Water 4 Gas

[big-daddy]

When are you going to try a diesel?

Yes, have one build of a 2002 3500 duramax. He should have it install this weekend, but all high output systems need to be fine tune.

[big-daddy]

Thanks BD for the updates

Thanks Tony

[dj_pizzim]

Just a though when tricking the ecu to flow less gas you need to keep up on your mix to ensure the same flow ... also the system will produce less hho when its not warmed up.  My worry is if you solutions folds on you just how lean will you be running the motor .... and how much better mpg's are you getting when you tune for the HHO .... i should be installing a system on a 4 cyl Toyota Camry this weekend and im trying to decide if the tuning will be worth it

[KAW3604x4]

So far Bushwacker's 6.0L Turbo Diesel is getting 9+mpg gains!!!  

[TRX450R_Racer]

Where has Bushwacker been? What happend to the pics?

[big-daddy]

Just a though when tricking the ecu to flow less gas to need to keep up on your mix ... also the system will produce less hho when its not warmed up.  My worry is if you solutions folds on you just how lean will you be running the motor .... and how much better mpg's are you getting when you tune for the HHO .... i should be installing a system on a 4 cyl Toyota Camry this weekend and im trying to decide if the tuning will be worth it

If the generator fail or runs low in fluid which will bring the hydrogen down you will notice a rough idle and lack of power. The new control unit will have a green light when the generator is running just for the reason.

[big-daddy]

So far Bushwacker's 6.0L Turbo Diesel is getting 9+mpg gains!!!  

Thats just the beginning, wait till he fine tunes the generator.

[KAW3604x4]

Where has Bushwacker been? What happend to the pics?

When you are criticized enough, what's the point in sharing?

[Mudneck]

Richy Rich, check the mpg results @ home Once I drive to & from RR this weekend loaded up I will post some results.

[TRX450R_Racer]

You can't take the nay sayers personally. Just ignore them. I want to see those pics again.

I will give everyone the philosophy I live by and if you live by it life will be better.

If you realize that 95% of people are either stupid, inconsiderate, retards or just plain buttholes, life gets better.

I don't expect anything good from people I don't know so when the inedible happens I'm not dissappointed or surprised. If something positive happens it's a bonus.

[dj_pizzim]

Just a though when tricking the ecu to flow less gas to need to keep up on your mix ... also the system will produce less hho when its not warmed up.  My worry is if you solutions folds on you just how lean will you be running the motor .... and how much better mpg's are you getting when you tune for the HHO .... i should be installing a system on a 4 cyl Toyota Camry this weekend and im trying to decide if the tuning will be worth it

If the generator fail or runs low in fluid which will bring the hydrogen down you will notice a rough idle and lack of power. The new control unit will have a green light when the generator is running just for the reason.

When you say running do you mean simply knowing is power is going to it or are you planning on using a flow meter? The rough idle and lack of power are obvious but im wondering just how lean are you running it. Im thinking long term ... like should you be starting the system before starting the car to allow it to start actually producing, is a flow meter needed to know when the production starts to drop ect

[big-daddy]

I,m check amps going into the unit to check effective, light comes on at 10 amps. Again that after you fine tune the generator.

[JackL]

Damn Big Daddy, you are the man.

After reading all about circuits and other ways to modify the ECU I have decided to go this route:

http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/

I almost laughed my azz off when I saw this rom emulator is supported for my 93 ECU. http://secure.transtronics.com/osc/product_info.php/cPath/56/products_id/329

I have one somewhere with my old time C-band satellite programming crap and a really old 27Cxx series eprom programmer plus a homemade UV eraser with about 50 hips that fit in the ECU. The PC that runs that stuff is a 286sx16 if that tells you how old it is. After reading up on the programming set it looks like a piece of cake to mod the computer for HHO and some more MPG at any rate.

http://www.geocities.com/ecmguy.geo/bruce/prog_101.html

I can't believe it is a Motorola 6803. My first computer was based on the 6809 and coding with it was a breeze.

All in all, I have to say the blower guy was right to some extent. A proper modification of the computer is certainly going to get you more MPG, but with the above procedure you could easily lean out the motor and melt the heads as easily as a potentiometer on the O2 sensor feedback. I do believe modifying the ECU at the rom level is the way to go for maximum MPG and power with or without the HHO gas.

