Looking for some input on legal situation civil and criminal

[buythisatvstuff]

I have a friend that was at a local bar recently with some other friends. As he walked out (first one of the group) he was hit from behind in the back of the head. He's a pretty big guy, but that strike to the base of the skull sent him down. He was out enough to have not been able, or conscious enough, to put his hands out to break his fall. He hit face first, and hard. He suffered a broken orbital, broken jaw ( 2 places), the bone under his nose was broken, a bone near his ear was broken, and one or two other small bones in his face were broken. There was no argument or confrontation before this. He had never seen the guy before. After he was struck some witnesses called the cops. When they showed up the guy that hit him was laying in a pool of his own blood (perhaps at the hands of the rest of my friends party, but I wouldn't point fingers). They both went to the hospital. The cops didn't arrest either as they had no idea what happened and assumed it was some sort of mutual bar fight scenario. turns out some people from a near buy business told the cops exactly what happened - that my friend walked out and got sucker punched from behind. So now the have talked to my friend and said they are filing charges. The officer told him that it is only a misdemeanor battery since the strike didn't cause significant damage or harm, and that all the broken bones were from him falling so that it didn't qualify for an agg. battery charge (felony). Now obviously my friend would never have fallen flat on his face on the concrete had he not been KO'd from behind.
first question from LEO's or attorneys - is it or is it not a felony agg battery in this case ?
Since this incident we have learned who the guy is. He is an EMT for a private company and is trying to get on with the county. Also turns out that he lives not too far from my friend and even knows some of the same people through extended networks. He has since stated that he just wants to drop it and get on with his career/life.
Given the unprovoked attack and the severity of injury, I would assume he can go after the guy in a civil suit as well as the criminal one. He is a young guy that lives at home. can his parents be held responsible in any way since he lives there and has nothing of his own to attach ?
And can the bar they were at be held responsible since it was on their walk - just outside the front door, where my friend was attacked ? He literally got a step out the door and was hit. The guy says he doesn't remember why he even did it.
Anoriginal ? any other LEO or attorneys ? input ?

[trx#9]

The bar is the one to go after, their responsible for your safety and also should have adequate insurance.

[buythisatvstuff]

That's kind of what I thought but if possible I would go after him and his parents as well. If nothing else he should be able to go after the guy that hit him and get a judgement against him. He may never collect, but it could give the guy a headache in the future. However I'm no lawyer.........but I did play one on TV 

[lugnuts]

The bar is the one to go after, their responsible for your safety and also should have adequate insurance.

[IXIswamperIXI]

That was a bad situation, I hope all is well!!  But don't go after the bar, that changes nothing to the person who hit him.  I know I am going to get grief over this but that is not right in my book, going after the bar that is.  I was just raised different.  Again I wish him well!  Good luck!

[renmus]

That was a bad situation, I hope all is well!!  But don't go after the bar, that changes nothing to the person who hit him.  I know I am going to get grief over this but that is not right in my book, going after the bar that is.  I was just raised different.  Again I wish him well!  Good luck!

No grief from me.  The trip to the deepest pocket is not for justice, just greed.  Hate it that the perp is a young guy who made a mistake, but HE made the mistake if the story we got is correct.  Coming at someone from behind is cowardly.   Let him man up finally and take full responsibiility.

[buythisatvstuff]

I see what you're saying about just going to deep pockets, but seems I've heard something about having a reasonable assumption of safety    If so they didn't live up to it. And in this case the actual criminal has nothing to get. My buddy now has tons of hospital bills, is out of work, etc. I'm not saying it's the best thing, just wondering if it's even an option in this terrible set of circumstances.

[trx#9]

This is why the bar is required to have sufficient insurance, $hit sometimes you gotta do what it takes to survive.

[asmart82]

I'm no lawyer or LEO but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I say TP the parents house! 

[gearhead400]

How was the bar suppose to stop a guy from sucker punching a guy in the back of the head, on the way out, when there was no arguing or confrontation prior to the act? I definitely understand the need to get your medical bills paid. If that bar loses their insurance for this and can't pick anyone else up and goes under, man i'd feel terrible. I'd rather go after the guy and if all else fails, stalk his ass for about 2 weeks and hit him when the time is right. Sucks about your friend, hope he heals up quick.

