Do we still want to fight for "legal" places to ride?

[lswjth2]

Folks, I'm posing this question to the entire community. Last week, at the very last minute, without any reason given, SFWMD yanked all their lands from the Miami-Dade County OHV feasibility study. This also means you can say goodbye to Holeylands. Are we willing to fight or not?

[Ida_Mann]

why give up, why not point out how the gubment is screwing taxpayers,,,,oh wait, that is FAIRly common anyway.

Id@

[KB]

That's crazy, does it have anything to do w/ these budget cut's ?
I know JackL would probably fight toe to toe for the HoleyLand's.
I've never even been there.
Not to get off your topic but who will be there to enforce or keep people out if they lay off everybody that work's for the State or County ?
I think O.N.F. only had about 3 Rangers if that for the whole Forest & IMO that's why a lot of places got shut down, there was nobody there to enforce the law's that were already in place.

Looks like to me a lot of people are going to be going to Paul's new place to ride.

[caospop]

 

[1FasterBlaster]

   I'll admit I haven't been a strong participant since I sold my quad, and have two kids keeping me busy, and driving over the road while working. I hope noone gives up the fight. I'll have another quad, and would hate to have nowhere to ride.

[EigerGuy]

because im new to this what can i do or try to do that would help us get some land back

[bigscrub79]

I am still ready to fight. Lets get it on.

[VForcedave]

Bad press and lack of deep pocket organization is killing us. If I was a tree hugger and folowed the OHV's attempt to get more public lands, I would be pretty confident they would not succeed. Thats me and you. Our organizations are loose at best. I am not knocking anyone either, do not get your panties in a wad. We are fragmented and underfunded. Can we get to the "other side", I do not know but so far its not working. After reading the May 14 issue of Time magazine (i believe it was Time) We have more to worry about that the heavely funded environmental groups. The US government is considering regualting ATV sales and production due to the deaths and accidents primarily to young children and teens. We need to embrace our enemies, study them closely, and attempt to rise to another level beyond anyone here has ever seen. I hate to sound like a doomsday guy, but I am no youngster and have a witnessed the demise of other organizations trying to stay alive against Big Money Interests.    Keep your enemies close. I was thinking recently about a far fetched Idea. What if we started to diversify our ATV organiztion. That means considering other groups to populate our little club. Hear me out. What if some of us became ATV/Nature Lovers. Its what we are anyway. We love the outdoors, we play in the outdoors. What if we had some crossover into the hiking, tree loving, bird watching or  what ever else they do and became a group a environmental atv riders. One of our interests should be prserving the lands and habitats. We can still be a ATV  community, but with a interest in the environment. Sounds strange coming from me. I know there are people out there that think I am crazy. Lets hear what some have to say. I have said enough.              

[gearhead400]

15 votes and only seven responses? thats what is killing us. I am a youngster so i dont have much  experience into fighting the government yet haha. But this is the way i'd like to start. If you vets at this can give me an outline of what to do i'll get it done. If theres a meeting coming up that i can make, i'll make it. I just have to know when where and who to talk to.

[sbripple]

i dont want a few places to ride.I wanna fight for the right to drive everywhere.I think we should be able to drive down the side of the roads and run to the store or gas staion if we choose.Anything less is pissin in the wind and playin the game by their rules.

[qt314nfla]

as usual y'all know i'm in just let me know what i need to do.

[Ida_Mann]

Bad press and lack of deep pocket organization is killing us. If I was a tree hugger and folowed the OHV's attempt to get more public lands, I would be pretty confident they would not succeed. Thats me and you. Our organizations are loose at best. I am not knocking anyone either, do not get your panties in a wad. We are fragmented and underfunded. Can we get to the "other side", I do not know but so far its not working. After reading the May 14 issue of Time magazine (i believe it was Time) We have more to worry about that the heavely funded environmental groups. The US government is considering regualting ATV sales and production due to the deaths and accidents primarily to young children and teens. We need to embrace our enemies, study them closely, and attempt to rise to another level beyond anyone here has ever seen. I hate to sound like a doomsday guy, but I am no youngster and have a witnessed the demise of other organizations trying to stay alive against Big Money Interests.    Keep your enemies close. I was thinking recently about a far fetched Idea. What if we started to diversify our ATV organiztion. That means considering other groups to populate our little club. Hear me out. What if some of us became ATV/Nature Lovers. Its what we are anyway. We love the outdoors, we play in the outdoors. What if we had some crossover into the hiking, tree loving, bird watching or  what ever else they do and became a group a environmental atv riders. One of our interests should be prserving the lands and habitats. We can still be a ATV  community, but with a interest in the environment. Sounds strange coming from me. I know there are people out there that think I am crazy. Lets hear what some have to say. I have said enough.             

