Some Good News, Some Bad News

[digginfool]

I drafted a rather long letter to the FWC some weeks ago in response to the closing of the Holeylands/Rotenberger/Francis Taylor WMAs.  I just received a response from Chuck Collins that included a link to a draft copy of what will become the FWC's official policy of dealing with ORV use in the WMAs.  It appears that they have used many of the policies that we have suggested (such as revocable permits, increased enforcement, possible use of other lands).  The tone of the draft, in my interpretation, sends a message that the future of ORV use will be considerably more restrictive than what has been allowed to date.  The language clearly states that those who have been abusive to the lands and irresponsible in their riding habits are to blame for the loss (as well as future losses) of riding privileges.  The good news: FWC will address the lack of areas that allow recreational use of ORVs.  There are no guarantees but at least the intent has been shown.  Bad news:  Holeylands is gone forever for recreational ATV use.  The official stance is that the land cannot support the numbers of vehicles using the marsh; it cannot repair itself fast enough.  Track vehicles and buggies have been allowed to continue to use the land because their primary use is transportation from point-to-point rather than endless, all day traverse of the land, which has created the vast mud bogs and exposed soil, which leads to degradation of the habitat.  The FWC has a mandated duty to protect the habitat of the lands it owns or manages. 

So, here is the link.  Read through the draft and see where the FWC is going in regards to ORV use on FWC lands.  http://myfwc.com/commission/2007/Dec07/Documents/ORVPolicy4C3.pdf


Here are some excerpts of Mr. Collins response that is pertinent to the closure and the reasonings used to rationalize it.

In regards to environmental damage:

"Aerial photographs document the substantial and increasing environmental damage in these WMAs caused by ATVs.  While tracked vehicles have historically used the areas, their use has declined over time (from 500 to 75) and damage is not seen in photos until ATVs began to be used on the areas.  This results from the difference in the vehicles’ construction and manner of use.  Tracked vehicles are built to reduce the amount of pressure per square inch exerted on the driving surface.  Therefore, they are less intrusive on marsh habitat than ATVs.  Tracked vehicles are also used in short periods for hunting or in very small numbers as transportation to camps.  The large numbers of recreational riders in the marsh have resulted in numerous mud bogs some 15 to 20 feet-wide and have severely impacted approximately 3,500 acres

The exposed soil and scars created by ATVs provide an opportunity for exotic plants to gain a foothold in the marsh.  Exposed soil is much more vulnerable to drying and oxidization, and the scars cause unnatural firebreaks and alter patterns of water movement across the landscape.  As you can see, the impacts range far beyond the direct damage."

In regards to the idiots:

"Unsafe conditions continue to be a problem despite concentrated effort by law enforcement officers to curtail excessive speed and other unsafe riding behavior.
Posting and enforcing speed limits as you suggest were one of the techniques used.  FWC wildlife officers spent many hours working on these areas to educate riders about rules.  Officers also issued numerous citations for unsafe riding."


In regards to future efforts to offer lands for recreational ORV use:

"While riding in the Everglades marsh is not sustainable, we are diligently working with the state’s Off-highway Vehicle Advisory Committee to develop OHV riding opportunities.  This Committee, made up of riding enthusiasts, dealers, government agencies and environmental groups, is working on grants to local governments to acquire and develop sustainable and safe riding areas.  The program is administered by the Florida Division of Forestry.  Their website is www.floridaohv.org.  We are also developing a policy to guide the development of riding opportunities on FWC-managed lands.  The draft policy was considered at the December 2007 Commission meeting."

