Holey Lands rec. riding during hunting season

[jrpro130]

There is no where on myfwc.com that says a person can not recreationally ride an atv during hunting season.  It does say something about atv's only, no trucks/buggies/tracks for hunting.  It does not say ANYTHING about recreational riding.

On that note, none of the 'new' laws that are going to take effect are for recreational riding as far as my interpretation goes.  If someone can show me on myfwc.com where it is different, thats great, I'll believe it.

I just searched that site up and down.  I found absolutely nothing stating recreational vehicles are prohibited during archery/muzzle loading/gun season.  NOTHING!!! 

And what justifies that we can only recreationaly ride at night? There was no FWC out there last night (we did a night ride last night) and no one to regulate any rules. 

I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone is freaking out about holey lands closing down and laws changing.  It only effects hunting season as my interpretation of the writing is.  I don't see anything about recreational riding being prohibited at all!!!

Someone please help me research recreational riding at holey lands, I can't find anything that says we CANT ride recreationaly during the day/night or anytime.

[Tb29]

I am with you on this I myself have researched this as well and dont see anything telling me any differentfrom what already exists as far as rec. riding

[jrpro130]

I am with you on this I myself have researched this as well and dont see anything telling me any differentfrom what already exists as far as rec. riding

Yea, I'm ready to ride during the day.

[digginfool]

Follow this link (http://myfwc.com/commission/RuleChanges/ProposedRules0708.asp) then scroll down to Holey Land WMA or Everglades and Francis S. Taylor WMA.  There, you will find this verbage:

allow the use of ATVs for hunting purposes only and only during archery, muzzleloading gun and general gun-walk seasons and for scouting purposes one week prior to the start of each season.

Strict interpretation of this (which is how it should be looked at) is that the ONLY time you can use an ATV in these WMAs is for hunting purposes only or for scouting the week before hunting season.  If you look at this any other way, you are only fooling yourself.  Take a few moments, press the green button and state (in a polite manner) your opposition to the proposed rule changes.

[jrpro130]

I already read that, it's for 08-09 'proposed changes'.  I put in my .02 cents to them already.

I was just asking basically for right now, right now who is saying we can't ride during the day?


I don't think that proposed rule will go into effect.  It is going to cost the state a lot more money, 'manned check stations', and to actually enforce the 'closure' to atv's *year round* is going to put at least 2 FWC officers at the l-5 and miami canal levee's.  Even at that point, whats stopping anyone from jumping in off of the 15 of other ways of getting back to the south side of the levee by the camps? 

My point: They can 'close' holey lands for recreational use, but it's going to cost them some major bucks.  Maybe they want to spend it, maybe they don't.  Even if they do spend the money and they actually close it down, whats stopping us from riding there? I have only seen FWC 'there' a couple of handful of times that I have been riding there.  I've been riding there since about 2000.  This year, I saw them 2 times in all my riding days.  Once when I didn't know it was closed, a very nice officer came up to us when we took a break and notified us it was closed b/c of the drought, and 2 nights ago when we were night riding, an officer was sitting at the pumphouse.

[digginfool]

Generally speaking, FWC officers were a rarity out there.  This past spring, though, I saw them every time I went out and once had them pull up to us as a group to inform us the kids had to wear their helmets (my kids wear their helmets even if they sit on their ATV).  If the proposed rule goes into effect, they will enforce it vigorously in the beginning but they most likely will reduce manpower out there once the point is made.  I doubt that you would want to be caught out there after that since they will be looking to make examples out of the scofflaws that ride out there after the ban.  As far as right now, it's just good etiquitte not to ride around hunters, not to mention safer.  If you just can't help yourself and you absolutely must ride out there during hunting season just because there are no laws against it, at least ride between the hours of 10:00 and 3:00 or at night; there's no reason to destroy the morning and afternoon hunts.  Even during those hours, don't be surprised if you find yourself in front of some very agitated hunters.