[IXIswamperIXI]

How was the bar suppose to stop a guy from sucker punching a guy in the back of the head, on the way out, when there was no arguing or confrontation prior to the act? I definitely understand the need to get your medical bills paid. If that bar loses their insurance for this and can't pick anyone else up and goes under, man i'd feel terrible. I'd rather go after the guy and if all else fails, stalk his ass for about 2 weeks and hit him when the time is right. Sucks about your friend, hope he heals up quick.

x2 Your friend deserves compensation for sure!!!  I just don't know how the legal system works at all  That punk @$$ is the one that needs to pay, but there is probley some loop hole where he wont have too     

[Anoriginal]

Sorry I just saw this thread.

He can definitely go after the guy in civil court. There's no doubt about it. Also, his damages with those types of injuries are going to be significant. I think it's something he shoudl definitely look into. Most of these cases can be done on a contingency type basis. He should consult with a local PI attorney in his area.

That same attorney would likely investigate claims against the establishment as well. Depending on prior incidents, security, lighting, how much the guy was served before he hit your friend, etc...there very well could be culpability on the part of the establishment. Again, it bears looking into for sure.

My take? He's definitely got significant claims against the guy that hit him and likely has claims against the bar as well. I'd get to a good PI attorney ASAP while things are still fresh in everyone's heads.

[Mudneck]

I like those kind of bars

[Keeter]

Anoriginal is the man.. do EXACTLY what he says. 

[trx#9]

Definitely wasn't the Pickle, very friendly crowd there. 

[ganny76]

I think he would have a tough time getting any negligence on behalf of the bar.  All they have to do is provide reasonable security.  They cannot and are not required to be everywhere at every momment.  If this guy had no history of this that the bar was aware of, or the bar did not over serve him it will be very difficult.  That said, it would be very expensive for the bar to fight a lawsuit like this and you can find any PI attorney that will take this on a contigency basis and try to get 5-10k out of the bar.  I think what the guy did was wrong, but unless the bar done something wrong, I think he should leave them alone. Just my $.02.

[gearhead400]

After anoriginal's post i would agree the bar might be held responsible if the required amount of lighting wasn't there and the guy was served way too much. I still don't think i'd want to go after the bar but who knows. Those are good points.

[JJChomp]

I went through this same situation right after college in 1992. Standing in a bar and got sucker punched, well got hit from behind with a bar glass by a coked up dude who thought I was someone else. 350 stitches and 2 days in the hospital later, i drove home. Guy was caught. He was out on bail from another attack when he hit someone over the head with a glass pitcher. No attorney wanted to touch it. Not enough money from the defendant and the bar wasn't liable because there were bouncers and security, they just didn't get this guy before he hit me. They only have to provide reasonable security as this was not a bar where this sort of thing happens. Guy was convicted of agg assault and I was compensated by his paying restitution. Took him 10 yrs to pay me off.

That being said we have a lot more weasel attorneys that will take this type of case, but if the police aren't pushing for ag assault, i don't think this would go very far.

J

[Chillinthemost]

There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.  If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised. 
  This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.

[trx#9]

There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.  If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised.  
  This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.

If your attorney is a moderator in the politics section becareful if he hands you a beer, he has a habit of slipping a roofy in it.  

[Anoriginal]

There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.  If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised. 
  This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.

If your attorney is a moderator in the politics section because careful if he hands you a beer, he has a habit of slipping a ruefy in it. 

That's why he drinks with me.

Chillin's always trying to get me drunk and take advantage of me.

[digginfool]

There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.  If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised. 
  This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.

Don't be so sure of that.  I have seen people get drunk and decide they're going after the 'big guy' (hey guys! watch this!  I'm gonna knock the big guy out.  Got my back?).  It happens a hell of a lot more times than most people would believe.  When I was younger, I knew two brothers who were just little guys with big mouths.  But, they always hung around the big rednecks from West Melbourne.  Their favorite stunt was to start a fight with a guy inside the bar, lure the guy outside to finish it where all their buddies were waiting to stomp the crap out of the unsuspecting slob(s).  All kinds of idiots out there.

[Keeter]

There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.  If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised. 
  This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.

