. It seems like they are really trying to keep riders away from any water and wetlands if you look at the map.

Where do you get that info from. Its not what I was told.

I'm with Chillin on this!! Also how would that Regulate that? i dont see the State hiring a 100 or morepeople to patrol everyday,What if you quad brakes,Run out of Gas,Wreck or something of that nature? now you have to go another 130 miles ir whatever it maybe before your back at your truck or car?

The rangers at Scrub told us when we were there at Thanksgving. 

It seems like everyone is hashing out old stuff here. The trail system is going in no matter what. If it is 20 miles of trails or 100 miles of trails, perhaps were lucky there is trails at all. I get the feeling from reading the record of decision that they can still close the forest at anytime, that will always be on the table. I also get the feeling from the rangers, etc.. that they really don't want this system to work.. The trail system has worked out west in Idaho. In California they closed all the trail systems and ran off with all the money they collected from licensing the ATV's. In Connecticut I believe they had the trail systems in private parks and forest I think open for two years then just decided to close them all. I get the feeling that is what will happen in Ocala National Forest. After 6 months or a year the forest service will have proof that the system is not working and close the whole forest anyway. So the bottom line is you better enjoy it now..

Come on- do you really think they'd make one big 140 mile trail- you'd never get back even if your quad didn't break or run out of gas.  You need to stop and ask some questions to the rangers.  I've heard a lot of complaints about them but when you stop and talk to them they're pretty cool and are jsut trying to do their jobs.  SOme of them are atv/jeep riders and are volunteers trying to get everyone to play fair so the forest stays open.

The trails will be 2 way.  The reason the Eureka pit is not mentioned in the report is that it is not part of the ONF.  It is Greenway land and not under their control.  The Forestry service has provided a multi=usr trail across the road and is hoping the greenway people will leave the pit open to riders.

Sounds pretty crappy. Sorry to say but you will never be able to regulate everyone to one trail system. Even if they did, it would just be a solid line of quads. No one would ever have fun except the ones who like to putt. The forest is soo big that they will NEVER be able to regulate to one trail. Even if they close down people will still take off into the woods where ever they desire. Will I? Probably. Constricting to one trail system is rediculous.

Ok, well my question is then is it gonna be just one trail straight through? Will there be pits along the trail? Will there be side trails? I mean come on a 2 way trail and its the only one you can ride. Hmmm you get someone haulin it in say 3rd or 4th gear come along then you get some drunk redneck no helmet on a ute with the 12 pack on the rack haulin the opposite direction......hmmm you fill in the blanks. Sorry but i dont think i will ride it because i DONT want to become a STATISTIC.

So in other words, we will have a "allotted amount" of acreage we can ride on? If it wont be one straight loop then where will the other trails lead to?Wow speed limits? Might as well buy an enduro bike, same concept isnt it? They gonna have "fuzz" out there behind blinds with radar guns? Sorry to say but they will never be able to keep it all contained to one trail. May as well sell my bike now to some sucker who will find out the hard way in a few years that there is no where to ride. Will the hunters still have "free reign" of the woods with their trucks when they hunt?

PS: I am not trying to degrade you for your actions, as you are tryin to do all you can to get us places to ride im just doing a lil Q and A.

Ok well i guess i will just have to wait and see what its like then. Will the hunters still have "free reign" of the woods with their trucks when they hunt?

Everyone has a "right" to the forest...I for one find it awesome we have a place this huge to play in.On the other hand I would Like (some) state interaction.For safety and piece of mind.

We go ride waaaaay down from Big Scrub on the power lines.No way in heck you will find me or my buddies up in that disaster of an area.The whoops are outta control.They take the fun out of getting to the fun parts.Some ehwoops are cool but holy crap 10 miles of the stuff is stupid.

Next, The forest is far too large to control.Yes you might get caught for runnig on a numbered road but rarely will you get in trouble...think about it.We go out in the side trails and take off...almost never see anyone else.You think a patrol or trail closure is goona effect that?..doubtful.

The only way you are gonna control people out there is to be where they park their vehicles...Set the rules right there so everyone knows.This makes it bearable and realistic.

Plus, how much money do you think the Florida is gonna pump into this...Cops an such are expensive as is the upkeep and maintence of the trail "system"....good and bad to that one I guess.

Very well said, ok so pretty much its gonna be say an 8 foot wide trail or so? Im not complaining about hunters as i am one, but i was wondering if they had to stay on this trail also.