[jrpro130]

Generally speaking, FWC officers were a rarity out there.  This past spring, though, I saw them every time I went out and once had them pull up to us as a group to inform us the kids had to wear their helmets (my kids wear their helmets even if they sit on their ATV).  If the proposed rule goes into effect, they will enforce it vigorously in the beginning but they most likely will reduce manpower out there once the point is made.  I doubt that you would want to be caught out there after that since they will be looking to make examples out of the scofflaws that ride out there after the ban.  As far as right now, it's just good etiquitte not to ride around hunters, not to mention safer.  If you just can't help yourself and you absolutely must ride out there during hunting season just because there are no laws against it, at least ride between the hours of 10:00 and 3:00 or at night; there's no reason to destroy the morning and afternoon hunts.  Even during those hours, don't be surprised if you find yourself in front of some very agitated hunters.

Thats more or less what I thought.  I mean people aren't hunting where the good places we ride right now are.  They are hunting miles and miles out. 

Thanks for the info, it is appreciated 

[crom A zone]

no if you look close there are tree stands less than half a mile of he leeve and they got some many miles out if a hunter see u rideing they will shoot and they cant get intruble b/c all the have to say is that they were shooting a deer and the stray bullit hit u and case close u loose your life or get hurt b/c u are like a kid in a candy store and have to ride holylands durring hunting season?   it dont seem worth it to me. there is a place  2 min from your hosue why dont u ride there? the cops just tell u to leave they dont right tickets unless u park on the grass.  be a man and ride at places that are safe and wont pis people off i.e  L CROSS    C AND R     there are alot more places to ride that are safer and i think more fun than holylands will ever be

[EigerGuy]

the only reason FWC doesnt want anybody to ride during the day is because of the hunters, they are looking out for our best interest. its only for hunting season then after that we can go ride until our faces are blue, look at it in this perspective we ride at holylands all year long so hunting season gives time for the inviornment to grow back and what not

[AintSkeered]

Incorrect, we had not been able to legally ride Holeylands all year long until 2007 and it's usually flooded-out 3-5 months per year, as well. Why can't the hunters keep the Holeylands side(north side of levee) during hunting seasons and we take the Francis S. Taylor Everglades side(south of levee) all year round?

[jrpro130]

All my point is for this ENTIRE thread is saying:

Everyone says holylands is 'closed' to 'recreational riding' during the day.  It infact is not.  There is no where on FWC.com that says it is indeed closed during the day for rec. use.  There isn't even anyone out there to legally enforce this.

However, don't get it twisted...the hunters enforce this themselves.  I was in no way, shape, or form asking if it was ok for ME to ride HL during hunting season.  I think that is pretty rude, and if I was hunting, I would be pretty aggrivated if a bunch of ATV'ers screamed past me whilst my animal ran away that I was about to shoot.

Keep in mind, I opened this thread up to educate.  HL is NOT closed during the day, there IS NO FWC EVEN OUT THERE during the day (none that I have seen yet) and there is no 'rule', 'law', or anything else implied that says we can not ride during the day.  There is no green flag to riding during the night.  I think it's pretty assinine to even ride the levey during the day.  It's annoying for hunters and it just pisses everyone off.  Go to a different spot, or hold your horses.

It's not FWC that doesn't want people out there...it's the hunters.  Woudl you want some dickhead screaming past you while your trying to shoot a deer? Think not.  Let me rephrase...would you want a hunter standing next to you firing a gun while you are stuck in the mud trying to winch yourself out? It will just aggrivate you.

I think AintSkeered has a good idea, I'll take the south side of the levee all year round!!! I love holey lands, I love riding there.  I don't mind waiting a couple months to ride there and not piss everyone off.  We went on a night ride the other night, there was hunters everywhere, so we stayed places we wouldn't piss them off.  It's just common courteousy.

My point is, I don't know who 'said' we can't ride HL during the day.  I don't know who started the rumor.  It is not true.  Anyone can ride HL during the day, it's not reccomended BC you probably will get shot at (even though it's archery right now) and hunters take things into their own hands.  FWC will NOT be on your side when an arrow comes at you...trust me.  HL was set aside for HUNTING, it just so happens it is a gray area for recreational atv riding. 

BTW, there isn't tree stands 1/2 mile from the levee, theres no trees to put stands in until miles out

[EigerGuy]

Whats in correct the fact that FWC doesn't want us riding because of hunters and our safety? Yes, if were in a drought or its extremely flooded whats the sense in riding especially if theres a drought.