If your attorney is a moderator in the politics section because careful if he hands you a beer, he has a habit of slipping a ruefy in it. 

That's why he drinks with me.

Chillin's always trying to get me drunk and take advantage of me.

HaHa, now that is funny. The imagery is scary.   

[buythisatvstuff]

Yes, there is always another side to a given story, but to assume my friend is lying about the facts of what happened without ever meeting him is kind of presumptuous don't ya think ? Usually the different stories give different perspectives tainted by a bias perspective. In this case it would be outright lying about the clear cut facts. saying we never met, spoke, argued etc. is a little different that he called me "x" when the other guy says he called him "z". I don't have a police report on the situation, but when a third party provides comments that the guy said he doesn't recall why he did it seems to suggest that my friend's account is accurate.

And be sure to brush up on your knowledge of Fl. statutes before drinking with that particular lawyer buddy or he'll just convince you that him forcing you to participate in certain acts is indeed legal, and he will in fact file suit against you if you don't please him in a timely manner. At least that's what Trx said was done to him 

[Anoriginal]

Speaking of which....Erik!!!!! You're late for todays' "appointment".

Bring a breath mint. You're gonna need it.

[trx#9]

Speaking of which....Erik!!!!! You're late for todays' "appointment".

Bring a breath mint. You're gonna need it.

Sorry I loss my watch the last time, that was quite painful for ya!

[buythisatvstuff]

Speaking of which....Erik!!!!! You're late for todays' "appointment".

Bring a breath mint. You're gonna need it.

Sorry I loss my watch the last time, that was quite painful for ya!

LMAO talk about "passing time"   

[trx#9]

Speaking of which....Erik!!!!! You're late for todays' "appointment".

Bring a breath mint. You're gonna need it.

Sorry I loss my watch the last time, that was quite painful for ya!

LMAO talk about "passing time"   

[stonny9]

Well if the kid is trying to be a firefighter/EMT/Paramedic he will never get hired with an assault charge on his record at least anytime within the next 5 years.  Depts look at everything including your credit rating.  I am trying to get hired right now on any dept I can.  No assault charges just a bad economy.

Are their any possible long term effects from the damage?
With that said maybe ur friend can make a out of court plea deal for $$$$$ if he can/will drop the charges and/or make an anonymous phone call to his work.  where and who does he work for?  American Ambulance, Medics, American Medical Response are the major ones in SE FL.

I dont see how it can be agg assault.  The hit directly lead to the injuries.  Thats like saying someone driving intoxicated hit someone and left the scene and the person died.  They wont just be charged with the hit and run/leaving the scene.  The prosecutor will press for charges of at least manslaughter or something to that effect.

[buythisatvstuff]

They say no long term effects. I forgot which company he works for but I can get the name again. He works in HIllsborough county. His name is "Bubba" Nicholas Stocco (I think that's correct spelling).

[stonny9]

They say no long term effects. I forgot which company he works for but I can get the name again. He works in HIllsborough county. His name is "Bubba" Nicholas Stocco (I think that's correct spelling).

Sorry that is a few counties away from where I am at in Broward.  Me personally I would go after him through the court and seek restitution.  I called the cops on my best friend cause he got drunk and took my phone and was being an a-hole and wouldnt give it back.  $200 phone.  I was gonna have him arrested but his did came along with the cops and got him to give me the phone so his dad could take him home.  He is 6'5" 260lbs and I am 5'11" 140lbs.  Dont do the crime if u dont want to do the time. 

[asmart82]

I simple Google search of Bubba Nicholas Stocco or EMT Nicholas Stocco provides a Myspace page.  Even has his AIM screen name! And lastly, American Medical Response as an employer!

[cybercop106]

Sorry, haven't been around for a while. Just saw this thread.

The perp can be charged with 1st degree Misdemeanor  "Battery".
FL law is different from MO (where I did 2 decades of law enforcement) and a little weird.....
It's not Felony Battery unless the guy has a prior related conviction, or Agg Assault (a Felony)
because FL law says "with intent" to commit a felony OR "uses a deadly weapon".
Even IF your friend DID have some kind of confrontation with the guy, when perp struck him
in the back of the head as he was leaving, it pretty much negates any defense......
unless perp says your friend said he was going to go get a weapon and kill him, in which case he 'might'
get off with a self-defense plea.
I hope no-one gives the douche-rocket any ideas like that in defending his actions!!!!

