Ocala National Forest Phase II

[GrizzlyBear]

Today the USFS announced the final draft for Phase II

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/florida/ocala_phase2.shtml

This is open for 30 days of comments starting June 20, 2007.  If you have any comments, please follow the procedures stated below:

Written comments on this proposal should be sent to: District Ranger, 40929 State Road 19, Umatilla, Florida 32784, telephone (352) 669-3153; fax (352) 669-2385.  Oral or hand-delivered comments must be received within our normal business hours of 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Monday through Friday, closed on federal holidays.  Comments may also be mailed electronically in a common digital format to our office at comments-southern-florida-seminole@fs.fed.us or at the local Ranger Stations in Umatilla and Silver Springs.
Friends of the Ocala National Forest            

I would appreciate everyone sending me a copy of your comments;  Terry@onfa.org.  This way I can monitor and make sure they are getting them

[Bounty1]

O'k everyone here it is. The environmental assessment is in. We have to say we want  If we do not get this, we could get nothing. Make sure you send your comments in please. Make sure you use your names and do NOT be anonymous. If we do not act the NIMBYs and the SOBaS will beat us out. They do not want us in there at all. This is very very important.




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[Bounty1]

I found these 4 alternatives on page 35. This tells how many miles in each alternative.


Alternative 1
Alternative 1 would allow travel on all existing roads and non-designated unmarked travelways. This would provide more access but represents the greatest potential for impacts on the soil and water resources. In this alternative there would be a total of 1,360 miles of motorized routes for use, twice as many as any other alternative. Of these, 158 acres are located on wetland type soils and 154 acres are within 200 feet of water. This would have the highest risk for direct and indirect impacts on the soil and water resources of any of the alternatives.

Alternative 2
Alternative 2 would eliminate 740 miles of roads and non-designated unmarked travelways from the 1,360 miles available in Alternative 1. There would be a total of 646 miles of motorized routes remaining. Of these miles of roads and trails, 77 acres are located on wetland type soils and 34 acres are within 200 feet of water. The miles of roads and trails designated within 200 feet of a lake or pond would be reduced from 25 miles existing today to less than 5 miles with this alternative. This would contribute to the reduction of any direct or indirect impacts the resulting motorized routes may have on the soil and water resources. Overall, this alternative should result in fewer risks to soil and water resources when compared to the existing condition.

Alternative 3
Alternative 3 would eliminate 732 miles of roads and non-designated unmarked travelways from the 1,360 miles available in Alternative 1. There would be a total of 654 miles of motorized routes remaining. Of these miles of roads and trails, 77 acres are located on wetland type soils and 34 acres are within 200 feet of water the same as for Alternative 2. The miles of roads and trails designated within 200 feet of a lake or pond would be reduced from 25 miles existing today to less than 5 miles with this alternative. This would contribute to the reduction of any direct or indirect impacts the resulting motorized routes may have on the soil and water resources. Overall, this alternative should result in fewer risks to soil and water resources when compared to the existing condition.

Alternative 4
Alternative 4 would eliminate 814 miles of roads and non-designated unmarked travelways from the 1,360 miles available in Alternative 1. There would be a total of 548 miles of motorized routes remaining. Of these miles of roads and trails, 74 acres are located on wetland type soils and 32 acres are within 200 feet of water very similar to Alternatives 2 & 3. The miles of roads and trails designated within 200 feet of a lake or pond would be reduced from 25 miles existing today to less than 5 miles with this alternative. This would contribute to the reduction of any direct or indirect impacts the resulting motorized routes may have on the soil and water resources. Overall, this alternative should result in fewer risks to soil and water resources when compared to the existing condition and possibly less than Alternatives 2 & 3.
35

           

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[Chillinthemost]

So, obviously alternative 1 is the best for us. Which one realistically will we get or should we ask for?

[qt314nfla]

I agree w/ chillin' that option one would be the best for our purposes.  It'll be interesting to see what we get.  Also, how is the decision being made on which option is the future for phase 2?

[pinkfloyd]

Done Deal alternative 3 perferred alternative. Government going through motions..

[ladyinpink]

hey ya all --- ya all where does this here organization ONFA stand in all of this?

[GrizzlyGator]

hey ya all --- ya all where does this here organization ONFA stand in all of this?

Good Lord I wonder who this is!!!!!!!!!   Here we go again!

[renmus]

hey ya all --- ya all where does this here organization ONFA stand in all of this?

Good Lord I wonder who this is!!!!!!!!!   Here we go again!

despiration...