Last time i was out there FWC had a hunters check they were curious if we were riding or hunting they advised us not to ride because of the hunters, they told us at dusk they hunters were no longer able to hunt and it was ok to ride.

As for fiding on either side im open id perfer to ride on both side its the riders choice same for the hunters weather they hunt on the north side or south its up to them.

[jrpro130]

Last time i was out there FWC had a hunters check they were curious if we were riding or hunting they advised us not to ride because of the hunters, they told us at dusk they hunters were no longer able to hunt and it was ok to ride.

Where did you get that information from? Last night ride there was hunters all over the place.  It was about 2am and they were using spotlights to spot out their animals. 

FWC advises everyone not to ride during hunting season.  Keyword 'advises'.  There is no law or rule.  I just don't like that everyone has spread this rumor that you 'can not' ride during the day.  You can, there is no limitation.  The only thing FWC cares about is that you are not illigally hunting or taking game.  They can only enforce those rules when THEY ARE THERE!!! WHICH IS NEVER!!!!  I've seen FWC out there 3x this year.  I have been riding there since it opened up after the drought 2-3x a week at all different times.  One time a woman was sitting at the pumphouse-she thought she was sneaky.  Another time a guy was up on the south side of the levee where everyone parks, and another time a lady was on the N side of the levee where the hunters check station is.  And mind you I ride 2-3x a week!!!

I have yet to see an officer during hunting season.  None of the guys I ride with have either!!!  It's pure chaos out there at night (as far as hunting goes).  The hunters shoot anything that moves.  They don't follow any tag regulations or anything, just kill and gut it.  But thats enough about hunting...on to the important stuff.

FWC doesn't want anyone to get hurt.  The drought is not what caused HL to be closed.  It was the buggy fire, thats no secret.  SFWMD has been waiting for a 'reason' to close a riding spot.  What do they care? It wasn't during hunting season and no one would complain but us recreational atvers!!! 

And hunters do hunt all day, I don't know hunting rules, but last I thought, hunting stopped at night...but what do I know? These crazy guys were out there last night all night hunting with a spotlight.  Whatever works!!!

[cg54329]

w/e I say nay to the murder of animals and yay to the sport of riding

[crom A zone]

you dont like hunting   are you a guy?

[wilburz]

Last time i was out there FWC had a hunters check they were curious if we were riding or hunting they advised us not to ride because of the hunters, they told us at dusk they hunters were no longer able to hunt and it was ok to ride.

Where did you get that information from? Last night ride there was hunters all over the place.  It was about 2am and they were using spotlights to spot out their animals. 

FWC advises everyone not to ride during hunting season.  Keyword 'advises'.  There is no law or rule.  I just don't like that everyone has spread this rumor that you 'can not' ride during the day.  You can, there is no limitation.  The only thing FWC cares about is that you are not illigally hunting or taking game.  They can only enforce those rules when THEY ARE THERE!!! WHICH IS NEVER!!!!  I've seen FWC out there 3x this year.  I have been riding there since it opened up after the drought 2-3x a week at all different times.  One time a woman was sitting at the pumphouse-she thought she was sneaky.  Another time a guy was up on the south side of the levee where everyone parks, and another time a lady was on the N side of the levee where the hunters check station is.  And mind you I ride 2-3x a week!!!

I have yet to see an officer during hunting season.  None of the guys I ride with have either!!!  It's pure chaos out there at night (as far as hunting goes).  The hunters shoot anything that moves.  They don't follow any tag regulations or anything, just kill and gut it.  But thats enough about hunting...on to the important stuff.

FWC doesn't want anyone to get hurt.  The drought is not what caused HL to be closed.  It was the buggy fire, thats no secret.  SFWMD has been waiting for a 'reason' to close a riding spot.  What do they care? It wasn't during hunting season and no one would complain but us recreational atvers!!! 

And hunters do hunt all day, I don't know hunting rules, but last I thought, hunting stopped at night...but what do I know? These crazy guys were out there last night all night hunting with a spotlight.  Whatever works!!!

If you are seeing or hearing people out hunting after dusk then you need to report them to FWC. On the back of every hunting licsence is a phone # 1-888-404-FWCC.
I personnally, don't believe you seen people out hunting at night, shooting guns. They may have been out boozing and shining and looking at wildlife but i highly doubt they were firing weapons. FWC would be all over that place if they heard or someone reported gunshots at night. 