Thanks to Yunt and everyone who contributed to this thread.

[Chevy1500z71]

ok, now im very interested in this but i will be tunning my truck anyways so i need to know what to tune for for this stuff.

what EXACTLY is this doing, what fuel exactly are we making hear and what is the ideal air fuel ratio for it, same as gas or no?

[JackL]

ok, now im very interested in this but i will be tunning my truck anyways so i need to know what to tune for for this stuff.

what EXACTLY is this doing, what fuel exactly are we making hear and what is the ideal air fuel ratio for it, same as gas or no?

From what I have read it is around 15.2 to 1 and sometimes even higher using the HHO. Supposedly it also causes combustion process to be cooler allowing an even leaner air fuel mixture. Personally I am just going to lean out my AF mix a bit at a time until it gets too hot. I am also going to try and get more advance than stock. I'm not sure what other parameters will be good for mileage you can change. I am going to see if someone has written a book Not to much on the web that I can find about actual parameters. I guess when someone does a bunch of trial and error it is for money, and they aren't giving it out for free.

One look at this screen shot will make you realise the potential of this software for coming up with the perfect programming for your specific vehicle in short order. Along with a pyrometer on the exhaust you should be able to get the very last MPG out of the motor safely in no time. Mind you, I am very new at this and still learning. If I melt my motor or fry my ECU it is no loss to me at all.

On one truck forum I was reading people are claiming 50HP and 4MPG increases with keyboard only ECU modifications on similar vehicles to mine. With an exhaust I could potentially see 21 MPG without even building the hydrogen gas generator if I can get the hang of this I think. It is an interesting project at any rate. I have thought about that computer many times through the years but never bothered to look it up.

[Chevy1500z71]

this is definitly something i will be doing... ill just let you do all the trial and error

but i need to get my truck tuned to run good normally first then ill definitely start playing around with that stuff, of course i will have to do a tone more reading on the subject and get a bit more educated on it first tho... just tunning my truck in general is going to be a real pain in the ass and iv been doing tons of reading on the subject for months and it still gives me a headache thinking about it...

[big-daddy]

Dont waste your money heres the plans
 



People if you dont know what this is, then its over your head and look for help in building one.

[dj_pizzim]

Well i understrood some of it but back to my original questions.  From my understanding you are simply trick the ecu to believe you have the correct a/f ratio when you really dont.  It appears that you are just lowering the needed ratio a normal rpms ... where my concern come into play is higher rpms .... The motor will think it has the correct a/f mix and the generator wont be keeping up the the now greater demand those causing the engine to run lean .... scorched cylinders, melted heads, blah, blah, blah

Thats why im thinking letting the ecu make the minor changed that it can and be happy with those improvements is the way to go ..... Am i missing something 

[Chevy1500z71]

the only way you can really know for sure is to know the exact AFR that its supposed to have and tune with a wide band 02 sensor. the stock narrow band 02 sensor isn't really that accurate and i wouldn't trust it. however all these little ways of tricking the ecu will work, i wouldnt do it, but thats just me.

but remember, i have to do all the tunning stuff anyways, so why would i want to trick a tune that i tuned? lol. if your truck is bone stock than i guess doing the tricking the ecu deal wouldn't be to bad but i wouldn't feel to comfortable about it is all

[big-daddy]

The Diagram has a voltmeter so you can see true voltage coming from the oxy sensor and then make the adjustments. Simple and cheap


PS I just put 170 miles on the Jeep city and highway average MPG was 20.5. Not bad for a Jeep with 4:88 gears on 35 tires.

[JackL]

Yesterday I replaced my dead O2 sensor and cleaned up the frozen EGR. I also replaced the air cleaner and plugs. My mileage went from 13 to 18 already (verified by GPS). It feels exactly the same as far as driveability and power..?

On Tuesday I am going to burn the first of what I am sure will be many proms.... Optimum setting are probably not as easy to find as I initially thought, but it is certainly doable and peoples results are nothing to laugh at.

I found what might be the best site for anyone thinking of taking this route: http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/ After an hour of reading over there I have a basic understanding of how the different settings interact with each other and what can help as well as hurt. I'm sure I will be making many posts there.