[digginfool]

The problem with Bounty's post is that the totals shown include Forest Service roads which we are prohibited from using.  Our designated use trails will drop from 584 miles to 117 miles.  There will also be a sub-20 mph speed limit on those trails.  You can see this on pages 11-13 and a chart on page 34.  We will lose 80% or more of the riding trails we now enjoy in all but Alternative 1.  Obviously, Alternative 1, the status quo, is not going to happen.  The other alternatives are too oppressive.  I remember a post not too long ago about a couple of 'our representatives' who went to the scoping meeting and joked about designated mudding and racing areas.  Their comments were included in this report and resoundly dismissed.  If we are ever going to make head way in this fight, the people who choose to represent us must be of professional character and be prepared to offer verifiable defense of our requests.  We need to organize, collect money and hire lobbyists to represent our interests, just as our foes have done.  This cannot be a haphazard effort; it's got to be all or nothing or we lose any sense of legitmacy.

[Bounty1]

So far reading all this--Alternative 3 is the best for ATV riders. If you look at the map the small trails are closed to us now. We cannot ride on numbered roads. So I will go for 3 which add trails and trailheads. Plus Alternative 3 connects all the trails through the forest. We will be able to drive from one end of the forest to the other.






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[pinkfloyd]

Whatever the alternative for proposed action is where it will lie. Digginfool a lot of comments were dismissed. They have one objective slow people down hence the speed limit and bird viewing ideas. I have talked with some people that sat in on the first phase, the same thing happened there that is now happening in phase II. Whatever the proposed alternative is, it is a done deal.

All of this comes down to what digginfool has stated it comes down to being organized as a group. I don't ever see anyone getting organized. You disagree protest at tallahassee where all the Forest personal will be, let your voice be heard all the ONF people will be there, now is the time.

Mr. Grizzleybear I have a question for you, where you at the meetings? If you where there why didn't you try to defend the speedlimit rule? What goes. What goes with the Florida ATV Assoc, where are they, why don't they make some noise. These people are suppose to be defending your trails, where are they.

Digginfool - if the trails are done right (and that is a big IF) they won't have to worry about speed limits. The trails will slow you down. There are ways to build trails to keep speeds slow, they have been doing it in Colorado and Idaho for years.

Betime the ohv people get organized and gain respect you will lost your trails.

[GrizzlyBear]

Ok, I know everyone is waiting to see what I have to say about Phase II.  First of all, it is everything that was not included in Phase I, so when this is done, the only riding will be on designated trails. Now I have been monitoring this from the beginning, and I posted this when it first came out. Some of the changes I have requested, were considered and were eliminated, i.e. high speed riding, access from campground on hwy 42, access to camp Ocala and others.  But this being said, what they are giving us should be a good system.  Remember, they are also going to have a fee system by the end of the year, and based on that, they will be providing a trail system of about 240 miles, that will be maintained by the fee system.

Now, which is the best alternative, Alternative 3, it provides the trails, plus a separate 4 wheel drive way for jeeps. Are there items I do not like, yes there are.  The major problem is that there will be only ONE trailhead south of Hwy 40, and that will be about 1 mile south on FR 88.  Big Scrub Campground is not designated as a Trailhead.  Will you be able to camp at Big Scrub and ride out of the campground, the answer is yes, however, you may see it closed to day use, if not you will at least have to pay camping fee and riding fee.  In addition, there will no longer be any riding along the power line.  I believe there should be another trailhead, probably where the southernmost trail crosses the pipeline.

The good news is on the northern end, there is a link to the 88 store for gas and food and a link north of 316 from phase I to the Elite Campground and the stores in that area to eat.  Until funding is provided, the system should be considered as 2 separate, with you not being able to safely cross hwy 40.  Perhaps when they widen 40 and the Black Bear Corridor pushes for a underpass for the bears, we can petition for use for the atv's during the days.

I have rode many of the trails, and I like the fact they are hooking in places to camp and to sightsee and swim.  If there are any complaints, make sure you get them in within the time period. I will be filing my objections.  To the people who want fast and one way trails, put in your objections, but personally, I believe this is a lost cause.

[Chuck_Norris]

Thanks Terry for your efforts 

[GrizzlyBear]

ttt

[Bounty1]

TTT







                                   
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[pinkfloyd]

Grizzley it sounds like sugar coating the truth. 240 miles of trails and 100 miles of those trails have speed limits on them.

With 240 miles of trails to groom what will the fee be, i bet it will be expensive?

If the trails system didn't have places to camp and get gas, uuuuuhmmm I wouldn't be able to do a 100 mile corridor to get to the other trail system..

Let's get real petition for ATV use from the black bear corridor, an environmentalist group that wants to proctect the black bears, do you really think they want atv's anywhere near the corridor?

[Bounty1]

This Friday is the last day to send in comments.




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[GrizzlyBear]

Here is my reply.  It would help if people sending in there comments would mention some of the same things I have.

The Ocala National Forest Association is a partner with the USFS and we are firm believers in the designated trail system. We are members of two online ATV forums with over 6000 members, most of which are Floridians and many are very vocal.  I have had the information posted about Phase II and have asked for comments and asked the members to send comments to this email as required.  My comments reflect both my feelings and those of people who have sent me comments.