[wilburz]

I personally would have no problem calling that phone number and report illegal hunting. hunting at night with lights and guns is not hunting!

[wilburz]

w/e I say nay to the murder of animals and yay to the sport of riding

glad you feel that way. Would you like to go hunting with me and some friends one day?

[jrpro130]

Last time i was out there FWC had a hunters check they were curious if we were riding or hunting they advised us not to ride because of the hunters, they told us at dusk they hunters were no longer able to hunt and it was ok to ride.

Where did you get that information from? Last night ride there was hunters all over the place.  It was about 2am and they were using spotlights to spot out their animals. 

FWC advises everyone not to ride during hunting season.  Keyword 'advises'.  There is no law or rule.  I just don't like that everyone has spread this rumor that you 'can not' ride during the day.  You can, there is no limitation.  The only thing FWC cares about is that you are not illigally hunting or taking game.  They can only enforce those rules when THEY ARE THERE!!! WHICH IS NEVER!!!!  I've seen FWC out there 3x this year.  I have been riding there since it opened up after the drought 2-3x a week at all different times.  One time a woman was sitting at the pumphouse-she thought she was sneaky.  Another time a guy was up on the south side of the levee where everyone parks, and another time a lady was on the N side of the levee where the hunters check station is.  And mind you I ride 2-3x a week!!!

I have yet to see an officer during hunting season.  None of the guys I ride with have either!!!  It's pure chaos out there at night (as far as hunting goes).  The hunters shoot anything that moves.  They don't follow any tag regulations or anything, just kill and gut it.  But thats enough about hunting...on to the important stuff.

FWC doesn't want anyone to get hurt.  The drought is not what caused HL to be closed.  It was the buggy fire, thats no secret.  SFWMD has been waiting for a 'reason' to close a riding spot.  What do they care? It wasn't during hunting season and no one would complain but us recreational atvers!!! 

And hunters do hunt all day, I don't know hunting rules, but last I thought, hunting stopped at night...but what do I know? These crazy guys were out there last night all night hunting with a spotlight.  Whatever works!!!

If you are seeing or hearing people out hunting after dusk then you need to report them to FWC. On the back of every hunting licsence is a phone # 1-888-404-FWCC.
I personnally, don't believe you seen people out hunting at night, shooting guns. They may have been out boozing and shining and looking at wildlife but i highly doubt they were firing weapons. FWC would be all over that place if they heard or someone reported gunshots at night. 

Umm...it's archery season 

I don't hear gunshots.  What I see every time I have gone out there during archery season is people riding with spotlights and bows.  The have one person shine the spotlight, the other person shoot the bow. 

If they were firing weapons, I would definetly report them...it's not even gun season.

[wilburz]

ok. i did not even think of that. But you still could report it. Not very fair shining animals at night. 

[singleshot]

ok. i did not even think of that. But you still could report it. Not very fair shining animals at night. 

It is against the law to shine deer at night in a WMA even if you do not have a gun or bow in your possession.   If you see that happening please report it.

[JackL]

Trust me when I tell you you do not want to recreationally ride the holeylands during a hunt, and I would like to know when you go out there and NOT see FWC officers? I must go all the wrong times..haha

[jrpro130]

Trust me when I tell you you do not want to recreationally ride the holeylands during a hunt, and I would like to know when you go out there and NOT see FWC officers? I must go all the wrong times..haha

Haha, I NEVER see them! We go on off times (weekdays) and at night I usually never see them there.

[EigerGuy]

I would like to know when you go out there and NOT see FWC officers? I must go all the wrong times..haha

x2
iv even seen them there at night they hide out but they are there, i guess it depends how late u got out but iv seen them there at like around 1am

[jrpro130]

I would like to know when you go out there and NOT see FWC officers? I must go all the wrong times..haha

x2
iv even seen them there at night they hide out but they are there, i guess it depends how late u got out but iv seen them there at like around 1am

I saw one on the levey, she thought she was sneaky hiding behind a pump at the first pumphouse.

I wish FWC was out there all the time to control some of the 'idiots' out there.