Anyway, 'douche-perp' is PROBABLY out of luck in his "job with the county" aspirations. Most government agencies
prefer employees without a history of violence....... much less drunken violence.......

Now civil law is COMPLETELY different from criminal law. Your friend's injuries were absolutely
caused by the perp and don't have to be "intentional". Your friend can TRY to go after the parents,
but unless the perp is a "minor" under FL law, it won't fly. From what you said he's an adult,
so he's responsible for himself. Same with the bar. Civil law is notoriously screwed up, so he CAN sue the
bar, but it's not going to get anywhere.......... probably. You can file a civil lawsuit against most anyone
for any reason, but to get a jury or a judge to grant you a settlement, it needs to have substance.

Going after the parents or the bar is pretty lame. I know the guy got injured and has bills, but he needs
to go after the real cause and not those on the periphery just because they have money. 

Good luck to your friend. I hope he finds a lawyer who will work on a contingency AND that 'douche-perp'
ends up paying him a bunch of money......... even if it's in installments!!!
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DISCLAIMER - the preceding is simply theoretical musing and should not be construed as actual advice.
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[Anoriginal]

Um....actually..... the most likely source of recovery in this instance is from the bar's insurance company. So, depending on the circumstances; yeah, the suit against the bar is going somewhere.

[cybercop106]

It's possible....... Civil law is pretty iffy. Could go either way depending on the jury.

Since the victim was leaving when it happened, where he was will be important too.
Was he on the sidewalk outside the bar, or was he in the doorway/foyer/etc....?!

But did it really have anything directly to do with the bar, and are they really even partially
responsible? And their insurance company is probably going to be pushing hard for no liability
on their part......... 

So yeah, circumstances ARE everything in that case!

[Anoriginal]

I guess he should probably talk to a civil trial attorney about it. He'd probably know better than anyone. What do you think?

[cybercop106]

Like I said, I hope he can find one who'll do it on a contingency basis. IF an attorney agrees to do that, he's got a pretty good chance of getting a decent settlement from it because they aren't gonna take the case unless there's a very good possibility of winning a substantial amount. 

[550superquad]

There is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.  If your friend was truly innocent and had no words with or ever even met this guy I would be surprised. 
  This is precisely why I drink at home or while accompanied by my attorney.

Don't be so sure of that.  I have seen people get drunk and decide they're going after the 'big guy' (hey guys! watch this!  I'm gonna knock the big guy out.  Got my back?).  It happens a hell of a lot more times than most people would believe.  When I was younger, I knew two brothers who were just little guys with big mouths.  But, they always hung around the big rednecks from West Melbourne.  Their favorite stunt was to start a fight with a guy inside the bar, lure the guy outside to finish it where all their buddies were waiting to stomp the crap out of the unsuspecting slob(s).  All kinds of idiots out there.

are you talkin bout me hangin out at the county line 

[patches206]

CAll 1-800-ASK-GARY

[IXIswamperIXI]

How's your friend doing? 

[buythisatvstuff]

How's your friend doing? 

He's healing up but losing lots of weight since he's on a liquid diet. Jaw wired shut on both sides. Has to carry wire cutters in case he vomits he has to cut them open and open his mouth to prevent choking to death. Other than that he's taking it easy and resting. Not much to do for the broken bones but let them heal considering their locations and they were broken but not shifted out of place. He took the stitches out already. He's just hating life with no real food and not being able to talk normally. Thanks for asking.

[IXIswamperIXI]

That sucks!!!  Well hopefuly it's a speedy recovery! 

[stonny9]

How's your friend doing? 

He's healing up but losing lots of weight since he's on a liquid diet. Jaw wired shut on both sides. Has to carry wire cutters in case he vomits he has to cut them open and open his mouth to prevent choking to death. Other than that he's taking it easy and resting. Not much to do for the broken bones but let them heal considering their locations and they were broken but not shifted out of place. He took the stitches out already. He's just hating life with no real food and not being able to talk normally. Thanks for asking.

On the bright side beer is considered a liquid.