that's not so crazy, I had the "pleasure" of suffering through an Earth Day celebration at my boss' house this year(don't ask me when it is) and of course got to sit in the middle of a bunch of people who drive hybrids like it's some kind of religion and think Al Gore is the second coming.  And you should have seen their faces when I told them I ride ATVs,,,,,oh boy you would have though I had just violated their grandmother in front of a football stadium full of catholic preachers,,,,uhhh wait.....

Then I had to go further and tell them that one of my quads runs exclusivly on 110 Octane LEADED fuel,,,,,oh boy I went back for a second round on granny there.

So I then explained to them all, who were looking at me through a cloud of red in their eyes from the broken blood-vessels due to high blood pressure, that I loved the environment and nature probably more than they did and I was able to enjoy more of it in one weekend than it would take them a week to hike.

I told them about all the wildlife I have seen that don't seem to mind the quad at all, all the critters that just look at me funny when I ride past instead of running away, and I actually got a couple of them interested in going out with me to ONF.

So, no, you aren't crazy, we as ATVers have more in common with the tree-huggers than we think and I would go it to it further, but my beer is getting warmer by the second.

Id@

[Mars]

I too am guilty on not doing much lately.  I'll blame it on my 12 hour work days. I will not given up. I will be a torn in there side as long as I can.

[Southern4x4]

Right when you think youve done alot, that means you just gotta do 5 times more. So just keep trying.

[Gato]

I am in and help with what I can and have been to these meetings with Cary(MiamiGirlRider) from atvmiaxtreme and we found out about the sfwmd pull at the last meeting with no warning but have been told to fight the biggest site was rocky glades and no excuse was given they just said it was not feasible for that kind of use but then again they still pulled out ALL of the sites on the study that belonged to them at the first meeting they seemed to be in line to help but know I think it is time to push back and with force. As for under funded Rick cant we find a suitible lawyer to appoint for a suit of some kind and maybe collect A fee from users of the site I know I am willing with as many users as this site has and atvmiaxtreme and we can maybe get a list of Registered bike owners of florida and see if they are registered to any of the 3 sites Atvflorida, Floidaatv & Atvmiaxtreme cause we have met some new people on rides that didnt know of these sites. what ever way we go I am in as far as I can help within my means.

[pinkfloyd]

Hate to be the sort thumb in this, if you sue the greenies you will run out of money before anything happens, they know that. Where does the organization stand on this issue, isn't lswjth2 part of that organization. You need not only organize the ATV people, which is a chore in itself, but also all the OHV organizations. Then pull all people together and find out what talents lie where, and where you can be the most effective.

[AmericanRobster]

I'm in all the way!!!!

[DOITHARD]

In my opinion, we need to have a fund raiser along with a consensus on how the funds should be disbursed.  I personally do not have any experience in creating/organizing a charitable organization but volunteering to it would not be a problem...The idea of joining the "tree huggers" for our benefit...learning how they organize and raise money could be a good thing.  The key is unity and raising a buck or two.

[yfz122]

my girlfriend is a finacial advisor (or something like that) for united way in this area. she would know how to handle that if necessary.

[DOITHARD]

Maybe your girlfriend can give us an idea of how much money we need to raise or perhaps she can guide us to someone who is willing to help us...if we are really serious about the issue being discussed.  We need to stop whining about not being able to ride...all we need is lots of money raised (doable in my book) and we will get what we want...its all about priorities and involvement. 