Hondaxrl is right.  Both he and I volunteer. It has been our mission to make as many people aware of what is going on as possible.  We are open to suggestions. This is a good forum to tell us how we can do it better .

I have a ?. In the map the black dotted lines that interconnected the new ATV/MC proposed trails. Are we allowed to ride in there?. I think the map says is for multiple use. Can you guys explain OHV Volunteers since you guys are involved and providing good info to all of us. All I have to say is that we need to follow the rules so they can open more areas for riding. If we break the rules that is going to lead us nowhere.

Hey, you were right after all.  I called the ranger district this morning and the ranger said the trails will be "non-directional", not one directional- meaning 2 way traffic.  Sorry 'bout that- I sure don't want to spread the wrong info.

absolutely,,,I'm game, and with that few miles on the trails, I can do it on one tank of gas.

Id@

I'm so mad about the whole thing that I would have to delete my own posts after making them.

if the trails are going to be well groomed, then great.

if the trails are going to be one way, then even better.

if the trails are eventually going to go close by the neighborhoods where people have been riding out of their yards for decades,,,,absofreakinglutely great.

but I doubt that any of the three will be.

ID@

i dont like the idea of the trail system, but its coming and nothing will stop it. so we might as well embrace it and when the forest guys see how crowded it is then maybe they will start planning to expand it.

jeff

                                    RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

Rodman Pit is the ONLY legal pit to ride in anywhere in ONF.

Can you say revenue funding? From guys who go off-trail and say "Catch me if you can?"

one more comment on this, hatfield- mccoy is a trail system and ive only heard good things about it. while ocala cant match its scenery or terrain it still can be a great place to ride. when they expand the system it wont be so bad. it will be a rough start though, and our best option for this part of the state.

jeff

This trail system, due to be done in August? Are we allowed to ride as we have been till it's completion. Or rather as per the new forest map till Aug.? Also I can only imagine the amount of "runner's" who will disreguard the new limitation's and ride as they have for years. I will try the best I can to go out there as much as possible before the trail system is in. I hope this turns out good and we expand from there. Two way trail's are gonna be a bit dangerous for the little ones, with the three baller WFO club blazing around every corner. If we start killing eachother due to overcrouding that would suck.  I suggest we group ride like every weekend on some scale before the time to do so is gone. There's is plenty of forest I have yet to see and some I will miiss in the future.

I agree, give it a chance because it's going to happen. If all we do is b***h about it then what reason would they have to not shut it down completely. If everybody will follow the ''RULES'' maybe it will go the other direction and more trails will be open. We will have more of a chance if some responsibility and respect is shown. It's obvious that they will shut trails down if people continue to have the attitude that they can do and go where they what to and say the h3ll with the rangers. It's getting down to the last resource we have and personally I would rather have less than none. Yea it sucks but it can always be worse. Maybe it time for some constructive critisizm to ensure our riding area stays open no matter how many miles of trails it is.

I'm going ther this weekend(Big Scrub) and will be investigating the situation very closely. I will be videotaping any encounters with the Rangers for Public Record, I will also be actively searching for trail maps at the rangers station. I will also be asking the Rangers for written documentation of the new rules. All of this will hopefully give me a better understanding of the rules so as to abide by them to the best of my ability.

you will find a map at the ranger station but not of the trail system. The only documentation on rules is the ones they have been handing out for years. Take a video camera on the rangers, they are probably not rangers but volunteers.

Until the designated trails are completed it has to be dispearsed use.  How else are you going to know where to ride.  They've been trying to finish the designated trails in Big Cypress for a couple years now but are no where close to finishing it.  The same could happen in Ocala.  I just hope they don't put in the hard rock trails in Ocala like they are doing in Big Cypress.  It sucks.....

All I can say is,"Look out for disaster!" I see people get airlifted out of Croom because it's whooped out and because it's a small area for too many riders. This does not look like a good thing to me. I was gonna buy a YFZ...not so sure now!!
  They don't maintain the forest anywhere that I know of. It won't be long until it's whooped out and dangerous too. I think everybody should really, come together, alert the media, and show up somewhere at the same time and rally for our rights!!
  I will be there as well as everyone I ride with.

  Chino(727)204-0883  Call me when your ready...actions speak louder than words!!

Bump

Went to ONF yesterday and there were more trails closed and a pit we usually go to south of 40. Still got a 65 mile ride in. We didn't go north of 314 though so don't know what's going on in that area.

Thanks for the update