And, finally, a plug to some atv interest websites and commercial vendors:

"You also may wish to visit these web pages to explore other riding opportunities in south Florida:

http://atvflorida.com/where.php
http://www.tires-atv.com/Helpful-ATV-Tires/felda-motorsports-park.htm
http://www.crmotorsportspark.com/
http://www.l-cross.com/"

I think Mr. Collins has demonstrated at least a somewhat positive leaning in regards to our interests but clearly, we are where we are due to the irresponsible actions of the users of the WMAs and the State of Florida's failure to provide those benefits promised by the titling and registration laws that were passed.  If more riding areas were available to the ATV-riding public, the lands where ATV use is allowed would not have to support such large numbers of ATVs and the associated habitat damage that may result.  Let's hope that FWC and the Division of Forestry comes through.  Notice in the draft ORV Policy that these agencies will be looking to rely upon the efforts of volunteers.  Keep that in mind if and when they offer us more riding areas.  Volunteerism is what has made out-of-state riding areas such as Coal Creek and Hatfield-McCoy so successful.  If we want to keep any riding areas offered in the future, we will have to prove, as a community, that we can partner with the State of Florida to be true stewards of the land. 

[VForcedave]

We are extinct, we just are not smart enough to admit it OR our ego's and the amount of money we have poured inito this sport are too big to say screw it. I understand about partnering with the state. Its NOT going to happen. Offroad riding is gone in FLA except in Private/Paid riding areas. While we sit and talk about education, partnering up, be responsible riders, they close another area. There are hundreds of acres being targeted for closure all over the state. Go to Florida Forever Web site and pick a county any county. They have "colored in" their future closures already. Just like the post said, closures create higher traffic and use, in other sensitive and sometimes illegal riding areas. I am sick and tired of the bullshoot. Its all crap. They will never give up anything again, and if they do it will be like riding in a monkey cage. I know I am a azzhole for thinking like this BUT I am right. Say good bye to riding in FLA baby. Even the private riding areas and "hunt clubs" are being pressured and their existance is in question.
Screw it, i will ride illegally untill they peel my cold dead hands off the bars.
 

[Chuck_Norris]

Very Good Post digginfool, Finally a taste of what a few others of us in the association have dealt with daily you could not have said it better

The language clearly states that those who have been abusive to the lands and irresponsible in their riding habits are to blame for the loss (as well as future losses) of riding privileges. 

we are where we are due to the irresponsible actions of the users of the WMAs and the State of Florida's failure to provide those benefits promised by the titling and registration laws that were passed.

This is the reason why we have to shift the attack strategy by generating riding areas like the motoplex that Paul_S ,Dreth and many others  have so diligently done. The support of these efforts that are made towards our sport will promote progress...When this process is successful it will grow to other areas that are not as fortunate to have riding areas. 

[~Demon_Boy250X~]

After HoleyLands is gone i have no where to ride anymore  . I don't feel like driving over an hour to Seminole to ride around a track a bunch of times! I wish some one would make a MotoPlex down here  . Though my dad does plan on buying a few acres nothing big enough to start something like that...

[mudnuri]

What a complete joke.
If you go to mapquest or Google earth and look at all the crazy trails and the sort, yes, that looks weird. But zoom out a little and look at ALL THE FARMS AND HOUSING AND ROADS WTF??? That didn't happen from magic or some supernatural power. There was land there that was pristine forest and land that animals made homes on. THAT was okay to completely destroy, yes, destroy, but making some trails through whats left over from all the farming and developing is bad. (I wish there was a George W icon and I could say something really stupid.)
It is absurd. I appreciate people looking out for nature as I am one of them, but where are these people when the developer has his way with a piece of land. There is no reguard for nature, just dollars.

"we are diligently working with the state’s Off-highway Vehicle Advisory Committee to develop OHV riding opportunities.  This Committee, made up of riding enthusiasts, dealers, government agencies and environmental groups, is working on grants to local governments to acquire and develop sustainable and safe riding areas.  The program is administered by the Florida Division of Forestry.  Their website is www.floridaohv.org.  We are also developing a policy to guide the development of riding opportunities on FWC-managed lands"

This is true and things ARE going to happen. Maybe you can help V-Force, are you willing?

[GrizzlyGator]

We are extinct, we just are not smart enough to admit it OR our ego's and the amount of money we have poured inito this sport are too big to say screw it. I understand about partnering with the state. Its NOT going to happen. Offroad riding is gone in FLA except in Private/Paid riding areas. While we sit and talk about education, partnering up, be responsible riders, they close another area. There are hundreds of acres being targeted for closure all over the state. Go to Florida Forever Web site and pick a county any county. They have "colored in" their future closures already. Just like the post said, closures create higher traffic and use, in other sensitive and sometimes illegal riding areas. I am sick and tired of the bullshoot. Its all crap. They will never give up anything again, and if they do it will be like riding in a monkey cage. I know I am a azzhole for thinking like this BUT I am right. Say good bye to riding in FLA baby. Even the private riding areas and "hunt clubs" are being pressured and their existance is in question.
Screw it, i will ride illegally untill they peel my cold dead hands off the bars.
 