Here is a super easy circuit anyone can build that should prove very useful for anyone trying to gauge the true performance of HHO or making ECU mods.



Everything you wanted to know about diagnostic and logging software, along with some cables you can buy instead of build. http://www.aldlcable.com/

All in all, what I have learned so far is before you think about anything related to mileage, stick a paperclip in that there magical connector, read the trouble codes and fix all the problems you find before wasting your time on anything else. I have no doubt my 8,000lb 350 powered 4x4 will see 25+ MPG on the highway without adding a hydrogen generator or anything aftermarket. I can only imagine what an open element aircleaner, headers and a new freeflowing exhaust would add.  Maybe with the money I save on gas I can afford it.

Again, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

[JackL]

Dont waste your money heres the plans
 



People if you dont know what this is, then its over your head and look for help in building one.

That schematic is pretty much worthless without the accompanying notes. How about the link to where it came from?

I would suggest installing this: http://www.atlanticspeed.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3852&idcategory=0 to anyone attempting that sort of modification.

I can't see why anyone would want to bother with something like that when the ECU is already in place and is just itching to do what you tell it..? Dang, next I will be pushing superchargers up in here.

[big-daddy]

How would that work went water flow thru the exhaust and lowers your exhaust temp? I have water dripping from my exhaust.

The oxy sensor is reading the oxy count from the exhaust all ready and its easier just to read the voltage from the sensor. I personal do not want to have my laptop connected to my car as I drive to make the adjustment's. You cant burn a program into the factory chip so the laptop does the same thing my box does without the fancy screen. If you plan to reprogram the ECU by burning your own chip, better make sure that your chip in the ECU is removable. 

Oh; take the schematic to radio shack, maybe they can help you get the parts need to build it. After you have them call me or come over the shop. 

[eldiablo64]

I was checking out http://www.mpgaccelerator.com/ and according to them you don't have to do all that technical crap.

[JackL]

How would that work went water flow thru the exhaust and lowers your exhaust temp? I have water dripping from my exhaust.

I would install the bung as close to the head as possible. I just drilled and welded one into the exhaust manifold of my buddies 'hot rod' turbo Ford Focus exhaust manifold with no problem. Unless that water is coming from a cracked block or head it isn't going to interfere with anything. Your water is actually a byproduct of combustion, and just superheated gasses until they condenses in the muffler and drip out the tail pipe.  If I were playing with the AF ratio on a $30,000 rig I would consider a way to make sure I wasn't melting the block on the highway a necessity.

The oxy sensor is reading the oxy count from the exhaust all ready and its easier just to read the voltage from the sensor. I personal do not want to have my laptop connected to my car as I drive to make the adjustment's. You cant burn a program into the factory chip so the laptop does the same thing my box does without the fancy screen. If you plan to reprogram the ECU by burning your own chip, better make sure that your chip in the ECU is removable.  

My vehicle is ODB1, I have no choice but to log the data, copy/modify the stock bin and burn it to a prom. heck, I could skip the logging part but I think it would take years to find a nice set of parameters. Fortunately I have hundreds of 27C128,256 and 512 eproms from the big dish days along with an eraser and burner. I wish I could access the ECU programming through the connector, but on the other hand my style system is very well  documented and thousands of people are already doing ECU tuning and post about it like crazy on a few forums, plus I already have a working knowledge of the ECU's processor and architecture. Another nice incentive besides my personal MPG is two different performance mechanics I know are interested in someone being able to modify parameters for these 85-95 computers in house without having to send data logs out and swap chips three or four times to get what they want. I can almost smell money to be made with this knowledge.
 [/quote]

Oh; take the schematic to radio shack, maybe they can help you get the parts need to build it. After you have them call me or come over the shop.  

I already have everything to build this circuit in my junkbox except the MOSFET. If you can find a tard at Rat Shack that could tell the difference between a capacitor, diode or resistor by looking at them I would be seriously surprised, symbols on a schematic...HAHAHAHAAH..They have trouble with batteries these days.

I have no intention of building this circuit, but I would like to read the theory of operation and the designers notes. It looks very easy to construct and could possibly help many people who are interested in this route but aren't an EE. As of now we don't know how to determine the proper value for R8, or even how to connect this to a vehicles ECM or test for proper operation.

Lets see the link that this device originates from, if only to credit the designer.