[mudnuri]

You guys are funny.
If you are not going to join an already existing club in Florida, then you should ALL join this new ATV Association that started right here!
Have a fundraiser so you can hire an lawyer. THAT IS YOUR ONLY HOPE!
Get someone to work for you and pay them to speak for you. You know you will never go to any meeting and would be a heck of a lot easier to pay someone. Not saying you all are lazy when it comes to the political stuff, but the facts speak for themselves. So few do ANYTHING. They cannot do it by themselves.
After you get a lawyer in your stable, organize a rally in EVERY COUNTY on the same day. Alert the news media. Make poster signs and demonstrate on the steps of your county offices.
IT IS THE ONLY WAY!!!... I think
NEVER GIVE UP! and ride responsibly

[singleshot]

Where are the ATV manufacturers and large dealerships?   They make all the money off of ATV sales and have the deep pockets to hire lawyers and lobbyists to fight the gov't.   What we as a group need to do is let them know that we are not going to buy their products unless we see them fighting for places for us to ride.

To fight the gov't at all levels ( National, State and Local )  we need a national association that if well funded by the manufacturers, suppliers and dealers.   Just like how the NRA fights for second amendment rights.

Instead of just writing letters to our gov't representatives we should be writing the manufacturers, suppliers and dealers where we spend all our money.  If they don't get behind us then we will never be able to win.

[KB]

Where are the ATV manufacturers and large dealerships?   They make all the money off of ATV sales and have the deep pockets to hire lawyers and lobbyists to fight the gov't.

Instead of just writing letters to our gov't representatives we should be writing the manufacturers, suppliers and dealers where we spend all our money.  If they don't get behind us then we will never be able to win.

I agree & wonder the same thing, but I think until they see a decline in sales they(manufactures) won't due anything for us, & since I think(maybe wrong) that FL. has a high amount of ATV sales, they don't see a problem here, there fine w/ it IMO.

It does seem like I see a lot more used ATV's being sold here on this site than in the past(for pretty cheap prices too), I think it might be a little to due w/ the economy BUT MOSTLY TO DO W/ NO PLACES TO RIDE THEM ANYMORE.

Maybe when the manufacturers see a decline in there sales they'll send there lobbyists to do something about it.
 

[Gato]

Where are the ATV manufacturers and large dealerships?   They make all the money off of ATV sales and have the deep pockets to hire lawyers and lobbyists to fight the gov't.   What we as a group need to do is let them know that we are not going to buy their products unless we see them fighting for places for us to ride.

To fight the gov't at all levels ( National, State and Local )  we need a national association that if well funded by the manufacturers, suppliers and dealers.   Just like how the NRA fights for second amendment rights.

Instead of just writing letters to our gov't representatives we should be writing the manufacturers, suppliers and dealers where we spend all our money.  If they don't get behind us then we will never be able to win.

that is true

You guys are funny.
If you are not going to join an already existing club in Florida, then you should ALL join this new ATV Association that started right here!
Have a fundraiser so you can hire an lawyer. THAT IS YOUR ONLY HOPE!
Get someone to work for you and pay them to speak for you. You know you will never go to any meeting and would be a heck of a lot easier to pay someone. Not saying you all are lazy when it comes to the political stuff, but the facts speak for themselves. So few do ANYTHING. They cannot do it by themselves.
After you get a lawyer in your stable, organize a rally in EVERY COUNTY on the same day. Alert the news media. Make poster signs and demonstrate on the steps of your county offices.
IT IS THE ONLY WAY!!!... I think
NEVER GIVE UP! and ride responsibly

I recent this because I am one of the ones like I know there are other that have gone I have been to all the meetings in my area and even been to 2 in Ft. Myers not to brag cause I know there are others that do much much more than I but look Rick,Scott & the guys from N.Port Offroad,Dennis and Cary are just some of the people I have met and I tell you these guys do more than their share of fighting not saying some others done I just have not met the others I have done only little but I have only been at this since Sept. of 2006 or so but riding since about 87 I think!!!

[Islandbreeze07]

ummm---just my two cents here.

Anyone think of pulling ALL Atv organizations into one state-level organization? There are so many local atv groups that even work together. Yes, whoever said that a few within NPORA have been working hard. yes! But I would not dismiss the efforts of others within other groups. I only found the list of those groups just from messing with Google recently. Man, that is a lot of atv clubs. Few clubs with only 5-7 ppl. Bring them into big ones! My guess is that everyone wants to do something but it's very hard to Pull Together and fight for riding areas when so many are so scattered across the state. Everybody's doing dandy in one way or another. Except for the no riding areas!