[GrizzlyGator]

I'm guessing like many other appointed "ADVISORY" committee's this one has about as much power to change laws (open up riding area's) than the rest of them  in government....please tell me if I'm wrong here but don't they report to a higher power with there findings and suggestions, and then that higher power probably throws it all in the trash!!! Who ever has the most money or biggest lobbying group gets the votes...I think its great to get involved show your support etc. etc....but untlil we can get a legislator or a big lobby group (ATV MANUFACTURERS) behind us; these little puppet meetings will do nothing for us but to pacify us (keep us quiet) untill it's too late....as it was said in lswjth2'S letter since the meeting in Miami over 1.5 years ago nothing has opend but plenty has "CLOSED" BUT i'M SURE ALL THOSE MEETINGS WENT WELL?

[VForcedave]

I know nothing happens by just bitching about it. I have been to clean up rides, i have joined and voluteered for things like gate duty at the ATV Association deal at L-cross etc etc. Notice the people who busted butt to get that thing cooking went and opened up a For Profit riding area. Good for them. They said screw it. Tyring to organize a ATV/OHV group is like hearding cats. Its NOT going to happen. I am not a negative and pessimistic person, but I have been watching this for a long time. Its over folks. Private and closed riding areas is all that is left for us.
There are hundreds of "pockets" of riding areas across the state that have been used for riding for decades. As the closures continue, other riders show up and then that place is targeted. We all have had one of those places or still do. Do not tell anyone where it is. I have bought a jeep, have property in a "private riding area" and ride illegally somewhere when the FWC is busy chasing and policing poachers and hunting. Thats a freaking shame. Don't come on and say we are setting a bad example for the ATV community.

If I wanted to live in suppresion I could move to any commi country. I am a tax paying American and that land belongs to me just as much as the Bird Watching, Tree Hugging people I pass along the way. Do not discriminate against me for my sport.   

[klutchbuster400]

Guess I oughta sell my quads and buy a street bike. I'm sure if I ride it the same way, They'd prefer quads in an illegal area.
*sarcasm/pun intended*

[digginfool]

I know nothing happens by just bitching about it. I have been to clean up rides, i have joined and voluteered for things like gate duty at the ATV Association deal at L-cross etc etc. Notice the people who busted butt to get that thing cooking went and opened up a For Profit riding area. Good for them. They said screw it. Tyring to organize a ATV/OHV group is like hearding cats. Its NOT going to happen. I am not a negative and pessimistic person, but I have been watching this for a long time. Its over folks. Private and closed riding areas is all that is left for us.
There are hundreds of "pockets" of riding areas across the state that have been used for riding for decades. As the closures continue, other riders show up and then that place is targeted. We all have had one of those places or still do. Do not tell anyone where it is. I have bought a jeep, have property in a "private riding area" and ride illegally somewhere when the FWC is busy chasing and policing poachers and hunting. Thats a freaking shame. Don't come on and say we are setting a bad example for the ATV community.

If I wanted to live in suppresion I could move to any commi country. I am a tax paying American and that land belongs to me just as much as the Bird Watching, Tree Hugging people I pass along the way. Do not discriminate against me for my sport.   