First of all, all the reasonable comments agree that the best alternative is alternative III.  I agree.  However, I have problems with the trail system in general and certain items in particular.  The 2000 census shows a population of over 10,000 within a 10 mile radius of the Lake George Ranger Station.  These people have an average family income of 60% of mean average family income. This is considered poverty level income.  I do not believe that the trail system has considered these people at all when designing the trail system.  Other then the Hog Valley subdivision in the northwest corner of the forest, no direct access has been considered.  These people live in the forest to have access to the forest. Making the forest only accessible from trailheads is putting a tremendous hardship on these people.  It is this type of hardship that will cause failure of the trail system.  This problem could be handled by providing access from different subdivisions that adjoin forest property.  Many areas of the country, the Hatfield & McCoy trail system in West Virginia as an example, provide access to the trail system from many different areas allowing the areas to see economic prosperity from the trail system.  This should be considered, and areas like Scrambletown, Lynn, FR 8 & Hwy 42, and the area near the Ocala Forest RV Park on hwy 42 should be added for access points. This added access will, by providing economic opportunities to the residents will help assure the success of the trail system.

Second, the phase II design, while extremely well done, is lacking in the area south of Highway 40.  The Ocala National Forest sits in the middle of 10 million people, the majority of these people live south of Highway 40, and as such, the easiest way to use the trail system will be to use this portion. The only trailheads for this portion is designed to be just south of Highway 40 on FR 88(the northern part of this portion).  It is my understanding that the Big Scrub campground will no longer be available as a day use area. I believe at least 2 trailheads are needed, one just north of Big Scrub (where the trail crosses FR 88) and one where the trail crosses FR 97 (the pipeline).  I am also concerned with the OHV corral at Big Scrub campground,  Lake Delancy Campground and any other areas designated for overnight stays. Requiring riders to leave there atv's away from the campsite they are using could be inviting theft, perhaps it would be better to allow them to have access directly to the campsites designed for atv use.

Third, this should not be the end. We must make provision for yearly revisions. This does not mean we should do this when the Forest Service feels it is necessary.  A committee should be formed of residents, business owners, atv users, other interested parties and Forest Service personnel to recommend changes. This trail system will be the best in the State of Florida, but there is no reason it cannot be the best in the country.


Terry Thompson
President
Ocala National Forest Association
352-680-9717
352-680-9728 fax
352-895-3561 cell
www.onfa.org

[GrizzlyGator]

Lets just hope they play nice  . Great job GrizzlyBear 

[Chillinthemost]

Nice work Terry.  It still bothers me that they closed off the few "open areas" such as rodman pit, Eureka, etc. Those place allowed kids to ride around more freely while still being supervised.  Its only fun to ride behind dad in the dust for so long before it gets boring. We used to have several "destinations" now its just dusty whooped out loops.

[pinkfloyd]

Good job speaking grizzley too bad nothing you want will be done. Nice to sugar coat everything. I was at both meetings where were you. For some one who is suppose to be standing up for the two forums, you should have made a presence at the meetings.

There was about a dozen people that showed up at both meetings, that is pretty poor. The item that you neglected to talk about is the speed limits, not more than 15 mph on the trail?

I asked several questions to the rangers that were there. One was enforcement on 300 miles of trails, the answer, compliance.. You know the answer to that as well as I do. The second question was maintance of trails, didn't have an answer for that one. The third question was crossing state road 40, that seems to be where the black bear corridor will come into play.

BTW it is rumored the Black Bear Corridor's viewshed is the ONF, not part but whole. Interesting.

[Bounty1]

TODAY IS THE LAST DAY TO SEND IN COMMENTS. i WANT TO THANK EVERYONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO EMAIL THEM.




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[GrizzlyGator]

Good job speaking grizzley too bad nothing you want will be done. Nice to sugar coat everything. I was at both meetings where were you. For some one who is suppose to be standing up for the two forums, you should have made a presence at the meetings.

There was about a dozen people that showed up at both meetings, that is pretty poor. The item that you neglected to talk about is the speed limits, not more than 15 mph on the trail?

I asked several questions to the rangers that were there. One was enforcement on 300 miles of trails, the answer, compliance.. You know the answer to that as well as I do. The second question was maintance of trails, didn't have an answer for that one. The third question was crossing state road 40, that seems to be where the black bear corridor will come into play.

BTW it is rumored the Black Bear Corridor's viewshed is the ONF, not part but whole. Interesting.

What is this all about??? 

[grizzly04]

grizz, i notice your post says there will be places for atvers to swim along the trail. i was wondering were that would be? that would be really nice if we could stop and swim in a spring during a summer ride. thanks for all the hard work.