Look at it this way, anyone who watches Battlestar Galactica knows that the whole fleet answers to Galactica because that is the only battlestar that controls and protects the fleet. Each ship has a representative... get it?

So the big guns in the biggest organization can try to pull everyone in just to fight for riding areas. the Rally wasn't too big. I didn't go but hey, I could have. Bad date, bad turnout, whatever, but we can try next year, just put all clubs on notice to stop talking and DO IT. Then tallahase may notice. A letter writing campaign by all atv riders, spearheaded by the biggest club, maybe? Someone suggested that one on this thread. Good thought. Boycott ATV sales would be incredibly hard because we would only hurt ourselves?

Just my wee two cents......
 

[AmericanRobster]

ummm---just my two cents here.

Anyone think of pulling ALL Atv organizations into one state-level organization? There are so many local atv groups that even work together. Yes, whoever said that a few within NPORA have been working hard. yes! But I would not dismiss the efforts of others within other groups. I only found the list of those groups just from messing with Google recently. Man, that is a lot of atv clubs. Few clubs with only 5-7 ppl. Bring them into big ones! My guess is that everyone wants to do something but it's very hard to Pull Together and fight for riding areas when so many are so scattered across the state. Everybody's doing dandy in one way or another. Except for the no riding areas!

Look at it this way, anyone who watches Battlestar Galactica knows that the whole fleet answers to Galactica because that is the only battlestar that controls and protects the fleet. Each ship has a representative... get it?

So the big guns in the biggest organization can try to pull everyone in just to fight for riding areas. the Rally wasn't too big. I didn't go but hey, I could have. Bad date, bad turnout, whatever, but we can try next year, just put all clubs on notice to stop talking and DO IT. Then tallahase may notice. A letter writing campaign by all atv riders, spearheaded by the biggest club, maybe? Someone suggested that one on this thread. Good thought. Boycott ATV sales would be incredibly hard because we would only hurt ourselves?

Just my wee two cents......
 

Good point!

[EigerGuy]

so can somebody tell me what i can do in my area to help out

thank you

[anarion55]

It's not just about forming a local group - they have relatively little clout. What is needed is a unified organization that operates on a national, state and local level, and brings all the smaller groups under their umbrella. The ATVA comes to mind, as does the AMA.

They already have their agenda and projects in the works; by working with them, we avoid reinventing the wheel... Join & get active.

Tony
AMA AND ATVA member.

[DOITHARD]

It's not just about forming a local group - they have relatively little clout. What is needed is a unified organization that operates on a national, state and local level, and brings all the smaller groups under their umbrella. The ATVA comes to mind, as does the AMA.

They already have their agenda and projects in the works; by working with them, we avoid reinventing the wheel... Join & get active.

Tony
AMA AND ATVA member.

It's not just about forming a local group - they have relatively little clout. What is needed is a unified organization that operates on a national, state and local level, and brings all the smaller groups under their umbrella. The ATVA comes to mind, as does the AMA.

They already have their agenda and projects in the works; by working with them, we avoid reinventing the wheel... Join & get active.

Tony
AMA AND ATVA member

You have a very valid point...Ok, lets say that we are now members of those two organizations...then what? 

It's not just about forming a local group - they have relatively little clout. What is needed is a unified organization that operates on a national, state and local level, and brings all the smaller groups under their umbrella. The ATVA comes to mind, as does the AMA.

They already have their agenda and projects in the works; by working with them, we avoid reinventing the wheel... Join & get active.

Tony
AMA AND ATVA member.

You have a valid point....what are the costs to joining? and then what?

[EigerGuy]

You have a valid point....what are the costs to joining? and then what?

x2

[mudnuri]