Dave, don't know if you are referring to me about the bad example comment but anybody who has been to the Holey Lands during the last couple of years knows exactly the type of behavior that cost us that riding spot.  I rode out there this past Sunday and watched some jackass on a Suzuki quad ride wheelies up and down the side of the levy.  In the short time he was in view, he nearly hit two different quads that were passing by.  Clearly, in his mind, he was the only person that mattered out there.  I'm also quite sure it never crossed his mind that by riding up and down the side of the levy, tearing up the vegetation that stabilizes the soil, he was doing damage to the levy itself.  That was just one person.  I saw two sport quads with two adults on them travelling on top of the levy way over the 30 mph speed limit (I know because I was going 30 mph in my truck on the north side road and they were leaving me like I was sitting still).  Had to pull to the side as two Banshees blew past us, obviously in a drag race, followed by a half-dozen 4-strokes chasing after them.  Got to the parking area at the bridge just in time to watch another sport quad attempt to jump the road.  It's a damn shame.  Not blaming any single person on this website but the people who have been riding out there must have known it was going to end this way with that type of behavior going on.  Like I always said, the guilty would be the ones crying the loudest.  I would also venture to say that some of you on here are the same people that have behaved this way.  I also know that there are many on here that have respected that area.  Nothing is going to change that now.  The evidence says that it is gone for good.  I have to agree with Anoriginal in that Big Cypress will be next.  There's already enough anecdotal evidence that it will become the next Holey Lands but as Anoriginal said, the NPS will end that party in very short order.  If there is any silver lining in any of this, it is understanding that any attempt to make sweeping changes in an area such as the Holey Lands, you have to clear everybody out first and let the dust settle.  Perhaps, some day, they may just let us back in, although it won't be the wild frontier we are all accustomed to and it won't be free.  That's alright with me, though.  The cost of riding hopefully will help clear the riff-raff out.  One last thing; some of you make statements that you will ride out there no matter what.  You may want to reconsider that.  Florida law allows for restitution from trespassers of public land to repair habitat damage.  The trespassing ticket would be the least of your worries.  Wait until DEP comes after you with the bill for fixing your tire tracks in the wetlands.

[VForcedave]

Diggin, your point taken about the restitution part. But the people tearing up and down the levy, are lets call them, FREE RIDERS. They come from places where there is NO RIDING ANYWHERE> So they come to a place like that and give it hell. I can relate. BUT, you will never stop that kind of riding. Thats why the ATV community will never be united as a group. Too many styles and splinter groups riding ATV's. The only thing we have in common is, the machine has 4 wheels.

   

FREE RIDERS R.I.P.

[digginfool]

You can look at my list of rides now and assume that I only ride 4x4s.  You would be quite wrong.  I just sold my Raptor in December.  It was a 2002 that had nearly $13,000.00 poured into it and I rode the living hell out of it.  Yes, it went to the Holey Lands on several occassions but it never jumped the bridge, it never rode a wheelie through the parking lot, it never did donuts in the parking lot, throwing rocks all over everybody elses vehicles and it never went the 80+ mph it was capable of on the levy.  That's not to say it wasn't ever ridden hard out there but it wasn't where it was a danger or annoyance to others.  I waited until I was well out away from other traffic where it was safe and appropriate to let it go.  Even then, I used reasonable caution, knowing that in my concentration of watching the trail ahead, somebody may cut across a new trail I wasn't familiar with.  I never rode at speeds beyond what risks I was willing to place upon others and that is the key; the guilty out there never considered the risks they were putting others in.  There is a time and place for all types and styles of riding and the parking areas and levies out in those WMAs were never it.  You can make excuses and rationalize behaviors all you want.  Deep down or on the surface, everybody here (you included) knows what cost us that riding area and it wasn't politics.

[JackL]

We all knew this was coming, the bad news the way I see it: We can't just go 24/7/365 anymore, the good news: During the times we can ride there, the truck won't be covered with dust and rock dings when the ride is over.

I like quality over quantity anyway...

[rdm225]

What about the polluted water big sugar sent into the holeylands, only to make the explosion of sawgrass in areas that should not be. I saw the land out there tracks do more damage than atvs. too bad the atv community down here disrespects the land.The F.W.C. should of kept better rules in force to keep this from happening . The goverment is freaking blind to everything. Time to move out of this chitty state

[SWAMP_DONKEY]

We all knew this was coming, the bad news the way I see it: We can't just go 24/7/365 anymore, the good news: During the times we can ride there, the truck won't be covered with dust and rock dings when the ride is over.

I like quality over quantity anyway...

 Still want to ride that place in the Glades sometime.