I am a member of ATVA. They are working with the Blue Ribbon Coalition, but I don't know what they do for us 
I know this sounds funny coming from me, but if I join something that is supposed to help me and then they don't...   
I know I am required to join AMA/ATVA to race in some sanctioned events, but I still don't feel them helping us here in FL.
If they are then my apologies, but can't remember ever getting even a reply after emailing them for help. And have I emailed. You name it, I have emailed them. NO REPLY EVER! FROM ANYONE! This includes our congressman, our govenor, and Forest services. NEVER-NOT ONE REPLY.
They'll take my money, but thats about it.
I have been to meetings and it is, for the most part, a joke. Some person gets up on the high horse and says what we want to hear and then does the complete opposite. Or drive 4 hours each way to a meeting and the issue of OHV's NEVER comes up!!
We are fighting an uphill battle and if you don't get into this fight with some sort of legal back-up, it is my stong opinion, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.
The way I see it, the only thing we have right now is this new ATV organization. However, without a lawyer, nothing is going to happen. SAD BUT TRUE!
I will donate to that org if there is some sort of plan that I can see/read. There has to be anywhere's from 500 to 1,000 of us on this site alone. With the right lawyer, those numbers will mean something. If someone smarter than me can get this ball rolling we may have a chance to at least get the MARK T. SCHMITT OHV law enforced. That law is already in place. Get our group to attack the state officials on this law and maybe we will get somewhere.
Complaining to each other is getting so old and does absolutely nothing.

[Gato]

I am a member of ATVA. They are working with the Blue Ribbon Coalition, but I don't know what they do for us 
I know this sounds funny coming from me, but if I join something that is supposed to help me and then they don't...   
I know I am required to join AMA/ATVA to race in some sanctioned events, but I still don't feel them helping us here in FL.
If they are then my apologies, but can't remember ever getting even a reply after emailing them for help. And have I emailed. You name it, I have emailed them. NO REPLY EVER! FROM ANYONE! This includes our congressman, our govenor, and Forest services. NEVER-NOT ONE REPLY.
They'll take my money, but thats about it.
I have been to meetings and it is, for the most part, a joke. Some person gets up on the high horse and says what we want to hear and then does the complete opposite. Or drive 4 hours each way to a meeting and the issue of OHV's NEVER comes up!!
We are fighting an uphill battle and if you don't get into this fight with some sort of legal back-up, it is my stong opinion, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.
The way I see it, the only thing we have right now is this new ATV organization. However, without a lawyer, nothing is going to happen. SAD BUT TRUE!
I will donate to that org if there is some sort of plan that I can see/read. There has to be anywhere's from 500 to 1,000 of us on this site alone. With the right lawyer, those numbers will mean something. If someone smarter than me can get this ball rolling we may have a chance to at least get the MARK T. SCHMITT OHV law enforced. That law is already in place. Get our group to attack the state officials on this law and maybe we will get somewhere.
Complaining to each other is getting so old and does absolutely nothing.

2nd that

[jetski dawg]

about 10 or 15 yrs ago , the farmers got tired of the government screwing them over, so thousands of them drove their tractors to D.C. right in front of the white house.... this is what we need to do.. gather up the quads and get a permit to rally in Tally.. drive them right on the streets and show them that we need places to ride

[Paul_S]

about 10 or 15 yrs ago , the farmers got tired of the government screwing them over, so thousands of them drove their tractors to D.C. right in front of the white house.... this is what we need to do.. gather up the quads and get a permit to rally in Tally.. drive them right on the streets and show them that we need places to ride

The new Motoplex is 30 minutes from Tallahassee, we are talking about holding an event there in the fall, that combines a demonstration in Tallahasee with a weekend ride. Stay tuned for more info.

[AmericanRobster]

about 10 or 15 yrs ago , the farmers got tired of the government screwing them over, so thousands of them drove their tractors to D.C. right in front of the white house.... this is what we need to do.. gather up the quads and get a permit to rally in Tally.. drive them right on the streets and show them that we need places to ride

The new Motoplex is 30 minutes from Tallahassee, we are talking about holding an event there in the fall, that combines a demonstration in Tallahasee with a weekend ride. Stay tuned for more info.

Great idea!!!

[DOITHARD]

Great idea! 

[JackL]

about 10 or 15 yrs ago , the farmers got tired of the government screwing them over, so thousands of them drove their tractors to D.C. right in front of the white house.... this is what we need to do.. gather up the quads and get a permit to rally in Tally.. drive them right on the streets and show them that we need places to ride

The new Motoplex is 30 minutes from Tallahassee, we are talking about holding an event there in the fall, that combines a demonstration in Tallahasee with a weekend ride. Stay tuned for more info.

[riverranchrat]

truth be known,every ATVer is a "closet treehugger" whether they know it or not